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Thread: Rattle and bang!

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Elko, Nevada
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcbellco View Post
    Any thoughts on replacing sensors?
    Nevermind. For roughly $250 in parts, it's a no-brainer to replace the sensors. Of course motor mounts, injectors, glows, water pump, belts, hoses will all be replaced as well. My complete list with estimated prices is:

    Exhasut Manifolds, MACHINED flat $??
    Exhaust Manifold Bolts, NEW $20
    Glow plugs, NEW, AC Delco 60G $112
    Injectors, REMAN, standard flow $420
    Radiator Hoses, NEW $72
    Serpentine belt, NEW $52
    Water Pump, NEW, 140 gpm $100
    Block Heater, NEW, freeze plug type $64
    Oil Cooler Lines, NEW, prefer braided upgrade type $140
    Motor Mounts $80
    Oil Pressure Switch, NEW $35
    Intake Air Sensor, NEW $32
    ECM Coolant Temp Sensor, NEW $27
    Gauge Coolant Temp Sensor, NEW $27
    Crankshaft Position Sensor, NEW $52
    Fuel Lift Pump, NEW $60
    Lift Pump Relay, NEW $20
    Fuel Filter, NEW $16
    Oil + Filter, NEW $32
    Transmission Fluid and Filter, NEW $120
    Antifreeze $20
    Long Block, NEW $6-7k
    Long Block, Freight $500-ish
    Labor $2,200-ish

    For a grand total of $10,451 (ish). Plus a re-tuned chip ($300). I realize that some of these may be "optional," but it seems like stepping over dollars to pick up pennies when I'm spending $7k on a new block and $2k on labor. Thoughts and opinions are welcome, however.
    1994 K1500 6.5L, 196k truck/30k engine, 18:1 ceramic coated pistons, EGR delete, CAT delete, Vac delete, Turbo Master, Max-E-Tork tune, hiflo water pump, bumper-mount PMD, 4L80E, 4" pipes, 3" lift, 275-70-18s ... DEAD ... Awaiting a new engine block

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In the North
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    INMHO,..

    sensors are a crap shoot,. they work ,. they don;t,.. no direct relationship between hrs of service and reliability,.

    its always nice to have new everything,. then its twice as aggravating when the new part fails prematurely,.

    I personally would use everything off the old running engine,.

    I,d get the injectors tested/flow checked/balanced,.

    If the mounts are not squashed,. i,d re use them,.

    If the exhaust manifolds weren't leaking,. then they don't need machining, more like a quick scratch over with a nice coarse mill bastard file to see if they are flat,.

    i can switch motors in about 8 hrs by my self,..add a couple of hours if i have to undress one motor and dress the other,.

    so at $90.00hr i figure $1500 labour max,.

    As i said its nice to have all new stuff,.. but is it all necessary,..??

    Might as well do what you want,. you're gonna anyway.
    1999 chev suburban C2500
    300,000 mi

  3. #23
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    Jan 2014
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    Elko, Nevada
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom309 View Post
    INMHO,..

    I,d get the injectors tested/flow checked/balanced,.
    Where would I get injectors tested, flow checked, and balanced? I don't think there is a local shop that can do that. My injectors are only a year old and have 5k miles on them. If they weren't the cause of the failure, I'd rather reuse them for now.

    What are the opinions on testing used injectors, buying good quality remanufactured, or new Bosch injectors? I'm going from 18:1 to standard 21:1 with my new motor. My injectors are currently "marine" injectors. Would I need to change them anyway with the higher compression. Obviously a new chip tune goes along with all of this too.

    A lot of other stuff on my list to replace were upcoming maintenance items anyway (other than sensors, which just seem worth it for around $250). Belt was looking worn, hoses don't seem wise to reuse, oil cooling lines were already leaking, block heater didn't seem to do much and was due to be replaced by a lower hose type anyway, motor mounts are looking pretty worn, etc. I'd probably be better off buying a new lift pump and sensors and throwing them in the tool box for spares, though.
    1994 K1500 6.5L, 196k truck/30k engine, 18:1 ceramic coated pistons, EGR delete, CAT delete, Vac delete, Turbo Master, Max-E-Tork tune, hiflo water pump, bumper-mount PMD, 4L80E, 4" pipes, 3" lift, 275-70-18s ... DEAD ... Awaiting a new engine block

  4. #24
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    Jan 2014
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    Elko, Nevada
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    I have a feeling I might be stirring up a hornet's nest, but I have to ask:

    Any experience or first hand knowledge of the "Brand New SSDiesel Supply Long Block engine"? It has identical specs as the AMG/GEP engine, but goes for $1500 less ...
    Again, seems too good to be true but I had to ask. I am fairly certain I will buy an AMG long block. I DEFINITELY do not want to do this again!
    1994 K1500 6.5L, 196k truck/30k engine, 18:1 ceramic coated pistons, EGR delete, CAT delete, Vac delete, Turbo Master, Max-E-Tork tune, hiflo water pump, bumper-mount PMD, 4L80E, 4" pipes, 3" lift, 275-70-18s ... DEAD ... Awaiting a new engine block

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Teton Valley, Idaho
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    It's been a while since I lived in the world of the 6.5, but isn't there a high flow dual thermostat setup that can be installed? Might be a nice option on a higher output engine.

    Edit: What about your radiator? This would be a good time to have it cleaned by a radiator shop. Cheap protection for your new engine (and maybe even required to maintain any warranty on the new block).

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Loyal WI US
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    I am a very big advocate of milling the exhaust manifolds flat. They will always be warped and often pitted etc. Manifolds seal to the heads via metal to metal and sealing is important.

    Milling the manifolds is building out the foundation.

    If the injectors only have 5k on them they may well be good, but this whole "marine" thing enters in a question of quality and what they REALLY are???

    Most of the sensors will be fine to transfer over, they seldom go bad. OPS swap out is a no brainer though. ECT and IAT sensors on a wire wheel and they look like new again if aesthetics concerns you.

    Start your new engine with distilled water only in the cooling system. If you end up having a leak or need to do rework it's a lot less messy this way. Once the project has passed the shakedown test and you are confident that all is well you can do coolant swap.
    Kennedy Diesel-owner
    More than just a salesman-I use and test the products that I sell on a daily basis!
    Superflow Lie Detector in house
    2002 Chev K2500HD D/A CC Long LT 11.77@ 124mph at 7700# fuel only-e.t. needs help
    2005 Chev K3500SRW D/A CC Long LT(SOLD)
    2007 Chev K2500 Classic EC Short LT (Sold)
    2012 GMC K3500SRW D/A CC Long LTZ Happy Birthday to me! Built 1 working day after my birthday and delivered 7 days later.
    2016 GMC K3500SRW D/A CC short LTZ

    Custom tuning in house using EFI Live tuning software!

  7. #27
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    Dec 2003
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    Yukon Canada
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    Hi jcbellco
    I haven't had anything to do with SSDiesel Supply.But i have read about them on this site,you should really make sure you want to send them money before you take that leap.
    I would go with the AMG/GEP option.The specs may be the same but the product probably isn't.
    Save a little money by reusing your original sensors and buy the real thing from AMG.Sensors are easy to replace if and when they go bad.But if that offshore block breaks,or offshore crank or heads take a dump you will be back were you are now with out any support from offshore.
    Thomas
    90 Chev 3500 c/c 4x4,6.2na,400 auto,4:10 gears.DSG Timing gears,main girdle, isspro tach, pyro,boost,oil and trany temp.Dual Tstats, High volume peninsular pump,on shelf, Custom turbo and intercooler 85%complete. Change of plans for the dually, it's going to get a Cummins. Both trucks are Blue 90 4x4 crews

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
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    2,697

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon6.2 View Post
    I would go with the AMG/GEP option.The specs may be the same but the product probably isn't.
    That pretty much sums it up. If it isn’t a documented AMG/GEP block, it isn’t the same.
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
    '93 Chevrolet 6.5TD K2500HD NV4500 Std. Cab Longbed 187K
    '85 Toyota 22R RN60 4x4 Std. Cab Shortbed 178K (Currently retired for rebuild)
    Diesel Page Member #2423

  9. #29
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    Jan 2014
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    Elko, Nevada
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    Thanks fellas. I figured as much. I'll be ordering an AMG/GEP here shortly. Just need to wait for another pay check or two ...

    This project is definitely going to be done right. I'd rather spend $10k and have something good than spend $8k and be in the same situation a year from now.

    I'll be getting the manifolds machined as JK recommended, as well as new injectors. I've been assuming this swap will necessitate a re-tune, but is that true? The major changes will be going from 18:1 to 21:1 and going to stock injectors (rather than "marine"). Everything else should be the same.
    1994 K1500 6.5L, 196k truck/30k engine, 18:1 ceramic coated pistons, EGR delete, CAT delete, Vac delete, Turbo Master, Max-E-Tork tune, hiflo water pump, bumper-mount PMD, 4L80E, 4" pipes, 3" lift, 275-70-18s ... DEAD ... Awaiting a new engine block

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Lubbock TX, USA
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    Good idea on machining the exhaust manifolds. They erode badly on Ports 6 and 8 and need to be machined to bring them to serviceable condition. They have to be machined on a mill because of the angle of the ports relative to the turbo port. Most surfacing of exhaust manifolds involves a big belt sander, can't do that on the turbo side manifold

    JK has a good machinist that can do this. I've sent my own manifold to him for this purpose.

    Gaskets are only so-so with the exhaust pressure these have when under boost. Most manifolds are so badly pitted the gaskets don't seal anyways.

    I don't see a reason to retune. The injectors and compression ratio will make a difference in performance overall, but the tunes aren't calibrated for these two differences. They're just fuel, timing and air/turbo calibration and transmission shift firmness.

    John
    1982 C10 SCSWB 6.5TD, mods too extensive to list. (13.69 1/4 mile @94.6 MPH) RACE TRUCK
    1982 C10 SCSWB 6.2NA, 2.73 700
    1986 C10 SCLWB 6.2TD 3.73 700
    1989 V20 SUB 6.2NA, 3.73 400
    1994 G20 VAN 6.5NA, 3.42 60E
    1994 K20LD ECSWB 6.5TD, 3.42 80E
    1995 K20 SUB 6.5TD, Wrecked, ran into by stupid teen.
    1995 C3500HD DRW 6.5TD, 12' Flatbed 5.13 80E
    1995 C3500HD DRW 6.5TD, 18' Rollback Wrecker 4.63 80E
    1994 C20HD ECLWB 6.5TD 3.73 80E Wifes Truck.
    1995 C20LD ECSWB 6.5TD 3.73 80E
    1995 K20LD SCLWB 6.5TD 3.73 80E
    1996 K30 DRW 6.5TD 4.10 80E
    1997 C10 Tahoe 2Door 2WD 5.7L to 6.5 Conversion Underway

  11. #31
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    Jan 2014
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    Elko, Nevada
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    Great. Thanks John.
    1994 K1500 6.5L, 196k truck/30k engine, 18:1 ceramic coated pistons, EGR delete, CAT delete, Vac delete, Turbo Master, Max-E-Tork tune, hiflo water pump, bumper-mount PMD, 4L80E, 4" pipes, 3" lift, 275-70-18s ... DEAD ... Awaiting a new engine block

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Lubbock TX, USA
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    Don't sweat the sensor replacements. 90% of the time these are transferred with no issue. A knowledgeable installer will know after the installation if they check using a scan tool if the sensors are performing as expected. The OPS - Oil Pressure switch should always be replaced with a new AC Delco D1808A. Any sensor replaced should really be replaced with a OE Sensor, like AC Delco. Aftermarket tends to add additional error into the equation.

    As for the injectors. I do volume with a local fuel shop that does my performance work and I test injectors during engine R&R's. If any question as to the origin of the injectors, we take apart one and identify the nozzle make/model after testing it. If we agree with the guts, the injector assembly is cleaned, lapped, and re-assembled using new heat shield/washer, and pop tested to verify working again. No biggie really.

    John
    1982 C10 SCSWB 6.5TD, mods too extensive to list. (13.69 1/4 mile @94.6 MPH) RACE TRUCK
    1982 C10 SCSWB 6.2NA, 2.73 700
    1986 C10 SCLWB 6.2TD 3.73 700
    1989 V20 SUB 6.2NA, 3.73 400
    1994 G20 VAN 6.5NA, 3.42 60E
    1994 K20LD ECSWB 6.5TD, 3.42 80E
    1995 K20 SUB 6.5TD, Wrecked, ran into by stupid teen.
    1995 C3500HD DRW 6.5TD, 12' Flatbed 5.13 80E
    1995 C3500HD DRW 6.5TD, 18' Rollback Wrecker 4.63 80E
    1994 C20HD ECLWB 6.5TD 3.73 80E Wifes Truck.
    1995 C20LD ECSWB 6.5TD 3.73 80E
    1995 K20LD SCLWB 6.5TD 3.73 80E
    1996 K30 DRW 6.5TD 4.10 80E
    1997 C10 Tahoe 2Door 2WD 5.7L to 6.5 Conversion Underway

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Henderson, Nevada
    Posts
    324

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    Hi JC ,
    I answered your PM, however I can't tell if my reply went out or not. Did you receive my reply ?
    Jerry near Las Vegas
    1996 Silverado 2500 TD , stock except for a remote mounted PMD.

    I purchased this Truck 7 years ago from the original owner, had 80,000 miles on it. I Had the engine remanufactured at 100,000 by a local remanufacturer that does 6.5 Engines for the Military. Now has 105,00 miles on it.

  14. #34
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    Jan 2014
    Location
    Elko, Nevada
    Posts
    25

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    Any opinions out there on how necessary or beneficial it is to swap in a Phazer gear drive on a new Optimizer?

    I'd like to do whatever I can within reason to prolong the life of my investment, without throwing money away.

    Also, what's the deal with "new" Bosch injectors? Why are they so cheap? Do they not include nozzles or something? Looks like I can get a full set for around $320 from Summit Racing or Jegs.
    1994 K1500 6.5L, 196k truck/30k engine, 18:1 ceramic coated pistons, EGR delete, CAT delete, Vac delete, Turbo Master, Max-E-Tork tune, hiflo water pump, bumper-mount PMD, 4L80E, 4" pipes, 3" lift, 275-70-18s ... DEAD ... Awaiting a new engine block

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