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Thread: Trouble shooting - front end shake

  1. Default Trouble shooting - front end shake

    Over the course of this year, my dually has developed a shake in the steering wheel when driving between 35 to 45 MPH, regardless if the truck is empty or loaded and the problem is more noticable during turns than straight ahead and it is a intermintent problem that on occasion does not occur however, it happens more often than not.

    I have replaced the steering gear box, I have had all 7 rims and tires checked for true and balance and have tried rotating tires, and yet the problem persists. approximately 4 years ago it was aligned and the tie rods replaced, any ideas what else could cause this shake? thanks...
    Respectfully,


    Robert P.


    1999 Chev Silverado C3500 Crew cab dually long bed 4x2 - 6.5L Diesel, 4L80E / 4.10 gear.

    4" Exhaust
    Kennedy gauges
    Kennedy Inter cooler
    TD-MAX Boost Controller
    U.S. Diesel Performance ECM
    U.S. Diesel 40HP injector Kit
    150,000+ miles

    Pulling - 2013 Montana Mountaineer 346LBQ fifth wheel (12840# empty)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    242

    Smile front end shake

    Have you recheck the idler assmebly if it would be loose it could be causing that . Does it make a differance with or with brake apllication possible wraped rotor when the brakes released less noticable with slight or low brake application you feel it.
    good luck
    2003 CHEVY 4500 DURAMAX/ALLISON 14'
    SERVICE CRANE BODY 16,500 LBS 14.5 MPG
    1998 K3500 SRW CREW CAB TRANSPLANTED 6.5TD ELECTROINC INTO, HEATH COMPUTER, 40+HP INJECTORS, 4" EXHAUST, VACUUM ELEMTINATOR ON TURBO,UPGRADED COOLING WITH ALL GM PARTS,NO VACUUM PUMP, SST OIL COOLER LINES MADE LOCALY FRACTION OF THE COST, 3" TOURBO/BOOST GAUSGE ALL IN ONE, ADDED GEAR DRIVE GREAT HELP WITH STARTING TIME DOESN'T JUMP AROUND ANY MORE, INTERCOOLER 3" INLET AND OUTLET COOLER 12x24x4, ALSO ADDED MANDEL BENT CROSS OVER, HAD TRUCK REPAINTED AND OPUT ON ALUM FLAT BED

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Palm Beach, Florida
    Posts
    1,816

    Default Shake

    I would check the front dualie wheel adapters for trueness, then check hub/bearing assemblies.

    Not having a dualie I do have a 2500 4x4 and have changed out frt hub/bearings well before 100k
    99 GMC SUB, 2500, 4x4, 6.5 TD (F) #H32 enhanced blk, Phaser timing set, B&D IC, 3" ATS exh, K&N w/prefilter, 4WD NVG 246, 4L80E kevlar Transgo off road/tow mods/B&M supercooler, 14 FF MagTec w/locker 3.42:1, 9.25" IFS frt/diff 3.42:1 w/ARB locker, AutoMeter Boost & pre-turbo pyro meter, 12,000 lb hydro winch, Warn classic bumper w/brushguard & diesel scoop, Max E-torq Stage 3, hi pop inj, oil bypass sys, on board air comp for front ARB locker & tire inflation, DynaView driving/auto-cornering lts, DZ nerfs, A/T 285/75/16 SilentArmor 3750 lb rated on 3750 lb rated Alcoa, 3 IP drivers 2 r spares.

  4. Default

    The shake feels if it is dampened when applying the brake, I have not had the ball joints, pitman or idler arm changed and last check a year ago from the local heavy vehicle mechanic who checked it and the alignment states they appeared to be fine back then, I also am running class "D" tires...
    Respectfully,


    Robert P.


    1999 Chev Silverado C3500 Crew cab dually long bed 4x2 - 6.5L Diesel, 4L80E / 4.10 gear.

    4" Exhaust
    Kennedy gauges
    Kennedy Inter cooler
    TD-MAX Boost Controller
    U.S. Diesel Performance ECM
    U.S. Diesel 40HP injector Kit
    150,000+ miles

    Pulling - 2013 Montana Mountaineer 346LBQ fifth wheel (12840# empty)

  5. Unhappy update - still need help!!!

    Well I am still trying to figure out this mystery, to date since starting this thread, I have replaced the steering gear box, idler arm and all of the front bearings. I have also had all 7 rims and tires checked for balance, trueness and rotation and they all pass. The rotors I purchased new approx four years ago. The idler arm I just replaced this past week and since then the shake is 80% gone compared to before replacement.

    BEFORE replacement, the shake was intermittent between 30-45 MPH didn't matter if i was accelerating, slowing or cruising, nor did it matter if I applied the brakes, lastly, the shake was more prevalent at times during turns (S-curves) at these speeds or when towing my RV. Moreover, the shake could be felt throughout the truck and not just in the steering wheel.

    Now SINCE the replacement of the bearings and idler arm, the shake is very minor and only in the vicinity of 40 MPH, and slightly more prevalent during deceleration / braking, and at times, during turns (S-curves) at 40 MPH.

    Now when pulling the RV, both before and after the replacement of the idler arm / bearings... During accelerating up from stop through the 40 MPH range, the shake at times (intermittently), will get so bad that the whole truck shakes so badly (including the steering wheel) that I have no choice but to stop the truck quickly to maintain control. This has never happened at speed or on deceleration / braking with the RV because when this occurs at this severity, i cannot get through 40MPH. although stopping and then starting again, will diminish the shake but not alleviate it...

    The truck has 150,000 Miles on it, and i am considering having the upper/lower ball joints replaced, tie rods and possibly the center link, even though the local shop doesn't find anything wrong with them, I am also entertaining purchasing an after market steering stabilizer shock absorber from JC Whitney (I don't know if it will help) like those seen on most 4X4's.

    I have had one mechanic advise me that if the hydro booster / power steering pump go bad (weak pressure from the PS pump)... will let the steering gear box get sloppy. And he advised to replace the power steering pump and get rid of the hydro boost and add a large vacuum pump and a vacuum assist to my brakes in lieu of the hydro boost assist it has now.

    Either way, I am looking in the neighborhood of $500 or so, maybe more to rebuild the front end steering components or go with a rather drastic departure from original equipment on a 'maybe' something that I am not comfortable with.

    Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on how to solve this puzzle? its driving me nuts and possibly broke
    Respectfully,


    Robert P.


    1999 Chev Silverado C3500 Crew cab dually long bed 4x2 - 6.5L Diesel, 4L80E / 4.10 gear.

    4" Exhaust
    Kennedy gauges
    Kennedy Inter cooler
    TD-MAX Boost Controller
    U.S. Diesel Performance ECM
    U.S. Diesel 40HP injector Kit
    150,000+ miles

    Pulling - 2013 Montana Mountaineer 346LBQ fifth wheel (12840# empty)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    242

    Cool shake

    it this shake only in the streeing wheel have you checked the driveline it has a 2 piece driveline is the carrier bearing good if it is loose it will cause a speed vibration also check all the u joints as most of those trucks have no greaseable joints maybe one is stiff causing the drive line to vibrate and when you brake it then not under a load so it doesn't vibrate as much, easy to check won't cost you anything to drop shaft and check just a little time

    the idea of replaceing the hydro boost with vacuum set up not wise idea IMO that just added more things to break on the truck you can not buy at any local parts place or dealer

    just an idea
    good luck
    2003 CHEVY 4500 DURAMAX/ALLISON 14'
    SERVICE CRANE BODY 16,500 LBS 14.5 MPG
    1998 K3500 SRW CREW CAB TRANSPLANTED 6.5TD ELECTROINC INTO, HEATH COMPUTER, 40+HP INJECTORS, 4" EXHAUST, VACUUM ELEMTINATOR ON TURBO,UPGRADED COOLING WITH ALL GM PARTS,NO VACUUM PUMP, SST OIL COOLER LINES MADE LOCALY FRACTION OF THE COST, 3" TOURBO/BOOST GAUSGE ALL IN ONE, ADDED GEAR DRIVE GREAT HELP WITH STARTING TIME DOESN'T JUMP AROUND ANY MORE, INTERCOOLER 3" INLET AND OUTLET COOLER 12x24x4, ALSO ADDED MANDEL BENT CROSS OVER, HAD TRUCK REPAINTED AND OPUT ON ALUM FLAT BED

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbird2
    it this shake only in the steering wheel
    Its mostly in the steering wheel but the more violent the shake becomes more it is fel throughout the front of the truck...
    Respectfully,


    Robert P.


    1999 Chev Silverado C3500 Crew cab dually long bed 4x2 - 6.5L Diesel, 4L80E / 4.10 gear.

    4" Exhaust
    Kennedy gauges
    Kennedy Inter cooler
    TD-MAX Boost Controller
    U.S. Diesel Performance ECM
    U.S. Diesel 40HP injector Kit
    150,000+ miles

    Pulling - 2013 Montana Mountaineer 346LBQ fifth wheel (12840# empty)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    30

    Default

    i have the same exact problem on my 94 suburban 2500 4x4. I replaced the shocks, steering stabilizer, and greased the drivetrain, ball joints, and tie rods and the effect was minimized but still there. Interesting that you mentioned the power steering pump, because mine is going out. Will update when I replace it. By the way remanufactured ps pumps are like 100-150 at stores and online...40 without the resovoir, but you have to press it back in yourself.


    let us know your progress!

    --Charles
    www.youtube.com/dieselsailor
    94 Sub 2500 4X4, 130k 3.73,19.5mpg hwy 12.5mpg tow,oil/diesel leaks fixed,(3-07),ES9000 Pro Comp Shocks!(4-07),amplifier on order!(4-07),New Lift Pump!(5-07),Ram-air/cold air intake!(5-07),Optima Red tops! (5-07),0 gauge battery/alternator custom lines! (6-07),New condenser & harmonic balancer (7/07),New rims and tires-265/75/r16! (7/07),Sound system done! (8/07),Alternator blown from sound system (8/07),160 amp alternator on order!

    Planning: cooling upgrade, 4" exhaust, injectors, tow chip, triple gauge pillar, and gps in-dash.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Yukon Canada
    Posts
    1,612

    Default

    Hi
    I have had the same problem on my tow truck.It is a little diferent than your truck,its a 80 1 ton 4x4,soild front axle.It gets so bad that the whole truck shakes around the same speed as you describe.Each time this has presented itself i have replaced the streeing stabilizer and the problem went away.This last time it was doing it while i still had my winter tires on the front,switched tires and balanced them,still would shake changed stabilizer,shake gone.When it shakes crazy,i could sometimes slow down,make some radical left-right turns and it would sometimes go away.Disclaimer only make the radical turns unloaded and on an empty road with no trafic
    Good Luck
    Thomas
    90 Chev 3500 c/c 4x4,6.2na,400 auto,4:10 gears.DSG Timing gears,main girdle, isspro tach, pyro,boost,oil and trany temp.Dual Tstats, High volume peninsular pump,on shelf, Custom turbo and intercooler 85%complete. Change of plans for the dually, it's going to get a Cummins. Both trucks are Blue 90 4x4 crews

  10. Default

    Thanks for the input, ill let you know when i address it with some new front end parts, right now its at the shop for the injectors, intercooler and a FSD cooler...
    Respectfully,


    Robert P.


    1999 Chev Silverado C3500 Crew cab dually long bed 4x2 - 6.5L Diesel, 4L80E / 4.10 gear.

    4" Exhaust
    Kennedy gauges
    Kennedy Inter cooler
    TD-MAX Boost Controller
    U.S. Diesel Performance ECM
    U.S. Diesel 40HP injector Kit
    150,000+ miles

    Pulling - 2013 Montana Mountaineer 346LBQ fifth wheel (12840# empty)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    30

    Default

    wow seems like a lot of people have the same problems. Look forward to answers! bump...
    www.youtube.com/dieselsailor
    94 Sub 2500 4X4, 130k 3.73,19.5mpg hwy 12.5mpg tow,oil/diesel leaks fixed,(3-07),ES9000 Pro Comp Shocks!(4-07),amplifier on order!(4-07),New Lift Pump!(5-07),Ram-air/cold air intake!(5-07),Optima Red tops! (5-07),0 gauge battery/alternator custom lines! (6-07),New condenser & harmonic balancer (7/07),New rims and tires-265/75/r16! (7/07),Sound system done! (8/07),Alternator blown from sound system (8/07),160 amp alternator on order!

    Planning: cooling upgrade, 4" exhaust, injectors, tow chip, triple gauge pillar, and gps in-dash.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    SE Wisconsin
    Posts
    488

    Default

    I would look at your upper ball joints and upper control arm bushings.
    1993 K3500 - Peninsular 18:1 engine, marine injectors, high capacity cooling, AL Core Radiator, 3" DP and 4" exhaust, ISSPRO Gauges, Girdle, AMSOIL Dual Oil Filter System, 1997 Air Filter(trashed the K&N), 395K on Body, 165k on engine.
    1997 GMC Savana - 6.5 TD
    1966 CJ5 - V6 Gas - highly modified
    1967 Jeepster - Stock
    1986 Jeep CJ7 - Stock
    1993 Grand Cherokee - 6.2 diesel
    2007 Grand Cherokee - 3.0 diesel

  13. Default

    As promised here is my update to my situation with the front end shake. I had the upper and lower ball joints replaced and the shake went away... So that ends that particular problem for me, thanks to all that gave their input, it is appreciated.
    Respectfully,


    Robert P.


    1999 Chev Silverado C3500 Crew cab dually long bed 4x2 - 6.5L Diesel, 4L80E / 4.10 gear.

    4" Exhaust
    Kennedy gauges
    Kennedy Inter cooler
    TD-MAX Boost Controller
    U.S. Diesel Performance ECM
    U.S. Diesel 40HP injector Kit
    150,000+ miles

    Pulling - 2013 Montana Mountaineer 346LBQ fifth wheel (12840# empty)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    30

    Exclamation before we get crazy this was my solution

    My speed wobble was pretty apparent at 35ish....the answer: A new set of tires. One of the old tires' steel belt separated (invisible from the outside) and caused a condition that it couldn't be balanced...oh it could technically be balanced, but it didn't fix the wobble. I traded out the ultra-vintage cracked up michellins for a new set of Goodyear wrangler silent armors. Problem solved. (The truck looks pretty sweet too)
    www.youtube.com/dieselsailor
    94 Sub 2500 4X4, 130k 3.73,19.5mpg hwy 12.5mpg tow,oil/diesel leaks fixed,(3-07),ES9000 Pro Comp Shocks!(4-07),amplifier on order!(4-07),New Lift Pump!(5-07),Ram-air/cold air intake!(5-07),Optima Red tops! (5-07),0 gauge battery/alternator custom lines! (6-07),New condenser & harmonic balancer (7/07),New rims and tires-265/75/r16! (7/07),Sound system done! (8/07),Alternator blown from sound system (8/07),160 amp alternator on order!

    Planning: cooling upgrade, 4" exhaust, injectors, tow chip, triple gauge pillar, and gps in-dash.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Fort St. John BC Ca
    Posts
    115

    Exclamation front end shake

    rtphillips370: as hh mentioned check out the upper and lower control arm bushings-they will give the same results at various speeds.

    Yukon6.2: on a 80 k30 4x4(dana 60 front-end) check the upper kingpins on the front axle- if one is loose (they tread in) it will shimmy
    1985 K1500-sold
    79 dually 4x4-soon to have modified 6.2/6.5l turbo
    1996 shortbox-extended cab 2WD 1500 6.5L

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Yukon Canada
    Posts
    1,612

    Default

    Hi
    Thanks for the suggestion Wade,i did check them when i did the front brngs and u joints,they seemed tight,mabey i should take the covers off and check them anyway.
    looks like another entry on the roundtoit list
    90 Chev 3500 c/c 4x4,6.2na,400 auto,4:10 gears.DSG Timing gears,main girdle, isspro tach, pyro,boost,oil and trany temp.Dual Tstats, High volume peninsular pump,on shelf, Custom turbo and intercooler 85%complete. Change of plans for the dually, it's going to get a Cummins. Both trucks are Blue 90 4x4 crews

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Saint Clair Shores, MI
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon6.2 View Post
    Hi
    I have had the same problem on my tow truck.It is a little diferent than your truck,its a 80 1 ton 4x4,soild front axle.It gets so bad that the whole truck shakes around the same speed as you describe.Each time this has presented itself i have replaced the streeing stabilizer and the problem went away.This last time it was doing it while i still had my winter tires on the front,switched tires and balanced them,still would shake changed stabilizer,shake gone.When it shakes crazy,i could sometimes slow down,make some radical left-right turns and it would sometimes go away.Disclaimer only make the radical turns unloaded and on an empty road with no trafic
    Good Luck
    Thomas

    you have the classic "death wobble" you need to rebuild the kingpins on the truck, it will make the wobble completely disappear. I had the same issues
    1985 M1008
    (k30 for the civi' minded people)
    my photo album
    6.2L (banks turbo installed)
    6" suspension lift
    38.5" ground hawg radials on H1 double-beadlocks
    cross-over steering
    rear disc brakes

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Saint Clair Shores, MI
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wade-ve7trw View Post
    Yukon6.2: on a 80 k30 4x4(dana 60 front-end) check the upper kingpins on the front axle- if one is loose (they tread in) it will shimmy

    NO they dont thread in.

    there are 4bolts/studs that hold a cap on the top of the knuckle. under the cap is a spring that keeps pressure on a nylon bushing that rides on the metal kingpin thats screwed into the inner C of the axle. to rebuild the kingpin you take the cap off and replace the nylon bushing and the spring, you only have to change the actual kingpin if its damaged. and the above rebuild can be done with the spindle and hub on the truck, only have to put the axle on jackstands and take the tires off.
    1985 M1008
    (k30 for the civi' minded people)
    my photo album
    6.2L (banks turbo installed)
    6" suspension lift
    38.5" ground hawg radials on H1 double-beadlocks
    cross-over steering
    rear disc brakes

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Fort St. John BC Ca
    Posts
    115

    Default top kingpins

    the actual kingpin itself dose thread in and the one on drivers side has a nasty habit of working loose. On checking at an alignment shop they can miss this problem if they are not familiar with a dana 60 frontend. But you are right on all that is needed to rebuilt the kingpins is jack it up and remove the plate and change the spring and bushing.
    1985 K1500-sold
    79 dually 4x4-soon to have modified 6.2/6.5l turbo
    1996 shortbox-extended cab 2WD 1500 6.5L

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Saint Clair Shores, MI
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wade-ve7trw View Post
    the actual kingpin itself dose thread in and the one on drivers side has a nasty habit of working loose.
    I've never heard of them working loose, quite the opposite in fact. On my buddies truck we had to have a piece of 3/4 hex stock bent to form a huge allen wrench, because we kept snapping 3/4drive breaker bars. It took a lot of heat and a 8ft pipe to finally break it loose, and all the threads I've ever seen about changing out the pin itself describe the same issues getting them to come loose.
    1985 M1008
    (k30 for the civi' minded people)
    my photo album
    6.2L (banks turbo installed)
    6" suspension lift
    38.5" ground hawg radials on H1 double-beadlocks
    cross-over steering
    rear disc brakes

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