How so?
There should be some accountability by the mfg, but how is not the responsibility of the vendor? Why should a consumer have to contact a mfg if a purchase is through a vendor? Is there an express warranty provided by AMG/GEP? What obligation do they have, outside their original contract? If not for the military contract, there would be no new 6.5L engine design. The market would not support it, and we'd be stuck with the same old thing.
You're mixing apples and oranges in your reasoning.
First, AMG/GEP chose to market their engines for commercial sales. Part of the agreement between GM and AMG when the sale of the 6.5 program was completed was to provide service support for the 6.5.
Do you think that GM will eat all the warranty associated with engines produced by GEP? NO! AMG/GEP will foot the bill. Do you think that Kennedy Diesel or Peninsular foot the warranty bill for the AMG/GEP engines that they sell? NO! Where you are correct is that the customer must go through the dealer or vendor to get the support. AMG/GEP will only work with their authorized vendors. So the process is that the customer contacts the dealer with his complaint. If the dealer believes it has merit, he contacts AMG/GEP with the complaint. AMG/GEP will then evaluate the complaint. If it has merit, they issue warranty payment to the dealer who then squares up with the customer. I never said that the customer should have to contact the manufacturer directly. You put those words into my keyboard.
The absurdity lies in your reasoning that they are contracted to the government to build these engines with no warranty; therefore, they do not provide a warranty to the commercial side. This just shows a lack of understanding of how defense contractors work. I've spent 20 years working in the aerospace business where the same engine model (basically) is sold to the government with no warranty and to the commercial sector with a substantial warranty.
You are correct in saying that there would be no new development of this platform without the government contract.
What is likely happening here is that the dealer he bought the engine from is not an authorized AMG/GEP reseller. AMG/GEP will not assume any liability in that case. Buyer beware.
That is my point. There is no warranty expressed by AMG/GEP to the end user. Any warranty would be negotiated between the mfg and it's distributors. There is an implied warranty with all products produced and sold in the US. In that, the product must provide a service as described or advertised. Once a component is installed and placed into service (as with a government contract), the warranty ends. If a defect is discovered prior to or during installation or placement into service, the mfg must replace/repair the product. Any warranty between a civilian supplier and the mfg has to be negotiated and argued by the supplier. While not the experience you have, I do have experience with intermediate and depot level military aircraft component service, repair, engineering and sourcing (mostly flight control systems). I've worked very closely with Grumman, Lockheed, Vought and Bendix, among others, for several years, and their policies are the same as we are seeing with AMG/GEP. Many of their military products contracted to the military/government are marketed to the public. They also design and market non-military products of the same or similar technology to the public. If the ABS system in your vehicle had issues, you would have no chance of getting it resolved dealing with the mfg. You have to handle it through the distributor, GM, or whomever involved.
I think you are right about the vendor. Probably not an authorized AMG/GEP distributor. I wonder how they are sourcing them. Unless they are buying and selling seconds, discards, and/or returns, they would have to contract with the mfg in some manner. Or, they are sourcing them through another authorized supplier. I can't imagine AMG/GEP releasing sound products through uncontracted vendors. Too much assumed liability with that scenario.
Um everybody is missing the POINT: GEP/Am General does not offer any warranty TO ANY OF ITS VENDORS AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS WAS TOLD TO ME BY SEVERAL GOOD SOURCES. When ANYBODY BUYS A ENGINE DIRECTLY form GEP, it is a tailight warranty to all of there vendors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is what I know for a fact. GM has there own warranty on their engine AFTER THEY GET IT FROM GEP, none at all before! This is the same for all other vendors. Just a $$$$$$ loss (when they have a claim) to any vendor that buys from GEP/AM General. I have researched the hell out of this, made more phone calls than I have ever dreamed about! If someone else knows more than me or has a angle to have GEP stand behind thjeir junk, YOU let me know first! Also believe me, I have no intention bashing GEP/AM general but these are the cold hard facts I have learned about them. My case in point I have a engine that was purchased in july 2005 that i finished installing October 2005 went down with 20,xxx miles on it in October 2007. I bought this engine with a unlimited 1 year warranty. It ran great, never a problem. I could not be happier! THEN I HAD A PROBLEM and the ONLY problem is that the COOLANT GOT INTO the OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We'll i told myself( this is not good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,better not drive it anymore, the heat doesnt work check the for coolant leaks, no visible coolant leaks, were did my antifreeze go??????????????? OH I discovered thsat the OIL was WAY full and Milky, I know the diffrence between a radiator cap and a OIL CAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Pulled it out and pulled the PAN, Wohla, A CRACKED BLOCK. I would of had ZERO problems buying a engine from a GM dealership but would have cost me 1200.00 more at the time. (that 1200.00 I saved bout me a engine with a 1 year warranty) HOW DID I do this to my engine? Well beats the hell out of me? AND yes everything was new also when the engine was put in and believe me, EVERYTHING. So how do you people feel now about GEP now? IM SICK as hell. If someone can prove to me that GEP is legit and would help me out, I will give a hundred dollars to them!(NO BULL) I am shure my money is safe with all that is said.
Yes, we all want our engines to run a good long time without a problem, and like you, I would be unhappy with just 2 years of service. But, as you stated above, your vendor apparently did provide a warranty... Were you aware of the one year warranty when you bought it?.....October 2005 went down with 20,xxx miles on it in October 2007. I bought this engine with a unlimited 1 year warranty.
Jim
Klink,
Sorry about the bad news. I don't mean to rub salt in the wound, and I'm sure I'd be spittin' mad in your shoes, too. The question I have, having read this thread through again, is what has International Diesel said/done about this? You've obviously done your homework on AMG/GEP, but there seams to be some question regarding the authenticity of the product they sell. If it is in fact a knockoff, International Diesel is where I would focus my attention.
Good Luck. I hope you get some satisfaction out of all this.
Brett
2005 GMC Sierra SLT Dually Crew, 4x4, stock
71,000 kms
Absolutly I was aware of the warranty, thats why i spent the extra coin on my end for pump injectors, oil cooler, water pump, radiator, glow plugs, clutch fan.................My engine did NOT fail, the BLOCK DID I know you people reading this think I am nuts by crying about my block but "GEP"s redefined enhanced better alloy block .................................................. ........still failed. I bought this engine because I wanted the best and it was running fine before I pulled it out, just had to find why the oil was all milky. It had no problem running, just did not hold water anymore. AND YES IT IS A GEP BLOCK.. International Harvestor logo and all...................My only and one arguement is if this block/engine was SO GREAT, why did the block crack and everything else looks like new in side? They probally never attemted to fix their problems with the 6.5L block, GEP just wants everybody to probally believe them. I am nobody to them I guess. Just another $$$$$$$$$$ loss. But I am a consumer telling my problems about my engine block, not to talk about wash machines.
I still would like to see the detailed images of the block in question. I've seen a few of the knock-off blocks and might be able to ID such a block if you've indeed gotten one verses the genuine AMG block.
Without the images, the jury is still out.
1982 C10 SCSWB 6.5TD, mods too extensive to list. (13.69 1/4 mile @94.6 MPH) RACE TRUCK
1982 C10 SCSWB 6.2NA, 2.73 700
1986 C10 SCLWB 6.2TD 3.73 700
1989 V20 SUB 6.2NA, 3.73 400
1994 G20 VAN 6.5NA, 3.42 60E
1994 K20LD ECSWB 6.5TD, 3.42 80E
1995 K20 SUB 6.5TD, Wrecked, ran into by stupid teen.
1995 C3500HD DRW 6.5TD, 12' Flatbed 5.13 80E
1995 C3500HD DRW 6.5TD, 18' Rollback Wrecker 4.63 80E
1994 C20HD ECLWB 6.5TD 3.73 80E Wifes Truck.
1995 C20LD ECSWB 6.5TD 3.73 80E
1995 K20LD SCLWB 6.5TD 3.73 80E
1996 K30 DRW 6.5TD 4.10 80E
1997 C10 Tahoe 2Door 2WD 5.7L to 6.5 Conversion Underway
Again, what does/did International Diesel say or do about it?
2005 GMC Sierra SLT Dually Crew, 4x4, stock
71,000 kms
What would they have to say? They are only the foundry. They would suggest he contact his supplier, and nothing more. They may take in interest if a flaw in the castings were discovered in several, but they still won't take an interest in a warranty claim. Bark up the wrong tree, if you must. It won't serve your interest or provide a solution to the problem at hand.
He's talking about the outfit, International Diesel, in Ronkonkoma, NY...not the foundry.
Ok you all can look in my photo gallery now. Let me know what all you experts think. Thanks!
Two years and 20K miles you say? Looks like desert camo....
OK, what am I missing? Where are the photos?
(OK, I found them. I'm bandwidth challenged so it was unfamiliar territory.)
I didn't see the IH Logo... Why are you so sure this is not a counterfit? Also, if International Diesel cannot buy blocks from AMG/GEP, where do you think they get them from? If they are selling them on the cheap, it is unlikely they are buying them from legitimate vendors, so...
Last edited by JohnC; 04-06-2008 at 11:51.
The Constitution needs to be re-read, not re-written!
If you can't handle Dr. Seuss, how will you handle real life?
Current oil burners: MB GLK250 BlueTEC, John Deere X758
New ride: MB GLS450 - most stately
Gone but not forgotten: '87 F350 7.3, '93 C2500 6.5, '95 K2500 6.5, '06 K2500HD 6.6, '90 MB 350SDL, Kubota 7510
Can we get a photo of the valley showing the Navistar diamonds?
84 C10 J code intake.
83 C10 Scottsdale w/veggie conversion.
98 K3500 Silverado CC DRW, marine injectors, 4" exhaust (kitty cat MIA), boost and egt gauges, FSD relocated, #9 resistor thingy, reman Navistar block from Kennedy installed Jan 08, Reese Signature Series Gooseneck hitch.
95 C2500 F code. Rebuilt GEP. Daily driver since Jan 2014.
The Constitution needs to be re-read, not re-written!
If you can't handle Dr. Seuss, how will you handle real life?
Current oil burners: MB GLK250 BlueTEC, John Deere X758
New ride: MB GLS450 - most stately
Gone but not forgotten: '87 F350 7.3, '93 C2500 6.5, '95 K2500 6.5, '06 K2500HD 6.6, '90 MB 350SDL, Kubota 7510
Again EVERBODY this was a complete GEP/AM General Built Engine, bought thru International Diesel out of NEW York. Complete longblock assembly, had a delco filter on it, all the nice little paint marker stripes over the plugs and bolts, plastic plug caps in all of the injector holes, and It came with diffrent motor mount bolts and bellhousing bolts also, + new motor mount clams and the instructions to boot for the new bolt kit. Plus if you look at the pic of my nice dirty gravel road covered engine, you notice a paper tag that is still sticking to the head and block? Not readable but it is there. Sorry about NOT having a pic of the Navistar logo, the Pump was still on the block and could not get a pic of it when (the pump) it was on and when I had the camera out. Geez do I have to bring the block by your house so you can look at it there? Date code is also in the pics I posted in the photo album. What dont you people believe? Oh it also has the larger oil coooler fittings needed near the oil filter boss.
Does this mean December 17, 2003?