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Thread: P400 Turbo Diesel 4x4 Dually

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    N.Delta, BC, Canada
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    Default P400 Turbo Diesel 4x4 Dually

    I may or may not be your typical guy, who was looking for a good economical diesel truck to do some light towing and summer camping with.

    I am 45 years old and have had my share of vehicles. I felt I had a reasonable amount of knowledge regarding the pro's/cons of Chev/Dodge/Ford... so I shopped the market for 3-4 months before making a decision.

    I bought my first Chevy diesel truck late last year. It was a 1993 extended cab 6.5 TD 4x4 Dually. I bought it with known oil pressure issues...


    She drove nice but needed another motor... I figured I would do some homework...ordered the TD Volumes I and II, and started reading.

    The motor was pulled and ended up being cracked in 6 places, so I bought a budget 599 rebuild for $2,200 off craigslist. It arrived with a chunk missing out of the block around the starter bolts... I claimed warranty and got my money back.


    Here is where I started my journey... I bought a "crack-free" block, certified by a machine shop near Dallas TX. Hot tanked, honed, and frost plugs installed... for $250. I paid $250 to get it to Washington State... it arrived and had 3 stress cracks in the main webs. I got $250 back but was out the freight.


    I bought 2 more blocks... they both had cracks !!! I lost money on one of them.


    The last block I purchased was OK's by my mechanic's machine shop and I committed a large sum of cash to build it. After the boring, decking, align-honing with a stud girdle, etc... I inspect it prior to assembly and saw a fatal crack in the second web!!! $1000 in machining instantly disappears into thin air... I had another $3000 committed to this in parts (rebuilding the heads, pistons, regrinding cam, crank, rods, etc...) Ouch!!

    My mechanic buddy is having this block repaired using inserts which are machined into the fractures of the block. I'll share photos after it has been done. Apparently they have been repairing cracked blocks for years... without issues. If it works, I have 2 more to fix.



    Long story short... I was ready to buy a brand new long block directly from Franklin Ohio for the tune of $6,090. I did this through a gentleman by the name of Rod Townsend and a company called WW Williams. Kennedy and Peninsular also offer this long block.

    The powerplant is the redesigned 6.5 Optimizer and carries the casting number P400. It was installed after I engineered an oil pan to fit my rig. This engine was designed for Hummers which now carry payloads up to 15,000 lbs. It includes a forged crank and cast iron girdle for added strength.


    In conclusion... I have spent a small fortune seeing this project through to completion... I do have a great truck, for 1/4 of what a new one costs.
    Oh... and my wife still loves me

    Last edited by JetBoater; 05-10-2008 at 09:31. Reason: typo

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Knoxville,Tennessee
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    2,639

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    Nice truck! And a very nice presentation of your project. Enjoy your toy.
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."
    -Patrick Henry


    A5150nut
    2006 K3500 D/A
    94 6.5 4x4 5spd Sold

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Odessa, Tx
    Posts
    10

    Default

    nice truck
    99 gmc 3500hd

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Newberg Oregon
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    So sorry you had to go through such a tortureous path to get a usable engine for your rig.

    So many folks including good mechanics can be fooled by the 6.5 into thinking its crack free.

    Many shops simply dont know where to look and or how to easily find the cracks.

    Buying a 6.5 off the internet is a very sketchy proposition at best and unless the seller knows a lot about them he/she can be selling a door stop and not realize it.

    As you have found out some folks are honest and some are not.

    The freight is always a killer though on stuff that heavy.

    A few years back I bought two 6.2 blocks off ebay and had them shipped.
    Both were crack free and in very good condition. (Lucky)

    Glad you got your ride all squared away and going.

    I love the mid 90's body style trucks.

    I own a 95 Dually crewcab with the 6.5 TD

    Have fun and enjoy the beast

    Best

    Robyn
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2005 Suburban (Papa Smurf)
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Surrey, BC
    Posts
    282

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    I had my truck in the same shop as your truck a couple months ago and JR told me of your woes. I was going to stop in and see the new engine but I forgot all about it. Hope all is well now. I'll keep my eye out for you locally. I live in Surrey and work in N Delta. Happy trucking.
    Brett
    2005 GMC Sierra SLT Dually Crew, 4x4, stock
    71,000 kms

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    N.Delta, BC, Canada
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    Default

    a5150nut, rodburner, thanks for the comments.

    Robyn... the knowledge and experience you bring to the diesel page is a wonderful thing! Your comments on a previous thread about the oil pan fabrication were appreciated! I saw your latest truck... its a sweet ride. i think of these trucks as Old School with attitude!

    I am new to diesels, but have wrenched since I could pick them up. After studying the issue of cracks.. I believe the older 6.5's run fine with them. At least all my motors ran fine.. but died of other causes.

    I was going to write a blurb on the whole business of buying a long block off the internet. I came across some very shady companies.. who claim NEW blocks, but charge for the core. I thought I would need a lawyers advise before pen'ing the names onto paper. People should be aware of companies selling Chinese blocks with names similar to optimizer... and other scammers ready to sell you something supposedly dyno-tested for 1 hour, when they probably don't even have a dyno. I could ramble on for an hour about this... it bugs me. I am very happy to have purchased the strongest 6.5 currently offered.

    Brett, I saw your rig in the shop too... I hope its rolling better with the new rear end, brakes, and bushing kits. PM me if you ever want to chat.

    Cheers to driving a diesel!

  7. #7
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    Feb 2008
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    A picture of me and someone else... you can probably figure out who I am.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    British Columbia
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    Nice Truck! I to just went through new engine blues.I bought a peninsular 18:1.They have good reputation.Just had reflashed computer installed yesterday. Hooked on to my fifth wheel today for maiden pull this weekend.Good luck!!!
    98 c/c l/b 4x4 dually 6.5td i/c,boost cntrl,boch h/f,4in straight ex,boost/pyro guages &h/f air

  9. #9
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    Have a great long weekend d.h.!
    I regret that I did not do the 18:1 which was a standing option I had turned down. It will definately add life to your power plant!
    Cheers!

  10. #10
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    Sep 2006
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    Brooker, FL
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    I also got the Penisnsular 18:1, hi-pop injectors and a new IP (and the Phazer gear drive). Fuel economy is up from 9.25 mpg to around 11 mpg, and there's POWER there under the bed (diesel pusher motorhome ). And that's not "truck bed", it's a queen-sized bed .
    '94 Barth 28' Breakaway M/H ("StaRV II") diesel pusher: Spartan chassis, aluminum birdcage construction. Peninsular/AMG 6.5L TD (230HP), 18:1, Phazer, non-wastgated turbo, hi-pop injectors, 4L80E (Sun Coast TC & rebuild, M-H Pan), Dana 80 (M-H Cover), Fluidampr, EGT, trans temp, boost gage. Honda EV-4010 gaso genset, furnace, roof air, stove, microwave/convection, 2-dr. 3-way reefer. KVH R5SL Satellite. Cruises 2, sleeps 4, carries 6, and parties 8 (parties 12 - tested).

    Stand-ins are an '02 Cadillac Escalade AWD 6.0L and an '06 Toyota Sienna Limited.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustyk View Post
    and there's POWER there under the bed (diesel pusher motorhome ). And that's not "truck bed", it's a queen-sized bed .
    But you have to make your bed, I can just hose mine out!
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."
    -Patrick Henry


    A5150nut
    2006 K3500 D/A
    94 6.5 4x4 5spd Sold

  12. #12
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    I just asked my supplier from WW Williams (Rod Townsend), what the compression ratio was in my P400. He advised it is 20.2:1

    I also asked for the recommended maximum boost... he replied 28 psi at 2000 rpm provides max torque.

    Is the 28 psi at sea level?

    I am running 12 lbs of boost MAX at full pedal. Do I dare run a larger turbo and increase to these levels?

    I am running the strongest commercial 6.5 available.... all comments welcomed.

    Note: I will be adding an intercooler in next month or so.... and will dial in the max boost at that time. It should be broken in by then.


  13. #13
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    Arrow

    28 PSI is a bit unbelievable, especially if it is a 20.2:1 engine. And, not knowing what turbo is in service, is well out of the efficiency range of most of them.

    28 PSIA is 13.3 PSIG at sea level. Perhaps that's what he meant?
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  14. #14
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    DmaxMaverick... I agree and have asked Rod for clarification.

    I guess I am questioning why he would he give me a number that I would need to subtract the 14.7 psi of atmospheric pressure (101 kPa)...

    I'll comment further after his reply. Thanks!

  15. #15
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    Rod just sent a reply and asked me to retract the 28 psi. An engineer at the Franklin Ohio plant will be providing more info after he looks into it.

  16. #16
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    Oh, great. Now it really gets confusing. You know those engineer types

    If you post the actual compression ratio and turbo you are using (as well as any other details you have), I'm sure we can give you a straight answer. The use/lack of a charge air cooler can play a large part, as well. Other than that, you'll have to run some trial and error testing (which you should do, anyway). Once you get some hard numbers, getting it dialed in is a matter of course. Fueling, temperature and pressure have to meet on common ground to get your efficiency target.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  17. #17
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    I am currently running a GM-4 turbo... I have a GM-8 which I will be sending to the local shop for a RE&RE at a cost of $700. This will be installed in June.

    I will be installing an intercooler in June, similar to the $400 unit profiled in TDP. It is a 1 foot by 2 foot core with a diameter of 2.5 inches.

    I tow a 4000 lb boat... with a 2000 lb camper in the summer.

    CR is 20.2:1

    Thanks for your input, it is appreciated.
    Mike

  18. #18
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    With that info, I wouldn't suggest any more boost than about 8-10 PSI before the intercooler and GM8, then a max of 12-14 PSI after. Any more (of either setup), and temps may become a problem. If you want more, you'll have to lower the C/R and improve your turbo. If you stay on the conservative side, you should have a very reliable powerplant with decent economy. It all depends on your goals and expectations.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBoater View Post
    I tow a 4000 lb boat... with a 2000 lb camper in the summer. CR is 20.2:1

    Thanks for your input, it is appreciated.
    Mike
    With those loads, you're likely better off with 20.2:1, and you'll not have to make any glow system changes to improve startability during the winter months.

    Jim

  20. #20
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    Based on info I collected before going with the Peninsular/AMG engine, the 20.2:1 setup should be limited to no more than 8 psi, and at that boost, a charge air cooler doesn't help much. My engine spools up to 15 psi effortlessly, but that's where my self-set, arbitrary yellow line is...

    I was doing the numbers, however, based on shoving my 16K motorhome around.
    Last edited by rustyk; 05-17-2008 at 20:47.
    '94 Barth 28' Breakaway M/H ("StaRV II") diesel pusher: Spartan chassis, aluminum birdcage construction. Peninsular/AMG 6.5L TD (230HP), 18:1, Phazer, non-wastgated turbo, hi-pop injectors, 4L80E (Sun Coast TC & rebuild, M-H Pan), Dana 80 (M-H Cover), Fluidampr, EGT, trans temp, boost gage. Honda EV-4010 gaso genset, furnace, roof air, stove, microwave/convection, 2-dr. 3-way reefer. KVH R5SL Satellite. Cruises 2, sleeps 4, carries 6, and parties 8 (parties 12 - tested).

    Stand-ins are an '02 Cadillac Escalade AWD 6.0L and an '06 Toyota Sienna Limited.

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