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Thread: no fuel to injectors with ds4

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    costa mesa, orange county, so ca.
    Posts
    323

    Default no fuel to injectors with ds4

    I hooked everything up on my engine and am trying to test fire. most everything is new
    heres what ive tested so far.

    elec fuel pump/ good
    shut off solenoid/ good
    glow plugs and controler/ good

    I've tried a few crank sessions with both injector lines at the front "both sides" cracked open, no fuel has come weeping out?

    The injection pump has fuel in it I.E. it's been run on this engine before I got it. Brand new engine run for about 5000 miles and put in storage. I now am trying to get it up and running nearly 10yrs later.

    it's the 97 engine for my blazer project...

    Also wondering if this thing will run with no accelerator pedal plugged in? I dont have one for this engine yet but I can use the one out of my pickup if I need to..

    I just want to do a little shake down run to make sure everythings in order..
    Project K-1
    75 GMC Jimmy with a 97 H-1 Hummer drivetrain on 1 ton axles.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    AB Canada
    Posts
    218

    Default

    ofcause you need the pedal, its like trying shifting your tranny without the stickshift in it
    98 GMC sierra 2500 ext cab 4x4 auto tr 6.5 td 252000 km. needs new engine, next project
    95 GMC sierra LE 2500 ext cab sh box 4x4 auto tr 6.5 td 328.000 km. my wife's truck .remote pmd on cooler
    89 GMC sierra SLE 1500 ext cab 4x4 auto tr 6.2 720000 km engine swap at 665000 km because of broken oil cooler line. 6 bolt wheels.
    Waldon wheelloader repowered with a 6.2 na

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Newberg Oregon
    Posts
    12,283

    Default

    Without the PPS (Pedal posisition sensor) hooked up the ECM will not allow a start as there would be no control of the fuel.

    Everything on the rig has to be hooked up for the DS4 to opperate.

    Hope this helps

    Robyn
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2005 Suburban (Papa Smurf)
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    costa mesa, orange county, so ca.
    Posts
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    Default

    thanks!! I'll give that a go, I'm very excited now!!
    Project K-1
    75 GMC Jimmy with a 97 H-1 Hummer drivetrain on 1 ton axles.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    costa mesa, orange county, so ca.
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    Default

    ok I tried a few crank sessions with the pedal plugged in, I got a little weep from injector #2 but haven't got fuel to any others.

    I had one plug with 5 wires that I traced

    1 for the glow plug light "does work" no problems there.

    1 that goes to the oil pressure switch, no voltage present when on or start. I originaly thought it was to power fuel pump relay but now ??

    1 wire that goes to pin 14 on the ECM blue block 32pin connector
    I'm thinking this is the signal for the "check engine light"?

    2 wires that go to the speedo pickup at the t-case tail housing

    Mabe I'm missing something? or maybe I just have air in system that needs to bleed out?
    does the oil pressure switch need power?
    pin 14 need some voltage?
    Project K-1
    75 GMC Jimmy with a 97 H-1 Hummer drivetrain on 1 ton axles.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Stratford, Ct. // Stoddard NH
    Posts
    708

    Default

    manually turn on fuel pump...(jump out)
    disconnect glow circuit
    bleed out filter, bleed out water purge, bleed to inlet on pump
    keep pump running 1 hr
    break all lines on drivers side (and wherever you can get to!)
    crank like hell... 30 seconds max...(5-10 minute breather) gonna take some time
    when they all get wet and weepy tighten them up
    reconnect glow circuit
    fire away

    good luck we've all been there!
    95 Suburban 1500 Bone Stock Orig.
    purchased at 103K from first owner
    new alternator/autozone gold @104K
    re-trannyed with shift kit @107.5K
    new Bilsteins all around @ 127K
    Kennedy exhaust @128k ..zoom!
    new lift pump w/OPS bypass @ 130K
    Kennedy FSD cooler @ 135K
    New IP/Injectors/G-plugs @ 137k
    Another autozone alternator and Optima Reds @ 150K
    Another pump and injectors @157K
    New chain and gears @157K
    HO pump single therm setup @157K (will see what happens)
    Head gasket or worse to be determined...164k
    NEW AM General 6.5 installed and running well! @ 164K!!!!!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    costa mesa, orange county, so ca.
    Posts
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    Default

    well I gave it several crank sessions all injectors cracked until the lift pump stoped making noise!! so I give up for today. Doesn't seem like like it should take this much to get fuel to the injectors. must be something else..
    Project K-1
    75 GMC Jimmy with a 97 H-1 Hummer drivetrain on 1 ton axles.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Stratford, Ct. // Stoddard NH
    Posts
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    Default

    The lift pump needs to make noise all the time....It will get louder with less output.

    Did you jump it out manually? Dont rely on the OP or computer to do it right.

    I replaced all my injector lines one year....it took forever to get fuel to weep out.

    At this stage of the game you might want to remove the glows as to not kill the starter.

    Any white smoke form the tail pipe?
    95 Suburban 1500 Bone Stock Orig.
    purchased at 103K from first owner
    new alternator/autozone gold @104K
    re-trannyed with shift kit @107.5K
    new Bilsteins all around @ 127K
    Kennedy exhaust @128k ..zoom!
    new lift pump w/OPS bypass @ 130K
    Kennedy FSD cooler @ 135K
    New IP/Injectors/G-plugs @ 137k
    Another autozone alternator and Optima Reds @ 150K
    Another pump and injectors @157K
    New chain and gears @157K
    HO pump single therm setup @157K (will see what happens)
    Head gasket or worse to be determined...164k
    NEW AM General 6.5 installed and running well! @ 164K!!!!!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Newberg Oregon
    Posts
    12,283

    Default

    If all the wiring is connected correctly the system should be up and ready in only a few minutes.

    You need to bleed the air from the filter and the lines so that you have clean air freee fuel coming to the IP.
    At this point crank the engine. Fule should start coming out the injector lines within only a few moments.

    **SECRET*** remove the glow plugs during the initial spinup.
    With the glow plugs out the engine spins very easy and will get fuel to the injectors fast.

    Once you have clouds of fuel mist blowing from the glow plugs holes your set.

    Install and hook up the glow plugs and then go for a startup.

    The engine should start fairly quick.
    The initial few minutes will be a little rough as the final amounts of air are purged from the system and things settle in.

    When starting with a dry IP and all the lines etc dry it can take a lot of time to get things up and flying.

    Be sure to get air free fuel to the IP before cranking the engine though

    Best

    Robyn
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2005 Suburban (Papa Smurf)
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    costa mesa, orange county, so ca.
    Posts
    323

    Default

    I did have the lift pump jumped out on an switched acc. lead from the new wiring harness in the jimmy. I left it on and it got pretty hot until it just stopped. It was a cheapie fuel pump anyway, but it had the correct flow rate.

    I will remove glowplugs next time I have a go at it!! I have a bleeder valve on the thermo cross over and I did let out a pint of fuel. I was just watching for fuel to come running down the injectors where I cracked the lines..

    heres some pics, as you can see I have pretty easy access.!!







    Project K-1
    75 GMC Jimmy with a 97 H-1 Hummer drivetrain on 1 ton axles.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Stratford, Ct. // Stoddard NH
    Posts
    708

    Default

    jeezus! you have acess galore!

    Stay at it! Robyn has given you some good tips...looks like your starting with new lines (injection) so it could take a while.

    be patient looks like its not your daily driver anyway by the look of the access ports!
    95 Suburban 1500 Bone Stock Orig.
    purchased at 103K from first owner
    new alternator/autozone gold @104K
    re-trannyed with shift kit @107.5K
    new Bilsteins all around @ 127K
    Kennedy exhaust @128k ..zoom!
    new lift pump w/OPS bypass @ 130K
    Kennedy FSD cooler @ 135K
    New IP/Injectors/G-plugs @ 137k
    Another autozone alternator and Optima Reds @ 150K
    Another pump and injectors @157K
    New chain and gears @157K
    HO pump single therm setup @157K (will see what happens)
    Head gasket or worse to be determined...164k
    NEW AM General 6.5 installed and running well! @ 164K!!!!!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    costa mesa, orange county, so ca.
    Posts
    323

    Default

    Well I gave it another 2hrs worth of cranking sessions with the glow plugs removed... I got a good amount of fuel comming from injector line 7 initialy but none of the others seemed to fall in line.

    I replaced the lift pump with a new carter unit and got it going, bled out about a half gallon of fuel to purge the lines..

    My thoughts are maybe I'm not giving it enough power.. I'm using a single optima yellow top with a battery charger attached to keep the batt topped off..

    All the ecu harness grounds go right back to the batt negative so I don't thats an issue.

    I'm at a loss for now..
    Project K-1
    75 GMC Jimmy with a 97 H-1 Hummer drivetrain on 1 ton axles.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    AB Canada
    Posts
    218

    Default

    2 good batts will deff help to attain cranking speed to start,but for getting fuel to the inj it should not be a problem.

    are you 100% sure all wires and connections are good?

    Is the PMD known good?

    Why was the engine put in storage? running issue ?or a cratered vehicle? What is the complete history?

    A new engine dont mean a new IP as well. The IP itself could be the culprit.Maybe the Fuel solenoid is sticking (gummed up)after sitting for so long? Might be time to at least have the IP tested.

    I never had a problem bleeding and starting a 6.5 engine i have rebuild or changed fuel components on within 5 min
    98 GMC sierra 2500 ext cab 4x4 auto tr 6.5 td 252000 km. needs new engine, next project
    95 GMC sierra LE 2500 ext cab sh box 4x4 auto tr 6.5 td 328.000 km. my wife's truck .remote pmd on cooler
    89 GMC sierra SLE 1500 ext cab 4x4 auto tr 6.2 720000 km engine swap at 665000 km because of broken oil cooler line. 6 bolt wheels.
    Waldon wheelloader repowered with a 6.2 na

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    costa mesa, orange county, so ca.
    Posts
    323

    Default

    well this is a factory brand new motor and components with very little milage, about 5000. it was used for this
    http://www.millenworks.com/html/ligh...navItemIndex=4
    they pulled the motor "after trials" to test an electric drivetrain..

    I checked the grounds and gave it a few more tries, still no luck...

    I have a mechnical 5209 pump as a back up, I just need to figure out how to run the 4l80e.
    Project K-1
    75 GMC Jimmy with a 97 H-1 Hummer drivetrain on 1 ton axles.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Knoxville,Tennessee
    Posts
    2,639

    Default

    I would try using two batteries. It takes 100 rpm cranking before the computer will allow the IP to send fuel to the injectors.
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."
    -Patrick Henry


    A5150nut
    2006 K3500 D/A
    94 6.5 4x4 5spd Sold

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Stratford, Ct. // Stoddard NH
    Posts
    708

    Default

    yeah keep the charger on whilst you crank away also!
    95 Suburban 1500 Bone Stock Orig.
    purchased at 103K from first owner
    new alternator/autozone gold @104K
    re-trannyed with shift kit @107.5K
    new Bilsteins all around @ 127K
    Kennedy exhaust @128k ..zoom!
    new lift pump w/OPS bypass @ 130K
    Kennedy FSD cooler @ 135K
    New IP/Injectors/G-plugs @ 137k
    Another autozone alternator and Optima Reds @ 150K
    Another pump and injectors @157K
    New chain and gears @157K
    HO pump single therm setup @157K (will see what happens)
    Head gasket or worse to be determined...164k
    NEW AM General 6.5 installed and running well! @ 164K!!!!!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    costa mesa, orange county, so ca.
    Posts
    323

    Default

    well I can't figure it out, so I'm changing the plan of attack!!

    \

    could have been the pmd or an assorment of other issues as I was finding out via research. there is my back up plan. can anyone point out all the things I will need to make this work? I am finding that the throttle bracket will need to be modified, and somehow I will need to make trans work..

    The new pump is a db831-5209
    The trans is a 97 4wd
    Project K-1
    75 GMC Jimmy with a 97 H-1 Hummer drivetrain on 1 ton axles.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    costa mesa, orange county, so ca.
    Posts
    323

    Default

    whooo hooo!! runs like a brand new engine!!

    Project K-1
    75 GMC Jimmy with a 97 H-1 Hummer drivetrain on 1 ton axles.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Kelowna, BC
    Posts
    1,070

    Default

    very nice. sounds very healthy. that is a sweet project.
    1993 HD2500- 4X4, Nv4500, rc/lb, Lots of mods, killed her. Awaiting her TT rebuild!

    2002 Camaro L36/M49- Killed In Action

    1995 HD2500 - 4X4, NV4500 rc/lb, GL4, Turbo, exhaust

    1994 HD2500- 4X4, NV4500, ec/lb

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