View Full Version : DiabloSport Predator programmer coming in a few weeks
This product is being released in a couple of weeks for the duramax.
This is what it looks like:
http://www.runninwiththedevil.com/
Here is some information on the unit itself (some of the parameters will be different on a diesel):
1: Screen size is 300% larger than the competition. Bigger IS better.
2: Files can be downloaded from the internet which allows for future updates and programming.
3: Quicker program installation than the competition.
4: 30-day money back guarantee.
5: LIFETIME WARRANTY!
6: Full OBD_II Diagnostic software
7. User adjustability. the user can set their own parameters. Choose from DiabloSport's performance program or create your own:
a. Raise and lower rev limiter
b. Advance or retard ignition timing
c. Richen or lean fuel mixture
d. Correct speedometer for gear changes and/tire sizes
e. Turn on fans at lower temperatures.
I asked how this product would compare with The Juice and the Power Loader, and this was the response:
"I can guarantee you the gains will be as good or better than the other programmers on the market today. The Predator will also be more complete with more functions and the best OBD-2 Diagnostics setup of any programmer."
The price will be around $495 with the 'base tune'. The software used to program the unit is called "Revolution" which will be available to tuners. DiabloSports have been making programmers/ chips for Ford and Dodge diesels for quite some time, so they know what they're doing.
I'm in no way associated with DiabloSports, I'm just trying to decide which power adder to go with for my truck and right now I think this product might be the one. I can't wait to see what the actual numbers will be like once the product is released.
[ 12-27-2002: Message edited by: c5dura ]</p>
pullinpower
09-29-2002, 12:58
Sounds interesting that you can download the updates with our computer and install in the truck. sounds good.
Yeah, that's a great feature. I believe they are planning to have several different performance tunes available for you to download from their web site, depending on your mods.
Btw, when you load the new program into your PCM, the stock program is backed up inside the unit so that you can restore it anytime you go to the dealer.
Also, when you go back to stock, you're free to load the performance program into another truck if you want.
Here is a link to the Predator manual in pdf format:
http://www.runninwiththedevil.com/files/predatorbeta.pdf
Note that this manual is for the GM gas engines, but a lot of the stuff applies to the D/A as well.
c5dura
pullinpower,
You better watch out for the "Super"============>"Juice" you better turn that duramaximizer knob round and round......
MAC :D :D :D
pullinpower
09-29-2002, 19:50
Mackin,its stays full bore all the time :D
I don't see where it is for the duramax. I looked at the application list and it's all gassers. Am I missing something?
The Duramax version is still a couple of weeks out according to DiabloSports. I'll hopefully be able to get a hold of the manual for that version soon to see exactly what parameters can be changed.
After seeing posts like "Juice almost killed me" and stuff like that about guys using too much power when traction is limited, I can see a DISTINCT advantage to a box that can be shut down or "neutered" to a point of something reasonable for rain or snow :eek:
Alli-max
10-04-2002, 07:31
Yea, I can see you know JK.... Stacked boxes turned all the way up, and smokin dezuls spring removal in 2WD in the WI snow..... Sounds like fun huh. :eek: tongue.gif
The Predator for the Duramax will be ready on Jan. 1st. There may be a short time delay due to the holidays though. More information can be found on my site, located below in my signature. I will also have more information for the forums soon!
I'm also now a supporting sponsor/vendor if this fine site!
[ 12-23-2002: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>
RWTD
Let me first say Welcome.....
Looking forward to more info.....I Was looking forward to it's introduction, we'll she how it stacks right quickly.....Where do you ultimately think the power level will reach???At or near the competition???? Any dyno readings to be had, and are the 80Hp Rear Wheel numbers???
Might as well get you busy right out of the gate..... ;)
I personally Like the back up stock configuration for reload when necessary.....This was my obstacle of jumping on board a reflash....
Thanks in advance.....
MAC
[ 12-23-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
DiabloSport uses their new SuperFlow chassis dyno to gather all of their inputs and #'s, and these machines tend to usually be on the conservative side, that is if you were comparing to a Dynojet. The two tunes of 60 and 80 rear wheel horsepower should be spot on if not conservative.
Also, we can custom tune for any level that anyone would need.
The restore of the factory tune will put the pcm back to factory specifications and it is undetectable.
You will not be able to widen/shorten the injector pulse timing width at this time.
Tire sizes and gear ratios will be able to be corrected, and you will have full OBD-2 Diagnostics monitoring as well as code read and reset capabilities (the code AND the definition will be displayed right on the screen for you).
The speed limiter will also be raised to 120 mph.
Hope this helps!
Very Sincerely...
[ 12-26-2002: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>
CPMac632
12-25-2002, 21:21
Anybody know if the diagnostics will work on the one vin# or all trucks.
My understanding is that the diagnostic portion is NOT tied to the VIN and can therefore be used on any 96+ GM vehicle.
The Predator is not VIN locked for diagnostics. It will work on other Duramax trucks. It is Diesel specific, though.
Sincerely...
Runnin-
Dad taught me a long time ago- if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. Do you see any short comings in the programmer?
James,
A sure fire way to convince the "non-believers" would be to get a few of them in the hands of board members for free or cost so they can return user feedback.
As a true believer in add-on module power, I would be an excellent candidate for such a trial.
:D :D :D
Additionally, I am a current Hot Juice owner and could provide "seat of the pants" comparisons of the two.
;) ;)
I too would be a good guinea pig. I run propane and would love to see the added power and how it mixes with the lp. Would also love to be able to read my codes as I set them ;)
And I would round out the trio of volunteers.
Look at you beggers...........You should be ashmed of yourselves...It's not to late for me to cancel my order... ;) iF NEED BE !!!!!!
MAC tongue.gif
[ 12-26-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
hdmax(mike)
12-26-2002, 11:31
I have never in my 44 years of life gotten any thing free. But it is never to late to start :D
I would be honored to be a beta tester if it was very low priced or even free :D
MINE HAS BEEN PREORDERED..........WILL HAVE LOTS OF ANSWERS SOON.............COME ON UPS.... :D DAVE
sdaver, thanks buddy, I really appreciate your order! You'll soon see that my reputation and customer service is the best of the best, bud! I promise to work w/ you in anyway that I can, and if you ever need anything feel free to email me or give me a personal call. This goes to ALL of you as well! I am here for you!
I am taking pre-orders, and the website will reflect this later today, so be on the lookout for it!
Also, I want everyone to know that the Predator, at this time, will not control the Allison's transmission computer, but we hope to have this feature for the end-user in the coming months, but there are no time guarantees for now.
Sincerely...
Pricing Update!
The old MSRP of the Predator for the Duramax was $819 and the OTD was $695. The new MSRP will be $695, and the OTD will be $595.
I didn't want the forum members feeling as if they are getting multiple stories on what the actual real pricing is, since there has been some discrepancies.
Very Sincerely...
[ 12-26-2002: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>
hdmax(mike)
12-26-2002, 15:02
Thanks James for the update!
I hope you aren`t stepping over the line. (when you talk price in the open forums) Because, I for one want to learn from you about the product you sell.
And we all know the more competion we have the better it will be for all of us in the long run.
Also, I know you said more information would be up on your web site. How much different will the programer be for the Duramax, compared to the gas engine programer?
Thanks!
FisHn2DMax
12-26-2002, 15:23
RunninWithTheDevil.com
I'm very interested in this Unit! If it's even close to what has been advertised, this could be the ticket even ones been waiting for?
I have a few questions,I'm sorry if you've answered some or all of these questions before:
*Can you tell me how the internet inferface works with this Unit for PC update Downloads. *Does it come with serial or USB connectors for PC interface?
*How does it connect into the truck?
*Does it save the existing PCM codes and restore ( if service is needed) the orginal OEM codes exactly as OEM including CHECKSUM? THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THOSE OF US WITH O3's.
*You mentioned some Dyno tests are in process, when will the offical D-Max test results be released?
*What type of stress testing has been done on this unit e.g., Environmental, shock, temp etc?
*If it doesn't communicate with the Allison, how does it change shift points and allow user to modulated "fuel" during shift points? I would think that would require communication with the alli tranny controller?
Overall, it sounds like it's a step in the right direction. Programability,updatability and reliability are the Key's the future success of this unit! I'm sure there is a number of us with our fingers crossed. Time will tell.
Thanks,
G.S.
smile.gif
--How much different will the programer be for the Duramax, compared to the gas engine programer?
The two units, aestically, will look exactly alike. They will function very similar as well.
--*Can you tell me how the internet inferface works with this Unit for PC update Downloads. *Does it come with serial or USB connectors for PC interface?
No, this is an optional thing for the end-user in terms of purchasing a serial cable and power adapter. The internet updates will not be available right away, as this will require more testing on our part before we will release any forum of software for the end-user. The cable is a 9-pin standard RS-232C Male to Female serial, though.
--*How does it connect into the truck?
It connects via the Diagnostics port under the dash.
--*Does it save the existing PCM codes and restore ( if service is needed) the orginal OEM codes exactly as OEM including CHECKSUM? THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THOSE OF US WITH O3's.
The '03 unit will not be available right away. The custom files for it are still being developed. It should be out w/in 1 month, though. And, yes, the Predator saves a copy of the original factory programming onto itself, and you can revert back to it at anytime. It is also not detectable.
--*You mentioned some Dyno tests are in process, when will the offical D-Max test results be released?
Dyno testing has already been done, but as for actual graphs to put up I do not have them at this time and do not know when I will get them. All the files and programming, as well as dynoing, are done in-house at DiabloSport in Delray Beach, FL. The dyno used is a new SuperFlow chassis dyno, which is unmistakingly the most complete unit on the market. It tends to have #'s that are about 10% lower than what a Dynojet will spit out, so you can be guaranteed that the hp levels we give you are normally spot on everytime (it also depends on the vehicle and what modifications it already has).
--*What type of stress testing has been done on this unit e.g., Environmental, shock, temp etc?
The unit is EXTREMELY robust, it carries a LIFETIME Warranty, and we would not do that unless we knew the product lived up to the end-user use. It will function in cold and hot weather. The casing is very strong, and well designed and assembled.
--*If it doesn't communicate with the Allison, how does it change shift points and allow user to modulated "fuel" during shift points? I would think that would require communication with the alli tranny controller?
The common misconception that is out there is that it will interface w/ the Allison's separate pcm. This is not true, at this time. We hope to develop the Predator in the future that will be able to tap into the Allison's brain and offer these controls. The pulse timing is also not able to be changed by the end-user, but it is on our end via the custom programming. Along w/ the transmission adjustability, I hope this becomes a future option as well.
I fully believe that you will get awesome results from the Predator, and I will give you a 15 day Money Back Guarantee, that is sponsored in part by myself and DiabloSport, on top of the LIFETIME Warranty.
Hope this helps!
Sincerely...
RWTD
Two things made me wait for the Diablo........
1) Resetting Stock configuration...
2) Allison line pressure and change shift points..
Will the two adjustable Allison options be present in the initial realease???Seems to me ALL early advertisement pointed in that direction...
I hope so or I will be disappointed from the git go...Am I just misunderstanding your post???
MAC
:confused:
[ 12-26-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
BOOMERHD
12-27-2002, 06:56
Mackin,
If they knew how usefull we were to aaron, they would have sent us a couple to test. is it not all it's cracked up to be?
Boomer :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
--Will the two adjustable Allison options be present in the initial realease???
No, at this time the Allison adjustability will not be included in the intial release, and I am unsure of when if and when it will be included. We are optimistic to be able to properly tap into the Allison's pcm, but that will take some more R&D on our end.
I do not like to see customers or future customers disappointed, but please understand that we will have the most complete unit available on the market, at a price that is more than reasonable for what is all included.
Remember, we include a 15 day money back guarantee, as well a LIFETIME Warranty! We fully stand behind each!
Very Sincerely...
I guess before I would even consider this unit, I would want to know a bit more about what it does performance wise and how.
I would want to know how well it works in the real world since it does not address the Allison.
The added features of reading and resetting codes is nice but it's the performance aspect that needs more info. Are there any drawbacks?
Stalling?
Can you tow without reprogramming?
EGT's?
How does it deal with the already know differences between trucks. Not all Dmax's are the same.
What does Diablo know about diesels? What diesel experience do they have?
Do the instructions include information on what the changes specifically alter and the possible negative/positive effects?
I think you say you can make your own changes? Is that correct? Can you build your own profiles with this unit?
It would be neat to have a directory of performance profiles we could all experiment with and share over the internet.
Thanks
[ 12-27-2002: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>
RWTD
Thanks for your honesty....But it doesn't sit well with me the fact that it's being advertised as being able to do just that, adjust those features....Makes one assume lots, as what's to come or not!!!! Point is could be a reliable product but things continue to change as preorders are takin???Not added better features,but less???Must explain price drop huh??So one can be wacked with updates???Forgetaboutit!!!!!
I presently have all I need to the ground that my Allison will handle and to add to it is fruitless....
I guess this is what I get for jumping on an unknown product that is advertised to do something, it can't....
I'll let it show, and perhaps take advantage of the 15 day return process, if that doesn't change like the price did.... :mad:
Hoot
Your taking the right approach.....Research...Looking forward to info gathered...Can't quote what is advertised apparently...
MAC
May have to change my sig,SOB!!!!
Mac, just wanted to mention that the specs that I posted in the initial message was based on info dated 9/29 that applies to the gas version which does indeed support the listed features with other GM automatic transmissions.
I did mentioned that "some of the parameters will be different on a diesel". I went ahead and removed the three references to transmission reprogramming from the original post. My intent was to simply share info regarding a new power option that was coming for our trucks since I don't think I had seen it mentioned here before at that time.
I'll admit, though, that I was also assuming that the Allison would be supported with the duramax version. Hopefully a high priority is given to this issue and I believe others out there are already programming the Allison via a program loaded via to diagnostic port.
Looking forward to the initial real-world reviews, and I'm real curious about how the Allison will hold up if there is no de-fueling at all at WOT in the 100rwhp level. I'm sure the acceleration and head-snapping shifts will be something to be experienced, but how long will the fun last?
James, I know with the LS1 version, Diablo had a couple of test mules running around that posted on the corvette forum. Are there any duramax mules running around? Any feedback from those guys you can pass along?
Thanks!
C5dura
[ 12-27-2002: Message edited by: c5dura ]</p>
ILL NEVER BE YOUR BEAST OF BURDEN..........MAYBE JUST A CAREFUL MULE..........SOON WE WILL SEE.....SHIP MINE AS INSTRUCTED!! :D DAVE
Sdaver
Beast of Burden??? That's mild ... I'm a raging BULL with 13 darts in my neck and someone's waving a red rag in my face !!!!!
I assure you I'm no spoiler I want what their generic PDF points out as avail,and web sellers....
You must have money to burn...I just, or did, spend $591 bucks on a scanner that probably doesn't offer the enhanced version of monitering,and can't link with my laptop....
In addition I'll have to SPEND money to get the upgrades..Think they'll say hey we left something out???Or we made it better send it back,for FREE?? Come-on.....Don't beat on it....Not pa pa pleased right now with what I'm hearing....
What good is addition 80 HP gonna do you???
What it appears is the Diablo is just giving you a SLEEPER performance box....In other words when you dust a Ford you can pop the hood and SAY LOOK DUDE NO BOX!!!! We'll see if someone steps up to the plate, at least change their add practices so others know exactly what there getting....
MAC
[ 12-27-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
Some of the details are still a little uncertain, but I should know more next week. Basically, I posed some questions that needed to be researched. The Dmax was going on the dyno this aft for what I believe in part was a test to answer one of my major questions...
1BADDMAX
12-27-2002, 13:41
This looks like the solution I've been waiting for. Since I have the 6 speed I don't care about the Allison shift features or lack thereof. I guess when I do my taxes and get some money back from Uncle Sam I'll have something to spend it on!! We'll have to see how well the clutch survives the extra power.
[ 12-27-2002: Message edited by: 1BADDMAX ]</p>
I have not deliberately attempted to make anyone believe anything otherwise. All of my posts on this forum, that you will find, have all the latest information on them. The product is not out just yet, so things are bound to change. I just started taking pre-orders yesterday, because I wanted to make sure that I knew exactly what the product would offer, before I let my customers and jobbers down.
The information I give you is directly from the horses mouth, not from some rouge dealer who is intent on making people believe otherwise. And, FWIW, DiabloSport's site isn't making people believe otherwise, either.
I will do my best to get a detailed difference between the two units up on my website ASAP, but if you are on there you will see that I have a disclaimer and "N/A for Duramax" on specific features.
The price change was based on input from their two largest distributors/dealers, of which one is myself, and another. We all agreed that a lower price was necessary to captilize on the market! We're right in the middle of all the units, price wise, and we offer the most complete unit available!
I want everyone to know that I am an honest person both in my personal life and my business!
Very Sincerely...
[ 12-27-2002: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>
hdmax(mike)
12-27-2002, 15:12
"we offer the most complete unit available!"
This quote and one I read somewhere that it would give as much or more power then any other add on box (I don`t remember the quote word for word)
Has me wondering. Just what is all the hype going to bring us in the real world? I love the price, but am very sceptical about the product.
You mention custom programs, What if I want more power from the box, what do I do? send it in? pay an additional fee? down load off the net? And if we have to send it back, Does the program in the truck have to be uninstalled before the programer can be updated with the more powerful programing? Will the Allison programing cost extra? Will we need to get a cable to get that program from the net?
There is a lot of information that needs to be givin to us, before I buy into the programer being the best and most complete box/add on.
But I am willing to read, if the information is presented to me.
>>>"we offer the most complete unit available!"
This quote and one I read somewhere that it would give as much or more power then any other add on box (I don`t remember the quote word for word).
And we do have the most complete handheld tuning device to date. We will offer as much power *SAFELY* as any other tuning device. FWIW, we can tune your truck to make 100+ or more so rear wheel horsepower, but at what expense to you in terms of broken components? We want to offer something that will work w/ everyday driving, and something that isn't going to explode your transmission because of too much power.
>>>You mention custom programs, What if I want more power from the box, what do I do? send it in? pay an additional fee? down load off the net?
If you desire a tune that produces more than 80 rear wheel horsepower, we can make that tune. To make this simple, whatever GM can do to the pcm, we can do! Initially you will send the unit directly back to me, and have a tune placed on it, but when development of the internet/pc file downloading is complete you will be able to contact me and I will design you a file and email it to you. We've been testing this out w/ beta testers and so far everything has been going very well! The fees for custom programming can range from $0 up to a one time fee of $120. Your dealer, if that should be me, will work with you on deciding what fees should be assessed, if any.
>>>And if we have to send it back, Does the program in the truck have to be uninstalled before the programer can be updated with the more powerful programing?
No, you will never had to uninstall any programming if you have to ship the unit back to me or DiabloSport for an update or for warranty repairs. This is another feature that we offer that others do not.
>>>Will the Allison programing cost extra?
Since this has not been developed yet I cannot speculate as to what cost there would be for this feature, if any.
>>>Will we need to get a cable to get that program from the net?
Yes, it is a standard 9-pin RS-232C male to female serial cable. There is also a 12vDC power adapter that will be needed to power the unit up when not in the vehicle to do any downloading/uploading to it. These two products cost less than $20 at your local WalMart or Radio Shack. The custom updates isn't necessarily a needed option for many of the customers out there, but for those who it is, I will eventually offer both the serial cable and the power adapter for purchase, at no profit on my end.
Hope this helps for now!
Very Sincerely...
[ 12-27-2002: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>
I see RWTD that you are are a responsible dealer.....Unfortunately Diablo/Programa Tool doesn't check to make sure false advertisement is not tolerated....
=>I'll be calling them to see just what they will do about the issue at hand....
=>https://www.rpmoutlet.com/ezRetail/search/view.php?msg_id=1054
=>NOW TAKING PRE-ORDERS
Features:
hdmax(mike)
12-27-2002, 20:47
Looks like rpm outlet is trying to low ball RWTD, but then they have added a $6 handling fee.
That is so cheesey. Handling fee my a$$. why the h e double hocky sticks isn`t the true price up front. I never have nor will I ever do busness with a low life snake that tries to rip you off by sneeking in handling fees.
It also works on 1999 and 2000 Duramax's according to that link MAC.
Obviously it's misleading and irresponsible advertising.
chuntag95
12-27-2002, 21:39
99 and 00 Duramaxes? Weren't those used by GM to try and beat them to death in testing? I figured GM wouldn't have sold them after all they did trying to break them. There would be a total of what, a dozen or so? I think they just copied the Furd page and weren't smart enough to change the date range. Just the rocket scientist I want to work with on tuning my truck. :rolleyes:
I'm confused! Did not most of you D/A owners buy into this dream of longevity or not? Pounding all this crap at your truck will deep six your investment! I do just fine with out it thank you!
If you want to go fast get something fun other than a work horse! Z06 ,comes to mind! :eek:
There's something fascinating about leaving a ZO6 in the stink with a diesel truck ;)
Seriously BROKER, even your Z06 won't last real long if you constantly beat on it. I like the extra power for those "special" occasions.
Call us stress testers. :D :D
I have a bad feeling about that.
At first, it seemed like a dream come true however, the fact that we're not really sure that the Allison Programing is not included and we don't know if it's going to cost money is not reasuring.
The TS reflash cost 200$ more and already does it. This one is 200$ less but doesn't do it so if it costs an extra 200$, we're right there at the TS Level price, the one we where trying to avoid by paying 600-700$ instead of 800-900$.
At 700$ reatail I guess we would be entitled to at least a "regular juice" performance level. We seem to start with 10 less HP and don't know the torque numbers. So that needs to be proven because the dyno they use gives out 10% less HPs according to them.
I bought my juice about a month ago, I'm still under the 60 days money back waranty I was given when I bought it. I would return it and go with a programmer in a instant if I had more info and/or wanranties.
So far it "seems" to be an "incomplete" product because the price point is good but the features are not fully developped and we don't know if and when they are going to be. I would need some more commitments but I would be the first to buy it.
THIS IS DRIVEN BY AN INSATIABLE NEED FOR SPEED........WHATS MORE MIND BLOWING A 12 SECOND ZO6 OR A 13 SECOND WORK HORSE...........YOU MAKE THE CALL.........DO THEY RUN CLYDESDALES AT THE KENTUCKY DERBY?..............ITS ALL ABOUT THE SUPRISE IN THE EYES..... :eek: DAVE
HEY C5DURA DROP ME A EMAIL........
[ 12-27-2002: Message edited by: sdaver ]</p>
While I have no knowledge of ANY of their vendors, I do know that Diablo is a fairly respectable company. From those that I personally know with a Diablo product (Ford owners), all are happy with the quality and performance.
As for what the D/A programmer will do, close inspection of their marketing material states "MOST '99-'02 Trucks and SUVs". Using the word MOST is a rather common method of covering exemptions and errors in brochures. It would be nice if shift characteristics are changeable, but it doesn't seem like anyone has been able to offer them so I wouldn't expect Diablo to do so either.
If they continue with their normal marketing and pricing strategy, the programmer will come with a BASE program that has a few adjustable parameters. If you would like a different program with more power or some other parameter values, then you will buy a "custom" program. From the experiences I've read about, Diablo will work with you to ensure the custom program works properly.
As for free updates, I think this mentality comes from using the rather buggy products that have been offered up until now. If Diablo issues the D/A programmer with the same quality and standards as their other products, you won't NEED any "free updates". smile.gif
Not sure about not needing updates. Look at Edge products. They are a reputable company and experienced in diesel performance products but untill a product has been out for a while and in many different vehicles of the same kind, I'm sure there will be issues. One of the reasons I purchased a Juice was because of the free updates. If it wasn't for that, I would have waited till things got sorted out. If Diablo can't say for sure any and all updates will be free, I can't see sales in this crowd to be overwhelming. I, for sure, would not go for it. Other companys with performance programmers and modules have free updates (I'm not just talking about Dmax products).
Hey RTWD,
I am trying to place an order on your site but it appears the diesel order page is not complete. I guess you will be fixing that this weekend because I would like to be one of the first to try it b4 I bad mouth it, since you do offer a 15 day money back gaurrantee (sp). Just post on here when we can order the diesel predator online and I will be there.
Thanks, Don
Guys chill out already. In an attempt to get SOMETHING on the web, it appears that the "blanket description" from the gasser version was hastily thrown up. While it may be disappointing to learn that certain areas are not covered, until someone gets one in their hands it is all speculation. There should be updated specs coming shortly. A couple things I learned from Diablo is;
1) Boxes are shipped to the dealer/dist network blank. They are then programmed and shipped.
2) 68HP and 88HP files initially slated for release. That is it, no custom, no economy mode etc. There WILL be potential for future program changes.
3) Programming IS via an inexpensive serial cable, but in all liklihod will be limited to dealers and distributors. VERY unlikely that an end user will have access to the database.
4) Dyno testing is on a load cell type dyno which will typically yield lower numbers than a Dyno-Jet, BUT keep in mind that the current offerings are also being run on a load cell dyno.
5) The only really adjustable feature slated to be included with the initial release is speedo calibration via tire size/axle ratio. The 120mph speed limiter is said to be fixed. Personally, I'd like to see a couple of lesser options.
6) Last but not least, and VERY important is that it is said to have a RESTORE feature that will revert you to stock programming.
Again, until they are released, we are going on Diablo's word.
>>>I see RWTD that you are are a responsible dealer.....Unfortunately Diablo/Programa Tool doesn't check to make sure false advertisement is not tolerated....
>>>Looks like rpm outlet is trying to low ball RWTD, but then they have added a $6 handling fee.
MAC & Mike, friends, I am not going to go into too much detail about another dealer, but I will tell you this: I deal directly w/ DiabloSport. I also offer in house installation AND dyno tuning. I have more information about this product than anyone. The previous company does none of the above, and is strictly mail order. I am close confidants with all the guys at DiabloSport. We communicate daily via phone, email, and instant messenger. DiabloSport does not tolerate abnormal behavior from their dealers, and trust me when I say that they are taking the necessary steps to stop these patterns. Things like this does take time, though.
>>>It also works on 1999 and 2000 Duramax's according to that link MAC.
*snicker*, it is for '01-'02 currently, but we hope to have the '03 stuff ready by the end of Jan., hopefully.
>>>Obviously it's misleading and irresponsible advertising.
I couldn't agree more! Even though we're not talking about my company here, if any of you see that anything that I state or anything on my site my be misleading, or may need rewording to help prevent things like this, please let me know as well!
I'll post more w/in a few hours concerning the rest of the statements and questions brought up. I have to put a PowerPuck on a 2002 Dodge here in a few minutes ;) This should be fun!
Also, Don (dontxs), you can now pre-buy the Predator for your vehicle through my website! I just updated it!
As for what John (kennedy) stated, everything is correct. I'll expound on it when I get back.
Sincerely...
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>
RWTD,
Thanks, ORDERED!... smile.gif
Now the hard part.....waiting.
Thanks again, Don
Here we sit, broken hearted...you know the rest. It's the 28th and the box still has an approximate availability date of 1 Jan. Are the pre-orders going to be shipped to the customer on the first??? This looks like a great box, but the features included don't really justify the price. If RWTD talks to Diablo daily, why is there a hesitation in his description of upgrades, programs, and cost? If you guys would like, I'll set up a website and take preorders on a transmission programmer. Still in the testing stage though, but it will be the best thing since sliced bread. Everything will cost extra if you want to do more than turn it on!
Edge products= solid customer relations, 60 day money back, and FREE updates.
Predator= a whole 15 days, $$$ updates.
I understand things take time, but where are these "beta testers" and why aren't they being tested by TDP members? This page will make you $$$ if the product delivers and the costumer service is good. A Predator in the hands of any one of the well known members of this site will be the best advertisement you could ever purchase. IF THE PRODUCT DELIVERS! IMO this has a foul smell, and I hope TDP members don't get bit.
WHEW >>>>>
Jk RWTD
I can relate to what your saying, wait and see, but I didn't nor others dream up the capabilities of the Diablo.....In other words,Diablo and or Programa Tool, gave you and others the PROPAGANDA and everyone is dishing it out....NO????So deliver the goods or it's false advertisement...NO????
RWTD
Your still carrying the "Blanket" gasser description in your SIG.....What gives???
The other dealer is on the phone telling me it will come with all the features that I posted above....Come'on....What's the truth....???
What's the deal? Can you or can't you toy with the Allison???Each member here knows it can be done, it has been done with others, will it cost more to have it in the current release after it's released, after the manufacture STATES it will be done....?You talk daily with,Diablo and or Programa Tool, they know....
After I get off the phone with the other schmuck and my credit card company Monday, I'd like to know if it's going to be worth buying this $600 dollar scan tool, and 120 MPH top end .....I all ready have more power then this will deliver in current release....I'm not picking a number but I would have paid slightly more for the whole thing up front the first time around.....
Really don't take this personal, but I've been waiting for the release, It has been advertised as above as the BOMB, and quite frankly I jumped on it and now I feel dupted....I'm a straight shooter, I don't sugar coat, I tell it the way it is, if it's good, I let ya know, if it suck's ditto.....
Right know it ain't looking good......
So I chill, and I WILL, cancel my order,before it's released and shipped to avoid any restocking fees......No sale for me till I get the truth......Unfriggen believable,how a company can toss so much propoganda and NOT deliver,as advertised,EVERY where,even HERE.....Then expect preorders,good luck.....
MAC
And I want one....What a joke as a choice of better word(s) that I can't type here.....
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
NutNbutGMC
12-28-2002, 17:44
AKDmax, Mackin and the Pak..... very valid points.
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: NutNbutGMC ]</p>
>>>Here we sit, broken hearted...you know the rest. It's the 28th and the box still has an approximate availability date of 1 Jan. Are the pre-orders going to be shipped to the customer on the first???
I know as much information on the release dates as the 11 degreed engineers working at DiabloSport gives to me. The release date is scheduled for the 1st week of Jan. Barring any unforseen problems it'll be delivered to those who have purchased the unit first, BUT I will have a stock in supply that will allow me to fill orders as they are purchased the moment it becomes available.
It *still* has the approx. release date on the 1st, that hasn't changed! All shipping companies are closed on that day, so it will not be shipped until either the day after, or sometime during that first week.
>>>This looks like a great box, but the features included don't really justify the price.
Let's break the features down some:
For $595 and FREE shipping, that is guaranteed to be at your door in 1-3 business days from date of delivery you get:
1: A Diagnostic tool that gives you the ability to read and reset fault codes, and it displays the code definition directly on the screen for you.
2: Live data diagnostic monitoring of your vehicle sensors that you can run while at idle, cruise, key-on/engine off, WOT, etc.
3: 4 total included tunes of:
1) 40 rwhp economy tune
2) 60 rwhp towing tune
3) 85 rwhp performance tune
4) Non-performance tune w/ just speed limiter and rev limiters increased ONLY (many were asking for this ability only).
RWTQ (Rear Wheel Torque) #'s will range from approx. 100 to 200 on the the 3 performance files.
4: The ability to flash your computer back to stock as many times as you wish, which is also undetectable. And if the dealer happens to overwrite your performance tune you're not out of the money you just spent, as the Predator will still reprogram your pcm for you time and time again.
5: Top speed limiter raised to 120 mph.
6: Ability to change from a 2.xx up to a 6.xx gear ratio.
7: Ability to adjust your tire sizes from a 10 inch rim to a 40 inch rim, from a 100 width to 400 width, and 5 aspect ratio up to a 125 ratio. It has two tire size inputs, one is Factory, and the other is Actual, then it'll compute the correct speedo calibration #'s from there.
8: A 15 day money back guarantee (if you're not happy, send it back for a full $595 refund; I eat the shipping that I paid to initially ship it to you).
9: A LIFETIME Warranty (if it breaks, I'll swap you a new one no charge!)
10: Ability to have custom files created for you at will by a DiabloSport tuner or a DiabloSport Tuning Dealer.
11: FREE, yes, FREE revision updates as they come out.
12: Ability to have the custom tunes and future updates downloaded from the convenience of your pc in your own home, or anywhere that you have access to a pc (granted, this option will not initially be offered, but it will come).
13: DiabloSports LEGENDARY tuning abilities.
>>>If RWTD talks to Diablo daily, why is there a hesitation in his description of upgrades, programs, and cost?
Because nothing has been set in stone yet for future upgrades, programs, or pricing on the *custom* tunes. They, depending on your dealer, will determine the price it may cost. It could range from $0 up to a one time fee of $225, but these are *retail* prices, and I do NOT gouge my customers who have spent good money for this product. Something to remember, is that as the new tunes come out, I will be able to place any file on the unit that myself and the customer decides on before it is shipped to them. I will, in the coming months, will also have the ability to write the custom tunes myself with the new Revolution software by DiabloSport.
>>>If you guys would like, I'll set up a website and take preorders on a transmission programmer. Still in the testing stage though, but it will be the best thing since sliced bread. Everything will cost extra if you want to do more than turn it on!
I can understand what you may be sensing, but I believe you have me and this company pegged totally wrong. If you need any feedback from other users of the Predator, please go to the largest GM vehicle forums on the internet and you will find that they all know, respect, and believe in DiabloSport, as well as my company RWTD. Go to LS1.com, CorvetteForum.com, Z06Vette.com, FullSizeChevy.com, as well as many others and you will see what DiabloSport is all about.
The Predator is not in development, as the Predator is available, but the tunes are what are being finalized, and us making sure that there are NO bugs in this unit whatsoever. We're not like Microsoft and release products that needed 20 upgrades in the 1st year. We've had 1 revision update since the release of the Gas Predator, w/ only 1 known planned future update coming next month to correct some gear ratio adjustments only on the Camaros/Firebirds, and Corvettes.
>>>I understand things take time, but where are these "beta testers" and why aren't they being tested by TDP members?
DiabloSport is in Boca Raton, FL, therefore having develop and custom build ALL of their products, hardware and software, in house. Their beta testers are nearby customers. I am advertising for my company on TDP. You do not know if one of the beta testers is a member on this site, and all testing is in the strictest of confidence. I'm sure you'll hear from the beta testers once the unit is being released. The same doubts surfaced up on the previous websites that I just mentioned; people wondering where the 50+ beta testers were. Not everyone is an internet junkie like we all are, but after time multiple beta testers started popping up on the forums to chime in w/ their experiences.
>>>This page will make you $$$ if the product delivers and the costumer service is good. A Predator in the hands of any one of the well known members of this site will be the best advertisement you could ever purchase. IF THE PRODUCT DELIVERS!
I've been selling DiabloSport using and selling DiabloSport products for years! I can definitely, without any hesitation declare them the industry leader in tuning and products!
>>>IMO this has a foul smell, and I hope TDP members don't get bit.
This company has been around for years, and unfortunately you haven't heard of them. They are NOT new at all to the tuning world. Patrick, Willie, Johan, Nick, Antonio, and Brian, are the some of the most well respected tuners and engineers in the Ford tuning world.
Patrick has tuned vehicles since EEC tuning was made possible back in '86 w/ the Grand Nationals! He's helped Hypertech, Jet, the MEFI boats, as well as bring the 1st GM/Chevy tuning to the market. He was the MASTER tuner at Superchips from '93 to '99, when he jumped ship to DiabloSport to help spearhead the tuning aspect of the company.
Willie is a 5 time undefeated World Ford Champion, who owns a street legal new bodied Mustang that runs low 8's at over 165 mph (that would be over 1500 horsepower, btw) and is COMPLETELY STREET LEGAL!
Their parent company is ProgRama (www.programainc.com). DiabloSport
James,
You had me with the price, the speedo corrections, hp, gear ratio, and DTC Diagnostics....
It sounds like very good deal..
Thanks for supporting The Diesel Page..
Mackin,
What company (product) is able to reprogram the Allison TCM at this time?
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: SteveO ]</p>
Does the entourage of engineers have experience with diesel engines and med duty truck automatics?
>>>In other words,Diablo and or Programa Tool, gave you and others the PROPAGANDA and everyone is dishing it out....NO????So deliver the goods or it's false advertisement...NO????<<<
The information I am giving you is fact. MAC, friend, I am not trying to mislead you in anyway. I do not see any form of false advertising on my part or DiabloSport's in anyway. DiabloSport NEVER gave this dealer authorization to state such.
>>>Your still carrying the "Blanket" gasser description in your SIG.....What gives???<<<
My website states "Predator Features (most vehicles, please see exclusions below):" on several items, and even states, "*** N/A on GM Duramax Diesel. Tonight, I will do my best to differentiate the EXACT differences or features based on what vehicle that the Predator applies to.
>>>The other dealer is on the phone telling me it will come with all the features that I posted above....Come'on....What's the truth....???<<<
Who is this other dealer? Is it RPM Outlet? I thought I explained earlier about that situation. You need to know something, bud, and this is something I shouldn't state, because I'm not someone to bash other dealers, but RPM Outlet doesn't deal w/ DiabloSport direct. They go through another distributor of DiabloSports, and that is PDQ. You should contact Nick Spinelli, who is the general manager of DiabloSport and talk to him directly if you do not feel comfortable with what I'm telling you. Email me at bfb@runninwiththedevil.com and I will give you the information you may need.
>>>What's the deal? Can you or can't you toy with the Allison???<<<
No, you can NOT adjust the Allison's pcm at all w/ the Predator. "?", why on earth, MAC, would I lie and say the Predator does NOT come w/ the ability to adjust the Allison??? That makes a lot of sense, right? It's your dealer who's deliberately telling you these lies.
>>>Each member here knows it can be done, it has been done with others, will it cost more to have it in the current release after it's released, after the manufacture STATES it will be done....?You talk daily with,Diablo and or Programa Tool, they know....<<<
Everyone, I'm not here to start problems. I've told you the truth, and will continue telling the truth. The product will be complete for what it is advertised as, and the features it has are in my post directly above this one! These features w/ this unit will be sold for $595!
IF and when DiabloSport decides to produce a unit that will program the Allison, I will be sure to inform everyone. DiabloSport does not currently know if and when they will develop this, nor do they know if they will charge any fees to have this upgraded to do so. They may offer two versions of the unit, the current one which programs just the main pcm, and a 2nd one that programs both pcms (the main and the Allison's), but this is just speculation.
>>>After I get off the phone with the other schmuck...<<<
MAC, bud, I'd have much HARSHER words if I were told misinformation over and over again, even when they were questioned repeatedely about it, but I realize that you can't openly expound on him with the words you wish to use, but trust me I know! ;)
>>>Really don't take this personal, but I've been waiting for the release, It has been advertised as above as the BOMB, and quite frankly I jumped on it and now I feel dupted....I'm a straight shooter, I don't sugar coat, I tell it the way it is, if it's good, I let ya know, if it suck's ditto.....<<<
I know, and I DO understand how you feel. I'm still a customer on many things myself. I apologize that you got hooked up w/ the wrong dealer. I also apologize to you that he's lying to you repeatedely, almost purposely.
I'm no middleman, and do not operate in that fashion.
>>>Unfriggen believable,how a company can toss so much propoganda and NOT deliver,as advertised,EVERY where,even HERE.....Then expect preorders,good luck.....<<<
This is EXACTLY why I didn't start taking pre-orders until the day after Christmas, just less than 2 weeks before the release of it. I was called NUMEROUS times and asked to take someone's money MONTHS before the Duramax Predator is to be released, and I told the customers flat out that I would NOT do that to them!
I know this product will be successful. The Gas Predator has been EXTREMELY successful, and I only expect the same out of the Diesel. DiabloSport leads and NEVER follows!
Also, MAC, and others, don't worry, I WILL take all this up w/ the owners and managers come Monday. I do not like seeing potential clients, and even current clients lied to. I will get them to get w/ their Distributor of this dealer immediately to help stop what he's feeding you. I'm very sorry about this all!
Very Sincerely...
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>
A bit of skeptism is always a good thing, but, on the otherhand, I hope we don't go overboard and upset Diablo so they quit work on the DMax.
They are taking some risks here by venturing off into the diesel land, but it sounds like they have cracked GM's embedded flash design and that's the key to adding the features we desire.
What's so funny about peace, love, and understanding? smile.gif
Imagine how long it took Diablo to uncover the mysteries of GM's flash design (maybe a former GM employee or two helped along the way), but now add the mysteries of the Allison. Not too many folks out there have knowledge of how the Allison's embedded software design is laid out, let alone the workings of the transmission. It's going to take a while.
RWTD
I'll end my input with this on this subject because right now, I won't be interested is being first second third or 100th till I continue to research,looking for the real deal...What I was looking for in the Diablo isn't going to happen...Maybe some one else will bring the real deal to the table,I hope....I don't need a scan tool or 120 MPH top speed....I drive a one ton dually (see PICS) with R speed rated tires....Plus I'm still on parole ,with a truck that tops out at 98 MPH,CT is tough...Anyone know where I can get Z speed rating tires in a E weight rating????Just thought I'd ask....
I too am not starting trouble just telling you how I see it,I'm not shy ....RPM wasn't the first nor the only one Advertising the capabilities of the Predator for the Duramax....
Plus all the info they probably got on the Predator was from PDQ,as you state, and hey guess what, their the GO TO, THE DIRECT LINK, GUY, RIGHT OFF OF DIABLOSPORTS web page as the SELLER of their product....Not you, I'm afraid,perhaps it should be...Matter of fact I e-mail PDQ....
So to this I have to shrug my shoulders in disbelief, their a direct contact, as you, I believe......Sorry....
You seem to be the guy that is the most informed and trust worthy and I applaud you for that..For if not for YOU I would have received a product that was totally miss represented to me.....Thanks,and I mean it,it is not sarcasm,I won't forget that .....
I don't blame you or any other seller my friend, bud or who ever it's really DIABLO SPORT that is running the $CAM ,not the sellers, your just left having to justify it, and defend it, to a crowd that wanted it, has the purchasing power, three times over, to move the units....Sucks you have to take the heat....I won't bust your chops any more, if you think that is my goal, I 'll just let every one else pay for the R&D....I am not gullible and know Diablosport threw this out their to gain FULL attention to their product and now won't or can't deliver.....Dude sorry but that isn't right, no way, no how.....Don't think for one minute I didn't want the product....If you told me I could get all the above that they said it would be I would plop down the CASH imediately just like I did,a week ago,tonight.....If you don't believe I ordered one e-mail me,I'll give you my full name and address,you can check....Tell Diablo I'm not pleased with their marketing ways....Lost my order,and endorsement,doesn't mean much,I know,they got tons of cash.....Right??
MAC
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
More Power
12-28-2002, 20:07
Once the Diablo Predator becomes available, we'll produce a comprehensive product review right here in The Diesel Page.
Till then, let's give RWTD an opportunity to tell us what he knows. It'll all be sorted out in due time.
MP
Hey Mac,
Just curious what you were going to use the predator for any way , it seems like you are already at the power limit of the allison.
Thanks, Don
Actually for what you get it's not a bad deal at all. Tech II's run like $2500.
I like the diagnostics part. I like the future possibilities also. I may get one just to play with my power down problem. The extra power is icing on the cake.
I'm still curious.... is this the first diesel application Diablo has undertaken?
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>
hdmax(mike)
12-28-2002, 20:38
I`ve been reading over at full size. And can not find any positive first hand experiance. But did find some nagetive comments. Like this one!
----The 26HP is not. I beleive that number is very reachable. The 40HP increase was way off. I looked at the dyno sheet from diablo on that truck and it was a joke. They dyno'ed it stock in the 170s. Also another thing about the truck that we tested is that it was not stock. It had exhaust, intake, pulley, thermostat, and free mods. I beleive that we would have had a bigger gain on a "stock" truck..-------
and this one
-------Just by posts on all the forums, I'm starting to get a little disenchanted with the Diablo.
With so many units shipped, there doesn't seem to be that many posts with results even with just SOTP's. That is even looking in the F-Body and Vette sections. ---------
and this one
------I have seen the unit, held the unit and used it. While this was a non-truck application, I can say that it could NOT perform all the features as advertised...the owner of this unit adjusted fuel and timing while testing on the street and strip. Just yesterday he was able to run on the track and while his first impressions were that the car "felt" faster it in fact ran .15 slower on average than before. The tuning is very different and uses percentage not value increments for tuning...while this is much easier to understand for most it makes fine tuning more difficult. ------
I am not to confident in this box. I went to a site that was talted as being a believer, and I can find nothing but a couple guys puching their product. Just like they are doing here.
Then I went to LS1Tech and had even less luck finding positive information. Everywhere I look it seems like no one has tried the Diablosport predator on a GM product.
On edit, I`d like to say I went to LS1 forum and did find a few happy campers. But still not like I expected to find after reading James` post.
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: hdmax(mike) ]</p>
dontxs
This "was" my goal to stack with the Edge box......
CPMac632
12-28-2002, 21:03
Hoot I think Diablo does a lot with Powerstroke's I don't know if they do all the programming but I saw a Diablo 50 hp chip outperform a 110 superchip on a dyno. Mackin cool it people like you are why the builders had to program in speed limits so maybe you don't need yours raised. Also I could easily tell it was a general description when I first read about it and do you really think in todays world one company is going to shoot itself in the foot by selling a product that does everything that all the competition does plus diagnostics cheaper than most everything else. No other products alter the allison other that Steve Cole's reflash do they?
CPMac632,
As of today no company alters Allisons TCM programing which includes shift points, line pressure (as I keep seeing it refered to),
not even Steve Cole..
Hope that answered you question..
CPMac632
12-28-2002, 21:27
Yep that answered it thanks. Now if I can find someone to make me a flywheel for a six speed, mine is in multiple pieces.
"Mackin cool it people like you are why the builders had to program in speed limits so maybe you don't need yours raised."
Gweeesshh Guys if I only knew sooner, sorry.....I always thought it had something to do with the tire speed rating.....Gheesh My Vette would laugh at a buck twenty....Along with numerous two wheelers I owned.... ;)
My riff is they way it was presented to the general public....
See it for what you want,it doesn't matter to me..... :rolleyes:
You having a six speed it could be perfect......Buy one.....
Sorry if you,or others,take offense to my rant.....
SteveO
I thought Steve Coles Power loader FIRMS the shift??? Is that incorporated in the PCM logic to the TCM then???
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]
[ 12-29-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
Mackin,
Yep.. He, like some others are in directly "Firming" the shifts up by adding more power.. Like we all know, the TCM is pretty smart in that it's tries to complete the shift as fast as possible at the same time shift smoothly.. Since this trans is computer controlled it has the ability to adjust the shift points to a certain degree..
Does that make since?
>>>I'm still curious.... is this the first diesel application Diablo has undertaken?<<<
Hey hoot! Nice to meet ya, friend.
DiabloSport as a company has years and years of experience w/ Diesels. I, personally, have about 3 years working w/ and around diesels tuning them. My brother is a master diesel mechanic, as well as my best friend, so I leave all the wrench turning to them. I'm the tuning geek.
DiabloSport has been chipping Ford Diesels now since the late '90s and have also been doing the Dodge's since then as well. We regularly see anywhere up to 100+ true rear wheel horsepower when tuning them, depending on the tune and what modifications they may have. We offer the consumer several levels to work with.
>>>I am not gullible and know Diablosport threw this out their to gain FULL attention to their product and now won't or can't deliver.
Tell Diablo I'm not pleased with their marketing ways.>>>
I think you need to be directing this at RPM Outlet, not at DiabloSport, bud. I just don't see where DiabloSport has misled anyone. As for PDQ, I am NOT even going ot comment on what I think about them ('nuff said concerning them, lol). You can take that for what it's worth ;)
>>>hdmax(mike)<<<
LS1Tech.com and FullSizeChevy really aren't the ones to be viewing if you want to find a lot of info on the Predator. They are small sites compared to the others. Go to these two:
www.corvetteforum.com and www.ls1.com (the LARGEST GM sites on the net, over 30k members each)
Here's a link that has multiple dynographs and results from several of my customers:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=443200
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=445593&postid=4770576#4770576
There are plenty more of posts that aren't from mine that will attest to the Predator. Try http://www.ls1.com/forums/search.php?s= and input "predator" in the search box (w/out the quotes). There are HUNDREDS of posts.
Also, here is an email I just got back tonight from one of my customers:
> Hi James,
> Just an update. Dyno tuned my car on Monday . With the Base Predator tune I
> was at 306.5 hp/318tq with some spark knock ( 11.5 to 1 A/F ratio at this
> time). Backed off 5% timing and leaned fuel 2% and numbers went to
> 318hp/338tq (12.0 to 1 ). Leaned the tune another 1.5% ( 3.5 total ) and
> numbers went to 321hp/340tq at 12.5 to 1 . Needless to say I am very happy
> with the results. Car runs crisp!! One question: Can the diagnostic portion
> of the Predator be used to check codes or do real time on a different car
> same year?
>
> Thanks in advance!!
Let's try and remain positive here everyone! I know some specific individuals testing this unit and it has been going GREAT! You will all see! Granted, not everyone will be happy, as no product can produce 100% results, but I've had minimal product returns, along w/ a customer approval rating in the 90% range.
I hope you all have a great night!
Sincerely...
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>
I will do as More Power states, allow RTWD to tell us what he knows. If these "beta testers" are having great results, why aren't they posting their results here? It's not a matter of national security to release a little info to keep the masses from salivating all over themselves. Even if they
hdmax(mike)
12-29-2002, 07:50
AKDmax;
It sounds to me, That will be a lot like the edge. Free updates. and charge for more power! and maybe some other options.
James;
Don`t get me wrong, I am not trying to rain on your parade. I am just trying to find out as much information on the Predator as I can. I am very interested in it.
And if it weren`t for my wife melting our charge card on Christmas purchases, I`d be one of the first ones here ordering it. But I will have to wait a little while now :(
But by having to wait, maybe some other options will come in the form of transmission improvements from your box.
Thanks for being so polite with myself and Mac. I am sure he means no harm as I don`t.
RWTD- You have really gone the distance in this thread to express your commitment to customer satisfaction if/when these members buy the programmer from you. It's getting more and more appealing (FREE stuff after the sale) and you are really going to be pressed to perform my man. It's all in print. I for one am anxious to see how it all sorts out. I'm a waiter 'cause I have a 2003 but I'll be watchin'.
IndigoDually
12-29-2002, 18:41
Been lurking on this topic for a while and I was wondering if the scan tool portion of the programmer has the ability to put the trans in fast learn mode. My trans tends to get screwed up after driving around a parking lot for 50 to 75 miles pushing snow in a big storm. I would be very interested in this capability.
Also can I read the codes from my '94 and '95 ?
Thanks, John
Check the website for the most current info and exclusions from the gasser version. Not likely this will do much more than read generic codes just like a $200.00 OBDII scanner. So far, the two confirmed things it will do are change speedo for larger tires or gears, and bump speed limiter to 120. According to the website. Curiuos how much different (cost and features)this is from the Hellion OBDII scanner they offer. Appx. 3 more days and the curtain will be lifted on this. Hmmmm.
Guys/Gals, wanted to give you some more info. on the Predator as of today. This is good news! I'll have more info. to give tomorrow on the previous questions. Everyone is swamped today w/ R&D and they are short handed (vacations and such), but here goes for now:
The Predator for the Duramax will have 4 tunes standard! Yes FOUR tunes! You will get a 40 hp economy tune, a 60 rwhp towing tune, an 85 rwhp performance tune, AND you will also have a tune that has NO performance modifications whatsoever, but it will have your rev limiter and speed limiter increased. All files will have rev limiter and speed limiter increased.
To break this down:
4 included tunes:
1: 40 rwhp economy tune
2: 60 rwhp towing tune
3: 85 rwhp performance tune
4: Non-performance tune w/ just speed limiter and rev limiters increased ONLY (many were asking for this ability only).
RWTQ (Rear Wheel Torque) #'s will range from approx. 100 to 200 on the the 3 performance files.
These #'s are done on a SuperFlow dual assorbing Eddy-current system, which typically yield from 5 to 10% lower #'s than a Dynojet, so expect these #'s to be pretty true across the board for most trucks, but please remember that each truck is different, so there may be some slight variation on some vehicles.
In order to use each tune you must turn the vehicle off, key on, plug the Predator in, then choose which file you'd like to use, one at a time. It takes approx. 2 min. to change tunes. The Predator works off of flash tuning, which is the most complete and proper way of tuning a pcm, so there is no switching between the tunes on the fly.
As for the rev limiter increase, the 6-speeds will benefit most from this. The automatics will really only benefit in top gear, but this is where your 120 mph speed limiter will come into play as well. As we know, the Allison does do a great job at learning and compensating from increased power, which will cause the Allison's pcm to possibly increase the line pressure and the shift points.
I'll post more information later on this evening.
Sincerely...
James, any chance of posting some dyno graphs to show what the hp and tq curves looks like in each program?
It would be nice to get an idea of "area under the curve" and the flatness of the tq curve in the towing program, for example.
Are we sure that re-flashing the PCM will in no way have long term consequences? I ask because a while back there was some noise on the ls1-edit mailing list about guys with early year ls1 vehicles ('98-'99), loosing their PCMs after a couple of hundred re-flashes.
Granted, these guys re-flash several times a day at the track, but if 300 re-flashes is all you get and you change you program once a week on the average, you get about 6 years before you PCM craps out.
Again, I don't think this is an issue with '01+ GM vehicles, but I was wondering if that can be confirmed?
C5dura
[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: c5dura ]</p>
the speed limiter is bumped up to 120mph
what is the rev limiter bumped up to?
Some of us are getting blue here holding our breath ..... ;)
What parameters does the Diablo-Predator tune-tap to gain HP??? Fuel pressure,Timing,etc....
Mike the Powerloader is up to 3700 to get 107/110 (?) is it??Not sure but I thought I heard that figure...So a Buck Twenty it must be scream'in if so....
MAC
:D
from 4lo.com
30.5" dia tires (stock)
3.73 rear end
transmission ratio 0.71:1 (5th)
transfer case rato 1:1 (hi range)
120mph = 3500rpm
>>>James, any chance of posting some dyno graphs to show what the hp and tq curves looks like in each program?<<<
I will not have dyno graphs until DiabloSport releases them to me. I understand everyone wanting them (trust me, I do to), but I plan on doing a comprehensive detailed test of my own in real world conditions as well as the dyno shortly after receiving the units. I am always VERY detailed oriented and will post all pertinent information from the results of all testing, including well detailed graphs from the Dyno.
>>>Are we sure that re-flashing the PCM will in no way have long term consequences? I ask because a while back there was some noise on the ls1-edit mailing list about guys with early year ls1 vehicles ('98-'99), loosing their PCMs after a couple of hundred re-flashes.
Granted, these guys re-flash several times a day at the track, but if 300 re-flashes is all you get and you change you program once a week on the average, you get about 6 years before you PCM craps out.<<<
I remember quite well about the LS1Edit users have pcm problems. This is attributed mainly to the LS1Edit program itself (it'll never be entirely admitted to). It is not the pcm, and if it was, that was definitely corrected on GM's end. There's a few other companies out there that has had their fair share of pcms being fried, and one large one here recently had a recall on many of its handheld tuners because of such.
Anyhoo, these pcms are tested to work (don't quote me on this) at a million flashes, and then some. They are very durable and can be written to time and time again!
>>>the speed limiter is bumped up to 120mph
what is the rev limiter bumped up to?<<<
The rev limiter increase is currently at +400, but we may tone that down some. We've got a couple of 6-speeds testing this week and we'll make a decision before we let the units go out the door.
>>>What parameters does the Diablo-Predator tune-tap to gain HP??? Fuel pressure,Timing,etc....<<<
The gains from the Predator are done the proper way and that is by increasing the pulse width, or pulse width and timing, depending on the tune.
Sincerely...
[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>
As you read the specs to some of these flash parts you realize that they can never last as long as the 1 million program cycle claim. One of the problems is that you need to configure the part to program before you program. So you end up writing a number of patterns to a set of addresses over and over again which reduces the life cycle of the part. The specs also need to be derate to the chip's operating temperature as maybe even the chip's clock rate, so the part's life cycle is always lower than 1 million.
On edit:
One thing to watch out for is bad designs that excessively write or read from flash such as a counter/timer with 1/10 sec resolution. Depending how it was implemented, at that rate the flash could last less than 30 hours. Admittedly, an extreme example.
[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: AzKevin ]</p>
HEY KEV YOU GOT SOCALDMAXS EMAIL.... LEFT IT AT THE OFFICE........DROP ME A EMAIL IF YOUR STILL OUT THERE..........GOT SOME INFO FOR STEVE....THANKS DAVE
sdaver,
You've got mail!
:D
Ya know, if it only lasted for 1000 flashes, that's approx. 20 years at 1 flash per week. :D
Sorry, I just had to...
Going to bed guys...I will talk to you all tomorrow! If any of you are leaving out tomorrow to enjoy the New Year's festivities, make sure that you stay SAFE and enjoy the freedom!
Very Sincerely...
Had to dig a few days back for this topic. Seems interest has been lost on this product. RWTD you have any more info now that it's the 2nd of Jan.?
Information is still the same on what the unit will include for the end-user. To reiterate the programming files, there will be 4 included tunes, which consist of:
1: 40 rwhp economy tune
2: 60 rwhp towing tune
3: 85 rwhp performance tune
4: Non-performance tune w/ just speed limiter and rev limiters increased ONLY (many were asking for this ability only).
All above tunes will include raised rev limiter and speed limiter.
Unit will still be out during the first week of Jan. which is next week.
Phone calls and emails have been phenomenal, so please do not hesitate to contact me for any additional information!
I hope everyone made it through the New Years safely!
Sincerely...
hdmax(mike)
01-03-2003, 06:44
James; When I read/hear first week, it means sometime in the first 7 days. Not the 5th-12th days :D That is nearly the second full week!
FirstDiesel
01-03-2003, 18:17
Sounds like a Microsoft deadline to me. ;)
Can you say vaporware boys and girls????
Who is going to be brave enough to try the first one of these when they haven't even said anything about the Beta testers???? :eek:
[ 01-03-2003: Message edited by: FirstDiesel ]</p>
What Beta testers? What Box? What Dyno charts? What ship date? What can it REALLY do? lots a questions, anyone have answers or receive their predator this first week of Jan.? I'm still taking pre-orders on the tranny programmer... :D It'll cost ya a wooden nickel!
You will all see just how powerful and awesome this tool really is. I remember how critical everyone was of other programmers originally. I can assure you this is not vaporware by any means.
Also, to the '03 owners, you *may*, but I am not promising anything, have the ability to purchase a unit during the initial release and it be ready to program your truck immediately, as we have been testing the '03 trucks and building files for them. If not, then definitely during the first couple of weeks after the release.
You all have a great night and be SAFE!
Sincerely...
I am still waiting on my email from Rwtd with my tracking #. I can't wait to get this thing and post my opinion on the power increase for everyone, c'mon James. I know you have got to be busy. ;) . As soon as I get the Predator I will post my opinion for everyone. :D :D
Thanks, Don
PS to James: The sooner the better tongue.gif (for everyone)
Don,
We look forward to hearing your results.
It sure would be interesting if someone had an unleaded 90rwhp Juice to compare to the Predator's "real" 85rwhp.
AZKevin, as soon as I get it and install I will be back to post results. Hopefully great results. We shall see how everything works out next week sometime?? If I am near the top of the shipping list ;) ? (that comment is for James :D )I think the quicker I can post some positive results it may just ease a few minds on this topic, and may sell a few more units for James ;) . James, I am just trying to work my way to the front of the list. :D I do have some experience with chips from my previous F**d, so I have an idea or 2 of what to expect.
Thanks, Don Moran
[ 01-04-2003: Message edited by: dontxs ]</p>
chuntag95
01-04-2003, 23:17
Hey Don,
Are you coming to the Dallas get together? If you have it by then, you could bring it so we can see what it shows, etc. Pleeaaasssse. :D
6.6L&94ImpalaSS
01-05-2003, 06:32
RWTD,
You have updated us on power performance, but I am wondering what all can be done on the scanning and code side. Will we be able to use it like a Tech II and troubleshoot sensors and other problems?
The more I can keep it away from the stealer the better.
Mike
I am planning on going to Lubbock in June, if they can work everything out by then.
Don
Hey James, how's about an update on the release (shipping) date? And any last minute changes that might have taken place?
Thanks, Don
This is going to be an unpopular post with some but-
I was in a retailer yesterday getting my gauges and pod and the counter man asked me what power module I was using. I said none but was leaning toward the Juice Box. He brought up the subject of the forthcoming Diablo Pred and said the release had been delayed because they (assuming mfr) "aren't happy with the performance they are getting".
I asked how he knew this and he gave me name and number of his source, a distributor in Central FL.
This does not look promising in the near term.
[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]</p>
More Power
01-10-2003, 12:19
I've watched this thread for some time now, and with more than a little dismay.
First, missed delivery dates for products and vehicles are as common as winter snow in the Rockies. Think about it, how many missed delivery dates did the Edge box have? How many have waited months for their truck? Every vendor here has had that problem at one time or another.
Second, if you want to promote, encourage, develop or publicize a "group purchase", please do it somewhere else. Search for words "group purchases" in the various TheDieselPage.com forums, to learn more about this web site's policy..... or simply re-read the Forum Registration Agreement. In short, group purchases help a few individuals, and hurt everyone else.
MP
[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: More Power ]</p>
>>>He brought up the subject of the forthcoming Diablo Pred and said the release had been delayed because they (assuming mfr) "aren't happy with the performance they are getting".
I asked how he knew this and he gave me name and number of his source, a distributor in Central FL.<<<
TraceF, I can assure you that is NOT the case, and can assure you that this distributor they mentioned, whom I know, did NOT state such! DiabloSport is VERY happy with the performance they are getting. All the #'s I have quoted before are accurate, and the test mules they have are running like a scalded BEAST (pun intended; "Diablo", heh). It's an issue of wanting to include the '03 truck tunes, pure and simple.
>>>Second, if you want to promote, encourage, develop or publicize a "group purchase", please do it somewhere else. <<<
HOORAY! Someone else that actually understands that Group Purchases are nothing but BAD for business. Thank you so much for reiterating that!
Very Sincerely...
[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: More Power ]</p>
hey MP,
I get your point on the first paragraph but somehow I missed it on the second one. I purchased my predator at the "original listed price" and was later refunded $100.00 by rwtd for the new listed price on the same day. I assume don from tx did the same. I can appreciate your feelings along these lines because of the advertisers and other vendors here. From what I read here I did not see the makings for or any hints of that type of purchase.........maybe it just flew over my head.
I understand that business is business and sometimes things happen beyond your control(rwtd)
but that doesnt lessen the frustration that I feel for the wait.
MP im glad this sites here theres alot of experience and knowledge on tap here and then theres guys like me
:D :D dave
big dipper
01-10-2003, 13:34
"HOORAY! Someone else that actually understands that Group Purchases are nothing but BAD for business. Thank you so much for reiterating that!"
I know that is the policy of this site and I respect that, but if that is the way you feel James, why are you advertising the GP soo much on other sites.
Yup Edge missed their release date no denying it.....But there was a handful of guys that got their paws on one and were hooting and hollering that it was the best thing since corn on the cob !!!!!!! And it is .......Plus they did do a lot of tweaking over almost a year,growing pains, but it purrs like a kitten so it is worth the effort 100%.....
The Predator just may be a contender,the cats meow, but I ask were are the beta testers??? They should be here, after all, this is the PREMIER Duramax Diesel site,without a doubt......I can relate to finalizing a product before being released,but we like hands on.....Last thing they could want is any negative feed back,so I understand delay......
RWTD is doing a good job in promotion and relations but WE want testers,we need a trust worthy individual or two......Send a contributer a programmer,get it done....Not me I'm to bias,they have a tough act to follow.....
At least Edge went right after THIS market, on this site,with product, smart move....
Great organization to deal with,110% custmer satisfaction,Edge is, hope Diablo and there dealers are the same and they will do well......
Big Dipper
Slam, dunk......
MAC
:D :D
More Power
01-10-2003, 14:28
sdaver..
The post in this thread that discussed a group purchase was edited. It was likely an innocent error on his part. No problem....
The BB forum exists to serve three groups - Members, TDP, and vendors/manufacturers. It is a fine balancing act to best serve all three groups. We need all three groups for a number of important reasons, or the forum cannot exist.
Those members who have interacted with vendors/manufacturers to solve tough problems and/or get answers (or certainly, anyone who has attended a Rendezvous) know how important vendors/manufacturers are to the success of everyone involved. Group purchases drive them away.
Sometimes, balancing all of the various needs in a BB forum is not easy.....
MP
[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: More Power ]</p>
I agree mackin. Product needs to be released to a substantial audience (variety of trucks, build dates, driving styles, climates,...), and then critical feedback needs to be taken back to development for fine tuning. This needs to happen for a period of time, ideally several seasonal changes.
Maybe RWTD could address how many beta test vehicles there are, and how much test time has elapsed prior to a release.
>>>I know that is the policy of this site and I respect that, but if that is the way you feel James, why are you advertising the GP soo much on other sites.<<<
I am offering a GP on ONE site, and it is for the gas Predator only, and it is a legitimate factory authorized GP. The other site was done by an entirely different DiabloSport dealer, which it was authorized as well.
DiabloSport frowns on GP's, as do I, and does not even want them to happen, but when you're literally forced into doing something at times just to appease the masses you sometimes have to go with the flow. We did this in response to several rouge individuals trying to manipulate the system and attempting to discredit DiabloSport and their trusting dealer network base. It was an extremely critical situation that needed immediate attention.
The ability to offer a GP on DiabloSport products is limited by the manfacturer, and this had to be approved by them before it took place. There is also a specific amount of GP's that may take place on DiabloSport products during a specific timeframe. The whole GP thing with DiabloSport most likely will end w/in a few short months because of the ability for it to be exploited and harm the other dealers, upset previously paying customers, and future customers, all for the sake of an approx. 5% discount.
There are dealers out there that can't even sell their buy-in's on products, such as SLP Performance products for the F-Bodies and Y-Bodies, and other GM's, as there is about a 5 to 10% profit margin on the product now, simply because of dealers abusing the system and destroying the market value of the products. DiabloSport takes this very seriously amongst its dealers!
I hope you all have a great weekend!
Very Sincerely...
"Maybe RWTD could address how many beta test vehicles there are, and how much test time has elapsed prior to a release."
Then again, maybe he'd rather not. ;)
RWTD, The hole is getting pretty big. lets discuss a product that is already available, The Diablo Sport Hellion OBD-II reader. Where can I get a manual or information as to whether or not it works on the D-max? Oh ya, have you tested or PERSONALLY seen the predator for the D-max in action? Has anyone received a tracking number this second week of Jan.???
FirstDiesel
01-11-2003, 07:46
Being generous and counting last week as not the first week of January, the way I see it the first week is gone. And who has taken delivery??? I understand developement etc but when you make announcements like was done with this product you either better deliver or explain. It looks more and more like this thing has problems they are hiding. If not why are they not letting Beta testers speak up with the results, good and bad.
This may turn out to be the best product there is for the DMax but it would take me a long time to buy one just based on the way the manufacturer has handled the release of the product. Besides a good product you need support and how can you feel comfortable with a product that has been handled this way?? I wouldn't.
RWTD- just repeating what I heard from a dealer in Daytona Beach who is considered very reputable. I am sure you are too. Being such, I suggest you take your order list and make them priority for first delivery when the product is available. Meanwhile, refund all the advance payments in the absence of any real release date. E-mail the people when the product is available and let them know you will be processing their payments again.
If you want the phone number and contact at the Central FL distributor I will give it to you privately and you can speak direct if you want.
I do not want to do any harm to any company. This is a forum for sharing info and that's all I intended to do.
[ 01-11-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]</p>
KEEP MY MONEY................LISTEN TO ME
B!TCH AND MOAN.........WHEN THEY COME IN SHIP MINE FIRST ! :D DAVE
[ 01-11-2003: Message edited by: sdaver ]</p>
Any customer who has already purchased a Predator for your Duramax on the pre-order status is very much welcome to receive a refund for your payment, whether you choose to re-purchase the unit at a later date or not. You are also welcome to the same 15 day money back guarantee from the time of your delivery, that any other customer will have. The advantage to the pre-sale is that you will receive this product first.
TraceF, I appreciate your assistance on business education, friend.
As for the distributor in "?", I know who it is, and so does DiabloSport. This distributor has stated that they have not stated any information that would make anyone believe that DiabloSport is not happy with the results they are getting. If your dealer disputes that, then they need to take the issue up with DiabloSport. I do, however, realize that you are here not to harm anyone, but to share information in a mature manner, so please do not think I am stating otherwise.
The numbers I have given you are the results that they are getting. The issue, again, is that DiabloSport wants to include the '03 Duramax tunes for the initial release.
Those who are away for the rest of the weekend have a great one, and everyone else, have a great night!
Sincerely...
[ 01-11-2003: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>
RWTD,
what about the hellion??? do you read the posts???
The Hellion's manual can be downloaded at www.eobd.com
As for whether or not this unit will work on the Duramax, I am unsure, as I have never personally tested that application, nor have I had a customer with a Duramax purchase one. The Predator for the Duramax will have specific diesel diagnostics and monitoring, and I doubt the Hellion will incorporate these same/similar options until after they release the Predator for the Duramax, and then apply updates to the Hellion.
I should have a list of the diagnostics and what all it monitors soon. Once I do I will post the information for everyone.
Very Sincerely...
Thanks RWTD, I would be curious to know what it can read on a D-max.
Anyone get a tracking number today???
[ 01-13-2003: Message edited by: AKDmax ]</p>
TTT
Just for Sdaver......A constant reminder.....His credit card is being charged interest as he awaits,the arrival......That has'ta sting !!!!! tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif ;)
MAC :D :D
[ 01-14-2003: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
YEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.....HAVE NOT SEEN THE STATEMENT OR THE PREDATOR. IM ACCRUING INTEREST ON ONE AND LOSING INTEREST IN THE OTHER....... :mad: DAVE
[ 01-14-2003: Message edited by: sdaver ]</p>
Friends, repeated punches is not helping the matter any, and is only continually causing unnecessary displeasure, no matter how playful or harmless they may seem. I'm not trying to moderate your free speech, nor am I attemping to scold anyone, but we all know that emotions and anticipation can be devilish feelings.
Going on, sdaver, I'm working on them as we speak, bud. Please hang in there for me! That goes for everyone, as I appreciate the patience!
Very Sincerely...
Interest on my credit card would be about $4.00 dollars a month. No Big deal. Come on guys get a life.
The Devil is in the details. And that's just it, there have been no details for some time. Major software changes prior to a release is never a good idea. This release could be weeks away.
A direct contact to the Diablo guys (non sales person) might get a straight answer for once.
hdmax(mike)
01-14-2003, 13:37
So, Can I safely say that the predator will not be ready the 1st of January?
It started out as being ready the 1st, then changed to first week, then to first full week, (meaning the second week)then not until they have the 03`s included. I am about to give up, and try the Juice once more.
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