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  1. #1
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    Default Duramax Engine Oil Cooler

    I just read an article in MaxxTorque regarding cooling the engine oil. This makes much sense to me. What I read was the first of a two part article, and part one laid out the research for utilizing a separate cooler.

    Now in all honesty, I don't normally read this magazine, so I am not really familiar with the author but his research SOUNDS pretty good. His assertion is that engine oil does double duty of lubrication AND cooling, AND that the oil to water cooler is pretty inefficient.

    This is only part one which basically explained the problem, and I assume that the second installment will give solutions. The problem is that I can't wait for the second installment.

    Anyone have any experience here? Mark do you run a separate oil cooler? John is an extra oil cooler worth it as far as extending engine life, and possibly gaining power (cooler oil=cooler engine temps)?

    Is this just hype or is there more to it?
    Scott
    St. Louis, MO


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  2. #2
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    When a question like this arises, I usually ask whether the author is in the business of selling parts that offer a solution... This is one reason why The Diesel Page doesn't sell anything that you can use in or bolt onto your engine/truck.

    If there was a persistent need for a "solution" to a problem with the Duramax (like the FSD/PMD 6.5 issue), we'd see the problem show up frequently in the Duramax forum and I'd get at least a few questions/discussions about that problem every month. We/I don't.... I've probably discussed the oil cooling/overheating topic in an email or phone only a couple of times in the past 7 years.

    Jim

  3. #3
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    Sounds like "KillerBee" to me! This was a gigantic "can of worms" in another forum where he was eventually kicked off! IIRC, KB was an airline pilot, not an engineer. FWIW, go carefully here cuz there is another solution to the overheating problem that brings down coolant temp AND oil temp that does work! If you don't tow heavy and you don't have OH, why bother. Jim B
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  4. #4
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    I haven't read the entire article yet. This was part one of two..? Basically he was pointing the 'heat' problem at what causes the fan clutch to kick in while towing. His assertion was that this is at least in part caused by excessive heat, and he pointed to engine oil.

    Here is the link to the article if you care to have a look: http://www.maxxtorque.com/excerpts/3...oling-part-one

    I just finished reading part two, and though he continues to make the case for better oil cooling system, he leaves it at that. Just that the cooling system of the DMax is already fairly challenged (though seemingly sufficient) but by cooling the engine oil directly, the entire engine benefits.

    Frankly, I don't really know where I could/would mount an oil cooler. The front clip is at capacity pretty much already. I would think sticking another radiator in front of the other two radiators would only compound the problem.

    I was 'fishing' for your thoughts here. I seem to have gotten them. I do tow heavy when I tow, which is only about twice a month on average, and usually only for around a hundred miles each way. Though I live in the mid-west, and summers can be pretty hot, I'm not towing through Death Valley or anything.

    Like I said before, I value the info here, and this was another magazine/website related to GM diesels that I found. I don't know much about it other than that.
    Scott
    St. Louis, MO


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  5. #5
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    Oil to water coolers are not uncommon and for their size very efficient. I don't see how it much matters if you're asking the radiator to shed the heat directly or putting an oil to air cooler in front of the radiator and asking the radiator to make do with hotter air but less heat.

    An advantage of the oil to water cooler is much more stable oil temps, albiet sometimes higher temps.
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  6. #6
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    Thanks Jim. I am not going to race out and get one just yet, but I wondered if they had been discussed or what others thought. I suppose you really can't go wrong with 'extra' cooling.
    Scott
    St. Louis, MO


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  7. #7
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    I liked the articles and sounded pretty good to me. And think it would help the 6.5 as its been reported to have high oil temps. I like your concern on just moving thermo load on the stack no huge benefit in keeping it in the stack but if you add capacity by taking it out to stack then much more cooling.

    I agree with John that the radiator/oil cooler helps stabilize the oil temp as the radiator is somewhat kind of sorta thermostatically controlled. Or could heat the oil when coolant starts to circulate. An external oil cooler is not usually really thermostatically controlled.

    I'd like to comment more later gotta go.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountainman View Post
    Sounds like "KillerBee" to me! This was a gigantic "can of worms" in another forum where he was eventually kicked off! IIRC, KB was an airline pilot, not an engineer. FWIW, go carefully here cuz there is another solution to the overheating problem that brings down coolant temp AND oil temp that does work! If you don't tow heavy and you don't have OH, why bother. Jim B
    Yes that is Killerbee. Killerbee is a quite a nice guy in person, and knows how to work a slide rule quite well. He's a quiet, well meaning guy, but tends to get caught with his pants down due to a lack of practical knowledge of how things REALLY work. This can make him dangerous. Also, his test methods are quite often called to question. The most notorious was when he started tuning with EFI Live and posted that he was getting 28.5-30.5 mpg. I can see the average Joe being fooled by the errant DIC calculator after buying an off the shelf tuner, but when a guy is a self proclaimed expert and engineer, he needs to know the basics and VERIFY the results before preaching to the world. Any supposed man of science should have known to check miles driven vs. gallons used.



    Quote Originally Posted by Stlheadake View Post
    I just read an article in MaxxTorque regarding cooling the engine oil. This makes much sense to me. What I read was the first of a two part article, and part one laid out the research for utilizing a separate cooler.

    Now in all honesty, I don't normally read this magazine, so I am not really familiar with the author but his research SOUNDS pretty good. His assertion is that engine oil does double duty of lubrication AND cooling, AND that the oil to water cooler is pretty inefficient.

    This is only part one which basically explained the problem, and I assume that the second installment will give solutions. The problem is that I can't wait for the second installment.

    Anyone have any experience here? Mark do you run a separate oil cooler? John is an extra oil cooler worth it as far as extending engine life, and possibly gaining power (cooler oil=cooler engine temps)?

    Is this just hype or is there more to it?

    Scott (off topic)

    Some time back you asked if there were any updates to the tune you were running. Yes there is an update so if you'd like to email me we can make arrangements.






    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    Oil to water coolers are not uncommon and for their size very efficient. I don't see how it much matters if you're asking the radiator to shed the heat directly or putting an oil to air cooler in front of the radiator and asking the radiator to make do with hotter air but less heat.

    An advantage of the oil to water cooler is much more stable oil temps, albiet sometimes higher temps.

    Quite some time ago we did some dyno work here regarding overheating LLY's when towing. This is where KB got his idea for engine oil cooling. Rick Lance brought an add on cooler and hoses to test. We did find that oil temps do get very hot and there is a definite benefit to removing heat from the oil. What we ended up doing to exaggerate the cooling was to run the cooler in a pail of water as we could not get REAL world cooling air (My 10HP 36" fan does a good job, just not 60mph worth) on a stationary dyno. We did find that reducing oil temps helped with coolant temps as one would expect.



    Additional oil cooling is definitely a good idea for those who tow. Necessary? Maybe not, but just be sure of one thing: Make sure that you use VERY high quality components, route them safely, and inspect routinely. Taking your engine oil out through a system of hoses can produce catastrophic results if there is a component failure. I'm sure this is part or why we have an internal oil cooler on the Dmax.
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  9. #9
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    Default

    Another small diesel engine for reference.

    Talking to another engine application engineer. This time Yanmar Diesel.

    They use an oil limit of 120C = 248F measured in an oil gallery as oil temperature limit. I think its measured between the pump and cooler.

    They also appear to pump from sump to coolant heat exchanger cooler then to filter. But I have only glanced at the engine and haven't had the opportunity to application test one yet. If I do I will post anything interesting.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
    Additional oil cooling is definitely a good idea for those who tow. Necessary? Maybe not...
    The Duramax has been on the road now for coming up on 9 years. Except for the few LLY trucks, overheating is something that most don't need to worry about. And, lubrication failures are even more rare.

    There was a 2-part article series in Diesel World magazine a few months back that discussed cooling system upgrades for the LLY. Basically, they simply installed the larger LBZ engine-driven fan and matching fan shroud.

    Jim

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