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Thread: 6.2/6.5 assembly tips

  1. #1
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    Default 6.2/6.5 assembly tips

    Please, lets keep this thread clear of discussions and save for build tips, part numbers etc. It will be easier to navigate that way. If you have some good numbers or info, please post them for all to use.

    Missy

    Hello fellow GM diesel lovers

    Well I am taking this time during my DaHooooley rebuild to capture some tech tips and get them in pix and make comment.

    The pix will follow but are pretty self explanatory and have notes where needed.

    One of the biggies is to be sure the rear cam plug is sealed well.
    Apply permatex to the plug and drive in with a suitable driver and a hammer. (large socket that just fits inside the lip on the plug)

    Be sure the lip is just flush with the back of the block.

    Now for anyone who has ever had one leak or worse yet COME OUT
    I prefer to do two things.
    I drill and tap two 6/32 holes in the plug boss and insert two little button head allen screw with a washer to catch the edge of the plug.

    I also do a covering of the joint with JB weld

    Having seen what happens when they leak or come out I will always do this.

    A large oil leak from the bellhousing leaves a huge sick HOLE in the pit of your gut

    This procedure takes little time and make it bullet proof.

    The holes only need to be driiled about 1/4 inch into the boss and just close enough to the plug that the washer fully catches the rim of the plug.

    Next is the Plasti gauge procedure.

    With the upper bearing shells in place, lay the crank carefully into the block and position so the counter weights are as far out of the way as possible.

    NOW resist all temptation to turn the crank as there is NO LUBE ON IT.

    Next apply a very light smear of oil to the main journals (just enought to make a smudge)

    Take a small piece of the Plasti Gauge material and lay on the main journal.

    Set the caps on and tap into place. Torque the bolts down to at least 75% of the value.

    Remove the caps

    Now have a look at the smashed plasti gauge.

    We can see using the little paper sleave graphics that the bearing clearance is right about .002" possibly a couple tenths more.

    This is not rocket science and works easy and fast.

    Be sure to check all the mains

    We will do the rods later on as we get that far.

    Never assume that all is well, Check all the bearings ALWAYS

    Now scrape the plasti gauge off using your fingernail. Wipe the journal clean and take the crank out.

    Lubriplate 105 is the real deal for a build and is the choice of campions.
    It stays where you put it and does not run out but washes out with the oil when the engine is fired off.

    Lube the upper inserts and set the crank back into the block.

    Lube and insert the rear main seal into the crank with the seal lip facing the inside of the engine.

    Align the back edge of the seal with the inner edge of the little chamfer on the block and cap.

    You can lift the crank slightly to do this. Be sure the seal is square and straight all around.

    Apply High tack as shown in the pix (Lightly) this will assure an oil tight seal between the cap and the block.

    Apply 105 to the inserts in the caps. (Be sure to remove any left over plasti gauge first)


    Set the main caps on one at a time and snug the bolts.
    Be sure the rear seal is even all around. DO NOT LUBE THE OUTER RIM OF THE SEAL. This will assure a good fit between the ribs of the seal and the block and cap.

    Leave the bolts on number 3 (Thrust main) just barely snug

    Once all the rest of the mains are snug use a large rubber dead blow hammer or a wood mallet to smack the crank for and aft to seat the thrust main cap and even it up.

    Now start the tightening procedure.

    I like to do the center main first and do the inside bolts to 50# and the outer to about 35#

    Do all the mains and check to be sure at every change in torque that the crank will turn by hand.

    Next bring all the bolts up to about 75# inner and 50# outer
    Then do the final torque to 110# inner and 100# outer (12MM bolt blocks new blocks use lighter torque on the 10mm outers)

    HINT that will SAVIOR A$$

    After each main is brought to final torque, mark the cap with a sharpy pen.

    Now this may seem stupid !! but believe me, when the phone rings and you come back later, DUHHHHHHHHH where was I ?????????????

    The ones with the marks you know are good to go.

    This is also to be done as each rod cap is brought to torque.
    Mark it on the pad on the bottom.

    Here is a shot of the nice finish of the crank.

    This is the crank that came from the engine that cracked the block.
    I hand pollished it with some 600 grit emery that I ran over a sharp piece of steel to knock the sharp off the paper

    Very nice finish with only smudges from handling. Crank may have 75K miles not sure.

    You can look at the pix and pretty well see whats what here.

    The cam was installed prior to the procedures above and the clearance checked for and aft with the cam plug

    (make sure you have about 1/32" of back clearance so you dont chew the cam plug)

    Use blue locktite on the cam plate retaining bolts.
    Bolt comes out its game over.

    More later as the build progresses.

    I hope to document the whole build this way so it will provide reference for others.
    I will make this thread a "sticky" to keep it handy.

    Just a note here. You can see the inserted center main bolt holes well in the one pix

    Best

    Robyn
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  2. #2
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    More Pix of the build
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  3. #3
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    Default

    Thanks for the write up. I am expecting my new pistons very soon and will be going through the same process as you.
    Leroy
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    We sell pmd extension cables and the Flight systems PMD or the new Stanadyne PMD with available 7 year warranty.
    Turbo Boost Bolts, engine oil cooler kits and lots of 6.5 turbo diesel parts. Check out the web site
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  4. #4
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    C'Mon over and y'all can help me stuff this sucker back into the beast

    This was not my choice of years to do a rebuild for sure. $$$$$$$$$$$$$ in short supply right now but at least I will know what I have now.

    Plus I will be shed of some oil leaks and other anoying crap.

    I will post the fitting of the rings, rods and other parts too as I get to it.

    The final go round and start up, I may do on video and post it on my web server so all can see.

    Later

    Robyn
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    For the rear bearing cap seal on the block you're actually supposed to use an anerobic, the GM stuff is red like the hi-tack. Is the hi-Tack an anerobic?

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    Nope just sticky as all get out.

    I have used High tack on several of these and had zero issues.

    The anerobic stuff is spendy and most of us dont have a can lying around.

    Just gotta use the High tac sparingly is all
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  7. #7
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    More good stuff

    This last weekend saw the timing gears go in but little else.
    I did however yank the heads off the floor and start to clean and ready them to go back on.

    Reason, Checkbook is sucking into a vacuum.

    Heads looked good but upon close inspection I found some cracks through a couple exhaust seats that went out onto the firedeck.

    No dice baby, notta gonna fly this way.

    SOOOOOOOOOO off to dig up some heads.

    Found a set of rebuilt heads over at the coast. OH YEAH BUDDY.

    Well now, good used stuff can be found BUTTTTTTTTTT ya gotta be careful and know what your looking at.

    The seller agreed happily to allow Li'll Ol me to pull the valves out one at a time and look things over.

    I also took my makita with the big cup brush too.

    The first head looked ok with only a small crack on a couple seats. No biggy.

    The seats and the valve faces all reflected a recent shopping so the story fit together.
    Heads came off a 6.5 that had seen the top end done and then checked a rod only a few months later.

    Now
    Onto head number two.

    Get it on the bench and soon notice that the precup markings are different.

    One head has a single small square stamp on the cups and the other has a single round stamp on the cups.

    Now ya gotta have all the little critters the same. DONT EVER MIX cups.

    They can vary a lot from one marking to the other.

    There are Diamond marks (Late 6.5 heads) by what I can find this is supposed to be a universal cup to replace all applications.

    The Single dot is a 6.5 as is the single square

    There is also a 2 small square dots with a large T
    The fire port is nearly as big as the Diamond cup

    The inside of these different cups vary in CC capacity too.

    There are cups with no markings at all
    Some early 6.2 cups have very small ports and also the shape of the port is totally different than the 6.5 stuff.

    Here is a pix I took of several cups I now have.

    The diamond one came from my DaHooooley engine and has cracks in the corners of the port that go all the way to the fire ring on the gasket.

    The T cup is from a set I found that will go in the good heads I got.
    The 1 dot and 1 square are from the heads I got at the coast

    The one at the bottom is a J code 6.2 cup

    The inside is very small compared to the 6.5 cups.

    Any time you yank heads off an unknown engine/rig be sure to varify that all the cups are the same.

    Having a mixed bag can effect harmonics in the engine due to uneven power strokes

    Any type of these cups can be used as long as they are used in sets.

    The large port cups are more often found in Federal emission engines such as the F and the light duty 6.5's will likely have smaller ported cups as will Cal. emission engines.

    There seems to be little info available readily as to what was used on what engine code and when and why.

    Hope this is useful to you folks.

    Missy Robyn
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    Head tech
    OK
    Now that the heads are all steam cleaned and I can get close to them.

    Time to pull all the valves, springs, shims and other goodies out and tagem and baggem.

    These heads will be reused as is and with no machine work.
    Its important to keep all the parts as they were when they came apart.

    In the pictures you can see the parts stack with a zip tie through the set.

    This is the exhaust springs and parts.

    The rotators always go to the exhaust valves.

    Keep the spring shims where they were.

    Usually on a stock engine with factory heads there will be one hardened shim under the spring.

    This stops the spring from chewing the head casting .

    These heads have a mixture of 1 and 2 shims per setup to allow for the seat grinding that was done.

    This will keep the assembled height of the spring correct.

    Now the valve seats and ports have been all cleaned with a air powered cup brush.

    The precup pockets are all cleaned and the sharp corners where the cup seat are all cleaned and free of carbon and crud

    Now Notice the Pix of the valve with the carbon.

    These engines will form huge envelopes or carbon on the backside of the intake valves over time.

    These heads although not run very long had a large amount of carbon.

    This is likely due to bad rings and a great amount of blowby. The intake ports were very wet with oil residue.

    The story on the engine these heads came from seemed believable BUTTTTT ya just have to take everything for what its worth.

    So far the seats and the valves look fine and will go right back to work.

    The next step is to get the heads into the shop tomorrow and have them heated in hot water and pressure tested with 50+PSI air to check for any leaks that may not be obvious.

    The heads show no cracks that are of issue. I did find a couple very tiny "Checks" on a couple exhaust seats.

    Not worth bolting these on without testing.

    The cost of the gasket and Bolts is about $60 per head.

    Not to mention the work to get things back apart again.

    Once the heads come back from the shop (with a clean bill of health) it will be time to install new stem seals on the exhaust guides (teflon press on seal caps) and new Orings.

    A little lube on the stems and back in they go.

    Button things back up and good to go.


    Just a side note here

    A 6.2 or 6.5 that has a lot of miles and has sat for a long period can see these large carbon heaps on the intake valves fall off and go into the cylinder.

    This is a nasty situation and will lock the engine up tight.

    These carbon cones that form on the valve can be very large. The amount of room on top of the piston is very small and if an engine starts and has this stuff fall into the cylinder, it will hammer like hell.

    Any used engine that has sat a long time should at the least have the intake removed and the ports and such inspected for this issue.

    If the problem exists the heads need to come off and the intake valves removed and cleaned.

    This can do serious damage to the engine if allowed to get into the cylinders and hammer things.

    A large enough piece can hold a valve open to the point that the piston swats it and then the problem is even more serious.

    Piston damage, rod and crank damage. OHHHHHH My


    More coming soon

    Robyn
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  9. #9
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    Used Block
    Warning

    For anyone rebuilding a 6.2/6.5 engine.
    Many of these blocks are up to 27 years old now (6.2) and 17 years on the 6.5

    There is a whole lot that can and does happen to these chunks of Iron in this amount of time.

    My reason for writing this is simple.

    Yesterday the world came to an end as far as My current 6.5 block that was going into the DaHooooley.

    Turns out that the "Good High Mile" used block, had sometime in the past been decked on one side and not the other.

    Upon inspecting the thing when purchased it needed decking.

    The machine shop I used agreed, and WE decked it .015" on the LH side and about the same on the RH side.

    Under normal circumstances this would have been fine and a .010" Thicker gasket would have been fine.

    Not until I started assembly did it become aparent that the RH side had been decked twice.

    So now the pistons on the RH side stick above the deck .030" (approx)

    Way too far to be used.

    There are many issues that come to play here.
    Compresion, valve trian dimensions etc.

    Bottom line.

    Check any and all blocks before you spend $$$ on machine work.

    If its a bare block, drop in a set of front and rear mains, the crank and a piston and rod assembly, one on each side and measure the protrusion above the deck.

    Be sure you buy with care and get it in writing that the thing is useable.


    Best

    Robyn
    Last edited by Robyn; 07-05-2009 at 19:49. Reason: addition
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  10. #10
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    More tech tips
    Here are some current pix of the timing gears and chain

    These are very self explanatory.

    The one thing though being, the timing marks on the Pump drive gear also align with the crank gear when being assembled.

    Once the gears and the chain are on the crank can be turned to place the pump drive gear with the mark to the top of the engine.

    The actual pump gear can then have its mark aligned with the drive gear.

    The bolts that hold the gears to the cam and to the pump need to be retained with Blue Loctite.

    If these come out its GAME OVER and parts will crash and break

    Another item is keeping the project clean while its being worked on.

    A plastic garden/ trashbag works sweet to slide over the little beast after a session to keep dust and other crap out.

    Missy
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  11. #11
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    More good stuff

    Many Pix
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  12. #12
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    More pix of the assembly tips
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  13. #13
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    The build is finally progressing well.

    The custom gasket for the one side should be here late this week.

    Here is one final Pix that many will find useful
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    MORE part numbers of needed and at times hard to find parts with pictures

    The turbo Boost hose
    Oil Cooler quick connect at the block
    Turbo drain tube connector hose at the block flange
    Heater quick connect (Steel unit from NAPA that will not break off.


    Robyn
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  15. #15
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    A note here on the heater quick connectors that come from the factory.

    These little Bast***s will normally break off when you try to remove them.

    The factory ones are POT metal and have an orange silicone dry seal compound on the threads.

    These will bake in to the point of almost being welded

    A word to the WISE here.

    Breaking one off is not a big deal. Forget the easy out, Taint happnin Y'all

    The only way to easily get these out is to break the sucker off and then cut it out with a die grinder and a carbide bur.

    Grind on three sides (triangle inside the hole) just to the point that you can see the threads starting to show (just barely now) and then using a capping chisel and a small hammer knock the pieces loose and out of the crossover.

    I did the one on the DaHooley Xover in about 15 minutes from start to finish. ( this included running a 1/2" pipe tap into the threads to chase them clean)

    The task can be done without destroying the Xover or the hole.

    Install the new NAPA coupler with the sealant it comes with or if bare use a little silicone or even permatex 2 will suffice on the threads.

    The new little creature will seal fine.

    Please dont run out and buy a new Xover just because the old connector broke off.

    DO remove the Xover from the engine to remove the fitting though,as there will be a fair amount of shavings and pieces that you dont need in the cooling system.

    Always run a tap in to clean the threads. (Just enough to clean, dont go gung ho here )


    Best

    Robyn
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  16. #16
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    Cometic Head gaskets

    http://www.cometic.com/

    This is the link to cometic gasket company

    These guys can sell you a custom head gasket for your 6.2/6.5 in almost
    any thickness you might need.

    Their spec is for "compressed thickness"

    A stock Felpro head gasket is about .040"-.045" thick after its compressed.

    The stock cometic is .045" thick

    I ordered a .070" thick gasket for one side.

    If you have a block that needs decking more than the law allows, these folks can help with the gasket.

    Their gaskets are not cheap, but can certainly save an otherwise good block.

    Robyn
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  17. #17
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    Pix of the new custom Cometic gasket

    Note the Orientation "R" on the gasket.

    Thes gaskets have R and L and are designed without the water port up front that allows coolant to sit next to the head casting, resulting in the electrolysis that forms around the number 1 and 2 fire rings.

    The Cometic has the rear passage to allow coolant to flow from the block to the head only

    The layers are riveted together in four places two top and two bottom.

    Not a cheap option but this is definately better than scrapping the block.

    Missy
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  18. #18
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    Here are some nice tips on the lifters, guide plates and guide retainers

    Pre filling the lifters with ATF as shown is a good idea. The lifter will have oil in it and be ready to go.

    The guide plates should be centered on the lifters before tightening the retainer.

    The retainer is tightened down to torque.

    Once all the lifters are in, manually roll the engine over with a wrench on the crank to be sure nothing binds.

    Any binding of the lifters must be corrected. (Not a common issue though)

    Now The issue of getting the pushrods in correctly.

    One end of all 6.2/6.5 pushrods will have a copper colored ball.
    Generally this will be well worn by the time you get to it though.

    The pix shows a faint copper ring around the ball, thats all you need to see to be able to correctly insert the pushrods

    The copper colored ball goes to the rockers. NO EXCEPTION

    I have yanked apart a lot of these engines and found a real mixed bag of how the pushrods were installed

    Do it wrong and the ball will go away and your valve train will fail.

    Enjoy

    Robyn
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    More pictures
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  20. #20
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    Robyn, thanks for going to the trouble to post all of these pics and explanations! I've never done anything much below the valve covers and your posts have been very helpful in giving me more confidence to venture down there. Add in the DP how-to book and I'll be off and running. I'm still trying to find some free weekends to throw some head gaskets onto my Sub in preparation of putting on that hard-to-come-by ATS turbo of mine.

    You sure you're not going to be in NC anytime soon??
    Mark Chapman DP member #653;
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    1963 wife, one owner, average mileage for the age but in excellent shape, a keeper
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    1995 son, sports model, very fast & peppy, time will tell on durability and maintenance costs

    "Grease is good"

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