Edge Costomer Service

[Inspector]

I have been working with Edge to chip my C5500. It according to the RPO build sticker is an LLY/LRX. My chip arrived and was installed only to set a CEL and begin to run rough. I contacted Rob at Edge and told him what had happened. He thought that maybe the harness was bad and would replace it. I was going to be in Ogden the next day with the rig so he said bring it by and he would take care of the problem and he did. We put on a new harness and module and that went to limp and a CEL. Come to find out that the engine in my 2006 Jayco Seneca and chassis built in 2005 actually has an LBZ engine in it. No wonder the chip wouldn't work. He then gave me the module and attitude for a LBZ and it is good. I have worked with Rob in the pasted and he is knowledgable, very courteous and helpful. Edge is a very busy place and I know that some have had a difficult time getting in contact with them but with some patience and courtesy you will be taken care of. Give them a chance to let there AAA+ costomer service work and you will be happy. I certainly am.

[Mark Rinker]

Glad to hear they got you up and running! My early 2006 K3500 cab/chassis hauler body was also an LBZ that had an LLY vin code.

If you have options to monitor multiple engine parameters with the Edge, might I suggest putting IAT right next to boost on your display? Then, as you are driving in hot, windy, or mountainous terrain, you can see when your turbo is working overtime - as the spread between outside temps and IAT increases.

My 2004 LB7 C4500 Kodiak had no problem with a basic +40hp tune, but would limp instantly under the load of only an empty trailer, siting tranny slip with +50hp or more...

With the larger frontal grille area and oversized radiator/deep transmission pan/larger engine oil capacities that are designed into the Kodiak series, I suspect you'll have no problem keeping up with the extra heat generated by the LBZ's turbo, but you'll want to watch it carefully as you have now added extra fueling, and there aren't as many Seneca owners out there to take the first lumps, if any are in store to be taken...

The pioneers get the arrows... Good luck!

[Inspector]

Thanks for the insight Mark. As of right now I am real happy with the way this thing is working. I drive at 65 mph and in cruise. I have level 2 on and this thing will go up and down the hills without a problem. Seldom shifts down. It seems not to be working at all. The best part is the fuel mileage. We are on the road and at this minute we are in a campground in North Platte NE. I filled up in Ogden Ut. and again in Rawlins Wy. Filling to the lip each time the first fueling yeilded 9.1. I filled again here in North Platte and got 9.9. I am thrilled so far as the head wind from Larimie to North Platte was brisk. Even with comeing off the front range (somewhat downhill) it just cruises. Water temps never above 222. Boost tops at about 18/19. Trans temp. 160/180. I don't have the EGT probe in yet but will before this trip is ended. It holds speed up most any grade. It has never shifted down lower than 4th. I can't get the grin off my face. I'm thinking that if I have the LBZ I just might have the trans that can have the 6th gear turned on. I don't know that it would be a good idea with the weight that I am carrying but who knows. I am towing a ranger p/u and my GCVWR is right at 27K. Wife had to take her plants with us. Anyway all is well. I will get the EGT probe installed shortly.

[Mark Rinker]

All the number sound good. Glad to hear of the mileage improvement!

Out of curiosity, can you get us some delta numbers between ambient (outside) temps and IAT temps, at level cruise?


Keep grinning, it will make people wonder what you are up to...

[Inspector]

I'll see what I can do today.

[Inspector]

I a few differential numbers you asked for.
We began from North Platte.
Outside air temp---------Boost---------IAT
75F 7 138
80 8 143
85 8 138

After that it started to rain and it cooled back down. I'll try tomorrow to get some more. We will be starting out tomorrow from Lincoln NE early. I will be going up to Omaha on 80 over to 218 and down to 34 on into Burlington IA. Should be able to get some more numbers.

[Mark Rinker]

1) What is your RPM at 65mph ground speed?
2) When you get to a long stretch where there isn't much variation in terrain (central/eastern Iowa I80) could you return to stock tune and compare those temps to your Level 2 setting?

It appears your cooling system has no problem keeping up with your additional fuel rates. However, don't confuse those acceptable temps with the fact that your engine and turbo are working hard at all times to move the constant load of camper and towed vehicle... (The ~60F delta in temps indicates that your turbo is working hard - good news is that they can take it. If you had a F*rd with the 6.0L it would eventully puke a turbo with that constant loading...) You will want to have the EGT probe installed, and a good handle on how things should behave, before diving into the mountains.

My guess is that with Level 2 fueling, you'll see 1150-1250 nominal cruising EGTs, with as high as 1450 peaks (temporary spikes) based on the spread of ambient to IAT that you are recording. You may 'hit the tipping point' thermally when pulling mountain grades at high altitude. No worries if you recognize the extra fuel rate as the culprit, and can return to stock after letting things idle back to cooler temps.

[Inspector]

Some more numbers:

Outside air temp Boost IAT

80 6 129
85 9 147
90 11 143
95 6 154

In for the night in Mt Pleasent Iowa.
The truck is performing well. Up and down the undulations of interstate 80 with the cruise locked at 65. I don't think it shifted down on the Council Bluffs grade. I was able to pass on the upside those speckie semis. Of course me running 65 they would pass me on the downside. I still have that grin. The mileage fell off some with the up and downs but I knew that would happen.
Anyway all is good.

[Mark Rinker]

Can I talk you into returning to the stock settings - for some baseline numbers?

[Inspector]

Mark:
These are stock numbers on the Juice.
I was only able to get a couple of sets of numbers on our trip down to Hannibal Mo.
Temp 72
Boost 15
IAT 127

Temp 80
Boost 9
IAT 127

On the way from here to KC I can get some more. I am going to try and get the EGT probe in this evening.
Dennis

[Inspector]

The RPM at 65 is 2200 to 2300.
Another number for today
90 degrees Stock flat ground 65 mph.
143 IAT
9 Boost

[Mark Rinker]

Same RPM/ground speed as my C4500 Kodiak. When I replaced rubber, went with tallest rears available to decrease RPM by about 5%. You might want to investigate that possibility, if you have clearance in your wheelwells.

Numbers sound about right, you are under a pretty good load at all times but that is what the Duramax is made for. I'd keep good synthetic oil in her, and change regularly depending on how severe the conditions are. Summertime mountainous 5K, wintertime loafing around in cool weather 8-10K. Just my thoughts.

Don't forget about the rear diff. Have come across two Kodiaks with scattered Eaton rear ends they aren't bulletproof if ignored. Good fresh synthetic every 50K wouldn't be excessive, IMO. My mileage went up after swapping factory rear fluid to Royal Purple at 25K. When the RP was drained at ~100K it was shot, stinky, nasty.

Anything you can do to open up the exhaust? Does yours have a cat to lose? A custom 5" peice no cat no muffler would be sweet from end to end...

Does your rig have propane already on board for the stove, refridgerator, heat...? A very light propane fumigation over Edge level 1 would run hills effortlessly, extends cruise range between fuel stops, and can save $$$ if you can buy propane for 65% or less than #2 diesel...not sure what the gap is at Flying Js these days. SuperChips sells the MSD digitial system it can be set up to only come in at predetermined boost levels (peak loads) and is fail-safe as it monitors OBD-II data and won't accidentally overfuel.

[Inspector]

I took the edge off yesterday. When I put it on and started the trip it on occaision would give a buck and a snort. Maybe once to twice in 50 miles. It was predictable on transition from a pull to rolling on power. I called Rob over at edge and he said that it needs an update. I got down into Texas and the ambient temps climbed to the 100s. It started to buck more often. It finally through a P0087 which is low fuel rail pressure and lost power.
I first changed the fuel filter and cleared the code and headed down the road. When I bought the MH I was told that the fuel filter was change along with the oil and filter. The engine was done but the fuel filter I am sure wasn't done. Well long story short the filter wasn't the problem even though it was dirty.
As soon as I get back Rob will take care of me. I have been keeping him updated all through the trip.
As for the temps that I was keeping track of, I can see what you were eluding to as to fuel rates and IATs. You could see the difference when the levels were changed at differing ambient temps. Very interesting. I don't know if I'm going to be into the rest of the mods that you spoke of. As it is now I just don't see a need for that much more power. Even in stock config it has good power. It was nice to lock into cruise at 65 and see no change in speed level 1 and 2.
Dennis

[Mark Rinker]

My guess is that you needed a fuel filter - and it was a totally separate problem, unrelated to the 'buck/snort' driveability problem created when you added the extra power with the Edge...

Important Questions: Does it happen on both Level 1 and Level 2? If so, was the 'buck/snort' more likely to happen on Level 2 than Level 1?

>>> It was predictable on transition from a pull to rolling on power. <<<

I wish you had informed us here of the 'buck/snort' sooner - it sure sounds like torque converter slippage to me based on your description of 1) when it happens, 2) the feeling you get through the chassis (buck), and 3) that it is repeatable and predictable. If it is TC slippage, that is NOT GOOD my friend...big repair bills loom in your near future if you allow it to continue.

The observation that it was happening more often in the Texas heat worries me as well - what were transmission temps doing when you decided to remove the Edge?

The TCM will catch internal transmission clutch slippage (compares input and output shaft speeds) and set a code with a visibile indicator on your medium duty console - but torque converter slippage is undetectable - until bad things happen.

Please inspect your transmission fluid today. If it is darkening or stinky, and you want to continue to run with MORE POWER...well...I'd be looking for a heavy duty aftermarket billet TC before your stocker grenades from slippage and takes a perfectly good transmission along with it from contamination.

Either that, or return to stock power settings, and pray the TC didn't get hurt too bad. If the fluid is still bright pink and smells good, then consider yourself lucky - but by all means, get the power down (Level 1, max) to where you don't ever feel that 'buck/snort' again...

Sounds like you have a great contact at Edge, but remember, he won't pay your shop bill.

[Mark Rinker]

>>> I don't know if I'm going to be into the rest of the mods that you spoke of. As it is now I just don't see a need for that much more power. >>>

1) Agreed that the propane injection mod would be uneccessary if running other forms of additional fueling (Edge, etc.) Whats interesting to me is that you may already have the 'alternate fuel' on board, and better control of when and how much extra power is added. I experimented alot with this when towing heavy with a 2001 K2500HD. Different from your Seneca, but I know exactly how I'd set it up to help pull hills. The drawback with most power adders is they are simply adding more fuel at all times. You don't need more fueling on level cruise - you need more fueling when accelerating from a dead stop, and pulling hills, right???

In short, boost seems to be the tail of the dog to most power adders. If enough is there to burn the extra fuel, then life is good. In the case of the Edge, the black smoke you see in the mirror under heavy acceleration says that there is NOT enough boost present to burn the extra fuel. (Did you ever install your EGT probe???) Conversely, the MSD system will add only a predetermined amount of extra fuel at a predetermined boost level (after turbo is spooled up) and then pull that extra fuel when boost falls back to a normal cruise. Big difference in approaches. More Power - and only as much, and only when you need it...

2) The tire and exhaust mods aren't in search of MORE POWER they are mods that would make the power you have easier on your engine/drivetrain/wallet.

[Inspector]

I didn't have the bucking untill the Edge was installed. It did it even when set at 0 or stock.
As soon as it was removed the bucking stopped. The trans shifts smoothly and on time when it needs to. I will check the fluid this morning but don't think I'll find a problem. The trans has been running cool even with the Edge installed. Never over 180.
Since removing the Edge the only thing that I miss is not staying in OD pulling a long hill. The rolling hills are no problem it will stay in OD. This trans was shipped with Transynd so has a good syn installed. I think I'm good but will see when the updated Edge is installed and tested. Right now I am running without the Edge installed.
Dennis

[Mark Rinker]

Very strange, indeed if it happens on Level 0 but not when installed. My question for Edge Tech would be "...what parameters are still 'not stock' when the Edge system is set on Level 0 - i.e. back to stock' ???

Maybe its just a hardware glitch with the Edge and your tech is right on track with the fix. Hopefully!!!

Don't mean to be alarmist this morning - but your description sounded very familiar to my first '06 LBZ torque converter failure.


1) Did it happen more often on Level 2 than on Level 1?
2) What gear are you in when the 'buck/snort' typically happens? Is TC locked up, or open at that time?
3) Did you ever experience a 'buck/snort' when on level cruise control on, or always under acceleration?

[Inspector]

It didn't mater what level I was in when it bucked. It wasn't ever a violent buck and yes it would do it in 0. The TC is always locked. As I recall it bucked in cruise (5th) in transition from power on to power equal and I think that the heat of 104 degrees may have played into the problem of more bucking. When the temp was cooler it would do it much less often.
After establishing level cruise it would be alright untill just over the crest of a rise and the power would roll off to equal and at that point it would buck once.
I sure missed it when pulling I70 out of Denver. Could have used the extra power. It did alright though and I'm not dissatisfied with the overall performance even in stock form with the weight that I'm horseing around. The scales tell me that I'm a shade over 26.5 GCVWR.
It has lost the milage that I beleive the Edge gave me. It just didn't have to work as hard.
Mileage has dropped to about 8.5 but I'm not complaining as the V10 F--d 31ss at about half the weight was 2 less than that.
You asked about the trans fluid color and smell. Its pink and smells new. The trans is shifting smooth as glass.
We shall see.
Dennis

[Mark Rinker]

Glad to hear it. I bet you're just in need of a new box. Sounds hardware related to me.

[Inspector]

I'm fairly confident that that is all that it is.
Dennis