Please settle an argument!!!!!

Okay I am a fireman. We work in downtown Des Moines, Ia. At night we are allowed to pull our vehicles into the station to keep them warm and secure. We have the room to park 8 fullsized trucks (and have). The bay temp. is kept at about 67 degrees.

It's been getting cold here lately, tonights temp will be around 15 with slight windchill.

I have a co-worker who has a 7.3L power joke. Not a bad truck I'm just adverse to Fords (raised that way and don't know any better). He says I should pull my truck out onto the ramp in the morning and warm it up for 10 minutes before leaving for home. If not he says I should plug it in at night just like it were outside. I know I don't need to plug it in, but what about the warming? I say hello no, I just take it easy (like I always do) until I hit the freeway and she's warm.

Please weigh in on the matter, we are getting to close to all out war here in the fire station over this little matter!!!!! Kinda funny, but it's losing it's comical side quickly!

Thank you for all your comments, and they will be read by ALL concerned here at fire station 1 (H.Q.) in Des Moines.....:D

Well I'm no expert, but my take is it's always a good idea to start any vehicle and let it run for a couple minutes just to make sure the engine parts are well lubed, and a good rule of thumb is to let the engine get to operating temp. Now that said, If its 67 deg. than there is no reason to plug it in or warm up for no ten minutes. Like I said 1-2 min is long enough before taking off.
Just my thought. :cool:

As long as the diesel fuel you're using is properly blended for the temperatures you're seeing, you don't need to warm the truck before driving off.

I've driven a diesel pickup through 20 Montana winters. I usually drive off soon after starting and the engine. If it gets below +20 F or so at night, and if the truck sits outside, I usually use the block heater for a couple of hours prior (using a timer). I don't do this for fuel gelling issues, but just to make life easier for the batteries and starter, and to allow cab heat a little sooner. But, I've also started a diesel engine with an overnight low down to zero F without having been plugged in, but it's nicer after having used the block heater. :)

Jim

I like to let any (gas or diesel) run for a couple of minutes anyway...just to let things rolling and the oil "flowing" and the glow plugs turned off,

I do not "start and drop it into gear" summer or winter, maybe if it has already been run, not for the first start of the day

IIRC, someone once stated that idling the Dmax for 1 hr. used approx. one gal. of fuel. Using that thumbrule, warming up up for 10 min. every cold start would use a little over one gal. of fuel in a week ($3.40 a gal. here), assuming only one cold start a day.

With that said....I put my grill cover on from late fall to early spring (unless towing), plug in if below freezing (on timer), let engine warm for approx. 1 min., and take it easy on the accelerator until engine is warm....no problems.

Just my thoughts...

Jim M.

If it's been sitting inside overnight, I would drive away just like in summertime.

My practice has always been to start driving right away in summer, but very gently on the foot-feed til it warms up. The way I see it, the engine is going to suffer some wear during the first couple of minutes (cold and dry) whether its driving slow, or idling, so I might as well get some miles out of it.

On cold winter mornings (around here that means around +15 to +20f) plugged in or not, I usually leave it idle just long enough to scrape the ice from the window, and off I go.

On the other hand, if you've got a trailer behind, and your first 10 miles are up a steep grade, I would definitely let it warm up till the guage is at least halfway up to operating temp.

If I got oil pressure, I go...easy till the temp gauge start to move. That's usually the 3 miles from my house to the main road. By that time everything is to temp and operating the way it should ie the ally.

It was in the low 20`s when i came home this morning. I fired it up and drove easy like always.It takes a good 12 miles to get the engine oil to 190* even with the grill covers on. A waste of time and money to warm it up for 10 minutes.

SHED,here's the cool thing about your truck vs the Ford. Your truck has a fuel heater and an inlet air heater in addition to glow plugs, the 7.3 doesn't have all that, but its not his fault he just bought the wrong truck for really cold temperature operation, but he's doing the right thing with his truck, so are you. Ford produced a report on low temperature versus wear and in their R & D they concluded that the colder the temp the more wear occurs. The coefficient of expansion of the aluminum piston is about 6 times that of the steel block, so the colder the engine is on start up the more the block bore has shrunk and of course so has the piston, but when it fires the piston starts to expand at a rate 6 times faster than the steel cylinder its riding up and down in. You see the problem. As temperatures stabilize the clearances become normal like they were designed to be for operating clearance.
Everyone who said they take it easy while it is still cold is wise to do so, also its a proven fact the sooner you start to drive the more heat is build up in the engine, cooling system, and drive train therefore the warm up is actually faster with less wear than it would be if you just let it idle until it gets warm with no load.

Personally I never just start up and drop it in gear and go. Having adjusted valves back in the solid lifter days I noticed how long it took before the oil got the the rocker arms. On one of my first engine builds a long long time ago I actually saw a couple of rocker arm balls gauld up from lack of lubrication during the first start up. That was before I learned about pre-lubing the engine before the first start, like I said a long long time ago, but it taught me a good lesson on how long it actually takes for all parts of the engine to receive lubrication so I'm like a 30 second when hot and maybe 50 seconds when cold before I put it into gear and start ideling down the driveway. Works for me, I've never have been able to put more that 320, 000 miles on the same engine, so I can't say how much longer one would last if someone didn't wreck it or trade it off. I hope you can still be friends with this guy, wouldn't want him watching my back in an emergercy if you were enemies.

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Originally Posted by Shed

I have a co-worker who has a 7.3L power joke.... He says I should pull my truck out onto the ramp in the morning and warm it up for 10 minutes before leaving for home. If not he says I should plug it in at night just like it were outside...

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What do you want? He owns a (ford)...

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The bay temp. is kept at about 67 degrees.

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what exactly do you need to warm up? The engine is staying at 67 degrees, not the outside temp. By the time the engine sees the outside temp., the water temp guage should have already started moving.

In northern CA I have never plugged my truck in or warmed it up for more than a minute and it always sits outside. We see 30s-40s outside all the time in the winter. But.....he is a Ford guy.

In Idaho where I go to college we see -10 all the time at night. I plug my truck in because it sits outside. I let it run for a minute or two, and it runs fine. My truck has 154,000 and the engine has never been touched! I know lot of guys with the duramx that park in a garage and never plug their truck in, and they start it up, let it idle for a minute then drive off. GM diesels don't need to idle for 10 minutes, they handle the cold really well.

If it's 67 degrees in the bay, you don't need anything! Drive it like it's summer.

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What do you want? He owns a (ford)...

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I agree. You said it best shade, he just doesn't know any better.

My expeirence with diesels (VW) previus to the duramax is that it does not make any heat at Idle. if it was -20degrees C and i fired up the Jetta the temp would barley move in 1/2 hour at idle. As soon as you start driving it the temp guage will climb at a much higher rate. I agree with not starting it and driving away instantly. Most people seem to be concerened about the engine, but always forget about the tranny. the engine generates its own heat and takes care of itself. The tranny on the other hand generates its heat by sheering the fluid in the torque converter. At -20C that tranny fluid is pretty thick. Think of all the small orifices in the tranny that you are trying to force fluid through. a little warm up time is a good idea. 67F its a summer day. the water jackets in the block will help stabilize the temperature as you go outside. remember the engine is not air cooled. so shock cooling is not an issue.

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Originally Posted by mr. monte

I like to let any (gas or diesel) run for a couple of minutes anyway...just to let things rolling and the oil "flowing" and the glow plugs turned off,

I do not "start and drop it into gear" summer or winter, maybe if it has already been run, not for the first start of the day

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That's my way as well. My trucks are generally inside. I start them, idle minimally so as not to stink up the joint, back out, and let it run for a bit whenevr time allows.

Both Ford and GM have winter proving grounds. GM's is in Kapuskasing, Ontario, and I believe Ford has a long-term site in northern Manitoba. I have read articles (or propeganda, depending on your view) about the tests they subject the vehicles to. One is a cold start at -35 degrees, followed by the "drop it in gear and floor it" test.

That's isn't how I treat my machines, but there are many, many drivers who do basically start at 0 degrees or colder, drop it in gear and expect to merge with traffic. My lovely bride is one of them, so the van has 0-W 30 in it to counter the issue a little.

The issue of this thread is a non-issue, in my opinion.
My two cents.

All my trucks sit outside. In single digit to sub-zero weather, I try to get everything that will be used the next day plugged in overnight. A few times, we have started stranded trucks with no heat at -10F with no problems. Our previous 6.5s would never start under the same conditions.

In the summer, we idle for a minute or two and walk around the truck and trailer, during daily equipment check.

In the winter, we idle for ~5 minutes and then drive very slow and deliberately while the transmission loosens up.

Never a 'drop it in gear and go' - although they would probably tolerate it.

This will be my first winter up here in Ogden, Ut. Just moved from Ca. What's generally the temp cut off for deciding to plug your truck in? Where do you plug it in? Is there a cord ready to go that's attached to the engine block so I can just plug in an extension cord from the garage?

Thanks for the help.

Pete

EPA, There is a cord. Mine comes out between the grill and bumper on the right side under the headlight. It may be hidden back behind the bumper and have to be fished out but is easy to do. Just make sure you have a heavy ext. cord. Here in IA. we have cold snaps, I tend to plug mine in if I'm using it first thing in the morning, or if it's below 30 degrees. That is just my two cents, and there are many more people who know more about the specifics who can chime in. Good luck and stay warm! Shed