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Duramax 6600 Discussion Forum for the Duramax 6600 Diesel Engine, including the LB7, LLY, LBZ & LMM engine specific topics.

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  #1  
Old 07-29-2010, 05:20 AM
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Mark Rinker Mark Rinker is offline
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Default P0087 - FPR replacement

The fuel line fix did not improve my ongoing P0087 issue while towing heavy and running hills. After resetting this code too many times to count yesterday, I am on a path to replace the FPR this weekend, before dragging this big boat throught the mountains west to WA state next week.

I have searched, but not found a recent thread by someone who sourced the FPR through GM Parts Direct, and did the swap themselves. If you are this person, and reading this, please give me a call at 612.578.6355 or PM me a good time and number to give you a call. Have a few questions for you.

(Jim/Greg if you know which recent thread I am referring to, please post the link here....thanks! For some reason, I can't find it this morning...it probably has more to do with no coffee left in my room, than any other factor...)
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2005 GMC Yukon Denali 6.0L gas (hey its paid for)
  • Previous owner of two 1994 6.5L K3500s, '01, '02, and '05 6.6L K2500s, '04 C4500, '06 K3500 dually, '06 K3500 SRW, '09 K3500HD SRW
  • Total GM diesel miles to date : ~950K
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  #2  
Old 07-29-2010, 05:39 AM
HMSW HMSW is offline
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I changed mine yesterday. Bought from Oregon diesel and shipped overseas.

It is tight where it is located, but possible. Have some different torxz 25 avalible together with a magnet and you will get a long way

I guess you know how to get to it?

I removed ac compressor, some cables, some hoses and the top of the thermostat housing.

Good luck
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  #3  
Old 07-29-2010, 06:03 AM
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Thanks for the info...did you have idle surging, codes set, or...?
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2005 GMC Yukon Denali 6.0L gas (hey its paid for)
  • Previous owner of two 1994 6.5L K3500s, '01, '02, and '05 6.6L K2500s, '04 C4500, '06 K3500 dually, '06 K3500 SRW, '09 K3500HD SRW
  • Total GM diesel miles to date : ~950K
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  #4  
Old 07-29-2010, 07:06 AM
Kennedy Kennedy is offline
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The term FPR best fits Fuel Pressure Regulator. This regulator seldom goes bad without surging, etc. I have been in contact with people chasing this P0087 who have changed thousands of dollars in parts and not fixed it. About the only one that I have heard that fixed it replaced the injectors which I had suggested is likely the underlying issue.


There is also the FRPR. This is a poor use of term for teh relief valve as it could be confused with the regulator valve. I just call this the safety or relief valve. In normal operation this should not cause issues, BUT pressure cycling can hit this valve and after hit a few times it can weaken. If it were weakened you'd likely never reach max psi.

Reality is that IF this valve is leaking and you replace it, shim it, etc you are only treating the symptom. You will still have pressure cycling which is a product of insufficient supply/air in fuel. Insufficient supply/air in fuel is caused by loaded filter(s), kinked lines, increased demands of heavy towing, high injector return rates, etc. To test this pull off the small hose from the rail and plug it. Add a new hose to the rail and run to a bottle and do a bottle test. That or take uit to teh dealer cold. Start it up and have them ramp the rail pressure to max. Feel the end of the rail (carefully) for heat. It will get HOT very quickly.


Insufficient supply is cured by adding a lift pump setup which ALL Duramax engines should have. We are right back to verifying the condition of the fuel supply system and also augmenting it with a little push from behind.






I wonder if GMPartsdirect has a tech line?
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Kennedy Diesel-owner
More than just a salesman-I use and test the products that I sell on a daily basis!
Superflow Lie Detector in house
2002 Chev K2500HD D/A CC Long LT 11.77@ 124mph at 7700# fuel only-e.t. needs help
2005 Chev K3500SRW D/A CC Long LT(SOLD)
2007 Chev K2500 Classic EC Short LT
2012 GMC K3500SRW D/A CC Long LTZ Happy Birthday to me! Built 1 working day after my birthday and delivered 7 days later.

Custom tuning in house using EFI Live tuning software!

Last edited by Kennedy; 07-29-2010 at 07:17 AM.
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  #5  
Old 07-30-2010, 05:03 AM
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Mark Rinker Mark Rinker is offline
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Thanks for the input, John. You have been a wealth of insite over the last year and 50K miles since this problem began. I wish you had the opportunity to ride along and see the circumstances under which the code is set.

It appears to me from the handful of recent reported cases (of P0087 codes) that each scenario is a bit different, which would lend itself to a combination of multiple factors - i.e. tired injectors, erratic FPR, weak FRPR, collapsing fuel lines, etc.

I know of one commercial hauler that fixed the issue with fuel line replacement. Recently another person here on TDP reported that an FPR replacement did the trick for him.

At this time, I have moved the FRPR down the list of likely culprits, because my codes can be set at 16K# rail pressure, or 22K# rail pressure. My IP and rail can also hold 23K# rail pressure for minutes at a time while climbing an 7% grade, in third gear at 45mph, 3000rpm without setting the code. Upshift to 5th and let RPMs drop and 'Engine Load' hit 100% - and 'bing' you have a P0087. Which gear and throttle setting requires more fuel flow?

Its not as simple as it may appear, or we'd all have solved it in the same manner, with the same part. Or, lift pumps would come from the factory on every new GM Duramax truck.

...or...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
Insufficient supply is cured by adding a lift pump setup which ALL Duramax engines should have. We are right back to verifying the condition of the fuel supply system and also augmenting it with a little push from behind.
...are you confident enough that adding a lift pump would have cured all the p0087 code problems mentioned above, i.e. overcoming fuel line restriction, FPR problems, weak/worn injectors, etc? If so - are you willing to sell your lift pump on those terms, refunding and restocking if the lift pump doesn't solve a customer's particular problem?

Question #1: Why did the truck function properly for the first 100K miles, in stock form, before starting to exhibit the p0087 code problems? i.e. what changed?

A: Wear and tear. Probably injectors, plus FPR, possibly fuel lines

Question #2 How many times can you reach up and reset the code, while driving in hot weather, in the mountains, with a loaded trailer, for the cost of a new set of injectors?

A: Many, many times in my case.


I'll tell you what you could sell alot of - that would be an ECM reflash to widen the tolerance for fuel pressure variances, or set the code without the limp. Remember - nobody reports a driveability problem, other than the one created by the limp mode!!!

__________________
2005 GMC Yukon Denali 6.0L gas (hey its paid for)
  • Previous owner of two 1994 6.5L K3500s, '01, '02, and '05 6.6L K2500s, '04 C4500, '06 K3500 dually, '06 K3500 SRW, '09 K3500HD SRW
  • Total GM diesel miles to date : ~950K

Last edited by Mark Rinker; 07-30-2010 at 05:35 AM.
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  #6  
Old 07-30-2010, 06:48 AM
Kennedy Kennedy is offline
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I've said this numerous times. There are 3 keys to a healthy happy fuel system. They all revolve around fuel quality.

1) Filtration-it just needs to be better in most cases. A secondary filter is highly recommended.

2) Lift pump- keeps the fuel liquid AND greatly improves the efficiency of your filtration. Also removes some of the workload from the CP3.

3) Quality additive-FPPF Total power in every tank. Cleans, lubricates, safely removes water, improves combustion.


These are not gurantees, but sure go a long way to a healthy happy fuel system. Unfortunately they should be implemented early on and not at 130k after the onset of trouble.


Eventually I hope to have something in tuning to help this, but until then...
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Kennedy Diesel-owner
More than just a salesman-I use and test the products that I sell on a daily basis!
Superflow Lie Detector in house
2002 Chev K2500HD D/A CC Long LT 11.77@ 124mph at 7700# fuel only-e.t. needs help
2005 Chev K3500SRW D/A CC Long LT(SOLD)
2007 Chev K2500 Classic EC Short LT
2012 GMC K3500SRW D/A CC Long LTZ Happy Birthday to me! Built 1 working day after my birthday and delivered 7 days later.

Custom tuning in house using EFI Live tuning software!
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  #7  
Old 07-31-2010, 05:28 PM
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Mark Rinker Mark Rinker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
Eventually I hope to have something in tuning to help this, but until then...
...buy a Kennedy Diesel 1) mega filtration system, 2) lift pump, and 3) case of FPPF !

__________________
2005 GMC Yukon Denali 6.0L gas (hey its paid for)
  • Previous owner of two 1994 6.5L K3500s, '01, '02, and '05 6.6L K2500s, '04 C4500, '06 K3500 dually, '06 K3500 SRW, '09 K3500HD SRW
  • Total GM diesel miles to date : ~950K
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  #8  
Old 08-02-2010, 06:44 AM
Kennedy Kennedy is offline
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I'm not your typical salesman in that I often talk people out of doing some things like bombing their Dmax's. When I push a product there is a definite reason. These trucks run SO nice with a gentle push on the fuel system.
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Kennedy Diesel-owner
More than just a salesman-I use and test the products that I sell on a daily basis!
Superflow Lie Detector in house
2002 Chev K2500HD D/A CC Long LT 11.77@ 124mph at 7700# fuel only-e.t. needs help
2005 Chev K3500SRW D/A CC Long LT(SOLD)
2007 Chev K2500 Classic EC Short LT
2012 GMC K3500SRW D/A CC Long LTZ Happy Birthday to me! Built 1 working day after my birthday and delivered 7 days later.

Custom tuning in house using EFI Live tuning software!
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  #9  
Old 08-02-2010, 09:36 AM
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An old stand-by troubleshooting test developed here in The Diesel Page more than ten years ago, for the 6.2/6.5, to help determine whether a stalling/low power/hard start problem might be due to worn fuel injection system parts is to:

Once the fuel level in the tank is down to about 5 gallons, create a mix of 4.5-gallons of diesel fuel and 2 quarts of 30W motor oil in a separate fuel container, and pour it into the tank. This will result in a 5% oil mix in the fuel tank. If the added fuel viscosity temporarily solves the problem or lessens the symptoms, you've learned something. Worn parts are the likely problem. Once the troubleshooting is complete, fill the tank with straight diesel.

The oil won't hurt the engine or fuel injection system, but I'd not do this in a 2007+ truck equipped with a diesel particulate filter in the exhaust system.

If increasing fuel viscosity helps, you have a choice of either replacing the high pressure pump or injectors. I'm not sure whether the FPR would be helped by added fuel viscosity.

Jim
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  #10  
Old 08-02-2010, 07:45 PM
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Mark Rinker Mark Rinker is offline
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Update: Took the boat/trailer out for a test run this morning, was able to reproduce the P0087. On the bright side, the lopey idle is now gone thanks to the FPR replacement.

So, today I plumbed in a lift pump along the driver's side frame rail in the open, available space just ahead of the fuel cooler (Yes I know those are the small diameter return lines to/from the cooler, the large supply line is there, too ) and behind where the antilock brake controller lives. We'll see if it makes any difference - if it does, I'll eat a big slice of humble pie for not installing it, first.

Probably just as Kennedy first theorized - ball/seat erosion on the original sprays at 150K miles. If thats the case, and none of the three known remedies (installed in combination) fix the problem, I'll continue to push the SES reset button in the summertime, loaded, and in the hills.

Somebody is going to code around this problem eventually.


__________________
2005 GMC Yukon Denali 6.0L gas (hey its paid for)
  • Previous owner of two 1994 6.5L K3500s, '01, '02, and '05 6.6L K2500s, '04 C4500, '06 K3500 dually, '06 K3500 SRW, '09 K3500HD SRW
  • Total GM diesel miles to date : ~950K

Last edited by Mark Rinker; 08-02-2010 at 08:02 PM.
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