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Thread: Early Revcon Diesel Swap

  1. #21
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    Sep 2007
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    Ya, I just found a few options. At first, I didn't like the idea of 4 hoses coming out of that area. But if that's the toughest problem I have, I think I'll be OK, as long as I don't have to touch it again. No exageration, I will not be able to touch it without dropping the tranny.

    I've found an 85 NA 6.2, with "30,000" miles on a GoodWrench engine. The down side is that it's about the lowest HP engine of the whole group. The upside, is that it runs very well. I suppose it would be pretty easy to get it going (assuming it fits next to the tranny), then add a turbo (6.5L maybe?) later.

    AN fittings would make me feel better, too.

  2. #22
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    Sep 2007
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    After looking at a few 6.2/6.5 engines, while in the vehicle, I'm not sure there's enough room in the left rear corner where the oil filter is.

    The last 6.5 I looked at, in a 4x4, looked like it had an adapter that allowed the filter to be mounted sideways instead of down. Was it a removable orientation piece?

    Do any of you have pictures that can give me perspective of size. Even better would be pictures with a ruler in it. I need to know if the oil filter gasket face extends below the block, and if so, how much. I also need to know how far the casting for the filter extends past the bellousing case to the left (drivers) side.


    Thanks for the help

  3. #23
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    Sep 2007
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    Jax Florida
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    on the 6.5 in a 4x4 there is a removable plate that turns the filter 90 degrees DMAX said it is 3/4 of an inch drop I would agree I have not measured it though.
    93 GMC Sierra 2500
    6.5L TD 5 spd Manual trans Sold

    97 Chevy Silverado CrewCab K3500 Dually
    6.5L TD Auto


  4. #24
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93GMCSierra View Post
    on the 6.5 in a 4x4 there is a removable plate that turns the filter 90 degrees DMAX said it is 3/4 of an inch drop I would agree I have not measured it though.
    Good. It's removable. From my perspective from under the truck, the adapter looked to be about 3"-4" drop, and about 1" left of the bellhousing casting. The drop was at least teh diameter of the filter housing, as I recall.

    It still looks very promissing. I just wish I could be sure before I spend $3k on a doner vehicle.

  5. #25
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    Sep 2007
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    Update:

    The rear of the Cummins engines, where it mates to the bellhousing, goes down past the center of line of the crank. This is bad. What's worse is that the adapter will add a few inces to the total length from the rear of the bell housing to the timing cover area of the enging. This is a show stopper, becasue my engine mounts are not on the side, but on the front of the engine, and the rear of the tranny. The Cummins is ruled out.

    I've found a Canadian (not that it matters much) '88 Suburban. It's actually in pretty darn good shape, and kinda a shame to pick its bones and sell the rest.

    I'm getting it (will be getting it. It's not in my possession, yet) for a price where I could resell it, if I find the engine. I plan to drive it around a bit to get used to the Chevy diesel oddities. Then I'll pull the engine, and a bunch of other stuff, and put it in the Revcon (Toronado drivetrain).

    It's slow going, but it's going.

  6. #26
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    Nov 2000
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    Beltsville MD USA
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    Don't mean to kill your idea but I thought someone had posted here that the problem with the 6.2/6.5 with the TH425 was the rear exhaust manifold . Seems they had clearance issues or couldn't get a manifold to work with that trans . Hope I'm wrong .

  7. #27
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    Sep 2007
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    I've been driving the Suburban as a daily driver. Anyone considering a conversion, I advise actually driving the donor vehicle for a while. In my case, I'm learning quite a bit about what's really required to make the engine run. I'm also learning quite a bit about things particular to the GM diesels. They're not bad, but they are quite a bit different from the OM352/OM366 I have experiance with.

    With regard to the oil filter placement issue, I'm going under the assumption that the relocator will fit between the block and the TH425. I won't have that answer till I get a lot closet to pulling the engine. Yes, it's true that the LH ehanust might be trouble, but I've been playing with the idea of having the manifold reversed such that it's pointing up, and mounting a turbo on it. The junk yard turbo guys are still debating how it would go with the turbo being spun from one bank, then having the RH, and LH banks "Y" just to the rear of the engine. At the very least, custom headers will fix any exhaust routing issues.

    What I'm looking for is a 3/4" to 1" indicator that I can put in the dash with "Glow Plug" on it. Lord knows I'm pretty good as cheasing together any number of things, but I'm trying to make this conversion as clean as possible. Do any of you know the make/model of a vahicle that might have a removable glow plug light that I can get from the bone yard?
    '02 TDI New Beetle (Man! It's a blast to drive)
    '82 C-20 - The new Revcon Diesel Conversion Doner
    '72 Revcon (doin' my best to put a '93 NA 6.5L in it)

  8. #28
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    Jan 2001
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    Knoxville,Tennessee
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    Not a bad idea driving the donor vihicle. But many purchase wrecked vehicles and don't get the chance.

    Are you talking about running the turbo off just one manifold? You will need both sides pushing the turbo to get the boost out off it.

    Rat Shack for a panel light. Won't have the lettering on it, but would make a clean install.

    Keep us informed on your progress.
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."
    -Patrick Henry


    A5150nut
    2006 K3500 D/A
    94 6.5 4x4 5spd Sold

  9. #29
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    Jan 2005
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    Kazan
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    I have heard that the 6.2's when properly built are underrated.

    That could make a good start for you and if you are not satisfied with the performance (power OR mpg's) you can have it rebuilt, knowing that the conversion work is already done.

    What is your R&P ratio?
    That could be a limiting factor on a 1:1 transmission like the TH.
    What is available for the transverse TH?
    Generally I say taller (lower numerically) is better, but in a motor home you will need a low gear for starting out.

    Also, did your builder use the stock (2.48, 1.48, 1.00) gear ratios?

  10. #30
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    Sep 2007
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    UPDATE:

    I've been playing with the glow plug circuit on the donor vehicle. I've found that the temp sensor is normally open. When I put a jumper in, the glow circuit doesn't work. But we all knew that.

    The next step is to bypass the temp relay that's controlled by the ECU. I think all I have to do is jump the two redish colored wires, and I'm done. I'd like to take that part of the wiring harness with the engine, so I'll track down where those wires originate, and make them truly bypass the ecu garbage.... In theory, of course.

    I'm still working finding a wafer thin oil filter relocator. I havn't tried too hard to find one, but it's about that time.

    No roadblocks, just more tinkering.
    '02 TDI New Beetle (Man! It's a blast to drive)
    '82 C-20 - The new Revcon Diesel Conversion Doner
    '72 Revcon (doin' my best to put a '93 NA 6.5L in it)

  11. #31
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    Sep 2007
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    UPDATE:
    I've been driving the 'Burb around. I've learned a lot. However, Friday, I ran into something I couldn't pass up... A '82 C-20 (pretty sure) "Camper Special" for $500.

    I bought it. I didn't even dicker about the price, really. The truck looks like rolling dog poo, but you know... Electrical wires strug around like noodles (I really hate that). Mechanically, it's not in bad shape. He's got recepits for oil changes, and all the joints have grease gushing from the zerts, for example. It ran pretty darn well, with an estimated mileage of about 200K.

    I'm hoping that it is the '82 block. That's the sweetest block (assuming it's not horrably cracked somewhere) for a motorhome that will tow, so I'm told. The down side is I've read the '82 injectors are different. That's bad, becasue a turbo will go on it one day.

    For $500, I can pick the meat off it's bones, and throw the rest to the Wolfs. Or, maybe I'll put the Olds 455 in it and sell it for $500

    Questions:
    - If I find it is an '82 block, are the heads an issue?
    - Should I consider swapping heads with the '88 Burb? That's a lot of work, but I'll do it, if it's "the right thing to do".
    - It has no blow-by when cold, but still appears to have too much soot at the cold start. IP issue, perhaps?
    - There's an odd sound heard when you take off the oil filler cap. It sounds kinda like it could be the PCV valve equilivent. Now that I think about it, maybe a loose timing chain? I don't think it's the chain, though. I've heard timing chains (on gassers) before.

    I haven't forgotten about the pictures. I'm cleaning the shop this weekend so I'll have a place to lay-out the stuff.
    '02 TDI New Beetle (Man! It's a blast to drive)
    '82 C-20 - The new Revcon Diesel Conversion Doner
    '72 Revcon (doin' my best to put a '93 NA 6.5L in it)

  12. #32
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    Sep 2007
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    Thought I'd catch everyone up on what's going on.

    I found a 6.5L xx599 NA engine for a reasonable price. The compression is between 400-425 psi, and I can see hone marks on the cylinder walls. I did find one score a bit deaper then I'd like to see, but it wasn't too bad. This leads me to believe the engine does have the near 65,000 miles the PO claims it had. I can't think of any reason not to run it like it is.

    The left bank exhaust will be an issue. I think I'm looking for Hummer manifolds, because they exit to the rear and not down.

    I still need to modify the front engine mount. On these coaches, the engine mounts are in front and rear, not on the sides. It's not much trouble, it's just getting to it, and a bit of fab work.

    I have the oil filter relocater, -8 AN hose for the engine and tranny oil lines, the BOP-GM adapter plate, and a few other tid-bits. I still have to drop the old 455 out the bottom, then I can start putting the front end back together.

    I'm trying hard to get it road worthy by May 1st.
    '02 TDI New Beetle (Man! It's a blast to drive)
    '82 C-20 - The new Revcon Diesel Conversion Doner
    '72 Revcon (doin' my best to put a '93 NA 6.5L in it)

  13. #33
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    Sep 2007
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    69

    Default It's not easy

    Here's some pics:

    I have to find a filter relocater that's under 1-3/4". That may be tough. The one I got was perfect in height, but not big enough in diameter. The 6B filter is bigger then the SB filter.

    I need to cut up my oil pan. It's likely to be easier then finding a shorter sump.

    The front engine mount I made (pics later) covers the manual fuel pump. I'll try to find a different type, but as it is now, I may have to pull the pin out and use an electric pump. I'm thinking that I could put a 5psi oil pressure sensor. That should stop the pumping if something bad should happen.

    I guess I'm cutting the oil pan, and looking for a thin relocator that's a larger diameter.

    Any thoughts?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    '02 TDI New Beetle (Man! It's a blast to drive)
    '82 C-20 - The new Revcon Diesel Conversion Doner
    '72 Revcon (doin' my best to put a '93 NA 6.5L in it)

  14. #34
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    Sep 2007
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    I've run into a show stopper. The diesel direct drive and gear driven starter hit the right half-shaft flange. The starters are about 1" too long.

    It's too easy to miss something like this in conversion projects. I'm having to dig deep to find a solution. Basically, I have 3 options:

    1} Rework the right axle shafts. - As it is now, the half shaft bolts to a flange on a shaft that goes under the oil pan (pics to come). While this is an option, it will take a long while to research what's required to find a shorter half shaft. Unless... I could have someone make me a longer axle shaft that goes under the oil pan, and have the stock half-shaft shortened. That's a pain, though. It means the CV joint will have to be rebuilt and not replaced. That's a drag.

    2) Find a diesel starter that's 1" shorter. I have no idea where to start looking for that. There must be one out there somewhere.

    3) Have a flex plate made that's the Olds diameter and tooth count but with the diesel bolt patterns and weighted for the 6.2/6.5. I suppose it could happen. It's just a matter of finding someone that would do it. However, after it's done, I'm not sure the Olds starter would turn it over.

    This is a tough one. I could use an idea or two.

    Thanks,
    '02 TDI New Beetle (Man! It's a blast to drive)
    '82 C-20 - The new Revcon Diesel Conversion Doner
    '72 Revcon (doin' my best to put a '93 NA 6.5L in it)

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    Feeniks, Aridzona
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    1,114

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    Try Powermaster for the starter. They make a high-torque starter for the 6.2/6.5. I don't know if it is any smaller than stock, but it would not hurt to ask.
    1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer...new 6.5 in process...diamond block, 18:1's, other goodies...


  16. #36
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    Apr 2001
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    CA
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    Arrow

    The gear reduction starters are significantly smaller (and lighter!) than direct drives. You may get lucky, if it's small enough in the right place.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  17. #37
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    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
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    Had the same problem with the Buick conversion, though with me it was the cross member. Easy fix...notched out the cross member.

    Before that tho, I went through the same thought process. All of the 6.2/6.5 starters are the same length. They are made to use the factory front hanger. Even the geared starters are the same length, just smaller in diameter.

    A local rebuild shop here said he could re-work a starter from a big block Chevy to produce the power but that would have cost a bunch. Not to mention you would have to do two and keep one for a spare. Not something that any old re-builder is willing to do.

    You could also try your local speed shop. Seems a number of firms are making high torque starters for the high compression gassers.

    Bill
    91 Buick Roadmaster/Avant 6.2 NA conversion (gone but not forgotten)
    94 Cadillac Fleetwood (sold)
    08 Aerolight 23TT
    06 Vortec Max Silverado CC SB (sold)
    10 Avalanche (electronic quagmire but love the truck)

  18. #38
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    Sep 2007
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    This is tough. As mentioned, it would be wise to have 2 units. That's something around $1000 for the starters. I'm going to stick it out though. I really believe this is the best engine for a motorhome with a 10500 GVW.

    I have leads on a few starter gurus in the area. I have reason to believe someone can make a starter for me, but I'll have to dig a bit deeper into my wallet.

    After that's done, I'll have to modify the oil pan such that there's about 1" clearance for the front half of the counterweights. Is that an issue if it still drains to the sump? Also, I'm having to cut into the sump area. I will be able to keep more oil then stock if I include the filters, oil lines, external coolers, and such. I just have to make sure that the pickup tube never sucks air or more turbulance then stock. That will be tough, becasue I can't see in there when it's running.
    - Can I assume all is OK if the oil pressure is in spec?

    I've noticed the flywheel rubbing the bellhousing becasue it's about 1.5" bigger. I'll have to grind/file it down a bit to make clearance. I only need a fraction of an inch to make it work.

    There's only 1.5" clearance where the oil filter goes. I'm trying my best to find a relocater, but all I've found are for the smaller diameter ones (for the SB). I may have to block it off and pit the filter in line with the cooler hoses. It's less then ideal, but it should work.

    Thanks for the support. It means a lot when things like this pop up.

    EDIT: I have both starters in hand. That's been a great help in trying to find room. I wish the guru can find a stock armature and case that will do the job. That means I can get rebuild kits from other vehicle applications. It sounds easy.
    '02 TDI New Beetle (Man! It's a blast to drive)
    '82 C-20 - The new Revcon Diesel Conversion Doner
    '72 Revcon (doin' my best to put a '93 NA 6.5L in it)

  19. #39
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    Apr 2001
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    CA
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    In regards to your oil pan clearance issues.......

    There's no rule or law that says you have to use the original pan, as is. If it's really tight, relocate it. If you have plenty of room elsewhere, fab a dry sump setup, with the sump and filter(s) somewhere else. With that, you can choose the capacity and location, and clearance won't be an issue.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  20. #40
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by DmaxMaverick View Post
    In regards to your oil pan clearance issues.......

    There's no rule or law that says you have to use the original pan, as is. If it's really tight, relocate it. If you have plenty of room elsewhere, fab a dry sump setup, with the sump and filter(s) somewhere else. With that, you can choose the capacity and location, and clearance won't be an issue.
    IIRC, it's going to be real tight to the middle journal then it can drop to the pickup level. I like using the current pickup cause "if it aint broke..." By my calculations, I'll loose about 3/4 of a quart in the pan, but I'll gain 2 quarts in extra tubing, coolers, and stuff. The end of the dip stick will be very close to the front drop point. It's going to look more like a valley pan in front, but it should do fine. I guess the oil may spash from the pan back to the cylinder walls... I can't see how that's an issue.
    '02 TDI New Beetle (Man! It's a blast to drive)
    '82 C-20 - The new Revcon Diesel Conversion Doner
    '72 Revcon (doin' my best to put a '93 NA 6.5L in it)

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