Newbie With a 1983 G Series Van & 6.2

[Bigshankhank]

Glow plug diagnosis help.
Current symptom; when I turn the key to the run position, the dash glow plug light does NOT illuminate, nor does the solenoid on the back of the driver's side head click. Step one in everything I've read is to start with the fuse, but I cannot locate it. Any guidance on where I will find it? My fuse panel beneath the dash is old and I cannot make out what should be what down there. However I am not seeing any 20a fuses which are burned-out.
Thanks

[Bigshankhank]

While searching for the glow plug fuse, I went ahead and followed the wiring and controller testing procedure and come to find out that the controller is showing too much resistance on the 2 - 3 pin test (reading 1.8ohms, spec is .4 - .7ohm). So looks like the controller needs to go.

[Dvldog8793]

Just fyi, Ive been running my blazer for 3 years without a controller. I use a momentary button to run the relay when I need it. This engine is very strong and will start with no glow time about 50% of the time in moderate temps.

Also might want to ohm out the GPs while your in there.

[Bigshankhank]

Given that this is my daughters vehicle, I am trying to make its operation as simple as possible. Teaching her about how glow plugs work has been enough of an effort, teaching her now that she needs to learn to use a new starting technique (momentary switch) is just going to confuse/frustrate her. So as with the OEM lift pump, I am going back to as much of the original design as possible and upgrading only those things where the operational impact is minimal.

[Bigshankhank]

I do appreciate the suggestion, but there will come a time where she will need to manage this thing herself, and I don't want to spend my days explaining to her over the phone from wherever she is broken down how we kajiggerred her TPS so she needs to explain it to the tow truck that picks her up. I've got that kind of confidence in my knowledge, but if I'm not around she needs the machine to be as close to the original textbook as possible. I am trying to teach her about mechanics, but she really has no interest and just needs this thing to work.

[Dvldog8793]

There were two different glow plug controllers. if you look in the books or do a search you will find the change over year. the newer style is the one to go with. I think the year was 1986 that the newer style started.
I agree 100% in the KISS theory....

[Bigshankhank]

I thought the newer controller required relocating the controller? Seems like a lot of the advice is written for suburbans & C-series trucks as opposed to the skeevy pedo-van.

Any recommendation on which manufacturer to go with or stay away from? I've chased hell on O2 sensors buying cheap ones (niekon or some such) as opposed to proper Delco, so I am willing to pay a little more for a better quality unit.

[DmaxMaverick]

Yes, Delco is preferred. Rather than replacing what was original, do yourself a favor and upgrade to the 1985+ controller and inhibit switch (temp sender). More simple and more reliable. It's also a good idea to install a manual override for either system, for when it doesn't want to play nice. It's as simple as adding a momentary switch/button (in the dash) to apply 12V to the small pole on the relay.

[Bigshankhank]

Well I am trying to get a hold of Kennedy Diesel to get some info on the controller upgrade kit they sell. Hopefully I can release an order today or tomorrow, I really want to get this thing running again.

[Bigshankhank]

Whelp, Kennedy has a new controller upgrade kit heading my way. Looking forward to breaking out the soldering gun and making this baby rattle again. At least, assuming the lift pump is working. And my fuel tank isn't completely contaminated. And my injector pump isn't shot. Baby steps...

[Dvldog8793]

I would make sure that you have a clean known fuel source.

[Bigshankhank]

I would make sure that you have a clean known fuel source.

Yeah, I've got a spare boat tank and as much as I don't want to risk air getting in to the system and have to bleed the injectors again, I guess I need to remove the rubber feed line from the lift pump and drop it in to that tank filled with some new diesel.
Take it from me, while in a truck or suburban there might be easy access to the injectors and glow plugs, in the van that doghouse tunnel makes air bleeding a royal PITA.

[Bigshankhank]

So I am installing the upgraded glow plug controller from Kennedy and came across a wiring anomaly. The switched power wire to pin #3 on the original controller is a very pale blue, to the point that I mistook it for light green. Anyway, that wire goes to the old relay (which I am removing) into a two prong plug, the other wire in that plug is pink. With the OEM relay removed, I checked that pink wire and it has battery voltage when the key is in the run position. The blue wire is dead. According to the instructions I received from John Kennedy, I need to tap in to that blue wire on pin #3 to a given terminal on the new relay/controller, but if I am not mistaken that will do nothing. I should connect that pink wire, is that right? This sounds obvious in my head, but I want to double check.

Also, I keep putting off removing the rubber line to the lift pump and running a new line to a spare fuel tank with new fresh diesel, mainly because I don't want to bleed air from the injectors again. But from reading, will I actually have to bleed air that way? I thought you only had to bleed the injectors if you got air between the lift and injection pumps (like when you replace the secondary fuel filter)? Its not the end of the world to bleed them, but it is a royal PITA in a van.

Thanks for your responses.

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
In the 6.2/6.5 diesels that I have owned over the years and working on them in the USMC....I have never cracked a line to bleed air. Maybe I'm lucky....
I have always just cranked to bleed air from the system through the injectors. Most of the time it takes about two cycles of 15-20 seconds and they are running.
Also I have never had the misfortune of have an un known air leak in the system.
I don't think you'll have to injector bleed the system. pinch the hose with a visegrip and take it out.
good luck...

[DmaxMaverick]

Check with Kennedy for wiring questions on the controller, if it isn't OEM. If the controller is a simple 1985+, it should have Batt+ to one large pole, the other large pole goes to the GP's or GP harness, and Ign+ goes to the small "S" pole (just like on a starter solenoid). If it has a 4th pole, that is for the inhibit switch (coolant temp switch). Either way, confirm what you have with Kennedy.

You should never have to bleed the injectors if there is no air between the IP and injectors. Prevent this by removing the pink/power/front wire from the IP while messing with the fuel supply. Don't plug it back in until the rest of the system is bled. If you this, only minimal air will have to pass (most out the return), which will be negligible. The short route between the final filter and IP is only a small amount, but shouldn't have air in it unless you pushed air to the IP from the filter.

[Bigshankhank]

Check with Kennedy for wiring questions on the controller, if it isn't OEM. If the controller is a simple 1985+, it should have Batt+ to one large pole, the other large pole goes to the GP's or GP harness, and Ign+ goes to the small "S" pole (just like on a starter solenoid). If it has a 4th pole, that is for the inhibit switch (coolant temp switch). Either way, confirm what you have with Kennedy.

You should never have to bleed the injectors if there is no air between the IP and injectors. Prevent this by removing the pink/power/front wire from the IP while messing with the fuel supply. Don't plug it back in until the rest of the system is bled. If you this, only minimal air will have to pass (most out the return), which will be negligible. The short route between the final filter and IP is only a small amount, but shouldn't have air in it unless you pushed air to the IP from the filter.

I am waiting to hear back from Kennedy re: the wiring questions.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts on the air bleed. I initially replaced both filters and had to bleed the air at the injectors due to the secondary filter downstream of the IP, then when I replaced the lift pump along with all of the rubber fuel lines from the lift pump back to the tank, I went ahead and bled them again figuring that with the line between the lift and IP being open air would've gotten back in. If I don't have to do it again, that would be awesome. Time will tell.

Thank you again.

[DmaxMaverick]

There is no filter downstream of the injection pump. As long as you don't PUSH air to the IP, there should be no air at the IP. All air bleeding should be done, finally, at the final filter immediately before the IP. Opening any of the filters to air will not allow air into the IP (or the injector lines or injectors. Disconnecting the IP inlet solenoid (ESS) connector prevents any air from entering the IP, as long as it is not reconnected (and cranked) before all the air is bled and the system is closed.

[Bigshankhank]

I got ya, sorry for my confusion, I don't think it clicked that the secondary filter is fed directly off of the lift pump.

Anyway, back to the controller upgrade. There is an article in volume I of the diesel book on this site which details how to accomplish this upgrade. Speaking with John K earlier it sounds like this would give me a clear shot at completing this upgrade, would anyone be willing to shoot me a copy of it? I am not opposed to buying it, and if that is the case then so be it, but since I only need the one article that would be very helpful. I bought the troubleshooting manual from the library, but it only describes how to diagnose/repair the OEM systems, not cross over between the two.

Thanks.

[DmaxMaverick]

I recommend buying the TDP books relevant to your rig. The systems you've already encountered will be covered in detail, including the "crossovers", which should simplify the process. If you intend to continue DIY, it will also cover issues you will encounter later. If you are a TDP subscribing member, many of the past articles are available in the Member's areas of TDP (not the forums). Some may be made available upon request.

[Bigshankhank]

Looks like I figured it out, using the wiring diagram for both controllers. The cycle time is really short, and I guess I am still chasing a fuel issue from this point because it still won't start.