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Thread: Adding BTU to Diesel fuel

  1. #1
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    Default Adding BTU to Diesel fuel

    Hi all,

    I
    Art Paltz
    1999 Suburban K2500 6.5TD (stock)
    2000 Undercover Dragster, 468 BBC, 7.74@173MPH, waiting on new 622 aluminum BBC to be finished.
    1992 Tube Chassis Camaro, 468 BBC, 8.54@157MPH (SOLD)
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    1969 Camaro SS/RS 396-350HP, stock restoration, it never leaves the garage...

  2. #2
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    Default Try some 2-stroke oil

    I've just started experimenting with low-ash (TCW-3) 2-stroke oil added to my fuel for lubricity (documented claims of lowered injector balance rates), especially with the changeover to ULSD. I noticed immediately that my truck was "peppier" and performance seemed up. I've seen almost a 2 mpg increase in performance, even on winter fuel at double-digit sub-zero temps. I'm thinking it's got to be adding BTUs and has certainly balanced out the usual winter fuel loss so far.
    Tom Ashley 2004 6.0 2500HD/Silverado CC/SB/4x4

  3. #3
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    Default

    While I can't answer the gas in the diesel question, I will say that I have seen no reduction in fuel mileage at all since we started using ULSD in October, don't know what results others have seen, but to me is a non-issue as far as mileage is concerned.

    I do also add Stanadyne performance formula and 8 oz 2-stroke oil to each tank.
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  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Idle_Chatter
    I've just started experimenting with low-ash (TCW-3) 2-stroke oil added to my fuel for lubricity (documented claims of lowered injector balance rates), especially with the changeover to ULSD. I noticed immediately that my truck was "peppier" and performance seemed up. I've seen almost a 2 mpg increase in performance, even on winter fuel at double-digit sub-zero temps. I'm thinking it's got to be adding BTUs and has certainly balanced out the usual winter fuel loss so far.
    How much and at what ratio? I'm currently adding Standyne Lubricity. If 2-stroke is close in price I can switch to that. I know 2-stroke will certainly burn well.

    Art.
    Art Paltz
    1999 Suburban K2500 6.5TD (stock)
    2000 Undercover Dragster, 468 BBC, 7.74@173MPH, waiting on new 622 aluminum BBC to be finished.
    1992 Tube Chassis Camaro, 468 BBC, 8.54@157MPH (SOLD)
    1987 Buick Grand National, 11.8@114, pump gas (for sale)
    1969 Camaro SS/RS 396-350HP, stock restoration, it never leaves the garage...

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboDiverArt
    How much and at what ratio? I'm currently adding Standyne Lubricity. If 2-stroke is close in price I can switch to that. I know 2-stroke will certainly burn well.

    Art.
    I'm still adding FPPF Total Power for cloud point and lubricity. I've been adding FPPF to every drop of fuel I've ever run in this truck, and I'm really concerned about lubricity and cloud point with ULSD (untreated ULSD clouds at +10 F and we've been double-digit below at night here in Idaho). As far as the 2-cycle. It's 100:1 oil, I put a full quart into my 40 gallon in bed aux and 1/2 quart into my 26 gallon OEM tank. (Thats 32 oz/5120 oz in the aux, which is 1:160 and 16 oz in 3328 oz in the OEM, which is 1:208) I didn't want to dose too heavily with the thick oil in subzero temps, although it is snowmobile oil.
    Tom Ashley 2004 6.0 2500HD/Silverado CC/SB/4x4

  6. #6
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    Default

    Anybody understand the difference in OCTANE rating and CETANE rating?

    Or that Diesel fuel has 20% more BTU content by volume than gasoline, and that winterized Diesel fuel still has more BTU content than gasoline?

    Why would you want to lower the cetane rating any more by adding gasoline to winter Diesel?

    Or dilute the viscosity rating any further?

    It's those old wives' tales that gave Diesels such a bad rap.

    And, don't get me started on Acetone.....................
    Last edited by gmctd; 01-23-2007 at 23:45.
    jd
    '96 Dodge 3500HD cc 2wd drw............'89 GMC 3500 cc 4wd drw
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  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gmctd
    Anybody understand the difference in OCTANE rating and CETANE rating?

    Or that Diesel fuel has 20% more BTU content by volume than gasoline, and that winterized Diesel fuel still has more BTU content than gasoline?

    Why would you want to lower the cetane rating any more by adding gasoline to winter Diesel?

    Or dilute the viscosity rating any further?

    It's those old wives' tales that gave Diesels such a bad rap.

    And, don't get me started on Acetone.....................
    I honestly didn't know that Diesel has more BTU than Gasoline. That explains a lot as to why a Diesel is more efficient than a gas engine. I could never quite explain that. The only reason I thought that gas had more was because of EGT's. The EGT's are lower on my truck than in my gas car and the truck is double the weight and double the engine. My street car routinely cruises at above 500-600 degrees EGT while my truck is never that high while cruising. Both are turbo charged and intercooled.

    You won
    Art Paltz
    1999 Suburban K2500 6.5TD (stock)
    2000 Undercover Dragster, 468 BBC, 7.74@173MPH, waiting on new 622 aluminum BBC to be finished.
    1992 Tube Chassis Camaro, 468 BBC, 8.54@157MPH (SOLD)
    1987 Buick Grand National, 11.8@114, pump gas (for sale)
    1969 Camaro SS/RS 396-350HP, stock restoration, it never leaves the garage...

  8. #8
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    Good Day!

    "...Diesel has more BTU than Gasoline. That explains a lot as to why a Diesel is more efficient than a gas engine." ...& a diesel has no throttle plate. Last time I checked, it took hp to produce a vacuum. A gasser is ALWAYS producing vacuum, even at WOT. During most driving conditions, the throttle plate on a gasser is partially closed, refelected by the amount of manifold vacuum produced. Your diesel draws all the air it can, all the time.

    The combination of more BTU's in the fuel, & lack of a throttle plate, is most of the reason diesels always achieve better mpg than gassers.

    Blessings!
    82 6.2NA K15 4X4 pickup, 4spd man w/ OD, 335K+ "In Rust We Trust" (parked)
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by moondoggie
    & a diesel has no throttle plate. Last time I checked, it took hp to produce a vacuum. A gasser is ALWAYS producing vacuum, even at WOT. During most driving conditions, the throttle plate on a gasser is partially closed, refelected by the amount of manifold vacuum produced. Your diesel draws all the air it can, all the time.

    The combination of more BTU's in the fuel, & lack of a throttle plate, is most of the reason diesels always achieve better mpg than gassers.

    Blessings!
    That's a piece of the puzzle I never thought about!

    Art.
    Art Paltz
    1999 Suburban K2500 6.5TD (stock)
    2000 Undercover Dragster, 468 BBC, 7.74@173MPH, waiting on new 622 aluminum BBC to be finished.
    1992 Tube Chassis Camaro, 468 BBC, 8.54@157MPH (SOLD)
    1987 Buick Grand National, 11.8@114, pump gas (for sale)
    1969 Camaro SS/RS 396-350HP, stock restoration, it never leaves the garage...

  10. #10
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    Adding 2 stroke oil to diesel.

    Does it matter which brand you use at all? How much to add? I think i read 1/2 quart for 26 gallons...anyone else have anything to say about it?
    James

  11. #11
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    I dump a Qt. of any thing I can pick up cheap. 10-40, 30wt or 2cycle. every time I top off. But still use Stanadyne blue or Howes all year.If the Motor oil gets to concentrated I can smell it in the exhaust and I skip a dose. The oil is mainly for peace of mind for lubeing the pump. If you want to see what extra BTU's can do for your truck, chuck in some Home Heating oil and boost the cetane. Your truck will love it.
    Dave
    99 sub 2500, 326,000mi, 4:10, 265-75-16 rubber, remote Dtech fsd and turbo master from Heath Isspro pyrometer and boost gauge-Kennedy, 1.94 TDCO, 3" custom bent exh.
    07 Suburban,08 LMM, Allison 6 speed.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave NY
    I dump a Qt. of any thing I can pick up cheap. 10-40, 30wt or 2cycle. every time I top off. But still use Stanadyne blue or Howes all year.If the Motor oil gets to concentrated I can smell it in the exhaust and I skip a dose. The oil is mainly for peace of mind for lubeing the pump. If you want to see what extra BTU's can do for your truck, chuck in some Home Heating oil and boost the cetane. Your truck will love it.
    Dave
    Home heating oil? how much? Currently I add Diesel Power Service "Diesel Kleen + Cetane boost"
    James

  13. #13
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    I have run on #2 for mos at a time usually during boating season, truck and the Cats in the boat like it very much. You just have to treat the fuel with cetane boost. I treat 275 gal with a 2 qt jug of Stanadyne Blue. Dave
    99 sub 2500, 326,000mi, 4:10, 265-75-16 rubber, remote Dtech fsd and turbo master from Heath Isspro pyrometer and boost gauge-Kennedy, 1.94 TDCO, 3" custom bent exh.
    07 Suburban,08 LMM, Allison 6 speed.

  14. #14
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    Home heating oil is basically the very same as diesel (#2 fuel oil) - there is no advantage with using home heating oil , except the possibility of enriching one's attorney, since it's illegal (no road fuel tax, and likely not a legal formulation with respect to sulfur).

    Anyway, the "octane rating" is based on the performance of a motor fuels as compared to isooctane (100) versus normal heptane (0), and it's a measure of how quickly the fuel-air mixture will combust.

    Cetane rating is essentially the time-delay from injection to ignition of the fuel-air mixture. Cetane-improver is unnecessary for a diesel designed to run on 40 cetane.

    Adding motor oil to diesel fuel is unwise, since all the components don't burn; ashless 2-cycle oil is OK, but I use FPPF or CRC additives rather than 2-cycle oil.

    Adding gasoline is also not just unwise but dangerous. The diesel-gaso mixture will now have the flash/fire point of gaso - and damage to the engine is quite possible (ever notice the prohibition against using ether to start a glow-plug equipped engine?). The gaso will also defeat the addition of lubricating additves to the diesel.
    '94 Barth 28' Breakaway M/H ("StaRV II") diesel pusher: Spartan chassis, aluminum birdcage construction. Peninsular/AMG 6.5L TD (230HP), 18:1, Phazer, non-wastgated turbo, hi-pop injectors, 4L80E (Sun Coast TC & rebuild, M-H Pan), Dana 80 (M-H Cover), Fluidampr, EGT, trans temp, boost gage. Honda EV-4010 gaso genset, furnace, roof air, stove, microwave/convection, 2-dr. 3-way reefer. KVH R5SL Satellite. Cruises 2, sleeps 4, carries 6, and parties 8 (parties 12 - tested).

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustyk
    Home heating oil is basically the very same as diesel (#2 fuel oil) - there is no advantage with using home heating oil , except the possibility of enriching one's attorney, since it's illegal (no road fuel tax, and likely not a legal formulation with respect to sulfur).

    Anyway, the "octane rating" is based on the performance of a motor fuels as compared to isooctane (100) versus normal heptane (0), and it's a measure of how quickly the fuel-air mixture will combust.

    Cetane rating is essentially the time-delay from injection to ignition of the fuel-air mixture. Cetane-improver is unnecessary for a diesel designed to run on 40 cetane.

    Adding motor oil to diesel fuel is unwise, since all the components don't burn; ashless 2-cycle oil is OK, but I use FPPF or CRC additives rather than 2-cycle oil.

    Adding gasoline is also not just unwise but dangerous. The diesel-gaso mixture will now have the flash/fire point of gaso - and damage to the engine is quite possible (ever notice the prohibition against using ether to start a glow-plug equipped engine?). The gaso will also defeat the addition of lubricating additves to the diesel.
    sorry...but what is FPPF and CRC? (newbie to diesel stuff)
    James

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpidgeo
    Adding 2 stroke oil to diesel.

    Does it matter which brand you use at all? How much to add? I think i read 1/2 quart for 26 gallons...anyone else have anything to say about it?
    FPPF and CRC are other brands of fuel additives, like Stanadyne. The folks that convinced me to start trying it were sold on the new TCW-3 rated low ash oils. There are synthetics, too, but I wanted something without a lot of additives. I'm currently using Castrol 2T Snowmobile oil that I'm buying at the local Cal Ranch farm store for $2.99 a quart. Quite a few folks are using Wal Mart 2-stroke oil, but I haven't tried that.
    Tom Ashley 2004 6.0 2500HD/Silverado CC/SB/4x4

  17. #17
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    jd
    '96 Dodge 3500HD cc 2wd drw............'89 GMC 3500 cc 4wd drw
    5.9 12v #10TST 6sp SBC13-1.375.......6.5TD EFI maxEtorq v2.0 DSG
    DODGE makes it CUMMINS shakes it.....4L80E 205 4.10 Dana60\70HD
    6 in a row makes it go.......................Grandpa's big truck

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustyk
    Home heating oil is basically the very same as diesel (#2 fuel oil) - there is no advantage with using home heating oil , except the possibility of enriching one's attorney, since it's illegal (no road fuel tax, and likely not a legal formulation with respect to sulfur).

    Anyway, the "octane rating" is based on the performance of a motor fuels as compared to isooctane (100) versus normal heptane (0), and it's a measure of how quickly the fuel-air mixture will combust.

    Cetane rating is essentially the time-delay from injection to ignition of the fuel-air mixture. Cetane-improver is unnecessary for a diesel designed to run on 40 cetane.

    Adding motor oil to diesel fuel is unwise, since all the components don't burn; ashless 2-cycle oil is OK, but I use FPPF or CRC additives rather than 2-cycle oil.

    Adding gasoline is also not just unwise but dangerous. The diesel-gaso mixture will now have the flash/fire point of gaso - and damage to the engine is quite possible (ever notice the prohibition against using ether to start a glow-plug equipped engine?). The gaso will also defeat the addition of lubricating additves to the diesel.
    It is a common mistake to confuse off road (500ppm) diesel with Home heating oil they are very different with respect to sulfer and lubricating properties Which result in a higher BTU per Gal than on and off road fuel which are identical to each other except for the red dye for tax purposes.Just take a piece of clean wood and spill an ounce of each and see which one is still there after a couple of hours. As far as supporting my attny maybe we all better put the cats back on and yank the ecm's out before the boogie man gets us
    Dave
    99 sub 2500, 326,000mi, 4:10, 265-75-16 rubber, remote Dtech fsd and turbo master from Heath Isspro pyrometer and boost gauge-Kennedy, 1.94 TDCO, 3" custom bent exh.
    07 Suburban,08 LMM, Allison 6 speed.

  19. #19

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    Another reason for NOT adding gasoline to diesel would be the 10% ethanol found in most gasoline. Alcohol in diesels is not a good idea.
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  20. #20
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    Question What about this stuff?

    Anyone here tried or currently use this?

    http://www.rollingbigpower.com/products/?sfID1=12

    I currently use FPPF Total Power but was wondering about this additive.

    Mike
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