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Thread: Newbie With a 1983 G Series Van & 6.2

  1. #61
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    Fuel system checks out, gotta be the glow plugs not having enough time to heat up with the new controller. So close!

  2. #62
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    New GPs should be here Thursday, I know what I am doing this weekend.

  3. #63
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    Can you time the controller and tell us how long its running?
    Also if you want to try something....Take a can of air duster and hold it upside down and spray the base of the controller. This should fool it into thinking that it is about -10 out and would make sure that the controller is functioning.
    What glow plugs did you get?
    1996 Chvy 3500 CCDWLB 6.5 Heathed, NO vac, marine injctrs, ARB bumper, BIG pipe, 3" lift, bright lights, bypass oil system.
    1986 Chvy 6.2 M1009 blazer RAM AIR, Headers, Custom interior
    2001 Chinook RV, V10 gas
    1974 John Deere 1530 diesel tractor
    1993 John Deere 455 Diesel lawn mower
    1967 GTO, 1989 Honda Transalp
    2009 VW Jetta TDI, flashed and piped, 6speed, fun car!
    1998 6.5 suburban, stock, daughter's
    1993 6.5 3500 CCSWLB GM8, Heathed, big exhaust, gauges, Son's

    1984 6.2 ATS turbo 3500, SCDWLB - Son's
    3 kids, 1 wife, 1 dog
    Gunsmith, Tactics Instructor, Fabricator USMC 87-93 Semper Fi!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dvldog8793 View Post
    Can you time the controller and tell us how long its running?
    Also if you want to try something....Take a can of air duster and hold it upside down and spray the base of the controller. This should fool it into thinking that it is about -10 out and would make sure that the controller is functioning.
    What glow plugs did you get?
    When I got it hooked up, it seemed like a cycle time of less than 8 seconds, followed by a 10 second break then another 2-3 second heat cycle. I will time it correctly next time I am in the cab. Interesting idea about chilling the controller.
    I got the quick heat plugs from Kennedy.com.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigshankhank View Post
    When I got it hooked up, it seemed like a cycle time of less than 8 seconds, followed by a 10 second break then another 2-3 second heat cycle. I will time it correctly next time I am in the cab. Interesting idea about chilling the controller.
    I got the quick heat plugs from Kennedy.com.
    The cycle timing sounds normal. It was originally designed for 6V fast glow plugs, such as the AC9G and AC11G. This can present a problem with later plugs, such as the AC60G, which is a much more durable plug, but is much slower and may require longer glow cycles. Many claim they are fine in their rig with original timing, but I think they simply have an easier starting engine, or are using them in a favorable environment. Voltage and heat are what they are. The Kennedy QH plugs you bought should work very well (I use them). They are very fast and very hot, similar to the original 9G plugs, without the concern of premature burn-out and swelling.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  6. #66
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    I sprayed PB Blaster on them last night in preparation for the new plugs arriving for this weekend. Do I need to coat the new threads in copper anti-seize? Pretty typical for spark plugs on a petro engine.

  7. #67
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    Definitely use anti-seize on the GP threads. Be sure to clean up the PB Blaster and anything else remaining once the old plugs are out. Brake cleaner works well (let it dry thoroughly).
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DmaxMaverick View Post
    Definitely use anti-seize on the GP threads. Be sure to clean up the PB Blaster and anything else remaining once the old plugs are out. Brake cleaner works well (let it dry thoroughly).
    Thanks, just wanted to make sure.

  9. #69
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    When you put in the glow plugs make sure the connectors are tight and not heat damaged, they should be a high temp type of connector and should fit tight. Just another common problem, especially if someone has been re-working the electrical.
    1996 Chvy 3500 CCDWLB 6.5 Heathed, NO vac, marine injctrs, ARB bumper, BIG pipe, 3" lift, bright lights, bypass oil system.
    1986 Chvy 6.2 M1009 blazer RAM AIR, Headers, Custom interior
    2001 Chinook RV, V10 gas
    1974 John Deere 1530 diesel tractor
    1993 John Deere 455 Diesel lawn mower
    1967 GTO, 1989 Honda Transalp
    2009 VW Jetta TDI, flashed and piped, 6speed, fun car!
    1998 6.5 suburban, stock, daughter's
    1993 6.5 3500 CCSWLB GM8, Heathed, big exhaust, gauges, Son's

    1984 6.2 ATS turbo 3500, SCDWLB - Son's
    3 kids, 1 wife, 1 dog
    Gunsmith, Tactics Instructor, Fabricator USMC 87-93 Semper Fi!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dvldog8793 View Post
    When you put in the glow plugs make sure the connectors are tight and not heat damaged, they should be a high temp type of connector and should fit tight. Just another common problem, especially if someone has been re-working the electrical.
    Good point. If they've been replaced with common plastic covered spade connectors, they don't last long. I've used them, but plan on replacing them much more often. They are made of thinner/weaker metal and the contact becomes questionable after the many heat cycles. Heavy duty silicone-covered connectors are as good as ceramic or high-temp plastic (Bako-lite, IIRC).
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  11. #71
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    Better connectors, I guess that's next. The new GPs showed up and lo and behold all the original 9G plugs came right out, no breakage. Once everything was back in and snug I tried again to start it to no avail. I got a little sputter on the first attempt to start, but after that each interval with the starter it just spun the engine till the battery weakened a bit and I gave it a rest. The connectors are probably the originals, and they slip on and off fairly easily, so I really hope that is it. Never really noticed ceramic spade connectors at Autozone or Napa, where's a good place to get them? Going through the book I feel like I have checked everything, pumps, controller and relay and now plugs. What else am I missing? At 62k miles I hope like hell it is not a compression issue because we don't have enough enough money in this thing to justify an engine rebuild.
    Last edited by Bigshankhank; 05-10-2017 at 17:07.

  12. #72
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    Maybe should have said this BEFORE you got the new GPs. One way to verify that you are getting fuel to the cylinders is to turn it over with the glow plugs out and verify fuel mist from each cylinder.
    These engines need three things to run: compression, fuel and air. I would just start to verify those. Your glow circuit sounds good and is only involved in starting. Another way to verify the glow circuit is with a clamp-on amperage meter on the main feed wire.

    I DO NOT like it, but it is possible to get it running with ether. I have done it with my 1986, it has a manual glow plug system. If you decide to try to get it started with ether....remove all power from the glow plugs and use a 50% ether. Personally I would try to verify that you are getting fuel to the cylinder before you try the ether.

    I have never seen the ceramic connectors over the counter. You should be able to find a good quality high temp/heavy duty female connector at a REAL parts store. When I replace them I solder them on with a high temp solder.

    Are you getting smoke out the tail pipe when it turns over?
    1996 Chvy 3500 CCDWLB 6.5 Heathed, NO vac, marine injctrs, ARB bumper, BIG pipe, 3" lift, bright lights, bypass oil system.
    1986 Chvy 6.2 M1009 blazer RAM AIR, Headers, Custom interior
    2001 Chinook RV, V10 gas
    1974 John Deere 1530 diesel tractor
    1993 John Deere 455 Diesel lawn mower
    1967 GTO, 1989 Honda Transalp
    2009 VW Jetta TDI, flashed and piped, 6speed, fun car!
    1998 6.5 suburban, stock, daughter's
    1993 6.5 3500 CCSWLB GM8, Heathed, big exhaust, gauges, Son's

    1984 6.2 ATS turbo 3500, SCDWLB - Son's
    3 kids, 1 wife, 1 dog
    Gunsmith, Tactics Instructor, Fabricator USMC 87-93 Semper Fi!

  13. #73
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    I am getting fuel from the injectors when I loosen them and turn the engine over, I will pull a couple of the plugs and see if I get a proper mist.

    I tried ether last week prior to replacing the GPs, though I did not disconnect them. It started momentarily but made a terrible rattle so I did not continue using it.

    Haven't looked at the tailpipe when trying to start, I'll turn around and look next time,

    Thanks.

  14. #74
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    FYI the GP controller bracket I had to fabricate.


    Old glow plugs


    Old vs new plugs

  15. #75
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    After cranking for 10-15 seconds you should see smoke from the tail pipe.
    Make sure your batteries get charged up good every night before you start trouble shooting.
    Never use ether without disconnecting the glow circuit.
    1996 Chvy 3500 CCDWLB 6.5 Heathed, NO vac, marine injctrs, ARB bumper, BIG pipe, 3" lift, bright lights, bypass oil system.
    1986 Chvy 6.2 M1009 blazer RAM AIR, Headers, Custom interior
    2001 Chinook RV, V10 gas
    1974 John Deere 1530 diesel tractor
    1993 John Deere 455 Diesel lawn mower
    1967 GTO, 1989 Honda Transalp
    2009 VW Jetta TDI, flashed and piped, 6speed, fun car!
    1998 6.5 suburban, stock, daughter's
    1993 6.5 3500 CCSWLB GM8, Heathed, big exhaust, gauges, Son's

    1984 6.2 ATS turbo 3500, SCDWLB - Son's
    3 kids, 1 wife, 1 dog
    Gunsmith, Tactics Instructor, Fabricator USMC 87-93 Semper Fi!

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dvldog8793 View Post
    After cranking for 10-15 seconds you should see smoke from the tail pipe.
    Make sure your batteries get charged up good every night before you start trouble shooting.
    Never use ether without disconnecting the glow circuit.
    If there is a lack of smoke, does that tell me I am not getting fuel? If not fuel, what is it telling me?

    Yeah, I've kept them on a trickle charger for the past few weeks while I've been trying to get it running again.

    Good to know now about the ether, but I can't undo whatever I've done to it by this point. What does the ether do to the plugs, if I may ask?

  17. #77
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    If you are seeing fuel with the injector lines loose, but not seeing fuel spray with them tight (glow plugs removed), then the IP is questionable. It may be able to push fuel at low/no pressure, but unable to pop the injectors. The injectors determine the fuel pressure (the pressure they pop), but the IP must be able to produce that pressure. Air could also be an issue. Excessive air in the system, and continued introduction of air, can prevent the injectors from popping, due to the air cushion in the lines. If the injectors can't pop, they can't move fuel or air through the lines.

    Ether and glow plugs don't mix. If the GP's are hot, the ether will ignite as soon as it is exposed to the GP. This can cause engine damage, as well as ignite back through the intake. I've seen air cleaners blown completely apart (too much ether probably had something to do with that). The heat of Diesel engine compression is enough to ignite the ether, so it will fire (that cycle) without the GP's. As said above, it is NOT recommended, under any circumstance if it can be avoided. It should ONLY be considered an emergency option. Always disconnect/disable the GP's before using it. Ether should never be used as a diagnostic tool. If you have a fuel delivery problem, work on that. Ether won't fix anything.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by DmaxMaverick View Post
    If you are seeing fuel with the injector lines loose, but not seeing fuel spray with them tight (glow plugs removed), then the IP is questionable. It may be able to push fuel at low/no pressure, but unable to pop the injectors. The injectors determine the fuel pressure (the pressure they pop), but the IP must be able to produce that pressure. Air could also be an issue. Excessive air in the system, and continued introduction of air, can prevent the injectors from popping, due to the air cushion in the lines. If the injectors can't pop, they can't move fuel or air through the lines.

    Ether and glow plugs don't mix. If the GP's are hot, the ether will ignite as soon as it is exposed to the GP. This can cause engine damage, as well as ignite back through the intake. I've seen air cleaners blown completely apart (too much ether probably had something to do with that). The heat of Diesel engine compression is enough to ignite the ether, so it will fire (that cycle) without the GP's. As said above, it is NOT recommended, under any circumstance if it can be avoided. It should ONLY be considered an emergency option. Always disconnect/disable the GP's before using it. Ether should never be used as a diagnostic tool. If you have a fuel delivery problem, work on that. Ether won't fix anything.
    All good info, thank you.
    According to the Diesel Maintenance book from the library here, testing the IP involves disconnecting the pink wire from the iggy relay and listening to hear the relay click. Mine clicks, repeatedly as I checked it several times. Just because the relay clicks though, does that mean it is pushing enough fuel at the right pressure? I guess I will test for spray this evening. Can they be rebuilt? Seems like when I checked Rockauto a replacement pump was on the order of $700.
    When I replaced all the rubber lines between my tank and lift pump I did my best to crank down on the new worm drive clamps (I replaced the old clamps at the same time), so unless it has an air leak between the lift and IP which just manifested itself I don't think I have an air leak. I have not pressure tested the tank, that can go on the list eventually.

  19. #79
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    If your mechanical lift pump works (it should, it's new, right?), a leak between the LP and IP will be an external fuel leak, not an air intrusion leak. Conduct a fuel mist test (GP's removed, all injector lines tight). If all open cylinders don't mist fuel, install a length of clear tubing at the IP return outlet, loop it, and crank the engine. Any air going through the pump will absolutely collect in the loop. If you get air in the loop (after it's purged itself), you have a leak between the tank and lift pump. Pressurizing the fuel tank can be helpful finding it (no more than 5 PSI or so on an old tank).

    Check Kennedy's site, and/or a local Stanadyne certified shop, IF it comes to the need of a replacement pump, costs should be similar, so also consider the customer service in the price. Run all the tests first, to verify a healthy or failed pump.

    The "click" heard/felt at the IP when connecting/disconnecting the pink wire is the ESS (Engine Stop Solenoid, fuel solenoid, etc.). Clicking only indicates the solenoid is working. If fuel passes through the pump with it "on", and doesn't when it's "off", it's working just fine. If it doesn't work, it will either not allow any fuel and not start/run, or it won't close, and the engine will not stop when the key is off. Keep it that simple. If it's clicking, don't mess with it. The result can be a run-away engine (and a need of clean shorts).
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  20. #80
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    ****, one of the last times it ran the engine wouldn't shut off with the key turned and even removed from the ignition switch.

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