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Duramax 6600 Discussion Forum for the Duramax 6600 Diesel Engine, including the LB7, LLY, LBZ & LMM engine specific topics.

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  #1  
Old 11-30-2010, 05:43 PM
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Mark Rinker Mark Rinker is offline
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Default 2009 LMM regen frequency = every 357 miles

You got it. Local dealership pulled the stats during a routine checkup. My suspicions were confirmed, that its regenning about once per tankful, for the first 25K of service. ~105 gallons of extra #2 at $3.10/gallon = $325 worth of fuel consumed by regens.

When I was there, a guy with a new 2011 K2500HD was getting his first urea refill - at 6000 miles. Shop bill was $50.


Rough extrapolation is DPF and (dealership installed) urea could cost a whopping ~$2200 during first 100K of operation.
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2010, 06:21 AM
madmatt madmatt is offline
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Mark is this LMM one of the trucks you tow with frequently??
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:09 PM
richp richp is offline
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Hi,

Well I have something, although it might not be very catchy -- questions nobody seems to care about.

Over the life of a truck, how much extra fuel will be consumed by regeneration, in relation to the alleged savings in pollution output?

With regard to the 2011 machines, what is the extra cost to the consumer for not just the urea, but the additional hardware on the engine, and how does that compare with any asserted savings in pollution output for that engine?

How much farther can this go before owning a diesel is no longer cost-effective for anyone (unlike Mark) who does not tow constantly?

When the market to guys like me -- who could conceivably get away with towing with a gasser -- dries up, what will manufacturers do when light truck diesel sales dwindle?

When will this stupidity stop? The government has screwed up both the automotive market and that of the food industry with its ethanol subsidies (which AlGore recently acknowledged was a mistake to advocate) -- lowering fuel economy, increasing corn prices, etc. They advocate and subsidize (with our tax dollars) electric vehicles that can't go very far, go even less distance when you have to use a heater in the winter or air conditioner in the summer, and rely on electricity supplied by a grid that can't expand efficiently due to other Federal regulations. This continual Federal pressure to squeeze the last few percentages of pollution out of the cleanest vehicle fleet in the world is ridiculous.
(Tirade off.)

FWIW.
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2010, 03:20 PM
hapaschold hapaschold is offline
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mark,

how was information stored ? number of regens and duration ?

i ll have to ask when i take my 09 in early next week..

or maybe i wont given the last few months of crap i ve been going thru.
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2010, 08:58 PM
madmatt madmatt is offline
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I've asked those very questions before myself. I've been told it cost around $6k to outfit each truck with the urea related equipment.
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2010, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmatt View Post
Mark is this LMM one of the trucks you tow with frequently??
Yes...its my ONLY truck remaining, so its my tow vehicle, plow truck, etc...
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  • Previous owner of two 1994 6.5L K3500s, '01, '02, and '05 6.6L K2500s, '04 C4500, '06 K3500 dually, '06 K3500 SRW, '09 K3500HD SRW
  • Total GM diesel miles to date : ~950K
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2010, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richp View Post
Over the life of a truck, how much extra fuel will be consumed by regeneration, in relation to the alleged savings in pollution output?

I would guess MUCH more. I don't see how ~300-500 gallons of extra fuel burned by each DPF equipped Duramax on the road in the first 150K miles can be environmentally friendly. Now add Fords, Dodges, etc...

With regard to the 2011 machines, what is the extra cost to the consumer for not just the urea, but the additional hardware on the engine, and how does that compare with any asserted savings in pollution output for that engine?

Don't know...

How much farther can this go before owning a diesel is no longer cost-effective for anyone (unlike Mark) who does not tow constantly?

Its not that effective for me, either...ask my wife...or my accountant.

When the market to guys like me -- who could conceivably get away with towing with a gasser -- dries up, what will manufacturers do when light truck diesel sales dwindle?

Hopefully march on the EPA headquarters with torches. Cali CARB offices, next...

When will this stupidity stop?

Soon we can all pray, but I don't see how, or when.


The government has screwed up both the automotive market and that of the food industry with its ethanol subsidies (which AlGore recently acknowledged was a mistake to advocate) -- lowering fuel economy, increasing corn prices, etc. They advocate and subsidize (with our tax dollars) electric vehicles that can't go very far, go even less distance when you have to use a heater in the winter or air conditioner in the summer, and rely on electricity supplied by a grid that can't expand efficiently due to other Federal regulations. This continual Federal pressure to squeeze the last few percentages of pollution out of the cleanest vehicle fleet in the world is ridiculous.
(Tirade off.)

It is ridiculous. I would love to see a documentary on the Duramax, from 2001 - 2011, chronicling the engineering pressures to meet EPA regs, the effect on $$$, the effect on the environment.

Madness.



FWIW.

Alot.
(My thoughts are in bold italics, above...)
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2005 GMC Yukon Denali 6.0L gas (hey its paid for)
  • Previous owner of two 1994 6.5L K3500s, '01, '02, and '05 6.6L K2500s, '04 C4500, '06 K3500 dually, '06 K3500 SRW, '09 K3500HD SRW
  • Total GM diesel miles to date : ~950K
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2010, 06:15 PM
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It's even worse than that. Regeneration converts inert carbon trapped in the DPF into CO2, the very thing every tree hugger is complaining is causing global warming. In the process it uses extra fuel, which produces more CO2 and no benefit.
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  #9  
Old 12-02-2010, 08:14 PM
richp richp is offline
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Hi,

This whole situation reminds me of that great line from Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid, where Butch says, "I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."

Why is it that a bunch of old farts like us can so clearly identify the flaws in these policies, and yet all those supposedly smart folks in Washington can't?

Hang in there folks, the next few years are really going to be interesting....
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  #10  
Old 12-03-2010, 05:25 AM
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From my perspective, the squeeking wheel gets greased ($$$)...the marginalized or less represented have a harder time getting policy change in their favor.

Also the whole topic of junk science and policy...

Personally, I think this is the new USA - love it or leave it. My plan is to cooperate voluntarily less and less - i.e. the DPF comes off. As for urea - well, there should be a workaround available for that, soon enough.

__________________
2005 GMC Yukon Denali 6.0L gas (hey its paid for)
  • Previous owner of two 1994 6.5L K3500s, '01, '02, and '05 6.6L K2500s, '04 C4500, '06 K3500 dually, '06 K3500 SRW, '09 K3500HD SRW
  • Total GM diesel miles to date : ~950K
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