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What is the differences between Stanadyne and Diesel Service? Which one is better for the Duramax? I want to run one of them this winter to make sure I don't get ANY gelling. I know that the fuel stations blend the fuel for winter, but I just like the idea of adding a little cetane, lubing the pump and injectors and preventing any chance of gelling.
Thanks.
I don't have that answer but... does anyone know at what temp does diesel start to gel? I bought the truck last March and didn't have a concern but, it's getting pretty cold here in ND already.
Also, what do most do? Blend there fuel at the pumps 1/2 #1 - 1/2 #2 or just add the additives?
Wayne,
I currently use Stanadyne but I would like to know if there is a better product out there as well.
My concern is this...
I buy fuel is beautiful sunny southern California, where a cold day is 65, but I spend a tremendous amount of time up in Mammoth Lakes.
Mammoth Lakes gets downright cold. This weekend the lows will be in the teens and we should be seeing some snow.
Just be sure your product contains no alcohol and is not a water dispersant that tends to allow the water to pass through the fuel filter.
By my research, Stanadyne is as good as you can buy.
http://www.fppf.com/welcome_3.htm
Click on the product demonstrations...
JK,
Do you run the fuel power in your truck? I thought you did want the water to disperse so the fuel filter could remove it. Please enlighten oh Diesel Master. :D
If I remember, #2 diesel will start to jell at about 20 degrees. Some stations will add the chemicals to straight #2 to lower the jell point and some will blend #1 and #2. It's absolutely imperative that the blend be adjusted as the temps go lower. I prefer running the #1/#2 mix as that seems to work better, in my experience. BUT - understand that #1 does not have as good of lubricating abilities as #2 so you want to avoid running straight #1 if possible. During really cold weather (I'm from Iowa originally) I would add my own anti-jell to the already blended pump fuel.
A problem this time of year is that you may fill up and then use up the fuel over the course of 1 or 2 weeks or so. Because it could be significantly colder in 2 weeks (or you may travel into some colder weather), the blend that was adequate when you bought it may jell up during the latter part of that 2 weeks. Might be best to add some anti-jell after a week as a preventative.
And good luck getting some of these city stations to tell you IF the #2 is cut, let alone if it's with #1 or chemicals. Most times the guys on the late shift have no idea. If in doubt, assume the worst.
Tim B.
Actually, I run TOTAL Power as it does all. Fuel Power is a key ingredient in Total Power. The simple explanation is that the water is made harmless so that it can pass through the fuel system and be burned.
Got a case of total power from JK myself. Will last most for a LOOOONG time. 1 bottle per 240 gallons. I use 1 bottle per ~150 - ~175 gals. IIRC, 1 case has 12 bottles, and runs about $120 / case, give or take a few bucks. Purty good deal since it can treat almost 2700 gallons of fuel.
Your last post JK..... "It makes it so that water burns" WHATEVER MAN!!! [img]tongue.gif[/img] :D
I am new to diesels and it doesn't get " that " cold in MD.....well sometimes it might. But are the additives to help the fuel in the winter the same additives that GM recommends not using???
Wow, so if I use TOTAL Power in my tank I can fill up with water? Cool ! :confused:
Sorry, had to get my wiseass comment for the day in early. :D
John
>The simple explanation is that the water is made harmless so that it can pass through the fuel system and be burned.
Reason #1 GM says to use no additives.
It seems all the additive manufacturers handle this differently. This is the worst thing that you could do to the water. Stanadyne has additives in Performance Formula that coalesce the water(help it to form large droplets) so that the filter can remove it effectively. Thats the second function of the filter, to remove as much water as possible from the fuel. Thats why they went through the trouble of adding a water sensor in the bottom of it. Dispersing the water through the filter and into the pump and injectors is the last thing you want to do. You also don't want to leave the water in the filter too long if the light comes on because it can eventually soak through the paper. Although the light activation should be below the point where water meets the filter media, so unless you have an extreme amount of water coming into the system this shouldn't be a problem.
SoCalDieselNewbie,
The best advice I have gotten from people in the industry is to buy fuel(preferably from a truck stop) locally to where you are staying since it will be blended for conditions in that area. I had similiar concerns since I go snowmobiling in Maine where I have seen temps as low as -30.
Additives will only help reduce the pour point of the fuel, another concern is the plug point of the fuel. This is the point where the parafin waxes in the fuel actually plug the fuel filter media. Additives can't do much to lower this, but the fuel in the area should be blended to help prevent it. That shouldn't be too much of a concern since our trucks are equipped with fuel heaters in the filter housing to prevent this from occuring.
Spoolin it,
Thanks for the reply...
Here is the funny thing, the closet commercial diesel pumps are in the City of Mojave. As in the Mojave desert. As in Death Valley.
Would they, despite being in a warmer climate, have the blended winter diesel?
Anyway, I appreciate all the help. The reason why I really would like to fuel up locally is because diesel along Hwy 14 and Hwy 395 is outragiously priced compared to local diesel.
I have seen diesel along those Hwys at $1.93 per gallon.
Locally, I am paying $1.43 for diesel.
Socaldieselnewbie, there is a "GIANT" truck stop on the right hand side as you are going north on the 14. Their prices are reasonable and I have purchased fuel there on my way to Mammoth. I'm sure they will blend their fuel as it does get pretty darn cold in Mojave this time of year. Don't forget that it tends to snow there from time to time, and if there is snow in Mojave then Mammoth is awsome. Hope this helps.
LA DMAX
Hey Spoolin'it, I saw in your post that you ride. Shoot me an e-mail and let me know what part of CT you are from. Been a M******* all my life (till last winter) where I could ride anywhere right from my back yard ! CT SUCKS for snow, looks like some trips further North are in order this winter. Maybe we could hook up for a blast, I like to get to Old Forge at least once a season. Sorry off subject. :cool:
Well, everyone has their opinions, but I'd much rather have emulsified water than NOT emulsified water in my fuel system. The ALWAYS will be water in the system. That is a fact of life. By using their "hydrogen polar bonding" FPPF safely moves the water through the system. Free water can cause rust/corrosion, AND based on mu experiences can CAN travel right through a filter.
As for CFPP (cold filter plug point) additives can do a quite a bit to improve this. I wouldn't be caught on the road in winter without a tank of well treated fuel, and some additional additive on board.
I agree totally with Mr. Kennedy's comments. It is absolutely imperative that we use a fuel additive which facilitates water emulsion in the fuel. That last thing we want is for the fuel to dump free water; we want to keep the water in constant movement through the system in low level quantity. As you can see from the fuel analysis result I posted, the water content in PPM was actually higher AFTER the filter than it was right out of the truck stop fuel pump. This is due to our relatively small system, heating and cooling. Diesel fuel is hygroscopic, that is it will suck water out of the air and into itself constantly. If virgin, untreated diesel fuel is allowed to sit unagatated, water will eventually settle out. By using an emulsifying agent, we can prevent or minimize this fallout, enabling constant water throughput in the fuel (the 80 to 90 ppm water we see in the analysis) which causes absolutely no problems for our fuel system. CAT has in fact been working with very high levels of emulsified water as part of its clean diesel program! Not only did a 500ppm level of water cause no physical problems in the engine but actually enabled cleaner, more efficient burns. (followed by do NOT try this at home!)
In summary: emulsified water poses no operational probllems to our engines: on the contrary, by constantly moving it, eliminating it from our fuel tank, we minimize free water formation.
Free water IS our problem and can severely damage our fuel system. Our fuel filter is not capable of dealing with a large amount of free water and will not remove any emulsified water.
Additionally, high quality additives such as Mr. Kennedy is discussing, bring lubricity enhancers, injector cleaning, pour point depressant, and flock point depressant to the engine, all of which are needed, from my experience and in my professional opinion.
George Morrison, STLE CLS
[ 11-03-2002: Message edited by: george morrison ]</p>
>Free water IS our problem and can severely damage our fuel system. Our fuel filter is not capable of dealing with a large amount of free water and will not remove any emulsified water.
See my comments regarding this in the thread:fuel filter/fuel additive .......observation????
Also on a side note. If you happen to look at RACOR'S additives (HINT: The ones who make the OEM fuel filters/water seperators) they are all de-emulsifiers!
The question you have to ask is do you want the water going through your engine (by emulsifying it)?
or do you want it taken out by the filter, (de emulsified)? Which is why diesel engines have fuel filter/WATER SEPERATORS.
So we make a puddle of water in our tank. Then what???
Our plastic tanks will not be harmed, but steel tanks can rust. Bacteria can grow, and on and on...
To quote Spoolin'It since you obviously did not read his comment on the other post.
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"I understand your concerns of de-emulsifing the water. Yes the water will collect at the bottom of the tank while the vehicle is sitting. When the vehicle is moving, the fuel sloshing around in the tank should bring the water back into solution where it can be dealt with by the filter as designed. Waters natural tendency in the fuel is to drop to the bottom anyway. Besides its not like there's a gallon of water in every tank of fuel that has to be dealt with."
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Don't know how much clearer you can get. We have been running Stanadyne in our diesels since it came out on the market. Heck I was not even an employee back then. Never one have we had bacteria or fungi? And even if we did all we would need is to run a Biocide.
Again... Water through engine or water at the bottom of a tank?