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Another user (NoMo) made an interesting statement about Amsoil in another thread that caused me to do additional investigation. Thanks to NoMo for putting me on this trail. Please follow me on this logic because it's important.
Amsoil makes four motor oils they claim are for use in Diesel engines. Three are fully synthetic (30 weight, 5W-30, and 15W-40) and one is a synthetic blend (15W-40). Let's forget about the 30 weight oil and the synthetic blend oil for this conversation, and we'll concentrate on the fully synthetic oils that some here are using.
I will post verbatim from some sections of the 2002 Duramax Diesel Supplement page 6-18 which is titled "What Kind of Engine Oil to Use". Next to a graphic of the API service doughnut is the following statement: "This donught-shaped logo (symbol) is used on most oil containers to help you select the correct oil. It means that the oil has been certified by the American Petroleum Institute. You should look for this on the oil container, and use only those oils that display the logo." There is also a NOTICE that says "If you use oils that don't have one of these designations either CH-4 or CG-4, you can cause engine damage which is not covered by your warranty." You can read it yourself in your own manual for verification.
These are clear statements! Use only the proper API Certified oil or your warranty won't cover any damage.
I called the American Petroleum Institute to find out if Amsoil fully synthetic diesel oil is API approved (I talked to Kathy in the Motor Oils Division). I was told that Amsoil has been issued API License Number 0995 but that DOES NOT cover any of their multi-grade fully synthetic diesel oils. NoMo pointed out that the Amsoil does not carry the API starburst or donught-shaped logo.
Amsoil fully synthetic diesel oils are not API approved and are not approved for the use in your Duramax. API told me that all oils submitted for certification are tested by both their labs and an independent lab before a license for certification is granted. They would not tell me if Amsoil has submitted their oils and they failed, or if they have never submitted their oils for testing.
Amsoil claims that their synthetic diesel oils are "Recommended for Applications Requiring the Following Specifications:" and list various API ratings, but that is not the same a being API Certified, and not approved for the Duramax. They are telling you that you should beleive them that it meets API specifications, but we really don't know if it does or not. We do know it's not Certified as such. The only API Certified engine oils listed under the Amsoil license are the XL-7500 and PCO (synthetic blend) motor oils.
I asked about various fully synthetic diesel oils that ARE API Certified. They told me of many, but the one that stood out was issued API License Number 0022... Mobil Delvac 1. Treat your engine right and use the right oil.
I do not work for any engine oil manufacturer, and I do not sell any kind of motor oil. I did spend about 15 years in management in the automotive manufacturing industry. I have known some of the best automotive engineers in the world and I know that most of what they do is for a reason.
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That's an eye opener! The Amsoil guys are gona freak over this .I'm real surprised.Excellent investigation ! :eek:
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It has been said over and over in many of these forums that much of Amsoil's fame is attributed to unsubstantiated claims.
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csimo,
I believe that you have just dealt the last straw on many of the members' backs here, including my own. Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil may very well be able to achieve API certification, but in not doing so and claiming to use it in applications that call for API ratings is, IMHO, irresponsible. I will be discontinuing my use of this product in my Duramax.
Thanks for the enlightening post. :(
Greg, any comments?
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Looks like i will be switching to Mobil Delvac. Thanks for the information.
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Wonder how Mobil Delvac I does when radiator coolant is introduced. I recall MP mentioning Amsoil lost it's properties.
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Just coming up on my 2nd change where I will be converting to synthetic. After reading the various threads the past few weeks, I decided to play it safe and go with Red Line 15W40 instead of the Amsoil 5W30. Anyone know where to buy this stuff cheap?
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I am about to order Amsoil series 300 heavy duty motor oil, But after reading this. I will be holding off a few days to find out the total scoop on all of this. If it turns out to be true, Mobil Delvac 1 here I come.
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WOW! That's some serious research csimo.
Was involved in a similar discussion almost 2 years ago and got several reasons (excuses) from various dealers why Amsoil isn't API certified. It'd be nice to hear something official from the Amsoil company itself.
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Looks like a clean sweep for Mobil!
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This is a puzzler as to why they have not gone for this certification. In the recent: From The President's Desk, A.J. Amatuzo is quoted as saying: "Before Amsoil, there was no API rated synthetic motor oil"
Food for thought anyhow...
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Mackin, thanx to Toddster ! LOL ! Dude, you leave me out of everything ! ;)
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Hey guys,
My personal experience with Amsoil was in 1986 when I was racing Jet skis. They claimed their 2 stroke oil was so good you could mix it at 100:1 instead of 40:1 and the motor would make all kinds of power and live forever etc. I started conservative at 40:1, just to see. The result was a seized piston. I wasn't sure it was the oil, could have been any number of things. I rebuilt the motor and having the mental capacity of a lima bean continued to run the Amsoil. Result, another seized piston. I started talking to some of the factory race mechanics and they told me they had all experienced the same thing. I know it is an unrelated application and 17 years ago but for me Amsoil is not an option for anything.
[ 01-14-2003: Message edited by: Trippin ]</p>
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I think I can tell you what it comes down to, Economics. Face it, in the grand scheme of things, Amsoil is a minute player in the oil business. It costs a GREAT deal of money to obtain the API rating. It can't be done accross the board, in other words, each product in the line would have to apply for the designation. The rating is very expensive and you'd have to sell a lot to make it pay.
In the compressor business, we represent a company that is a giant in the synthetic industry. Not only do they sell their on brand, they private label for a lot of the big boys. I have been using their synthetic motor oil for 15 years with phenomenal results. Is their oil API rated, heck no!!! Is it any good, None better. If you like Amsoil and have had good results with it, wait till after the warranty and load up. Would I use it, probably not. Or at least not while I can still buy the "other" stuff at wholesale.
Good Luck
Herb [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Here is more info. from API. Please note that these pages may take a long time to load.
The actual license between Amsoil and API is here:
http://www.api.org/cgi-bin/eolcs_li.cgi?k=767
All API Certified CH-4 diesel oils:
http://www.api.org/cgi-bin/eolcs_li.cgi?c=CH%2D4
All API Certified CI-4 diesel oils:
http://www.api.org/cgi-bin/eolcs_li.cgi?c=CI%2D4
You can also note that there are some very, very small compaines that have API Certified motor oils. Some much smaller than Amsoil I'm sure. Here is a list of some of the smaller companies that did bother to get certified (I am not recommending any of them, but just posting some random names that appear to be very small compainies).
CAM2 OIL PRODUCTS, New Britain, PA 18901
CENTURY LUBRICANTS COMPANY, Kansas City, KS 66111
COASTAL UNILUBE, INC, Memphis, TN 38103
CONKLIN COMPANY INC, Shakopee, MN 55379
DAVID WEBER OIL COMPANY, Carlstadt, NJ 07072
DENNIS OIL COMPANY, Springfield, MO 65802
HYDROTEX, Carrollton, TX 75006
LUBRICANTS USA, Plano, TX 75075
LUBRICATING SPECIALITIES COMPANY, Pico Rivera, CA 90660
MCCOLLISTER & COMPANY, Council Bluffs, IA 51503
PINNACLE OIL INC, Indianapolis, IN 46268
ROYAL PURPLE, LTD., Porter, TX 77365
SCHAEFFER MANUFACTURING COMPANY, St. Louis, MO 63104
SCOT LUBRICANTS OF PENNSYLVANIA, Allentown, PA 18109
TOP OIL PRODUCTS COMPANY, Burlingame, CA 94010
And many others. Why did they bother to get their products API Certified and Amsoil didn't?
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Hey Gang,
Over the last few years I've been running regular (Dino) oil meeting the CI spec. in my engines and change it at recommended intervals with excellent results.
The Reason: Myself and a few others were witnesses to a Royal Purple demo that consisted of a bearing running off of an electric motor that was measuring amp draw while submerged in different oils @different loads. To make a long story short this demo(sales pitch)showed the Royal Purple Synthetic products to be superior to all. After selling us on these oils I switched my truck over to them and encountered the following.
1. My engine started using large amounts of oil.
2. The RP 85w90 manual transmission oil was performing so bad that I could hardly shift gears.
3. After about 30000 miles a winding sound developed in the rear end. After draining this oil it was about the color of neverseize. (My fault for not changing out the oil earlier)Although the 1st 2 problems were corrected by changing oils, the last wasn't.
I have been hearing good reports about the Mobil Delvac I and have been tempted to try it, but I'm not sure I would be able to shake that haunting gut feeling. I hope I'm not missing out on a quality product because of my past experience.
Replies would be welcomed and appreciated.
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Correction - Just started with the NEW CI-4 spec.
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KompressorMan brought up one of the most common reasons/excuses from the previous discussion in which I was involved.
The "cost" argument doesn't make sense to me. Why would a company certify some products and not others- especially when the non-certified ones are arguably their most popular? Seems irresponsible to risk losing sales (because of a thread like this) by spending the money to certify a straight 30W and not the 15W-40 used by every light-duty diesel on the road.
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ndamico, the link you posted is to Amsoil's API Certification License #0995. It clearly shows that the ONLY diesel oil made by Amsoil that is API Certified is their PCO synthetic BLEND oil. None of their fully synthetic diesel oils are API Certified (and yes there are others that are).
I'm also sorry to hear that Amsoil tried to mislead you. If you look at the API links I posted you will see several synthetic diesel oils that are API Certified. As for the Amsoil statement that no
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I'm waiting for Greg's reply.
This is gonna hurt!