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View Full Version : Where's the LLY mpg???



Kennedy
04-04-2005, 10:24
This is something I hear quite a bit of negative feedback about, and for the life of me cannot understand where the problem is. We did another one of our "marathon" trips to MI to drive my daughter home this weekend with the overall average being 19.425 mpg. Hard to knock that.


Loyal WI to Manistee MI:

Outbound was using the VA Smart Box LLY and burning Amoco #2 winterized diesel fuel (as labeled on pump) from Brenner Oil in Loyal with 8 oz of my FPPF additive cocktail added. We left in the 5:00 AM hour CST arrived Manistee MI approx 10.5 hrs later (2 food/snack stops and a driver swap) logging 582.5 miles on 29.2 gallons calculating to approx 19.95mpg. DIC calculated 23.5mpg and 24.7 gallons used. The DIC inaccuracy can be attributed to the VA box.


Manistee MI to Loyal WI:

Return trip was using the Edge LLY EZ and burning Amoco Premier (as labeled on pump) fuel from a BP station on the south end of Manistee MI with 8oz of additive also. We left Manistee in the 4:00 PM hour CST and arrived home about 10 hrs later (one food stop and a couple of driver swaps) logging 584.1 miles on 30.9 gallons calculating to 18.9mpg. The DIC calculated 18.9mpg and 30.9 gallons on the head.


Vehicle specs/standards:

2005 3500SRW truck with open bed and 6-7k on the clock. Oil is Mobil Delvac 1 15w40 with KD bypass filtration. All other fluids original. Tires are 265 (std size) Michelin LTX MS at 70 psi front and 60 psi rear. KD 4-5 exhaust, Uni foam filter in stock box and non functional EGR. Fuel filter was fresh at 3,000 miles. Filtermag RA 450 on fuel filter, RA 365 on oil filter and 300 series on Allison spin on. Bilstein shocks on all 4 corners since new.


Background:

Historically, we see our best mpg going out and a solid decrease on the return as was apparent here. My LB7 truck logged 20.2 on a similar run but it has a bed cover, more miles, and the weather conditions had us going a bit slower at times.


Driving Habits and the DIC:


What becomes VERY apparent is the influence of speed on MPG. While engine speed is definitely a factor, I believe that wind resistance is the key contributor here. On the return trip, the DIC was working upwards from 20.4 mpg when we hit the interstate which was a good 70 miles into the return if memory serves. When we left the interstate (Mackinac bridge) it was down to 17.5mpg. By the time we hit the interstate at Bonduel WI it had crept back up to 19.4 I believe. Interstate travel in MI was at 75mph with posted speed of 70mph. Interstate speed in WI was at 71mph with posted speed of 65mph. All non interstate was run at 60-62 mph. I believe the MPG calc was at 23.8 when we hit the MI Interstate and it took less of a hit then recovered a bit on the slower roads.

Even if the DIC is rendered inaccurate by a power module, it still is a VERY useful tool. It becomes quite obvious what inputs and conditions can influence mpg in both positive and negative ways. It is particularly obvious that starting out cold will drop it substantially with the loss of efficiency on a cold engine. That and the influences/number of stopping and acceleration cycles....

[ 04-05-2005, 04:23 AM: Message edited by: kennedy ]

gandrimp
04-04-2005, 10:57
Kennedy your truck is a 4x4 is that correct?Mine is a 05 lly 4x4 dually cc long box driven at 60 to 65 mph most of the time and is getting 16.1 to 16.3 mpg with 10K on the meter.I have a Bully dog box set on level 1.Is there that much difference in these boxes.Dont get to check the milage often due to a trailer is usually taggin along.

tanker
04-04-2005, 12:24
Driving down I-95 to Richmond Va. at 65mph I was showing 21.5 mpg! ;) Thought hey that can't be true. :rolleyes: So comming home at 74mph I was showing 19.6mpg, so I stopped in Maryland and filled it up, and did some math, and I came out with 19.5 mpg. ;) Local stop and go to work and back, (a lot of red lights etc.) I'm showing 15.3mpg. All this is much better than my ole 95 6.5 suburban. Never saw over 18mpg highway, and around 14 back and fourth to work. So I'm happy, can't wait to hitch up the trailer and see how it goes. I'm impressed so far.
Of course I probably drive like an ole man, but hey I'm over 60, so I guess I'm allowed. :D

mdadgar
04-04-2005, 12:45
I've got an '02 2500HD 4x4 CC D/A. My best tank ever was 20.02 and that was 100% freeway at 55mph.

I get about 16mpg driving my normal 70mph in pure freeway.

My normal combined city/high is about 14mpg. No way do I get the mileage other people here claim to. Powertrain is stock and all numbers above are corrected 4% for the 265 tires.

Color me disappointed.

- Mark

Kennedy
04-05-2005, 04:27
Originally posted by gandrimp:
Kennedy your truck is a 4x4 is that correct?Mine is a 05 lly 4x4 dually cc long box driven at 60 to 65 mph most of the time and is getting 16.1 to 16.3 mpg with 10K on the meter.I have a Bully dog box set on level 1.Is there that much difference in these boxes.Dont get to check the milage often due to a trailer is usually taggin along. Yes, mine is 4x4.

silverback
04-05-2005, 19:15
JK,
I'm interested in your tire pressure specification. Did you develop the F/R 70/60 PSI on your own or is this the recommended pressure for an 05 3500 SRW from Chevy? I know the recommended F/R PSI for my 04 2500 is almost the opposite.
Thanks,
Ken

tanker
04-06-2005, 01:58
The recomended TP on a 3500 SRW is Frt. 60psi, and Rear 75psi, w/LT265/75R-16E tires, that will allow a full 9900lb. GVW. When not towing I run 60psi all around, put will increase rear TP when hitched up. smile.gif

Kennedy
04-06-2005, 06:30
Originally posted by silverback:
JK,
I'm interested in your tire pressure specification. Did you develop the F/R 70/60 PSI on your own or is this the recommended pressure for an 05 3500 SRW from Chevy? I know the recommended F/R PSI for my 04 2500 is almost the opposite.
Thanks,
Ken For empty running I tend to run less in the rear as the weight is much less back there. The higher you air a lightly loaded tire, the more it tends to crown and pull the shoulders off of the raod surface. The rear shock load on bumps also gets pretty sharp when aired high without load. When I carry load, I often increase rear psi to as much as 80.

BMDMAX
04-06-2005, 14:12
My LLY numbers are right in line with yours, John. Even running the snot out of it here lately, with the Predator or Juice I am getting 15 to 16 around town.

Last long range trip we got 20 heading down and 19 back up from Florida. So far I am happy with the mileage.

I don't get that good in my LB7 but I might be a bit harder on it than the LLY. ;)

VT_mountain_man
04-06-2005, 17:24
Just got back from VT today, Ran 70mph most of the trip up North, Got 19.5 MPG running my stock 2004.5 2500HD with an open rear box.

On the trip home pulling my trailer loaded at about 6500lbs. I got 16.2 mpg running 65 to 70 mph. I did the math both times by hand and the DIC is always close within 0.2 or 0.3 mpg.

:D This is my 1st Diesel and I am impressed at how it pulls my trailer over the hills on I91 in VT. I have to keep looking to see if I am pulling the Trailer loaded ! It tends to go down the road like nothing is in tow.
Loaded or empty my truck likes to run around 65-70 mph at 2000 rpms and gets what I think is Very good Fuel mpg. My old Gas job only got about 13mpg on a good day running empty never mind towing a load.

[ 04-06-2005, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: VT_mountain_man ]

angus
04-06-2005, 21:36
I seem to be one of the unlucky ones in regard to the LLY fuel mileage. My best mileage came on the first tank of fuel coming home from the dealership, right at 20 mph.
Since then I am lucky to see 18 mpg unloaded. Worse yet, when I tow my 6000 lb covered snowmobile trailer at 60-70 mph I will only get 11-12 mpg. All these are based on actual figures not the DIC.

Jim Brzozowski
04-08-2005, 08:42
Angus, thats incredible, 11-12mpg?? Are you sure you're not reaching that 70mph in 8 seconds with a bunch of stop and go?

RVC
04-08-2005, 08:50
Angus

Are you taking into account the increase in distance travelled vs. milage shown because of the tire change? 245 to 265 is about 7% difference I think.

DmaxMaverick
04-08-2005, 09:44
Originally posted by RVC:
Angus

Are you taking into account the increase in distance travelled vs. milage shown because of the tire change? 245 to 265 is about 7% difference I think. 245 to 265 tires is a difference of less than 4%. 11-12 MPG seems unacceptably low, for "normal" driving. If you are using "winter" fuel, it could have a negative impact on economy, but shouldn't be that much.

angus
04-08-2005, 18:45
I have not figured in the 4% difference between the 245's and 265's when I calculate the milage, but that would account for less than 1 mpg.
Most of my trailer towing is during the summertime, with summer fuel, I noticed a slight drop in mileage with the winter blend fuel.
I certainly don't baby the truck when I am towing, but I'm no Mario Andretti. Most of the time I drive with the cruise set at 60-70.
Don't get me wrong, I love the truck but I have never been impressed with the towing mileage, and it does not seem to have the power that the LB7 truck I test drove before ordering the LLY.
I wonder if there is a re-flash of the ECU that might address these problems (just thinking out loud).
Thanks
angus