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Thread: Conversion Possibilities

  1. #1
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    Default Conversion Possibilities

    I know there are many conversion / engine swap possibilites for the 6.5td, including the splayed main, et al setup RJ has. What are the plusses and minuses of each (Duramax, Schoolcraft and Cummins)? I am thinking conversion and maintenance costs, reasonable and usable power possibilities and fuel consumption and reasonable power levels.

    Anyone have any thoughts?
    Jeffrey Todd
    _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _
    '96 6.5TD GMC Suburban 2500 4x4 - 300,000 miles, JK remote FSD, Dual Thermostats

  2. #2
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    It does depend some. What are your fabrication skills? Do you have a secondardy vehicle to drive during the conversion?

    The quickest and easiest is a new AMG drop in.
    99 K2500 GMC Ext Cab, 6.5TD, Heath ECM reflash, TDC Offset -1.80, Bumped Optic, FSD Isolator, Turbo Master, KD 3.5" Exhaust, 4.10s and 33x11.50, Intercooler is next.
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  3. #3
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    I am just brainstorming, and not planning on a swap at this time. Just curious to the possibilities. For arguments sake, assume adequate fab skills and plenty of time.
    Jeffrey Todd
    _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _
    '96 6.5TD GMC Suburban 2500 4x4 - 300,000 miles, JK remote FSD, Dual Thermostats

  4. #4
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    My take is that the indirect-injection (prechamber) engines are obsolete because the direct injection engines use less fuel-per-mile, and are easier on lube oil. But their cost includes an additional $8-12K surcharge merely for the engine's fuel system , tuff to recover.

    The D-Max is a larger-output powerplant, requiring a larger-capacity transmixer, as a unit.

    The Cummins is available in either species (direct/indirect) .

    The 6.5 has substantial longevity issues in both block and head areas. The Cummins is superior here, but also occassionaly lose heads if not operated within some range of design limits.

    Cummins requires major body lift, 6.5 doesn't....don't know about DMax.
    tom m
    '95 6.5td 4L80E 3500/srw p/u

  5. #5
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    The Optimizer 6500, as AMG now calls the 6.5L diesel, is essentially a new engine when compared to what it was in the 90's, brought about primarily by changes in head/block metallurgical composition and structural design, manufacturing processes and final assembly. And, there are yet more design changes in the offing that could totally revolutionize thinking about what the 6.5 is now and what it could be.

    The high-end turbocharged AMG 6500 is currently rated for 205 hp & 440 lb-ft of torque, and is advertised as having a 250,000 mile durability rating, capable of meeting the 2007 EPA 50-state regs and has the lowest dollar per hp of any commercially produced diesel engine suitable for use in pickup trucks and SUV's.

    If anyone is interested, I could work something up that discusses the original question posed in this thread. I've seen several GM/Cummins conversions, ridden in a couple, and I know a good bit about Duramax conversions....

    Jim






  6. #6
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    The reason I originally brought it up are a couple of reasons. On this board and others various swaps are discussed and undertaken, and I am curious why one swap is chosen over another. Both the D-max and Cummins require significant fab and donor electronics, so neither are easy, but the power and efficencies seem to be significantly higher than the best possible from a 6.5.
    If anyone is interested, I could work something up that discusses the original question posed in this thread. I've seen several GM/Cummins conversions, ridden in a couple, and I know a good bit about Duramax conversions
    If you can easily give the cliff-notes version, that would be fine for me.

    Regarding the body lift, would a redesigned hood accomodate a cummins or are there other engine to body interference issues requiring the lift?

    Thanks for the input.
    Jeffrey Todd
    _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _
    '96 6.5TD GMC Suburban 2500 4x4 - 300,000 miles, JK remote FSD, Dual Thermostats

  7. #7
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    >>would a redesigned hood accomodate a cummins

    Member (ex?) "DogDiesel" posted a blow-by-blow of his Cummins-into-Chevy conversion about two years ago somewhere on this site (probably 'members' , or '6.5L' ...?) ... and it was the sort of thing only someone with technical competence and decent facilities would be attracted to. ["No"].
    tom m
    '95 6.5td 4L80E 3500/srw p/u

  8. #8
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    There is an ongoing thread regarding a Cummins 4BT conversion on a 93 at the Place. I would love this conversion; 300 HP possible with good gas mileage. Alas, I have an all electronic 99 which would make this conversion most difficult. I can dream, can't I?
    2001 Excursion 2WD V10 formerly owned 99 K2500 6.5TD Sub 4.10 8600 GVWR,Spearco Intercooler, JK Isspro guages,Hayden SD fan clutch, Racor 645 30 mic, clean cat, JK FSD cooler,JK Boost Ctrl,JK HL relay, Optimas, rblt trany & transfer case, B&M Tranny cooler w/fan,200k miles, Prodigy, 05 Jayco Eagle 308 FBS.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by More Power
    ...If anyone is interested, I could work something up that discusses the original question posed in this thread. I've seen several GM/Cummins conversions, ridden in a couple, and I know a good bit about Duramax conversions....
    I wouldn't mind reading about a Optimizer 6.5 conversion to an older pickup, like say a '55 or '66 Chev. Maybe do an article on all of them (engines I mean), stuff like that is always good reading and motivation for creativity. My $.02 worth.
    JP
    Jeff

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  10. #10
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    Thanks for your input HH... I actually have quite a bit of brand new info about the AMG 6500 that could change the game... Some of the info hasn't been officially released yet....

    As many of you know, this web site and a good share of the content we've produced through the years have been directed toward improving the ownership experience for owners of the 6.5L diesel - we've been doing it for more than 10 years now. No other web site was formed around these engines and their owners. The thought of removing a 6.5 to install something else has always given me pause - just seems wrong.

    I think the Cummins is a fine engine, but I've yet to see a quality GM/Cummins conversion that I thought added value ("both" to the truck's usability/durability "and" for resale) beyond what it might have been with a "quality" 6.5. Used 5-10 year old Dodge/Cummins trucks are really cheap now. The motivation for converting a GM 6.5 truck to use a Cummins escapes me. If you want a Cummins, buying a Dodge would seem a no-brainer....

    Converting a 6.5 powered truck to use a Duramax is also a less than ideal solution for most people. It's complicated, but perhaps no more so than a common-rail Cummins conversion, and the Duramax fits waaayyy easier than a looonnnggg-ass 6-cyl Cummins. In fact, the Duramax "package footprint" was actually designed for the engine compartment of the GMT-400 body style trucks. The truck I converted was originally equipped with a 5.7L gas. I lost no sleep pulling it to install a GM diesel engine (though a Duramax).

    Yes, a P7100 equipped Cummins is simpler (mechanically fuel injected), but for anyone who is hell-bent on converting, a Duramax conversion is far superior in my opinion - for a whole range of reasons (the biggest one being that it's still a GM engine).

    A 4-cyl Cummins...... I couldahada V-8...

    JMHO... Yours may vary....

    Jim

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by More Power
    Thanks for your input HH... I actually have quite a bit of brand new info about the AMG 6500 that could change the game... Some of the info hasn't been officially released yet....

    As many of you know, this web site and a good share of the content we've produced through the years have been directed toward improving the ownership experience for owners of the 6.5L diesel - we've been doing it for more than 10 years now. No other web site was formed around these engines and their owners. The thought of removing a 6.5 to install something else has always given me pause - just seems wrong.

    I think the Cummins is a fine engine, but I've yet to see a quality GM/Cummins conversion that I thought added value ("both" to the truck's usability/durability "and" for resale) beyond what it might have been with a "quality" 6.5. Used 5-10 year old Dodge/Cummins trucks are really cheap now. The motivation for converting a GM 6.5 truck to use a Cummins escapes me. If you want a Cummins, buying a Dodge would seem a no-brainer....

    Converting a 6.5 powered truck to use a Duramax is also a less than ideal solution for most people. It's complicated, but perhaps no more so than a common-rail Cummins conversion, and the Duramax fits waaayyy easier than a looonnnggg-ass 6-cyl Cummins. In fact, the Duramax "package footprint" was actually designed for the engine compartment of the GMT-400 body style trucks. The truck I converted was originally equipped with a 5.7L gas. I lost no sleep pulling it to install a GM diesel engine (though a Duramax).

    Yes, a P7100 equipped Cummins is simpler (mechanically fuel injected), but for anyone who is hell-bent on converting, a Duramax conversion is far superior in my opinion - for a whole range of reasons (the biggest one being that it's still a GM engine).

    A 4-cyl Cummins...... I couldahada V-8...

    JMHO... Yours may vary....

    Jim
    I guess when you own the place you can get away using 'ass' in your posts.

    on edit: Hey I just saw that my 'ass' went through too. How cool!

    Tim
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    I like it that bad language doesn't get used here much...

    Let's keep it that way.

  13. #13
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    Language? Six years in the USN will expand one's vocab. Of course the calumnies, agitprop and jeremiads used on truck web sites also allow one to expand his interpretation of the human language....

    I would enjoy doing another conversion project.... A 2003 or newer 2500 Dodge converted using a Duramax/Allison and 4WD front IFS... (I would likely have to run it through the armor upfitting line at AMG before driving it... )

    MP

  14. #14
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    I understand. Football locker rooms and factory floors are good places to expand vocabulary as well. I just prefer not to use it and like it that this site doesn't have much of that.

  15. #15
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    Good Day!

    I can't WAIT for more info about this Optimizer 6500.

    I'm a prude - I agree with RJ. That's why I spend my time here instead of some other Place.

    "Six years in the USN will expand one's vocab." So can working on cars, at least when it's me. My kids have heard things come out of my mouth that I'm ashamed of... I spent a couple years teaching myself those words, & the rest of my life trying to quit.

    Blessings!
    82 6.2NA K15 4X4 pickup, 4spd man w/ OD, 335K+ "In Rust We Trust" (parked)
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    93 6.5TD 3500 4X4 1T crew cab LB pickup, 230k miles

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    I dont smoke, do drugs, chase women, gamble (Much) or drink to excess. I get to have ONE vice, and I choose language.

    I have been told I can strip paint when agitated. Grandpa taught me to curse in german and russian. Russian is a great language in which to curse. You can bruise innocent bystanders with it.

    Of course, There are times it helps to keep a civil tounge in your head.

    Tim
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  17. #17
    16gaSxS is offline Moderator, Have Shotgun & dogs will travel
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    For the most part I agree with most of what Jim said about conversions. I don't see the reason for going to 5.9L Cummins when a good engine can be had in a drop in situation with say 6.5T. I have a 1971 Ford Bronco with a V-8 302 in it. The darn thing loves it's gas. Now I've run across a guy who dropped a 3.9L Cummins in an EB (early Bronco) and he has all the power he needs and get 28 mpg's mixed driving. With the 32 gallons of tanks I have on mine that would give me about a 900 mile range more than double what I have now. I think a 6.5TD would be a tight fit in the old EB but I think a 3.9 would tuck in very nice from the photo's I have seen. In fact I have located a 3.9L enionge and 5 speed OD tranny 3 hours away. I'm thinking real hard about it.
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  18. #18
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    Marty.... "most of what Jim said...." I'm hurt

    Actually, the following quote, found on the site's home page, is TDP's mission statement:

    The Diesel Page is a membership based web magazine and enthusiast group, which has focused on the General Motors light-truck 6.2L, 6.5L and the Duramax 6600 diesel engines since 1996.
    We'll help you maintain and repair your 6.2, 6.5 or Duramax diesel engine, find solutions for diesel fuel injection problems, increase performance, locate the best and least expensive parts sources, repair and upgrade the Chevrolet and GMC light-duty trucks, and we'll help improve your satisfaction in owning a General Motors 6.2L - 6.5L - 6.6L diesel powered light-truck.
    Pulling a 6.5 from a GM vehicle to install a non GM diesel engine doesn't fit the mission.....

    Jim

  19. #19
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by More Power
    Pulling a 6.5 from a GM vehicle to install a non GM diesel engine doesn't fit the mission.....
    Hear! Hear!

  20. #20
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    . . .repair and upgrade the Chevrolet and GMC light-duty trucks
    Some might interpret a swap as an upgrade.

    Between the D-max and a Cummins, what are the realistic, usable power capabilites? Not for racing, but pulling loads easily and efficiently. I have seen 800hp injectors for the Cummins, but that does not mean it should be done. If the choice for a swap is a crate d-max and a crate 6BT, why (other than GM product) would someone choose one over the other? I have seen that some maintenance parts for the Cummins are quite expensive, but injectors seem to be an issue with the d-max. I am not preparing to do any swap of any time right now, just curious.

    Incedently, it was asked if someone wanted a cummins, why not buy a Dodge. I like my Suburban, Dodge does not make one.
    Jeffrey Todd
    _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _
    '96 6.5TD GMC Suburban 2500 4x4 - 300,000 miles, JK remote FSD, Dual Thermostats

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