Safe towing weight limit

[gary_lucas]

We're about to buy a 5th wheel.

I'm adding up the numbers and it's looking right on the edge of what is doable with my 2500hd.

Payload on the door sticker is 2500lbs (2495 or something but close enough).

The dry hitch weight of the 5th wheel were looking at is 1505.

That leaves about 1000lbs leftover, with me, my wife and fuel and assorted gak we're probably right on the number.

Once we get setup I'll have to weigh it.

What's the general feeling amongst the group, would I be pushing my luck? Should I get an extra leaf spring / super spring?

I know we'll be nowhere near the axle / tire limits.

My gut feeling is it's probably fine and if I notice any sag I'll get a spring installed... I'm not expecting any problems as if we're over it'll be by about 50lbs... And probably not even that.

[a5150nut]

Air bags for the back axel. If you can the on board compressor and controls are nice. Whats the length of you 5er?

[gary_lucas]

Probably going to be just a touch over 31 feet.

We're looking at two, the other one is a little shorter, 27 1/2 feet. A little lighter too.

Air bags for the back axel. If you can the on board compressor and controls are nice. Whats the length of you 5er?

[DmaxMaverick]

Probably not much to worry about. Airbags help a lot with stability, but won't increase the load capacity. Unless those RV's are VERY heavy (3 axle toy hauler, loaded to the gills), don't sweat it. The large one you're looking at is smaller than the smallest I've had. Legal weight, or close enough to it.

[gary_lucas]

That's kind of what I figured.

GCWR will be nowhere near max (75% of the rating) and if we're over payload it'll be by a hundred lb's at the most.

I wasn't so much concerned as curious.

If it does sag you suggest airbags over super springs or an extra leaf in the suspension?

Thanks much

G

Probably not much to worry about. Airbags help a lot with stability, but won't increase the load capacity. Unless those RV's are VERY heavy (3 axle toy hauler, loaded to the gills), don't sweat it. The large one you're looking at is smaller than the smallest I've had. Legal weight, or close enough to it.

[DmaxMaverick]

I recommend airbags. There are other less expensive options, but they aren't adjustable (as easily), and certainly not adjustable on-the-fly. I've used several solutions over the years, and the airbags are head and shoulders above the rest. There are also other options with them, such as remote pressure control (wired or wireless). As with anything, more money gets you more features, most of them are worth it. I have the Airlift bags and wired electronic controller. There wasn't a wireless system available when I did mine, or I would have paid more to get it. Installation wasn't difficult, but it would have been about 1/2 the time/effort. I've also installed this system into several friends' rigs. No complaints. I'm not a salesman, nor am I related in any way with those who sell or make them. Just a satisfied customer.

[a5150nut]

IIRC, several years ago there were a couple members here that went with the air bags and removed the heavy leaf spring to get a better ride empty.

[DmaxMaverick]

IIRC, several years ago there were a couple members here that went with the air bags and removed the heavy leaf spring to get a better ride empty.

You could do this, but under normal conditions, it does nothing (other than lower the height by the thickness of the spring). The default "low" pressure is 5 PSI, which keeps it off the overloads, anyway. The default pressure is necessary for long-term airbag health (and Airlift extends the airbag warranty to lifetime with the electronic systems because of this, as the control will maintain a minimum of 5 PSI). At 5 PSI, the overloads are rarely ever in effect, and only contact on rough surfaces (like RR tracks, I can hear them, as my spring insulators are LONG gone). Good shocks (like Bilstein) help in this regard better than anything else. Airbags aren't perfect. They are only one effective answer to a pre-existing condition.

An added bonus of the onboard compressor and control, is a compressed air source for emergency situations. I've used it to air trailer tires (of course, the spare will be low or flat), motorcycle tires, and adjust the truck tire pressure after leaving the dunes. I install the system with manual air fittings at the rear (the license plate bolt holes work well for this), and have 50' of coiled 1/4" air hose with locking air chucks at both ends. Run the airbag pressure up to max, connect the hose and air away. It's slow, compared to a full size compressor, but it works. Of course, there are better solutions (such as a larger compressor and tank), but it just works.

[gary_lucas]

good to know, I'll see how the truck looks after we get the 5th wheel... If it's flaky I'll get airbags

G

I recommend airbags. There are other less expensive options, but they aren't adjustable (as easily), and certainly not adjustable on-the-fly. I've used several solutions over the years, and the airbags are head and shoulders above the rest. There are also other options with them, such as remote pressure control (wired or wireless). As with anything, more money gets you more features, most of them are worth it. I have the Airlift bags and wired electronic controller. There wasn't a wireless system available when I did mine, or I would have paid more to get it. Installation wasn't difficult, but it would have been about 1/2 the time/effort. I've also installed this system into several friends' rigs. No complaints. I'm not a salesman, nor am I related in any way with those who sell or make them. Just a satisfied customer.

[gimpyhauler]

Would a more distributed loading job help? Perhaps to much in front of the axles?

I'll admit I've never been near the limit but I have a 30/38' twin axle flatbed gooseneck trailer and when loaded the heaviest I've loaded (no idea of actual wt) with vehicles and construction tools & "stuff," my truck seemed to be fairly level.

[gary_lucas]

Ok, so bought the new 5th wheel today.

Haven't taken possession, that'll probably be in the next 2 weeks.

Couple of things. Hit the scale and I have hard numbers now.

Truck weights:
front axle 4598
rear axle 3674

GVWR 9200
Total Weight 8272

Pin weight 1500


Total with pin 9772

So I'm actually over by approximately 500lbs. That makes me nervous.

Now some of that weight will go into the trailer, probably about 150 lbs of it. I know to get airbags if I have level issues.

Based on the feedback so far I'm assuming I'm fine assuming good tires and safe driving.

This is all on the GMC 2500hd diesel 2004.5

G

[Mark Rinker]

Ok, so bought the new 5th wheel today.

Haven't taken possession, that'll probably be in the next 2 weeks.

Couple of things. Hit the scale and I have hard numbers now.

Truck weights:
front axle 4598
rear axle 3674

GVWR 9200
Total Weight 8272

Pin weight 1500


Total with pin 9772

So I'm actually over by approximately 500lbs. That makes me nervous.

Now some of that weight will go into the trailer, probably about 150 lbs of it. I know to get airbags if I have level issues.

Based on the feedback so far I'm assuming I'm fine assuming good tires and safe driving.

This is all on the GMC 2500hd diesel 2004.5

G

My advice? Trade up to a 2006 K3500 dually.

[gary_lucas]

Seriously? That sounds like serious overkill.

I'm nowhere near any of my other capacities.

GCVW is about 75%.
Axle weights are about 75%

Previous owner put 265's that are rated for 3400lbs (each) on it as well, so their probably more like 70% of their rating.

Kind of makes me laugh too, because the 5th wheel we picked up is '1/2 ton towable' I can't imagine how those numbers work out... I guess if there's no one and nothing in the truck it works...

My advice? Trade up to a 2006 K3500 dually.

[AKMark]

I've pulled 12K from the Class V bumper receiver and never thought the truck couldn't do it.

Wish I had a gooseneck, but maybe someday....

[Mark Rinker]

Ok, so bought the new 5th wheel today....>>>

So I'm actually over by approximately 500lbs. That makes me nervous.

<<<

G

The author of this thread said he was 'nervous'...so my response was "Get more truck." i.e. create more margin of safety.

Personally I wouldn't be nervous with 10-12K# on a gooseneck with a 2500 series in good mechanical shape.

[gary_lucas]

Thanks for all the input, you've got a point regarding "Get more truck".

I'm picking up the 5th in 2 weeks, first trip will be up to hope on the long weekend. Should be fun. If I'm not riding level I'll get airbags installed quickly. I may even get them done when getting the hitch installed.

The funny part is I just put a 50 gallon tank in the bed of the truck... Guess what that and fuel weighs about 500lbs... My own damn fault. On the upside I've now saved enough in fuel costs to pay for the mods... That only took 2 months so I'm thinking that's pretty awesome.

Once i get my campsite and have somewhere i can do some actual work I may try to install super springs.

Also, if I were to go from 16" tires to 17 or 18 would i be looking for problems?

Thanks again, I'll get pictures of the truck and 5th up when I get back.

G

PS: a 3500 dually was on the menu when I was seriously considering a bigger truck camper... Wife kinda killed that. I'm still amazed she let me trade in our current camper for the 5th.

[Yukon6.2]

Hi Gary
Up sizing your tires will just cost you more money.
Unless you install bigger brakes there is no real reason for 17's or 18's.
You can buy the best michelin or toyo's in 16's for less than crappy 17 or 18's.
What size are the tires on your new trailer? Can you get 16's on it?
Then you could use your truck tires on it,and buy some good new ones for the truck.Sell the chinese tires that will come on your trailer while they are new and you should be set with good rubber for a good price.
My .02,which in Canada is now .00
Thomas

[gary_lucas]

That's all sounds good, the tires on the trailer are 15's,

So, not sure if I can get the 16's on the trailer, the 16's I've got are 265's, I'm assuming they'll be too big. But I'll check it out

Is it even possible to get bigger brakes on bigger wheels?

Gary

Hi Gary
Up sizing your tires will just cost you more money.
Unless you install bigger brakes there is no real reason for 17's or 18's.
You can buy the best michelin or toyo's in 16's for less than crappy 17 or 18's.
What size are the tires on your new trailer? Can you get 16's on it?
Then you could use your truck tires on it,and buy some good new ones for the truck.Sell the chinese tires that will come on your trailer while they are new and you should be set with good rubber for a good price.
My .02,which in Canada is now .00
Thomas

[Mark Rinker]

There are many threads here on the page that support the sage advice to leave wheel/tire diameter of diesel tow vehicles alone - or increase by no more than 5% over stock.

The ECM, TCM, gear ratio, brake hardware, etc. all work together to create a fantastic towing machine under a variety of altitudes, temperatures, loads, etc. In short, the truck that rolls out of the factory is nearly IDEAL. Changing tire size drastically requires rethinking all of the above, which is unlikely or $$$ impractical to do.

...especially if you intend to tow heavy.

[Inspector]

I'm pretty sure that the published hitch weight of the 5th wheel is with an empty trailer. So the only way to know how much weight is in the bed of the truck is to road load it and then hit the scales. Am I right? If your weight on the hitch increases then your payload decreases in the truck. Keep in mind the max weight that the rear axle is rated at, you may have to lighten up the pin weight and leave some pots and pans home.
Denny