View Full Version : the juice dyno charts!
CUMINNTSTRKN
03-26-2002, 15:35
well guys i was out surfing today and saw that edge has the dynocharts up for the juice. http://www.edgeproductsinc.com/chart_dura.html
they look pretty good. i just got off the horn with them and they told me about another feture the juice has.
the way you select the power level that you want is all done with the tranny shifter. you select what you want to set either tow or haul then you put the tranny selecter in whatever setting you want.
1st gear = level 1
2nd gear = level 2
then you press the throttle down 3 times and it's set. this is done with out the truck running. :eek: i don't think that edge sells directly to customers anymore but bd is a great place to get these.
if you have any ? call aaron at edge.
jim
I would guess that the selection is using the same process as the system that resets the oil light. Do you know if this will affect this feature of the pickups or not? Anyway, that is about the coolest thing I have heard all day!!
Thanks again CUMINNTSRKN for the valuable information.
Seven
On Edit: Looks like ~330RWHP and ~680RWTQ...Impressive!!
[ 03-26-2002: Message edited by: 7mmSTW ]</p>
pullinpower
03-26-2002, 17:04
Sounds great so far,I thought they were going to make alittle more power than the "rest" of the box's?
CUMINNTSTRKN
03-26-2002, 17:20
there box gives as much power as the stock tranny will take. it monitors the tranny and when the tranny starts to slip it turns down the power so you don't go into limp mode. this box is going to be tuff to beat.
jim
Sounds good!!!!
Now we just need to find the right place to buy it from. No one wants to get juiced buying the Juice! smile.gif
I have to wonder why this truck, stock, goes into limp mode instead of just powering down.
I figure if it's smart enough to detect slip the why not just reduce power.
I think we want something that toughens up the Allison a little. After all it's a med duty tranny correct? A little more clutch pressure is all we are asking for. Just a little so it can handle 600 tq. After all, doesn't the Pikes Peak truck use a little old 4L80E?
[ 03-26-2002: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>
They sell direct but over priced. I got this E-mail down below. They are cheaper @ An advertiser here. I have another post that has the link entitled THE JUICE read that post.
MAC
We can put you on a list and it could be possible that you receive one this
week maybe. The juice will retail for 849.00
Thanks,
Aaron Stewart
Edgeproductsinc.com
5875 South Adams Ave. Parkway
Suite 100
Ogden, Ut. 84405
801-476-3343
801-476-3348Fax
:D
[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
HOOT,
DUDE,
Here is your answer ------->http://www.transmissionspecialist.com/Pages/Gvalve.htm
Call let us know .
MAC
:D
mackin
you have a price?
Web site was under construction in the priceing catagory. smile.gif
Now if we could get the rev limiter raised to 4200 and get that 6th gear working.... WOOHOOO!! :D :D :D :D :D :D
-Rick
CUMINNTSTRKN
03-26-2002, 18:50
i don't know if it will go into limp mode but it will throw a code and turn on the ses.
the allsion has the same problems that the ford and dodge tranny's have. the need more pressure to keep the clutches from slipping. the only difference is that the allison is smart enough to know it's slipping. that's were the box is nice becuase it will turn the powe down before the computer see's it slipping. they will be doing some more towing testing this week.
as i said call www.bd-power.com they will be selling them.
jim
SoCalDMAX
03-26-2002, 18:55
mcfly,
I can just see it now...
"There is no way that the officer could possibly have caught me on radar doing 150mph in a school zone, your Honor! It's a DIESEL! It has a governor on it!"
Something tells me this is not too far in the future... ;)
Regards, Steve
"the way you select the power level that you want is all done with the tranny shifter. you select what you want to set either tow or haul then you put the tranny selecter in whatever setting you want.
1st gear = level 1
2nd gear = level 2"
So, how does one change the settings for a manual tranny? Maybe "The Juice" is only for Ally equipped trucks? :(
Edge's website has about 4 boxes for the Cummins. I would assume if enough manual trannys exist they'll build one to push the 6spd clutch to it's limits too! smile.gif
CUMINNTSTRKN
03-26-2002, 19:30
wally
call aaron at edge and ask him, i never asked that ?.
1-801-476-3343
jim
Edge now has dyno comparisons to the BD Dynomite box on their website.
I must not be looking at the charts incorrectly as the 70hp/140ft-lb Dynomite looks a bit short in the numbers. Wonder why the Dynomite can only manage an extra 140ft-lbs?
On the otherhand, if these numbers are even close to being accurate Edge has done an old fashion arse kicking! More durable and higher performance.
pullinpower
03-27-2002, 18:09
Seems as if the edge has got a edge on the competion :D
pinehill
03-27-2002, 18:47
Does Edge/Juice raise common rail fuel pressure, or do they just play with injection timing/duration? I can't believe that the earlier boxes which raised pressures are helping with the fuel leakage problems.
I was told that they didn't raise the pressure like the other boxes do. They said that there was a lot of room to play with just in timing alone.
Later
Seven
pullinpower
03-28-2002, 09:28
So edge didnt bump the fuel psi up any? Only timing,huh Must be alot of room for improvement in that area to see 90hp-200ft/lbs.They had to go up on the fuel some just not to the extent the other box's do.
To get the extra power you need more fuel no doubt about it. I would say if you are not upping pressure then you would have to play with the injector pulse width to get the extra fuel.
With any luck some of us may have one of these puppies by the weekend and will be posting some "real world" results. :D
BMDMAX
Amianthus
03-28-2002, 09:59
Originally posted by BMDMAX,
"To get the extra power you need more fuel no doubt about it."
Not quite.
While I don't disagree that more fuel is the ultimate vehicle to power, timing alone can get you more power. The downside to advancing the timing that much is that you wind up with greater emssions and manufacturer's cannot do that. Timing will get you lower EGT's, more power, better economy. But will also give you more soot and smoke. The Edge EZ gave me around 40 HP with timing alone (obviously, a different application). I don't know exactly what they've done, but for my Cummins, they've done very well. Hope you have the same luck.
I guess my context was along the highest results that the box has to offer. Since it is a variable power setting device maybe the lower gains come from just adjusting the timing. Since the DMAX breathes pretty well, especially with a filter/airbox mod and a 4-inch exhaust the only thing left for the box to do on the balls-out setting is give the engine more fuel to work with.
I have not seen anything that leads me to believe that there is a big increase in fuel pressure with the Juice so I figured injector pulse was the solution.
At any rate for the big gains you gotta have more fuel. ;)
I just got off the phone w/ Aaron form the edgeproductsinc.com. He said that they achieve the results by modifing the injector pulse width, timing and falsifying the bost value. I asked him do the increase the fuel pressure and he said that they do not.
Hope this helps in you decisions.
-Rick
The Juice seems very interesting. I just got off the Phone with Aaron at Edge.
He states the fuel pressure is not raised above stock. Timing and mapping of the fuel is what was done. He also states the a 4 inch exhaust vice the stock exhaust only gave five more hp with the box. He also states with the box EGT's are the same with stock or 4 inch exhaust. He also said the stock truck with no box can reach EGT's of 1400 and with the box the EGT's are 100 to 150 degrees lower.
Aaron also told me they are using a 8000 pound trailer for their testing. Towing they have not seen an increase in EGT over stock, infact the EGT's have been lower. They are not setting any SES codes or defueling with the box towing either. On the dyno they have simulated trailer up to and over 20K with out any temperature problems. Also if the allison starts to slip when the torque converter is locked the HP is backed off until it quites slipping. Then the HP is slowly reapplied. This is all done before the truck sets any codes or defuels.
It really sounds to me like this box will please those of us that use are trucks to pull 10K or more. Seems like the best box available for towing so far. It also seems like the hot rodders will really like this box too.
I was also told I should see a slight increase in fuel mpg when empty with the Juice. Nothing goes in the cab of the truck. It can easily be removed to take the truck in for warrenty work.
Aaron stated they will start shipping 1 April. Thy will sell direct for a while. The cost is 849.00 and it has a 1 year warrenty.
I have yet to see any one else selling it. I wounder is Kennedy Diesel going to sell it? The dyno charts are quite impressive. I really like the torque curve. Looks good for towing.
DIESELDESTROYER
03-28-2002, 11:05
Hello everybody, Moe from usdieselparts.com and Gomer's Warehouse.
Right now the juice is only available for the automatics. But Edge says they are coming together for one on the manuals. The programming is basically the same.
ford2chevy
03-28-2002, 11:11
I don't feel like dumping another $800 into a box. Maybe BD or VA with have a program update to 120HP 250ft lbs over stock or it looks like they won't sell any more. You gotta love competition!!!! smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif
the way you select the power level that you want is all done with the tranny shifter. you select what you want to set either tow or haul then you put the tranny selecter in whatever setting you want.
1st gear = level 1
2nd gear = level 2
then you press the throttle down 3 times and it's set. this is done with out the truck running. i don't think that edge sells directly to customers anymore but bd is a great place to get these.
Any update on if it affect the resetting of the oil light?
DIESELDESTROYER
03-28-2002, 12:15
The horspower range is 40-60-75-90. You get to use 2 settings at time. You use your gear shifter settings: P(park) 40 Hp R(Reverse) 60Hp
N(nuetral) 75Hp D(Drive) 90Hp
You use the tow haul button to decide which setting you want. Example: whith engine off turn key to on, leave in park, push tow haul button and push your gas pedal down 3 times. Now you are set at 40Hp on tow haul driving. Now you can set the shifter to "D" turn the tow haul off and push the pedal down three times. Now you are set at 90Hp with out tow haul on.
Pretty Cool! The installation is going to be one simple plug in.
Can I change the setting on the fly? ;)
Hoot,
When you program the box KOEO (key on engine off) you select the setting via the gearshift indicator as Moe stated. You select TWO settings. One for tow/haul OFF, and one for tow/haul ON. Turning the tow/haul on or off switches the settings on the fly.
You could set both to 90HP so engaging tow/haul does nothing, OR you could set 90 HP with tow/haul off and cut it back to one of the lesser levels with tow/haul engaged, or vice-versa.
So simple it sounds complicated...
Can't wait to get my hands on one!
Their website does not seem to be working? Anyone else having this problem?
sonofagun
03-28-2002, 14:08
John,
Are you going to become a dealer for them?
Bob
Hoot ,
I lost your E mail addy.
If you still got mine E mail me in ref. to the Edge. If you are considering it.
MAC
son of a gun,
It all depends if I like it. I'm almost certain it will be good, but it is an unknown at this point just like all the others were.
mackin
Did you get your ordered yet?
pullinpower
03-28-2002, 21:29
I would like to see a few on some trucks and lets do some feild testing. :D
Here is my email.... hoot@uscom.com
Well I guess I'll bitch again about this featureless forum. I have my email in my profile and everything turned on but I can't see it in our profile. I also noticed no one elses is showing.
What is the big frigin deal with this forum?
Hey, maybe the new moderators can talk the high and mighty into giving up a little.
No post delete
No e-mail showing in the profile
No pictures
No links in the body of the post
How about lightening up a bit. We should be able to choose if we want our email showing in our profile or not. If we don't type it in our profile, there is no way anyone could hack it.
[ 03-28-2002: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>
pullinpower
03-30-2002, 15:57
I would support being able to post pics to show someone how to do something.If we wouldn't abuse it.
Pullinpower,
I do not think abuse is ,was the reason. ---->http://forum.62-65-dieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=000001&p=
I think now this is my opinion, that they can't fix the problem. If there is a "HACKER" he has built himself an extensive firewall and cannot be traced. I believe what they need to do probably have to have better security themselves on a new server. With better forum software like the thought they were getting when they switched. Probably real expensive and they are waiting for someone to get bold make a mistake, get caught, or go away. Mean while we will suffer, but not all of the blame belongs on the people who manage this site but the BUTTHEAD who is screwing with it.... If this is the case.
MAC :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
ON EDIT: I can't believe how far off topic this thread is. From dyno numbers to no PICS sucks. WOW
I edited to say that some where here there was a post from MP about an infiltration on this forum. He even offered a reward. There has been no update to as they have been caught and this forum has not returned to the glory days yet. That is why I have come to this conclusion.
[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
Seems to be a very fragile forum. I too would thing the software would be more stable. One thing is for certain, limiting url's, emails, and pictures has been proven to be no solution to the problem.
stillracing
03-30-2002, 19:21
I found it interesting that the stock exhaust is almost as good as the 4" exhaust in their tests. Today I removed the cat. on my CA model and installed the 49 state catless pipe. I'm waiting for the Flowmaster 4" Diesel muffler wholesale to me $105.00. Total cost for this conversion $350.00. Next install Juice.
When selecting a power level for TOW/HAUL does this affect the operation of TOW/HAUL. Does it still lockup the TC in 2nd gear, does grade breaking still function the same way? Does anyone know?
-Rick
Does the power selectyion that is made stay programmed in until a change, or is this something you need to do everytime you fire up?
More Power
04-01-2002, 12:09
A picture link, an email link, or a URL link are all executable lines of code in a BB with the code turned on.
Now Hoot..... Collect your toys and take them to those sites that you feel are up to your standards. Obviously, this one doesn't suit you.
What I have never been able to figure out is why you keep bitching. If I don't like a web site, or grocery store or brand of pickup truck, I simply avoid it. Sounds so simple doesn't it.
MP
[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: More Power ]</p>
The programming of the box's mode stays in place until you command it otherwise with the APP procedure. If in tow/haul, it will perform the same shifting routine as before and vice-versa. The normal operation of the transmission will not be affected.
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