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Thread: Dmax into 93 Crew

  1. #21
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    Aug 2002
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    Hayden ID
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    Default lift

    Thanks for the replies.
    Say I go with a 2" lift. I presume something is done with the fan shroud? I also wonder about the steering column, brake lines, sway bars, bumpers etc. I guess if I got a kit it would explain all this.
    I'm puzzled with the higher lifts how the shroud is made to fit.

    Arlie
    1993 3500 Crew Cab 4X4
    454 converted to 6.5 TD (siezed)
    5 sp man

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
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    CA
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    13,573

    Arrow

    Frame lifts and body lifts are different. A body lift doesn't effect the suspension, but will effect the steering column and fan allignment. A frame lift will not effect the column and fan, but will effect the suspension/steering components. A 1-2" body lift shouldn't cause any issues with the column. More than that, and it could. If you buy a "kit", it should advise you of issues. If you build your own "kit", trial and error and advice of others will be your guide.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  3. #23
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    Arrow

    Look at the pic at the bottom of page 6 in the conversion guide. That picture shows how much of a body lift is required to center the fan in the fan shroud. Going with more lift (say 2") would require fan shroud mods.

    Jim

  4. #24
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    Hayden ID
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    Default

    I think I'll buy a 2" kit, look things over and then decide if I'll cut it down to 1". The kits aren't that expensive and I think the installation instructions will be helpful as long as they're not in Chinese.

    I guess I can just look through the picture gallery for rigs that have the appearance I'm after and ask questions regarding tire sizes and required lift. This may also help decide whether to cut it down or not.

    Anyone got any suggestions for a lift kit brand name with good instructions?

    Arlie
    1993 3500 Crew Cab 4X4
    454 converted to 6.5 TD (siezed)
    5 sp man

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Hayden ID
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    168

    Default performance accessories body lift

    I'm planning to buy from performance accessories.

    Just thought I'd post to see if there's any bad experience with them, or a better manufacturer.

    I decided to do the 3 inch just to give more tire options. Can't think of a good reason not to.

    Arlie
    1993 3500 Crew Cab 4X4
    454 converted to 6.5 TD (siezed)
    5 sp man

  6. #26
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    Montana
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    Arrow

    A 3" (or any lift more than 1") will require fan shroud mods. Though it'll improve hood clearance, front diff clearance (assuming a relocated [lowered] diff) and add trans tunnel clearance.

    More hood clearance might be necessary for the LLY/LBZ, due to increases in the height of the intake & stuff on top of the engine.

    Jim

  7. #27
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    Sep 2003
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    Feeniks, Aridzona
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    Default

    PA seems to be the biggest selling kit out there. I installed A LOT of those back in my 4x4 mechanic days. I got to the point where I could install one myself in about 2 1/2 hours. If it is your first time, plan on a full day. With a 3 inch, you will need to modify the fan shroud. Also watch for stretching wires and fuel lines between the body and frame, and brake lines between the master cyl and frame. You will also need to extend the steering shaft slightly.

    Helpful hint - remove the body mount bolts on one side, but only LOOSEN them on the other side. Nothing sucks worse than jacking up one side of the cab or bed to install the blocks, and have it slide off the mounts! Install the blocks and start all the bolts, then remove the bolts from the other side and jack it up and install the blocks. Keep all the bolts on the cab and bed loose until all the blocks are installed, then you can shove things around to get the cab and bed relaligned with each other.

    You should also consider replacing your body mounts with poly when you do this.
    1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer...new 6.5 in process...diamond block, 18:1's, other goodies...


  8. #28
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    Aug 2002
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    Hayden ID
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    Default body lift

    Jim,
    I might be opening a can of worms here but I'm wondering if raising the engine an inch or so would be worthwhile by relieving differential interference. It would not be hard to modify the brackets. I have the drawings waiting at the machine shop with two versions, one enlarged to allow moving the mount holes down an inch. Since I'm planning a 3 inch body lift, my hood will still be 2 inches higher than without a lift.

    Another idea would be to raise the engine 2". This would still allow an inch of extra tunnel/hood clearance and the fan shroud should fit without a mod.

    it'll improve hood clearance, front diff clearance (assuming a relocated [lowered] diff)
    I wasn't sure what you mean here when you refer to a relocated diff.

    JeepSJ,
    Thanks, that helps.

    Arlie
    Last edited by Arlie; 10-30-2006 at 14:17.
    1993 3500 Crew Cab 4X4
    454 converted to 6.5 TD (siezed)
    5 sp man

  9. #29
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    Feb 2000
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    Montana
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    Arrow

    I was corresponding with a fellow recently who is considering installing a D/A in a 2001 Tahoe. In his case, he's already installed a 3" suspension lift and a 2" body lift. Suspension lifts usually include brackets that lower the front differential by the same amount as the lift in inches. So, lowering the front differential would provide even more clearance between the diff housing and the aluminum crankcase on the engine. The motor mount drawings in the book work with a factory differential location. The drawings also include info that is useful to correctly relocate the through-bolt position to raise/lower the engine (as you've discovered).

    If you raise the engine, you should also raise the trans mount by approximately the same amount to maintain drivetrain angularity. By the way, the 4L80-E trans mount bolts right up to the Allison...

    Jim

  10. #30
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    Aug 2002
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    Hayden ID
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    Default body lift

    Ok I get it. I'm not really interested in a susp lift.
    Would you hazard a guess as to how far one would need to raise the engine to avoid the diff interference requiring oil pan mod and diff brace removal?
    (I won't hold you to anything)
    Arlie
    1993 3500 Crew Cab 4X4
    454 converted to 6.5 TD (siezed)
    5 sp man

  11. #31
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    Feb 2000
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    Arrow

    Would you hazard a guess as to how far one would need to raise the engine to avoid the diff interference requiring oil pan mod and diff brace removal?
    (I won't hold you to anything)
    You'll still have to do the oil pan mod even if the engine is raised (by any reasonable amount). The front diff bracket shown in the photos can probably be left untouched if you deepen the divot in the oil pan (roughly double it), which might reduce oil pan capacity by about a pint or a little more (it's a 10 qt capacity engine).

    Jim

  12. #32
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    Aug 2002
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    Hayden ID
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    Default

    Thanks Jim. My plan will be to raise the engine an inch from your design, lift the body 3 inches and hope I can mod the oil pan to avoid diff bracket removal and be able to close the hood. If necessary I'll get an aftermarket hood like your project truck
    Or put some rad scoop on it that says Dmaxinator (not).
    Arlie
    1993 3500 Crew Cab 4X4
    454 converted to 6.5 TD (siezed)
    5 sp man

  13. #33
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    Aug 2002
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    Hayden ID
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    Default body lift to fit diesel?

    The Performance Accessories catalogue indicates their lifts will not fit a diesel truck. I'm guessing it's something that can be overcome but wondering if anyone knows what does not fit.
    Arlie
    1993 3500 Crew Cab 4X4
    454 converted to 6.5 TD (siezed)
    5 sp man

  14. #34
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    Sep 2003
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    Feeniks, Aridzona
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    Default

    Arlie - got your PM.

    Not sure why they say it won't fit the diesel. There isn't any difference in the body or the mounts between the gasser and diesel. All I can think is maybe the inner fender would hit the turbo when you lift the body? I can't think of any other places where there would be a problem.

    Mark
    1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer...new 6.5 in process...diamond block, 18:1's, other goodies...


  15. #35
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    Arrow

    The Performance Accessories catalogue indicates their lifts will not fit a diesel truck.
    Hydraulic brake booster lines wind up being too short? If that's not it, I can't imagine what the difference is between the gas/diesel.

    Jim

  16. #36
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    Mar 2000
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    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by More Power
    I can't imagine what the difference is between the gas/diesel.
    Could it be block weight?
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
    '93 Chevrolet 6.5TD K2500HD NV4500 Std. Cab Longbed 187K
    '85 Toyota 22R RN60 4x4 Std. Cab Shortbed 178K (Currently retired for rebuild)
    Diesel Page Member #2423

  17. #37
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    Aug 2002
    Location
    Hayden ID
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    Default

    Thanks for the replies.
    I got a reply from customer service at Performance Accessories which clarifies things.
    I don't think it will be an issue with the Dmax. Maybe with the 6.5 but more than anything I think they were covering their butts (understandable with the 6.5). Kinda interesting though.
    Arlie

    Arlie, The major problem with the early diesel engines was that they tend to run hot. When you lift the body, it reduces the effective swept area of the radiator. This increases the chance of overheating. With the engine change you are planning, other issues may surface, such as location of the intercooler for the turbo, radiator size, oil cooler lines, etc. If you cannot find a local dealer for the kit, try Summit Racing, Stylin' Concepts, 4 Wheel Parts, or Quadratec, among numerous other catalog outlets.
    1993 3500 Crew Cab 4X4
    454 converted to 6.5 TD (siezed)
    5 sp man

  18. #38
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    Aug 2002
    Location
    Hayden ID
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    Default Question for Jim.

    Hi Jim,

    I've made some progress on my project and have a question about the washer fluid reservoir. It appears you mounted your fuse block where my reservoir sits on the driver fender well. So did you move your reservoir?

    Another issue, I dont' have an electronic throttle, I guess because it's a 93 with mechanical injection. I guess I'll need one. I note you used a 6.5 version, but maybe I can find a used Dmax unit.

    I'm thinking my mechanical cruise control will also need to be replaced?

    I'm waiting for delivery of a 98 dash and HVAC unit. I have an 05 dash and all the wiring. I'm thinking of using the wiring from the 05, and adapting it to the 98 dash. Does this sound sensible to you?

    Here's a couple things of note. With raising the engine 1" from your design (plus 2" body lift) I do not require any oil pan mod. I also did not need to trim the transfer case. Also, I did not need to relocate the transmission crossmember.

    I did have to cut a hole in the floor pan under the driver seat to get the transfer case in place. There's lots of clearance once it's in but getting it over the crossmember was impossible without a hole cut. No biggy, I'll just weld a patch in. One good thing, I found surface rust needing to be addressed under the floor covering when I pulled it back.


    I'm finding the manual very helpful. Thanks for any further suggestions you may have.

    Arlie
    1993 3500 Crew Cab 4X4
    454 converted to 6.5 TD (siezed)
    5 sp man

  19. #39
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    I haven't installed a windshield washer bottle yet.... The wiring is all there to connect the low fluid level indicator and for the pump. I thought about getting a late 90's or 2001+ washer bottle to try mounting ahead of the driver's side battery - just like the new trucks, but didn't quite get there yet... I haven't driven it in the rain - much...

    A 1994-98 APP electronic accelerator pedal will bolt right onto where your mechanical pedal is now. That's why I spent the time to see whether the 6.5 pedal assy would work (it's easier than fabricating in a GMT-800 pedal assy). The 6.5 pedal assy works well with just a couple wire swaps in the harness.

    The cruise control is electronic, so yes, you'll not need any of the truck's original components - though you should save everything. Someone will need them here in TDP for a repair/retrofit using a 6.5.

    Yes, I'd probably try adapting the new under-dash harness to the 90's dash.

    I needed to relocate the trans crossmember primarily because I was replacing a TH700R4 with an Allison. The 4L80-E you have is longer - apparently about the same as an Allison. Has to be some luck in this...

    Cutting the floor.... That's what I don't understand. I didn't need to, and I didn't use a body lift. What crossmember did you have to "get it over"? The transmission crossmember is easily removed for installation. The torsion bar crossmember stays in place during the R&R.

    Sounds like progress!

    Jim

    PS: I'm moving this thread into the General Diesel forum.

  20. #40
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    Aug 2002
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    Hayden ID
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by More Power
    I haven't installed a windshield washer bottle yet.... The wiring is all there to connect the low fluid level indicator and for the pump. I thought about getting a late 90's or 2001+ washer bottle to try mounting ahead of the driver's side battery - just like the new trucks, but didn't quite get there yet... I haven't driven it in the rain - much...

    A 1994-98 APP electronic accelerator pedal will bolt right onto where your mechanical pedal is now. That's why I spent the time to see whether the 6.5 pedal assy would work (it's easier than fabricating in a GMT-800 pedal assy). The 6.5 pedal assy works well with just a couple wire swaps in the harness.

    The cruise control is electronic, so yes, you'll not need any of the truck's original components - though you should save everything. Someone will need them here in TDP for a repair/retrofit using a 6.5.

    Yes, I'd probably try adapting the new under-dash harness to the 90's dash.

    I needed to relocate the trans crossmember primarily because I was replacing a TH700R4 with an Allison. The 4L80-E you have is longer - apparently about the same as an Allison. Has to be some luck in this...

    Cutting the floor.... That's what I don't understand. I didn't need to, and I didn't use a body lift. What crossmember did you have to "get it over"? The transmission crossmember is easily removed for installation. The torsion bar crossmember stays in place during the R&R.

    Sounds like progress!

    Jim

    PS: I'm moving this thread into the General Diesel forum.
    No washer fluid huh. I'm guessing this isn't your daily driver.
    I'll be looking for a solution to that one.

    So is the cruise built into the electronics so that I dont' need some kind of separate cruise control unit?

    I'm replacing a 5 speed manual tranny, not an automatic. With the Allison in place, the transfer case has to slide over the torsion bar crossmember to mate up. I'm not sure if the TC has a little different shape or what but it would not line up while sitting on the crossmember without a cutout on the driver side. With the cutout it lines up, moves forward off the crossmember and rotates downward away from the floor pan so there's lots of clearance. Maybe the crew cab has a different shape to the floor pan.

    Speaking of the transfer case, I'm hoping someone will discover what years have the "pump wearing through the case" problem and how to deal with it if it affects the 2005 models. You'd think since it showed up in 2001 models there may have been a design change.

    Thanks for the support.

    Arlie
    1993 3500 Crew Cab 4X4
    454 converted to 6.5 TD (siezed)
    5 sp man

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