I'll stay out of the brand thing, but if you ask any reputable engine builder that does not sell oil as part of there bus. (hence no bias), they will all recommend a blend as apposed to straight syn. Samples and stuff are great on paper, but look at the actual parts in a vast array of different applications and intervals to get a better pic of things. I've been done with straight syn. for years now with much better results...T
And for everyone you find that says that I can find you one that will say use synthetic. Way do you think some of the high cars come with a factory fill of synthetic.I'll stay out of the brand thing, but if you ask any reputable engine builder that does not sell oil as part of there bus. (hence no bias), they will all recommend a blend as apposed to straight syn. Samples and stuff are great on paper, but look at the actual parts in a vast array of different applications and intervals to get a better pic of things. I've been done with straight syn. for years now with much better results...T
greg
Jomar, no I'm not. South Texas Pollock is my ole CB handle, not my name.
Greg brings up a good point. Why do the high end cars come with synthetic on the factory fill?
If you've ever cooked the oil (be careful) and see whats left at the end or seen pictures of someone who did it pretty much tells the story. The old base crude winds up a black gooey mess, not so the synthetic. If you think about the oil being sprayed onto the underside of the pistons on our engines to cool down the pistons and with some guys running from 1400 to 1700 degrees exhaust temps on short spurts of major dyno runs, you can just imagine what happens when that oil hits the piston thats starting to approach melt down temperature. I would think the ones using conventional oils whould have a build up of carbon under there which will just stay hot and become an insulating layer to keep the oil cooling from doing its job and eventually....a hole right in the center of the piston.
For that reason alone I will always use a synthetic if the pistons are oil cooled like the duramax is.
I know I don't have a dog in this fight but FYI...Cat and Detroit both come factory filled W/ Mobil Delvac.....NON-synthetic.
At 12 gallons of oil capacity on a 3406E Caterpillar and a similar capacity on an N14 or Series 60, it might get a little pricey to fill each and every engine with synthetic.
Administrator
We can't use heavy duty application engines for this argument. Those biguns' don't see the temps, RPM's, and bearing loads we put onto these smaller engines. I will say, though, it wasn't unusual to see the old Cummins small cam 350's go down at around 350K with Delo 400, while the same engines went to 500K and beyond with Amsoil. The early big cams were about the same, but were new then. Saw it for myself with a base of about 50 trucks. That was back in the 70s/80s, so it may not even apply these days. Now, it is unusual for an engine (HD) to need any major work with less than 500K on them.Originally posted by madmatt:
I know I don't have a dog in this fight but FYI...Cat and Detroit both come factory filled W/ Mobil Delvac.....NON-synthetic.
They might not come from the factory filled with synthetic but I have plenty of class 8 customers using it. With fuel at $2.50 a gallon if a truck can gain just .5 mpg thats a big saving, and yes that is the norm and I have a few that switched everything over and gain .9 mpg. Either way that gain pasys for the oil plus better protection.I know I don't have a dog in this fight but FYI...Cat and Detroit both come factory filled W/ Mobil Delvac.....NON-synthetic.
Greg
I wasn't participating in any argument, I won't.
Just saw this....
and decided to add to it. Yes I know a lot of class 8 who run it w/o problem as well as well as those who run non-syn w/o problems. Outside contamination is the leading cause of heavy-duty diesel engine parts failure and would exsist in either types of oil if they were stored or handled in the same manner or care was not taken to prevent contamination during repairs. Also the E model Cat truck engines only hold 40qts(10gal)Way do you think some of the high cars come with a factory fill of synthetic.
[ 11-24-2005, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: madmatt ]
Well, I finally made an executive decision. I went to Wallmart yesterday and bought tree jugs of Rotella T 5w-40 synthetic. Best for the money I figure. Can't wait for my next oil change to see how my truck likes it. I still have about 1500 miles to go on the old oil. I appreciate all the opinions out there...
Jim-
I think we can use the big trucks, too. We have several over 700,000 miles with no major problems and they have used Delvac non-syn for ever oil change. Some are just now starting to use a gallon of oil every 7500 to 10,000 miles when we change them. I do, however, think we will start having problems soon out of these engines. My company has always used Mobil Delvac non-syn, we do use synthetic gear oil to preserve the warranty that comes with the rearends and tranny.
It is an undeniable fact that a top quality synthetic oil such as Delvac 1 is superior in just about every way to standard oil. It's not marketing hype with regards to a product like Devlac 1 or a Redline based product.
Will it make a difference in your truck? Is it worth it? Do you need it?
All of those qustions are really based upon the individual and their truck. If you trade your trucks every 2-3 years then it probably a waste of money for you.
I keep my trucks a long time and put a lot of miles on them. Considering that I am maintaining a $40-50,000 truck I dont see the extra money for synthetic oil to be a problem. In fact considering what it will cost to rebuild a Duramax it down right cheap if it extends the engine for a few 10,000's of miles.
Random thoughts..
Mark
Mark, I agree with everything you say. Deisel Crat would you or your expert try and explain why you think blow by is the fault of synthetic oil? I guess you could postulate that using conventional oil would help carbon build up in the ring lands and help the rings expand toward the cylinder makeing it seal better.
You have to be about the only one that thinks this way. This is how myths get started. The facts are synthetics keep things cleaner this redusing carbon build up and thus redusing blow by. I have had many customers that made the switch and reduced oil consumption a lot or it quit using oil all together. I have seen first hand a 6.5TD that had 160K on it when it blew, it had been using synthetic for at least the last 100K miles of its life. The internals were clean with no carbon deposits and all rings were intact and free. Your arguement just will not hold up.I'm with you Madmatt. I got no dog in this fight either but me thinks synthetic is a waste of money especially for a Diesel. I've seen the actual pistons from tests on synthetics and seen that most synthetic formulas cause other issues that people are not paying attention too. I.e. Ring blowby for one.
Greg
Administrator
To have an opinion is just absurd! How dare you! [img]smile.gif[/img]
Not all opinions are pungent. Around here, the majority of the good advice isn't more than an opinion, informed or not.
The validity of an opinion only depends on which camp you are in. A lot of money is made on snake oil. The definition of snake oil relies on an opinion, as well.
IMO, if synthetic lubes were the same price as mineral oils, the dino-only companies would be out of business quick. Many tech issues can, and will, be rationalized by $$.
Merry Christmas to all. (I guess that too is an opinion, anymore)
Enthusiast
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diesel Crat:
[QB] That's pretty close. It's more like extended use of synthetics causes cylinder glazing, which allows the blow by. The blow by will show up just below the piston ring lands once the cylinders become glazed.
That sounds like pretty devastating news to the syn world. Do you have any documented studies that you could point to on the internet somewhere?
Mike<br />\'99 K2500LT Sub 6.5TD,4:10 grs,8600#gvwr,Praise Dyno brakes,Amsoil Air Fltr,Fumoto Drn Valve,JK\'s Quick Heats,Home Made FSD Clr,LubeSpec oil clr lines, Amsoil bypass,hi idle switch,New Eng 6/02 due to oil clr line failure, Gear Vendor installed
And that is why all those dino oil companys are also spending millions on research to develop a syn oil. You tell me they dont think it's worth the investment. Guess the dino oil theory falls on its face.
. JD So there you have it my 12 cents worth. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I recall a respected member here who also operates a lube lab having commented that Mobil Delvac 1300S as being one of the finest dino oil around. I started using it as its avail @ wallys and affordable. Additionally, its certified CI-4 PLUS which the Mobil Truck/Suv isn't. I've heard that the old Delvac Mobil 1 that was replaced by Truck/Suv was also certified as CI-4 PLUS ~ I noticed that the 2 wally stores in our area are out of stock ~ something going on?
Posting Permissions
