View Full Version : Aftermarket Exhausts
thechevyhdman
06-30-2002, 23:19
Thinking of getting a performance exhaust system, Probably the Banks, but would like to know whos got what and what kind of warranty its got. I want something with a good gargle to it but dont want to sound like a straight piped 3406 Cat throwing on the Jake Brake. Theres A Cummins-apart in my town straight piped that sounds good, but dont want anything that loud. Yeah and if possible let me know what metal the exhaust is made of, as the road salt up here will rust out most exhausts Ive had in 4 years. Does any exhaust systems have a straight out the back exit below the rear bumper ? Any replies appreciated.
Hey MACKIN will have some cash for ya next week.
Thanks Bill P
StevePala
07-01-2002, 09:17
I'm running a 5" system from Professional Exhaust in Sioux City, Iowa. It looks,sounds,and installed great. It's made out of aluminized steel and exits out the side. Even my wife noticed the power increase with just the exhaust system installed.
the Banks comes with a LTD life time warenty. i have one on order and it should be here in the next few day's. i think banks makes a very good product.
After reading, listening to other people and comparing prices on aftermarket exhaust, I decided to purchase the Banks Monster. I recently installed it (Very easy IMHO.) I fell in love with it instantly! Sounds great! You can tell the performance gain as well (how much I do not know.) I am going to take the advice from Eric at Banks and have it tacked on for extra security - I don't really trust any exhaust clamp. I can't see how anyone would be disappointed in this exhaust system. This is my first time business with Banks and I really like the first product. I look forward to purchasing future products from the folks at Banks.
BTW: The exhaust system comes with two good looking "Banks Power" stick on logo's that look great next to the Durmax Diesel Logo on each door. Now mine says "Banks Power Duramax Diesel" :D
[ 07-01-2002: Message edited by: GrayMax ]</p>
GMC D-Max
07-01-2002, 22:47
StevePala,
You didn't go into any detail on sound/loudness! I've talked to Bob in the past about his systems, and it seems like what I'm looking for, but what's your opinion on the noise level?
Magnaflow also makes a SS 4" system. I called them, and asked what was the bigger restriction in the exhaust, the muffler or the pipes. The Tech told me the muffler was 75% of the restriction. He said the GM pipes were actually pretty decent.
Anyway, since I wanted to keep my system stainless and my budget was hot, I had a 4x20" SS Magnaflow muffler installed. I could immediately tell the difference. The turbo spools a little quicker and the throttle response is better. The exhaust isn't any noisier than the engine, and at 63 mph the wind noise takes over--there is no annoying resonance.
I think the best solution is a 4" stainless system if you want the ultimate. However, if 75% of the gains are worth 40% of the price, then the muffler only may be a good option.
Blaine
Silver Bullet
07-02-2002, 21:17
GrayMax - How many pieces did the system come in?
AFP - Any problems with K&N AirChanrger?
Thanks.
If you really want a good sounding, good looking, high quality, system. Install the A.T.S. dual setup. I just had one installed last Thursday at A.T.S. in Salt Lake City on my way to Edge products. I really like it, but it is expensive. :( :( tpitt
SB,
I only have 1300 miles on the truck, which isn't long enough for an adequate evaluation. I had one on my 01 Z-71 for 11,000 miles with no problems. I do not expect any problems with the one on my DMax either. The motor likes the added airflow.
One of the Amsoil salesmen that post on this site provided a link to a test of paper, K&N, and Amsoil airfilters. They set up a testing fixture. The paper element let the most dirt through. The K&N reduced the dirt--I'm guessing five-fold over the paper. The Amsoil reduced the dirt even more than the K&N. However, no flow testing was done--will be in the future.
The K&N flows about double a paper element. I'm not sure what the Amsoil flows, but in previous tests I've seen with similar elements, the Amsoil will not flow as much air as the K&N. If the K&N is indeed flowing more air, this it will of course get dirtier than the Amsoil even if they are filtering at the same level. I think the Aircharger system should significantly outflow a stock (or even modified) factory airbox with either paper or the Amsoil. It will be interesting when flow figures are added into the filtering results. I won't have to speculate any more.
I am going to add a "Drycharger" to my K&N. Since one isn't readily available, I'm having Outerwears make me one. The cost is about $25. This will provide additional filtering of both dirt and water. It will reduce the flow by 10%, which won't be significant. A K&N covered enclosed in a Drycharger will still flow 180-190% of a paper filter. (The naked K&N flows double a paper filter.)
John Kennedy doesn't like the K&N on Diesels because he says they let a lot of dirt through. On his website he shows a 6.5 Diesel that has what appears to be grit in the intake tube past the filter, and this motor had a K&N filter. John says he's seen this happen with other motors using K&Ns.
My take on the grit is this. If the K&N will not let dust pass--as has been tested in a lab under controlled conditions, then if something as large as grit is getting through, there must be a leak or a defect in the filter.
The guy with the 400,000 mile DMax uses an K&N filter, and has reported no problems with it or with dirt getting in.
In my mind the bottom line is the K&N, when properly installed, filters much better than a paper filter and provides substantially more airflow. I guess we'll see if I'm right after a couple hundred thousand miles.
Blaine
Silver Bullet,
The Banks Monster consist of 6-pieces. They are:
- Head Pipe
- Flange pipe
- Intermediate pipe
- Muffler
- Tailpipe
- Chrome 5" tailpipe tip
Plus all the hardware of course such as gasket, and clamps.
As I said before, this was a very easy removal and installation process. The average person can install this in about an hour. It took me 2-hours because people in the shop kept starting up conversations with me about the huge exhaust I was installing and different things about my truck. I also had access to a lift which really made it easy for removal and installation.
I am also running an AMSOIL Air Filter as well.
The truck sounds stock at idle but once you accelerate, it has a very nice throaty sound. Try and find someone with a Banks if you can - even if it's installed on a Power Stoke. I believe you will be pleasantly suprised with the quality and most definately the sound. I do not have guages installed yet so I can't tell you about boost increase or EGT difference. Perhaps another Banks owner with guages can chime in on this one. Good luck in what you decide to go with.
Silver Bullet
07-03-2002, 07:37
AFP,
Thanks for the info, but you don't have to sell me on K&N. I have used them on all my motorcycles and trucks in the last 5 years. smile.gif I should have been more specific...I have read about some of the guys running this (along with other mods) throwing SES's. I am not 100% sure what SES (service engine soon?) stands for, so that is the info I am digging for...Thanks.
John Kennedy doesn't like the K&N on Diesels because he says they let a lot of dirt through. On his website he shows a 6.5 Diesel that has what appears to be grit in the intake tube past the filter, and this motor had a K&N filter. John says he's seen this happen with other motors using K&Ns.
My take on the grit is this. If the K&N will not let dust pass--as has been tested in a lab under controlled conditions, then if something as large as grit is getting through, there must be a leak or a defect in the filter.
I have also seen (and proven at RIII ) this happen on 6.5's with the round filter that clamps on with a hose clamp. Pretty hard to screw that up!
I've seen it on 6.2 NA, 4.3 TBI etc...
John,
I do not doubt your experience at all, and don't think I'm arguing with you. It's just my current experience and research lead me to a different explanation that you have come up with. It is often hard to accurately and objectively asses stuff like this--whether it concerns truck intakes, rifle accuracy, or aircraft malfunctions. (So many things aren't what they seem.) I should know for sure in a hundred thousand miles or so.
SB,
No codes with either my current truck or my past one. In fact, I have never had any vehicle throw any codes with any type of K&N filter or system.
Blaine
thechevyhdman
07-07-2002, 23:46
Yeah we run K&Ns on 4 different trucks all in severe duty use for stop and go, Id go through a normal fram or even GM air filter in a month, That was getting expensive especially for the stock GM filter with the foam pre element filter on it like 35 bucks. I spent the 40 0n the K&N and havent cleaned it for almost 8 months now, Granted the thing has stuff caked on it like no tommorrow but I have noticed alot of good turbo whistle with the K&N and in our 3 6.5s were getting a mile or two a gallon better, Which doesnt matter much anyways because the trucks never get more than 10 mpg for our vocation. Our old 454 got a whopping 4.5 miles a gallon. My take on the K&N will come soon when I get my oil analysis done, thats all the proof Ill need, But so far I think the K&Ns are great. I ran the Amsoil for a few weeks and honestly think the design of them is horrible, And I see no possible way you could clean them out 100 percent like the K&N, Its like trying to clean all the junk out of a sponge itll never happen. Anyways Im off the beaten path, Based on everyones replies and the name that Banks has, Im definately gonna go with the Banks. Thanks for your replies.
StevePala
07-08-2002, 15:01
GMC D-MAX,
The 5" sounds real good, like any system it's louder then stock but not offensive to other people, so I've been told. At start-up it hard to explain the sound but it kind of roars to life for a brief second. Then at idle, it has a throaty rumble no louder then the engine itself. In the mid range you can hear it when your right foot gets heavy. At cruise, say 80mph, just a low rumble.
Bob also has a baffled muffler in 5" but it's not as heavy duty as the straight flow I installed.
Why get a 4 when you can have a 5.
thechevyhdman
07-08-2002, 17:21
Steve Pala, I hope you will joining us for the CT members rendezous in Sept. Welcome to this site, Its great to see another Connecticutian in the site, lets see theres Mackin,Me, Tonkater, and quite a few others, See ya soon
Bill
i agree K&N is the only way to go. i do not trust amsoil one bit.
deadlyman
07-10-2002, 18:15
who makes the 5"
FirstDiesel
07-10-2002, 19:46
"i agree K&N is the only way to go. i do not trust amsoil one bit.
tmg115@hotmail.com"
Based on what kind of data?? Or this is this just your opinion??
just based on what i have seen.
my father ownes a car repair shop and will never go neer amsoil. i know a few racers and they all us K&N, i know a few machanics who swear by K&N and convinsed me to get one. and almost all of them don't use amsoil. i guess i buy high quality stuff. i have always thought you get what you pay for. so i go with whta i know will work.
And i never ever ever go by what one man says. no matter how popular he is.
FirstDiesel
07-11-2002, 16:48
And everything in your post is opinion. I thought you had hard facts for your statement. I guess I could say the same thing about the K&N. I'm not since I have no proof.
ya your right i don't have hard facts. my truck is mine and your truck is yours and we can do what we want with our trucks. but i am not going to let someone here one side of the story and be miss led.
i have grown up around cars and i know how to fix them. i see what happens when you use name brands VS cheap items. i have a father who is a mechanic and i have al ot of friends wh oare mechanics and i go with there advise mixed with the advise i get here to and i way the 2 out.
when i buy stuff for my truck i buy it local. just for the fact i don't trust the internet. don't get me wrong i am not trying to say this site is full of possers but you just don't know. you can be 14 or 60 i don't know and you can tell me you are 30 but how will i ever know unless i meet you?
all i am saying is don't trust everything you read over the internet. don't jump to one product becuase one guy says to. not when you are dealing with a 30-50 thousand dollar truck.
now everyone will hate me and try to ban me but oh well. i guess i spoke my mind and that is what matters right?
GMC-2002-Dmax
07-11-2002, 19:36
tmg115,
I don't think anyone can be right on this one. These trucks are about what we like and what we want. I don't claim to know everything that's why I'm here!!! Trying to learn from others. This site convinced me to buy a diesel so I'm thankful to everbody who posts here.
I don't Know if K&N is better than Amsoil or not. I know I ran a K&N on my 1987 GMC truck for 5 years and I think I cleaned it twice. I never felt any difference in power when it got dirty and I never heard of anyone who did not like them.
I know some people have strong opinions, I'm one of them. I also know that when you sell a product you usually beleive it's the best there is so there can be some bias as well.
That's JMHO and my $.02
GMC smile.gif
Larry,
TMG is allowed to post his opinion. His opinion is well founded. Many folks have had excellent service with K&Ns for a long time. A few haven't. This is normal with anything.
The K&N website shows standardized tests as to the amount of filtering and flow the K&N provides. An Amzoil guy here named Landry is conducting a test between K&N, Amsoil, and paper filters. He provided a link to it in an earlier post. The results of his test helped sell me on the K&N Aircharger system. His test shows how a K&N filters out much more stuff than a paper element. This is especially impressive when you consider a K&N flows twice as much air as a paper filter. The Amzoil filter filtered out even more dirt than the K&N. However, Laundry didn't have any flow figures posted yet. When he does, it will settle the issue. I suspect (that's just my opinion) the K&N flows significantly better than the Amzoil. If that is so, then the filtering level needs to be adjusted for the flow variances. If not, then the Amzoil would be the way to go--if you are just going to replace the filter.
I have had two K&N intake systems--a FIPK on my 01 5.3 Z-71, and the Aircharger I have on my curret 02 DMax. Both systems were/are extremely well engineered. They installed per the instructions, fit right, and were both easy to do. I have run K&N filters on several vehicles. I haven't kept detailed "before and after" stats. Freeing up the intake and exhaust are nearly always an excellent idea.
Hope that helps.
Blaine
GMC-2002-Dmax i agree 100%.
afp: good info thanks for the information.
FirstDiesel
07-12-2002, 04:33
The only point is that tmg115 posts what amounts to opinion like it is fact. JK has made it clear quite a few times he has seen problems on more than 1 truck with a K&N filter. I'm more likely to beleive him that someones opinion or someone who has a vested interest in the product.
Yes TMG115 is entitled to his opinion but someone reading his posts might take it as fact and be swayed in their choice.
JMHO
"The only point is that tmg115 posts what amounts to opinion like it is fact. JK has made it clear quite a few times he has seen problems on more than 1 truck with a K&N filter. I'm more likely to beleive him that someones opinion or someone who has a vested interest in the product."
JK tests are inconclusive as some members have pointed out on here and on pickuptruck.com
SoMnDMAX
07-12-2002, 08:36
TMG, inconclusive? No, they are actually real world. I too have seen the dirt deposits in the intake tracts of K&N equipped 6.5 TD's, as well as my Duramax. But, you believe what you want. That's your perogative.
I just got my latest oil test back from US Oil this morning. Silicon (dirt) levels with the K&N were 14 PPM and 10 PPM. I switched to the Amsoil filter, and my silicon levels dropped to 6, 5, and 5 PPM over the next three tests. That's proof enough for me that the filter filters better. But, my tests are probably inconclusive as well.
I'm not an Amsoil salesman, nor do I want to be. I just want to protect my engine as best I can. K&N has a good product, depending upon the application. I use them on my racer, and also on my motorcycle. But you will not find them on my diesels.
thechevyhdman
07-14-2002, 23:20
Well of course the guys who swear buy Amsoil are going to sell there own stories to you on Amsoil products. Why? Because they sell Amsoil products, knocking on Amsoil ruins their commission on what they sell. I guess Id do it too if my livelyhood would depend on it. But then again Id rather tip garbage cans like I do now then sell stuff, Its not my personality to tell people what they want to hear. Amsoil is much of the like of a company called AMWAY. Ever hear of it? They come to your house selling you no name junk for cheap prices. And the people selling it are gonna blow as much smoke up your keyster as they can. The more they sell the higher up the "Pyramid" they make it. And Imsure for some people theyll do anything possible to make it to the "Gold Member" standing or the "platinum" level. Whether it means telling you how it is, our telling you what you want to hear. I know what they are going to say. Amsoil has been around for quite along time now what like 27 years. First a company thats been around for that amount of time must make some money, but, How come if there products are so good, they arent popular yet. I never even heard of the company until joining a diesel page. It doesnt make sense. What else I dont understand is how come the owner whats his name Mazzunio or something Italian never patented Synthetic oil. It seems that if they were the first company sythetic theyd be the head honchos of synthetics. It just seems that theres something fishy with it. I have run both the K&N and the Amsoil oiled up couch cushion filter. What one do I run now In 5 company trucks worth well over $200,000. K&N. I have no backing no scientific evidence, nothing. But I can say Personally i WOULD NEVER BUY AMSOIL AGAIN. Luckfully I was able to pawn off the other filter for half what I paid for it but whatever. It just seems that when A company is good, their popular, well known, well exposed, And own the market they are a part of. Like oil wise I think Rotella T by Shell has a fabulous name, and a chunk of the market. K and N has been around what maybe 10 years at most and look at the market they have. Liflinger runs them in the cars they soup up, and many other performance companies. I just think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This is my opinion we arent in communist China. This is America the first Amendment guarantees me free speech which I am practicing now thanks to people like the founding fathers for having the ingenuity, strength, and intelligence for forming rules guaranteeing us freedom. And thanks to Veterans that fought and died for these basic freedoms we encase in our daily lives. "All gave some, and some gave all" Now back to the story, I have seen both sides of the fence And I swear by K&N. Besides, anyone who says that they can clean an Amsoil filter as clean as a K&N filter after its dirty I think is just wrong so TMG, Im behind you entirely on your opinion. And I will not condemn someone else of there opinion it just seems that some people stick by a product not because of how good it is.It might just be that they depend on these products, good or bad as they might be to fatten their own wallets.
thechevyhdman,
I don't get it.
You said....
"I have no backing no scientific evidence, nothing. But I can say Personally i WOULD NEVER BUY AMSOIL AGAIN."
The bottom line is how well does it flow, trap dirt, and last (durability).
Unless someone does a real controlled scientific comparison, not dropping dirt on a homemade hokey plexiglass filter test box, we can argue till our faces turn blue with no final determination.
I like some of the oil analysis results some guys are getting with the Amsoil -vs- K&N. I believe oil analysis is the best indicator of cleaning ability we have right now.
Tell tale signs of dirt in the intake passage would also be a good comparison.
I beleieve the K&N does a good job when new but I also belive after repeated cleanings that the filter media breaks down. This I believe, has been shown to be true.
Now, in the life expectancy of our trucks and the recomended cleaning intervals, that fact may not be significant. Some people may be too agressive in cleaning the K&N or they have kept them around believing they were "forever" filters. I'm sure in real racing, those guys simply want all the flow they can get. I'm surprised they don't just use a fine mesh screen since they expect to rebuild the engine much more often then we would.
I really like how well my Amsoil filter fit so tightly in my airbox. It has a dense foam surround that I believe is "closed cell" to provide a compressed seal. The inner portion has a heavy steel "grate" on the inside to hold the filter foam from distorting or being drawn in. The design is well thought out.
As far as Amsoil products are concerned, I 've been familiar with them for many years. Heck, even our local speed shop AND GM performance shop carries Amsoil.
Well, you guys keep on choosing to ignore George Morrison's findings. If you cant take the word of a guy with his background/ education...
The turbo repair guys see it.
The oil analyzers see it.
I see it, and have shown it to many people.
I guess our findings are inconclusive...
Oh yeah, and that silicon content in your oil analysis is skewed beacause they use "mineral" oil and:
"The oil contains dissolved silicates and tiny droplets
can come off and wind up skewing oil analysis results.
The same brain surgeon wrote:
"Silicone itself is not harmful, neither is small particles. It is larger
particles that will cause wear. A motor oil molecule is 5 microns in size
and synthetic oil is larger than that (up to 10 microns). Anything smaller
than the molecule will literally be trapped by it without causing any harm.
Some dirt is expected to get through any and all air filters. That is why
you have a filter for your oil too."
I gotta wonder how synthetic oil gets in between moving parts OR through a filter at 10 microns in size
:confused:
I would be concerned with an air filter that flows good when it's dirty and doesn't need to be cleaned often.
I would like a filter that gets dirty. Isn't that the whole idea? Get the filter dirty, not the inside of the engine?
thechevyhdman
07-15-2002, 19:37
I am basing these products, the K&N and the Amsoil filter on My own initial quality beliefs. I can say that I know, by cleaning my KN how clean it is. If the cottons white with no dirt its clean. Now how do you tell me when you know all the dirt is out of your Amsoil filter. The filter is black, unless dust and dirt is white its gonna blend right in with the color of the foam. Secondly, how can you possibly get every scrap of dirt out of the Amsoil filter. Its like cleaning the bacteria or dirt out of a sponge. There is no guarteed way to tell, Why, because there thick they have millions of millions of tiny deep crevices, caves holes, Which granted probably trap dirt in. (thats good) But will not release this dirt when clean(not so good). Now personally I dont know whats wrong with having silicon in my oil so Im not gonna say much to it. Unless silicon breaks down oil, or causes some chemical reaction or whatever I dont know. I will just to tickle my own fancy, have my oil tested at next oil change, its still another 4,000 miles away but it will be done as always within 200 miles of 7,000 miles. That will prove to me the worth of the K&N. Maybe the high silicon ppm is from people over oiling their K&N. I dont think Liflinger or Callaway would use a sub-par air filter in cars whose engine alone is worth more than our trucks. I respect your opinions Maybe by me saying the cleaning part in the previous response was wrong but Personally I see no possible way to tell the following. How clean it is. How much dirt is still in it, If the oil has gone entirely through both sides and every inch of that filter, and how well it traps dirt. Excessive play in a turbo can be blamed on things other than a K&N filter, Dirt in oil can be blamed on other things than a air filter. (Bad oil changing practices etc) Just because my truck blows up down the road doesnt mean its from my K&N sometimes it just happens for reasons unknown, or known that are not deemed responsible from a filter. $hit Happens. All I know is Ive seen both and In MY OPINION, Id rather have the K&N. When Amsoil is sold in every store that sells oil, or even every auto parts store Then maybe Ill take notice, but till then They might be a sleeping giant waiting to wake up, or they might just be a sub par company, I dont know for sure but thats well to quote many people on this site, My own .02 cents
Rinsing the foam in clean diesel fuel or kerosene until the cleaner shows no sign of discoloration should be sufficient.
Re-oil and install.
Thechevyhdman,
Please send me an e-mail at painterb@sbcglobal.net. I have a couple questions and this thread is going bad.
Blaine
My 2 cents worth: Definition of silicon: Dirt!
Dirt is like sandpaper, it causes wear, if you don't want dirt in your engine analyze your oil and check it at recommended intervals. Otherwise just drive it and trade it off when it's worn out.
What's the big deal, it's a free country, do what you think is best!
OH, I almost forgot, I want an after market exhaust for my Dmax too!
2001 Dmax/All Ext/Cab/Sb Lt/W 57000+miles
Edge Juice
265 Coopers
Amsoil Airfilter
[ 07-16-2002: Message edited by: Joe.G ]</p>
SoCalDMAX
07-16-2002, 20:43
Gentlemen, (yes, that includes all of you ;) )
The individual strands of cotton gauze that K&N filters are made of is capable of moving in relationship to each other. This means that there is no way of keeping uniform filtration with regard to particle size using that type of filter.
I have a K&N filter on my Mustang, and I can hold it up and see holes in the filter media considerably larger than the rest of the filter media. In the Navy, when filtering air thru activated charcoal filter beds, personnel are cautioned not to use excessive pressure (high velocity air, since the pipe dia. is fixed), or it will cause "tunneling" which creates large passages thru the media and the air is no longer filtered.
The Amsoil filter is made of a (medium?) density open celled foam. The size of the passages are fixed and won't increase over time, as my K&N filter did. In this turbocharged application where GM had to remove THE ENTIRE SIDE OF THE AIRBOX to allow enough airflow not to trigger the filter minder, can anyone honestly say with absolute certainty that the velocity of the air flowing thru the filter is not causing the individual fibers in a K&N filter to move? Can anyone guarantee that the velocity is not causing "tunneling" and allowing large amounts of dirt to get through?
I've got 12,000mi on my Amsoil filter in the Dmax and the intake is spotlessly clean. The intake on my Mustang is nowhere near as clean. Until I read the info here, I had no idea Amsoil made filters or how they were constructed. Knowing what I do from past experience, the construction materials and their properties made sense once I found out about them.
The reasoning behind the "well K&N is really popular, so they must be right" isn't very good. By that reasoning, the stock paper filter is best, because most people run them. The vast majority of Americans overpay their income taxes. That doesn't make it right. It's fiscally irresponsible to throw money away, and I won't do it just because most people do.
Ever heard of Oberg oil filters? Excellent full flow, high filtration, cleanable, reusable. No? That's because their marketing wasn't as good as their engineering. As strange as it sounds, there is a lot of good stuff out there that some have never heard of, and by being stubborn, it's no wonder.
When someone of John Kennedy's credentials tells you of his results or tests he's witnessed, do you think he does it just to make a buck? No, he wants to make several bucks. If he believed in K&N and it screwed up your engine, would you believe a word he says or buy from him in the future? NO. It's in his best interests to look out for your best interests. He wants to find and sell the best products, then you're happy and will come back. He plays with a lot of stuff. I'm sure we don't hear about the stuff that doesn't work out. He takes his lumps on his personal truck so you don't have to.
When someone of George Morrison's credentials relates his findings from yrs of experience, I find it hard to ignore. I don't have the time nor equipment to test like he does. When he and JK both say the same thing, I tend to believe them between lab results and empirical data.
Everyone is free to do/buy what they want. But please don't accuse people of trying to profit at someone else's expense. Hoot, SoMNDmax, George don't sell Amsoil, nor do I. Kennedy does, but it's in an honest belief in the product.
Greg Landuyt is an Amsoil vendor here, and he's never made it a secret. Instead of telling people "It's the best!" he conducted tests at the Rendezvous to prove it. Insulting people for trying to pass on factual info is not conducive to the free exchange of info on this forum.
I take great pains to specify what is fact and what is my opinion. I have a great deal of respect for those who've always done the same, like those I've mentioned above. I don't want anyone to turn away from threads like this just because there are differing viewpoints. Let's keep the dialog going, and keep it respectful, we all learn that way.
OK, stepping off soapbox now. :D
Regards, Steve
Yawning....
You guys keep this up and I'm going back to STOCK, WET PAPER ELEMENT.......And swear by it too....... Does any one know the money KN spends on advertisement a year? ......Which six figure number do you want to put on it.....? They better sell a lot of units ........
I serviced my OILY COUCH CUSHION (I know I shouldn't call it that, but Dam it's funny) at the 10k mark and my intake air tube was clean as you would like to see it, in addition so was the mass air sensor.....Hey,buy what you want, it's your cash.....
MAC :D
Lone Eagle
07-16-2002, 21:39
John, I want to start by saying I use Amsoil products and think they are the best. I don't understand the little part at the end of your post about 5 & 10 micron molecules getting between the moving parts. If my math is right a micron is .000039". A 10 micron molecule is still only .00039". There might be some truth to what that brain surgeon said. Someone mentioned seeing holes in the filter. If you can see them, they are big and will let some serious dirt through. Later! Lone Eagle :cool:
Don't forget, it was More Power in the 1998? Feature articles who did the air filter shootout. That was MY eye opening experience! I was running a K&N and the next time I serviced it, I looked in the turbine inlet elbow and saw the grit. I then pulled the K&N from my 6.5 and it lay on the bench collecting dust. I later did the same with my 1984 6.2 and it (naturally aspirated) had grit settled inside the filter on the bottom of the housing.
I will say, it is MUCH more apparent when there is a film of oil or "tack" barrier downstream from the filter. This way when the dirt falls from the airstream, it gets stuck and will accumulate.
And before anyone states that MP did the article to help his Amsoil advertisers, take note: There was NO Amsoil advertiser with the site at the time. IIRC an Amsoil guy by the name of Don Peters supplied the filter...
Lone Eagle,
If a filter removes particles down to 1 micron (I believe there are 3 micron absolute filters for bypass applications) then how will a 5-10 micron oil molecule pass through a filter?
IIRC, most wear is from sub 5 micron particles as they are small enough to follow the oil film between objects. There are obviously a lot of oil molecules between moving parts therefore, they have to be small.
Anyone know the size range of an oil molecule, AND is there a difference between petro and synthesized oils?
[ 07-16-2002: Message edited by: kennedy ]</p>
SoMnDMAX
07-16-2002, 22:56
SoCal, nice writeup!! :cool:
Lone Eagle
07-17-2002, 13:28
Some good points John but I don't think anyone's automotive oil or air filter will filter out 1 micron or even 3. We used 10 micron oil filters to protect our 170K IR Centac compressors that are turning 48,000 RPM. I can't remember what the intake micron size was. We used .4 micron filters on the discharge side and the air dryers and they did not remove all the moisture. I would like to see a comparrison chart of the leading filter's showing the micron size they could filter out. The oil companies can tell us their molecule size for sure. I went out last night and pulled the top off my filter and wiped the tube with a clean paper towel. I still have the GM paper. (Amsoil is on order) There was nothing that I could see on the towel but then I don't think I could see 10 micron particles unless there were alot of them. It is the junk you can't see that will hurt our engines as well as the big. Later! Lone Eagle
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