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  1. #1
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    Question

    Can any of our experts comment knowledgeably on the MT10 Metal Treatment additive produced by Muscle Products ??
    This has been highly recommended by various users, and I would appreciate any thoughts re pro's and con's.

  2. #2
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    DON'T USE IT!!!
    It's just wrong on so many levels.

    How's that?
    \'99 2500 ISB QC SLT (No Leather!),4x4,5sp w/McLeod,4:10,BP8x11\'s,B-1,FMS,EZ,PE4200,LPG,H2O/CH4O,4\"exh.,Pac-Brake,OBA,more switches than you,Line-X,V-1,lts,siren,lic. plt. frm says \"<b><i>Diesel Fumes Make Me Horny!</i></b>\",and much more goofy stuff.

  3. #3
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    Can you provide some factual support for why it is an all round bad product ? Before I decide to use or not use something , I like to know why .
    Anyone else care to comment.

  4. #4
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    Hey Andrew,

    I do not know anything about it, however I have a question for you. What truck do you have, and what fuel milage are you getting, in town and on the highway? I ask this, because there are no reports of fuel milage from Canadian Duramax owners. Also the Canadian gallon is 4.55 litres compared with the American gallon at 3.78 litres. Therefor, there is a twenty percent difference in milage numbers. Please let us know.

    James

  5. #5
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    I have a Duramax CC ZF6 speed, short box with 12,000 miles on the clock ( 19,000km ). Last time I checked I was getting 16.7m/g in town equivalent and 19.3 on the open road.
    OK now guys, let's not take this off topic , I want info on MT 10 ! Some say its great , others seem sceptical. What I need are facts.
    As we all know contributors to this site can answer anything !!

  6. #6
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    Hi AndrewF,

    I calculate my average fuel economy at the end of the month and if I seem to have got noticeably higher or lower than normal. I average about 18.5 in the winter and 19.5 in the summer. I have had I high of 22 and a worst of 17 at break in. I don't tow but have had over 5000lbs onboard. I have a '01 dually 6 speed.

    MT10 IIRC is an oil additive? Spend your money on a better oil, it would be a much better investment. To many oil additives are snake oil and worse yet even a legit additive will likely react adversly with your oil and kill some of the important properties that keep your engine alive. Try a search here on oil additives, there have been countless discussions already with some great links to some excellent articles.
    White \'01 Chev Duramax/ZF-6 Ext.Cab 3500 LS 4x4<br />Cooper LT245/75R16 Explorer S/T on<br />American Racing D-8<br />Active Wheel Balancers<br />Synthetic Front to Back<br />Warn Transformer & HS9500i on Multimount<br />Underseat Storage Bin<br />Hi Idle Mod<br />4 Headlight Mod

  7. #7
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    There is a great article on oil additives at: http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-additives.html

    This being said, MT-10 Metal Treatment (don't know about MT-10 IIRC) doesn't contain the PTFE's or Teflon that most of the others do. It uses a totally different process called "Electrochemical ionization" to reduce friction and engine wear.

    Before comment on it, Please do some research on how MT-10 works. I have been using MT-10 for years and so have many of my friends with great results. The engine runs smoother, quieter and the engine temps have dropped 10-15 degrees. I have also seen up to 3 MPG increases on some of my vehicles using MT-10.

    You can start your research here: http://www.cjdistributing.com/mt-10.htm

    Click the link called - BOUNDARY FILM PROTECTION

    This too is good reading.

    [ 04-18-2002: Message edited by: D-max Man ]</p>
    Member #4883
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  8. #8
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    Thanks Hotshot & DMax Man. While I appreciate that many oil additives can legitimately be described as 'snake oil' , there are a few excellent products around as evidenced by their use and success in high revving race motors and heavy duty machine applications around the world.
    DMax-Man , knowing the Duramax motor as well as you do, and given your indepth knowledge of what works and what doesn't , can you verify the positive advantages and maintenance cost savings that some very happy users of MT-10 have claimed in many high stress engine and machine applications. As mentioned above , I tend not to denigrate any product as 'garbage' , until I know the facts. The facts on MT-10 seem to be pursuasive It has also been around for a long time , which means something.

  9. #9
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    Okay, okay. I was feeling smug. Here's the reason I don't like oil additives.

    Yes, some oil additives do exactly what they claim. Others do more damage. For example, PTFE in our engines can be devistating (if it even works at all). That application was never intended for the engine stresses and teperatures that we run at. Not even close. Not to mention, the possible damage (loss of performance) to injector tips from fouling. Just one example.

    Then there is the possiblity of using some products that may actually interfere with the additive packages in some oils. The problem is that it is impossible to tell if you will be safe because there are so many oils out there.

    Your safest bet is to use a quality oil and a good filter.
    MT10 may work just fine (it is impressive stuff), but is the extra cost worth the benefit (and the potential damage)?
    I understand how MT10 works, but I believe that the gain will be marginal, if detectable at all, for this application. I don't believe that enough history exists to make a reasonable judgement for this application. That's why I said, "Don't use it!!!"

  10. #10
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    D-Max Man, given your experience and expertize on the Duramax engine , perhaps you could advise whether in your view there would be ANY downside at all ( apart from cost ) in using MT - 10 in this engine particularly given that the jury is still out concerning oil additives generally. The website article your referred us to i.e. Snakeoil
    would suggest this is not an adviseable route to take, particularly as in virtually every case the research is subjective and most of the promotional literature is in the form of letters from 'satisfied customers'. In other words if you had a Duramax , would you use it ??

  11. #11
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    Yes,
    I would use it in my own Duramax (if I had one). I am currently using it in all of my vehicles, including my Mercedes diesel.

    MT-10 is not an oil additive; it is a metal treatment. MT-10 doesn't just coat the metal surfaces to make them slippery. The process it uses is called Electrochemical ionization. How it works (in laymen's terms) is that it realigns the ions in the metal. All materials have both positive and negative ions in them, which are in no real order. MT-10 causes the negative ions to go to the center of the metal and brings the positives to the surface creating a totally positive surface.

    If you have ever played with magnets, you know what happens when you put two like poles together, They repel one another. This is the basic theory of how MT-10 works. It causes the moving metal parts of your engine to repel each other, not as strongly as magnets do but enough to reduce friction and its related heat by 90%.

    MT-10 has been around sense the early 80's, before all those "Snake oils" started to appear on your TV screen. It was originally designed as a bearing lubricant for extreme pressure, industrial applications. One of the employees at MPC had an automotive background and thought that it would work well in automotive applications (Which it does) and he had it tested with great results for such use. The owners of MPC however, decided to concentrate mostly on the industrial market in which they had a great reputation and many satisfied customers. That is why it has been around so long but it is not well known in the automotive world.

    Also MPC has a perfect liability record. No one has ever filed a claim against them for damages as a result of the use of MT-10.
    Member #4883
    My diesels
    97 Chevy C-3500 Dually, 6.5TD
    85 VW Jetta 1.6L N/A
    85 Mercedes Benz 190D 2.2 N/A
    85 Surburban 2500 4x4 6.2 N/A
    83 Chevy G-30 Van 6.2 N/A

  12. #12
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    D-Max-Man, many thanks for your input and comments. I think that's all I need to hear.
    I have had very good experience using it in my ride-on mower and other farm machinery. Now for the ultimate test !!!!

  13. #13
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    Hey D-Max-Man , just by way of an after thought, maybe MT-10 is the cure everyone has been waiting for, for the infamous 'tick' !!!!!!

  14. #14
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    Any one else on this 'site' apart from D-Max Man using MT-10 metal treatment ?? Would appreciate your feedback/results. Thanks guys.

  15. #15
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    Talking

    Hi Guys,

    I went over to the Muscle Power site and read the tech info on MT-10. I have no experience with the stuff, and I don't personally know anyone who does. I believe D-max man uses and likes it, but to be honest, the way the mfr presented the info and showed the test results from an unnamed "independent laboratory" gave me an uneasy feeling.

    Can anyone point me to truly independent tests run on the stuff, not marketing info from the mfr or distributor? Any phone numbers to fleet maintenance people who've used it? I'd love to get reduced friction and increased mileage.

    Regards, Steve
    \'02 2500HD 2WD LS, grey, CC, SB, D/A, locking diff., alloys, trailer and towing pkg. Delivered 11/09/01<br />So far:<br />Juice ver 3.61c, Max Power Plug, PS2000 propane, Gibson Performance dual exhaust, 255/85-16 Dunlop Rover A/Ts<br />Pillar mounted SPA Boost/EGT/oil press./oil, tranny, diff. temp gauges, Valentine One<br />Aiwa CD/MP3 head, 4- Pioneer TS-C1653 6.5\" component spkrs, 2-10\" Tsunami subs, 1200W of Visonik amps<br />Jordan 2020 Ultima Brake Controller, Lucerix mirrors, Line-X, Bed X-tender, DeeZee running boards<br />Peragon folding bed cover, Rancho RS9000 shocks<br />PIAA headlights, Power tailgate lock, Invinca-shield, Husky flaps and tinted windows <br />Mag-Hytech diff. cover, Allison deep sump, Transynd, Amsoil air filter and gear lube, Fumoto valve<p>Up next:<br />high idle, Spare fuel tank?<br /><a href=\"http://www.pbase.com/sfrakes/2002_silverado\" target=\"_blank\">Truck Pictures</a>

  16. #16
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    AndrewF, how long have you been working for the MT-10 company?

  17. #17
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    SoCalDMAX,

    The testing was done at Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio, Texas.

    coolslug,

    Take it easy on Andrew F, he doesn't work for MPC. I am the one who turned him on to MT-10. He is just looking for more imput from others who have used it.

    [ 04-19-2002: Message edited by: D-max Man ]</p>
    Member #4883
    My diesels
    97 Chevy C-3500 Dually, 6.5TD
    85 VW Jetta 1.6L N/A
    85 Mercedes Benz 190D 2.2 N/A
    85 Surburban 2500 4x4 6.2 N/A
    83 Chevy G-30 Van 6.2 N/A

  18. #18
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    Hey Coolslug ...fortunately I don't wound easily.
    Like everyone else on this site, just trying to get the best info I can before plunging into things. Like everyone else I guess. Thanks D-Max Man for your input. Based on your feedback , I am now satisfied. Many thanks and I will let you know how I make out .

  19. #19
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    Red face

    Yeesh! Did anyone actually try and read the technical paper on this stuff? Asperities,oxiranes, microrheodynamic, elastohydrodynamic,organo-metallic, oxirane rings, protonic reagents, saponification.
    I'm not always the sharpest tool in the tool shed but I do know bad science fiction writing when I see it! Any Chem Es in the group want to evaluate their (MPC's) "technical paper".

  20. #20
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    From a lube engineer's standpoint, absolutely, postively, NO, do NOT use MT10 metal treatment in your Duramax engine. I can site several hundred reasons why not, but let me share just a few.
    1. MT10 (or other addtive) Simply not needed... In other words, a complete waste of money...
    2. When MT10 or any other additive is added to your CH-4 rated engine oil, it is no longer the same chemical, no longer a CH-4 rated oil, no longer backed by manufacturer of the oil or the engine. Period... You have created a new chemical with the MT-10 (or other additive)
    3. The formulation of a diesel engine oil is very much like that of a cake mix. Say a cake mix calls for 2 eggs. Now, add 10 eggs to the cake mix.. No longer will this make a cake. Same goes for engine oils.. Engine formulations are a finely balanced ratio of additives to provide the highest level of oil and engine performance. No one knows exactly what is in MT10, nor do the manufacturers of MT10 know exactly what is in every diesel engine oil formulation..
    4. Our engines do NOT stress the engine oil. The oil function for most of our engine internals is similar to the TV commercial Goodyear Aqua Tred commercial where the fellow is riding on a surf-board on a thin water cushion. Same with our Duramax engines..
    The turbocharger does put temperature stress on the engine oil but a full synthetic like Delvac 1 or other CH-4 rated oil lives with those temperature challenges just fine..

    We just do not need any additive supplementation in our Duramax engines. One opens a whole host of potential problems by mixing unknown chemistries.
    Why take a chance????
    George Morrison, STLE CLS
    George Morrison, STLE CLS<br />www.avlube.com e-mail avlube@netwalk.com<br />2002 Chev Duramax 2500HD, Delvac 1, Mobil 1 syn ATF, 75W-90<br />1998 Chev 3500HD 6.5TD, Delvac 1, Harvard 750S by-pass oil filter

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