300HP diesel

[JohnThomson]

I own a 90 suburban gasser, and I am going to install a 300 HP diesel next year (I have Avant in mind, even though I have the same problem as other members! Getting hold of Jamie is hard smile.gif but I am not giving up ! ) are there anybody out there who have done it, and have any rear wheel numbers? like HP? and torque? I am going to change from auto to manuel transmission (NV4500)any suggestions, or things I should be mindfull of? or take under consideration?

[computer monkey]

http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/swap.htm

Have you looked other place on the forum?

[JohnThomson]

Yes I have read what I could find in here, and there is also some info on what I want to do outside this forum, but I have not come across any actual dyno figures yet, and if anybody should know! Some actual milage figures would be nice too.

[rjschoolcraft]

Contact John Kennedy at Kennedy Diesel (http://www.kennedydiesel.com/). His 96 performed on a level with the Project Truck... and he had some dyno numbers.

[JoeyD]

Keep in mind you will never see 300 rwhp from a 6.5. I know new stuff is comming out but I think it's doubtfull it will hit 300. If your set on making big rear wheel power you need to think Cummins. It's a popular swap in the trucks and a Burb would be no different.

[britannic]

Peninsular have a 400HP 6.5 twin turbo truck engine, so 300rwhp is definitely a reality, check out the specs:
400HP Twin Turbo 6.5LTD (http://www.peninsulardiesel.com/trucks.htm) http://www.peninsulardiesel.com/pics/trucktt3.gif

[whatnot]

Or you could get a 400HP one from MarineDiesel. They have a supercharger, DB4 injection pump and 15:1 compression.
http://www.marinedieselusa.com/65%20specs.pdf

[britannic]

It would need some work to make it streetable though...


Originally posted by whatnot:
Or you could get a 400HP one from MarineDiesel. They have a supercharger, DB4 injection pump and 15:1 compression.
http://www.marinedieselusa.com/65%20specs.pdf

[grape]

if you do the math on marine diesel's dyno graph you'll see they are lying. It's physically impossible to make that amount of torque and that much horsepower at the same time. The figure at 1500 rpm is way off, by about 25 horse on the high side with the amount of torque they are showing.

[rjschoolcraft]

Peak torque and peak horsepower do not occur at the same point on the engine speed curve. The two numbers reported in their table are not related directly.

For instance, the peak power reported for the hammerhead is 300 hp at 3600 rpm. At that point, the engine is making 438 lb-ft of torqe. Peak torque is reported as 501 lb-ft at 1700 rpm. At that point the engine is making 162 hp.

[grape]

I just looked at their dyno sheets and they are different from the ones I saw a few months back. Must have changed some things.

[JohnThomson]

Thnaks for the inputs. But I was merely trying to find out what a 300 shaft horsepower engine would give me at the rear wheels. Before I found out about The Diesel Depot in Sandersville Georgia, i had even considered the Cummins aproach, but then i heard about the Duramax, and Spalding Salvage in Washington had a complete 3000 miles with Allison and electronic transfercase Duramax lying around, but with the timeframe I am looking at, and working abroad for long streches of time, it would'nt work. so I will stick with the Avants and by the way i spoke to Jamie today smile.gif who had some info to a question I had regarding the turbo, I think he mentioned the name Bill Heath, I am not sure the name is spelled right, who told him that a 2000 Cummins wastegated turbo, would be an even better choise for the engine, since it could deliver a continues boost of around 18 psi, that sounded pretty interesting, and I am looking forward to hear what he have found out about that. in the meantime I am still interested to hear what people have to say about the 300 HP diesel! good and bad.

[RLAM]

You can contact Bill at Heath diesel power.com.
He is one of the best guy's that I know of to ask for information. I have done a little business with him and found him to be very plesant to deal with. Good luck with your project.

[grape]

I'm opening this deal back up because those dyno sheets on marinediesel usa's site are completely ficticious. At 1750 it shows they are making 500 ft lbs and 200 hp.............not possible. 500x1750/5252 = 166. how do they magically get 200 hp????????

[More Power]

Trucks with the 300 hp Duramax have been dyno'ed a bazillion times, producing anywhere from 230-250 rear wheel horsepower. Depending on how long the dyno tech pulls the data, that big 21" fan and fan-clutch will be engaged, pulling air through the intercooler - which ultimately helps power numbers even though there is a loss to the fan load.

Getting an efficient intercooler to work on a 6.5 while on a dyno is a challenge unless you can place it in front of the rad.

MP

[grape]

my question is just the math and integrity of the buisiness that puts out information that is so easily proved to be contradictive of itself. 500 ft lbs of torque at 2000 rpm is a smidge over 190 hp .........PERIOD. It can't possibly be anything more or less.


on a side note.....my powerstroke intercooler does fit in front of the radiator on my 82 bodystyle truck.....with lots of fabrication.

[CleviteKid]

grape:

Please define -


. . . lots of fabrication Thanx, Dr. Lee :cool:

[eracers999]

All the dyno work i have done and seen with gassers you always figure in a correction factor witch changes the dyno numbers for the better. Unless diesels are different?
Kent

[grape]

but we are talking about the same dyno graph, correction factors shouldn't change on 1 graph. HP is figured from torque only......no other way to do it. ALL DYNOS MEASURE TORQUE FIRST THEN PLUG THAT INTO THE FORMULA. So the torque gets corrected before it goes into the formula......nope I have my theory and I'm calling BS. And if somebody is gonna talk to me about an inertia Dyno junk dyno save your breath, I've run a superflow for the better part of 8 years now, and those dyno jets show the same power at the rear tire we get at the crankshaft with a superflow......no thanks.

[rjschoolcraft]

Again, I say, the peak torque and peak power don't come at the same engine rpm. Look at the data for my Suburban in 6.5 Performance (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006650). Peak power was 223 HP and peak torque was 428 lb-ft. They didn't happen at the same rpm. The 223 HP came at 3285 rpm. There the engine was producing 357 lb-ft. Peak torque came at 2555 rpm. There the engine was producing 208 HP. HP is related to torque by the following: P = T X N/5252 where P is power in HP, T is torque in lb-ft and N is speed in rpm. The 5252 is a constant to get the units to work out right. Peak power almost always occurs at a higher rpm than peak torque, because speed also influences power.

[grape]

I never said peak torque and hp should be at the same rpm. What I said was, at one point on the graph....the hp number and the torque number didn't add up if you put the torque number in the hp formula. Yours adds up, 357 ft/lbs at 3285 is 223. Marine diesel usa has some kind of crazy figure that shows 100 hp at 1000 rpm with only 200 ft/lbs of torque........impossible. 100hp at 1000 rpm is 525 ft/lbs.

[rjschoolcraft]

OK, I see your point.

[Dieselboy]

There's a good article in this month's Hot Rod magazine that deals with the different chassis dynos out there, how they measure power, and what their typical % error is like.

[RLAM]

Geee Guy's, IM glad you got that sorted out. What I want to know is, how fast will my 68 Datsun pick up go if I install a 6.5 twin turbo?

[surfbeetle]

DON'T USE THE NV4500!!! check out the dodge Turbo Diesel Registry forum at www.tdr1.com. (http://www.tdr1.com.) The most common problem is that the 5th gear nut will eventually pound itself off of the spline and you get an extra spot for neutral. If you are going to a Cummins and a manual trans, get the six speed NV5600. Also, keep in mind that dodge's High Output originally only came with the six speed. Good luck.

[Dieselboy]

You can purchase an updated fifth gear nut that solves the "backing off" problem factory NV4500s tend to experience. I believe that Brittanic has done this on his tranny, so he would have more details.

The NV5600 has an integral bellhousing, and isn't available with a Chevy pattern. I think I remember someone saying that an aftermarket suppier had another bellhousing.

[LucasEnglish]

I would do a Cummins. Look over this Fourm. All you see is problems form HG to broke cranks. You go to the Cummins forum TDR I hardly ever read about motor poblems. A 6.5TD with over 200k and no major problems is rare. I have seen Cummins with over 300k and have never had a problem. Plus you can make some real power. There are 3 12v at my track runing high 13s and one runing low 12s I know the one in the 12s maks around 1000ftlbs and 500hp. Cummins guys talk about mods real mods and 6.5 guys talk about problems or how to prevent them.

[surfbeetle]

While there is a fix for the NV4500, it is still problematic, there are several people on at tdr1.com that say that they have had the fix on their trannys but still have had problems. One other thought to ponder... I bought my 95 cummins dodge new, have over 130,000 miles. I have only been stranded twice because the batteries went dead. My 6.5 97 suburban is currently in the shop AGAIN waiting for another injection pump. I have only owned it for two years and have done two injection pumps. It too has 130,000 miles and in that time according to the GM service history will have had SIX injection pumps once I get it back. I fuel it at the same station that I fuel the Dodge at. My point is that if you want dependability and power, choose the Cummins and either the newest automatic or the NV5600.

[Mike Pope]

You'd be insane to actually spend money to put a 6.5 diesel in a place it wasn't originally. If you are going to do a diesel conversion, it's a no-brainer.......... do the Cummins. I'm not sure if I'll ever buy another GM product as long as I live after having owned a 6.5! :mad: It is by far the worst diesel I've owned. Sure, you can spend boatloads of money on them and MAYBE end up with something powerful and reliable, but WHY?

By the way, I also have a 1985 Suburban w/a 12v Cummins. NO engine problems at all. I can actually get in, start it, and drive somewhere without wondering if it will make it! Now I'm just torn between swapping a cummins into my wifes 1995 (much more difficult than the older ones) and running it off a cliff. :D I wish I could afFord an Excursion! :eek:

[JeepSJ]

Ahhhh, the insanity. I resemble that remark.