crankshaft deflection sensor on Cummins 600

[64postcarnut]

Got it from a DC tech on the Mopar site.The 600 will have a non-defeatable "CDS" on it's engine.It'll be interesting to find out how much torque over stock lights the trouble code and voids the warranty.

Can the Duramax be far behind?

[mark45678]

Cant say its a big issue I for one will never own a Dodge..... cummings well time will tell on that one, May be some day they will put there motor in some good p/u! ;)

[64postcarnut]

May be some day they will put there motor in some good p/u! ;) [/QB]I agree completely.That's how I ended up with a GMC.Also, my Silverado was totalled by a kid in a Honda.The insurance settlement was way above my expectations.

IMO,I like the int. and ext. styling of the Dodge best.I do feel the Cummins to be the most reliable.However,I've heard the truck falls apart around the engine,not to mention the tranny problems.Re-sale value is also the worst of the 3,probably due to it's Hecho en Mexico status.

You will never,ever hear a Mopar guy complain about reliablity or build quality.Their trucks always go 500,000 miles and never go to shop for repairs.No squeaks or rattles either.All BS!

Personally,I call it the way I see it and don't care who's offended.

My new GMC(3200 miles) already has too many cabin rattles for my tastes.If the squeaks get worse by the time I'm ready to upgrade the power(10K mi.),the truck goes down the road.

It's really too bad you can't mix 'n match trucks/parts.

[Tough Guy]

If someone can make a sensor and a program to detect something....there is always someone else who can make some wires and a program to fool the sensor.

Cheers

[SoMnDMAX]

I wonder if this isn't an enviro-nazi thing...

Crank deflection changes per power output- the more load on the engine, the more the crank twists. Now, if each cylinder fires @ "X" degrees BTDC, timed off the front of the crank, each subsequent cylinder will be programmed to fire at "X" degrees too. Now, add a bunch of load to that engine, especially an engine with a 4' long crank, the crank will twist. With the twist in the crank, the front cylinder will fire properly at "X" degrees. When it comes time to fire say, cylinder #6, there could be 3 degrees of crank twist (deflection). Instead of this cylinder firing at "X" degrees as it's programmed to, it'll actually fire at "X" + 3 degrees. The deflection in the crank could potentially alter the firing event, thus altering the emissions and efficiency of that firing event. Now, I realize the crank deflection changes with each firing event, and each section will see a different amount of deflection. The firing order is setup so that the deflection is minimized, also so the engine runs smoothly, but, there is still a bunch of defection there.

[edit] The crank deflection sensor could be used to optimize the cylinder to cylinder timing of the injector pulse (firing event), to fire each cylinder at PRECICELY the right time.

Potentially, the deflection sensor COULD produce a better running, smoother running, more efficient, more emissions friendly engine.

Follow my beer soaked logic here? :D

[ 12-28-2003, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: SoMnDMAX ]

[64postcarnut]

Very interesting observation.I obviously missed the other implication of a CDS.The tech that posted that tidbit didn't elaborate on its purpose.I had assumed it was to catch "bombers".Now I'm curious as to it's function.

I tried to find that thread from the tech, but it's gone.It was posted about a week or so ago.

[SoMnDMAX]

Originally posted by 64postcarnut:
I had assumed it was to catch "bombers".
That could very well be too. Dodge and Cummins obviously are aware of what folks do with the engines. I wonder how much $$$ they fork out in warranty repairs due to bombing each year.... The CDS may provide them with a way to trace it and control it, thus reducing warranty costs...

[McRat]

I'd wait and see some more tech on that before I'd pass judgement. If I understand it right, gas OBDII motors have a similiar sensor on them. It's used to determine misfires, which is a good thing.

[letsgo]

I had a crankshaft that had a 90 degree twist (deflection) once, not a pretty sight.

[mguebert]

You will never,ever hear a Mopar guy complain about reliablity or build quality.Their trucks always go 500,000 miles and never go to shop for repairs.No squeaks or rattles either.All BS!

Personally,I call it the way I see it and don't care who's offended. Probably got your info from a friend of a friend whp heard from a friend too! WOW that's what I call a reliable and informed opinion.

I think if you really check, you will find that people who own the Dodges and post on Dodge related sites are no different in their complaints or praises of their particular choice in trucks.

Bottom line, people are going to buy what they like. All of the trucks are pretty good, all have their problems. None are perfect.

I chose to dump my Duramax after several minor problems and two injector problems. I chose not to wait and see how long GM stuck their heads in the sand and deny injectors are an issue (most likely becuase of fuel filtration) and do something about it. I chose not to wait for another 6.5 pump fiasco.

BTW, I also think if you really look, that the quality of the Dodge trucks other than the motor has improved greatly. So far 12K on my truck and no shop visits. By that point my Dmaxs life it had been in the shop several times.

[64postcarnut]

Originally posted by mguebert:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />You will never,ever hear a Mopar guy complain about reliablity or build quality.Their trucks always go 500,000 miles and never go to shop for repairs.No squeaks or rattles either.All BS!

Personally,I call it the way I see it and don't care who's offended. I think if you really check, you will find that people who own the Dodges and post on Dodge related sites are no different in their complaints or praises of their particular choice in trucks.

Bottom line, people are going to buy what they like. All of the trucks are pretty good, all have their problems. None are perfect.

I chose to dump my Duramax after several minor problems and two injector problems. I chose not to wait and see how long GM stuck their heads in the sand and deny injectors are an issue (most likely becuase of fuel filtration) and do something about it. I chose not to wait for another 6.5 pump fiasco.

BTW, I also think if you really look, that the quality of the Dodge trucks other than the motor has improved greatly. So far 12K on my truck and no shop visits. By that point my Dmaxs life it had been in the shop several times. </font>[/QUOTE]The guys on the Moparts site are the ones who never have problems.I did join the diesel resource page.I wanted to see what the Cummins boys are up to.And yes,your right.They too have problems to contend with.My loyalty only extends to the builder of a reliable truck.If I see the problems that you had,it goes down the road.Period.

My hang-up is buying a Mexican built truck.But, that's my problem.

As long as we're being honest,how many squeaks or rattles do you have in your cabin?

P.S. a Cummins tech replied that the deflection would be nearly impossible to measure.So,I guess that's a dead issue.No CDS!

[ 12-29-2003, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: 64postcarnut ]

[Amianthus]

Originally posted by 64postcarnut:The guys on the Moparts site are the ones who never have problems.I did join the diesel resource page.I wanted to see what the Cummins boys are up to.And yes,your right.They too have problems to contend with.My loyalty only extends to the builder of a reliable truck.If I see the problems that you had,it goes down the road.Period.

My hang-up is buying a Mexican built truck.But, that's my problem.

As long as we're being honest,how many squeaks or rattles do you have in your cabin?

P.S. a Cummins tech replied that the deflection would be nearly impossible to measure.So,I guess that's a dead issue.No CDS! [/QB]You must really be a nut. The last time I checked, my truck still had the St.Louis, MO. assembly sticker in the window. But hey, what do I know about my own truck. Maybe I should have you count how many stickers there are in YOUR truck that say "Made in Mexico" or "Assembled in Mexico". Eh?

As for rattles and squeaks, apparently you know better than I how many rattles and squeaks I have. So how many do I have? Please, tell me so that I can whine and complain about them without cause. I'd really like to know. Tell you what, I'll buy you a beer for every squeak and rattle you can find on my truck (if you can even hear them). Sound like a deal?

Tell you what, before you start spewing this second-hand crap as gospel, why don't you get it straight from the horse's mouth? Is that so much to ask?

[64postcarnut]

Your personal attack on me is childish!

You're ignorance shows.The trucks are built in Saltillo,Mexico and St.Louis,Mo.We get Mexican trucks out here.That's why Dodge re-sale value SUCKS!

Continue your personal attacks if it makes you feel better superior.

[SoCalDMAX]

OK guys, let's tone it down a little please.

While we are all entitled to our opinions, it's not very productive to get negative about other products/brands. Let's not go down that road.

I also call it as I see it, and believe me, I read my posts 4 or 5 times and edit them a lot before posting to ensure that I convey my intended message without stepping on toes or being misunderstood. Come to think of it, if I was this careful when speaking, there'd be far fewer bald managers where I work. I don't know if it falls out or if I burn it off... ;)

But this is the important part: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to BOTH of you! May the coming year bring the joy of diesel ownership and an ear to ear grin every time that engine roars to life, because that's why we're all here, isn't it? :D

Regards, Steve

[mguebert]

My hang-up is buying a Mexican built truck.But, that's my problem. As long as we're being honest,how many squeaks or rattles do you have in your cabin? P.S. a Cummins tech replied that the deflection would be nearly impossible to measure.So,I guess that's a dead issue.No CDS! I understand wanting to buy a truck assembled in the US. But also consider the fact that alot of outsourcing occurs even in vehicles assembled here. Most every vehicle made has a percentage of foreign content in it. I wanted to buy one assembled here, but I could not find one. However, the QC controls should be the same due to it being a DC plant anyway, and let's be honest, mexican employees probably have a better work ethic.

As far as rattles I have none at 12K, to be fair my Chevy only had minor rattles at 53K when I got rid of it. I hope the Dodge continues to impress.

[Amianthus]

Steve,
You're always a good egg and an advocate of the Brand Diesel. I hope your Christmas was pleasant and your New Year's brings you many resolutions (that we all know you won't keep anyway:D).

As for me, I'm gonna take my ignorant, under-powered, Dodge Ram rattle trap driving arse and try to master the third gear burnout. (Now where did I put that "Diesel Driving for Dummies" tome?)

[DMAXdreamin]

So-called

[Amianthus]

Dude, rant all you like. As far as I'm concerned anyway. At least you've got first-hand experience with your troubles and are not in denial of them. The situation you are in truly sucks (MOTO that I am).
Although, I don't completely agree with your evaluation of American Quality, I certainly do understand your point of view.

But, we digress.

[mguebert]

So-called ?American Quality? is way overrated in my opinion. I worked at a company that had a TV plant in the USA and one in Mexico. The Mexican plant consistently had better quality than the plant in the USA. The reliability of workers just keeps getting worse in the US in my opinion I tend to agree with you on the quality and reliability of American workers. It boggles my mind. I could not perform my job with the lack of quality and live with myself.

I used to go round and round with a buddy of mine who is extremely down on American workers as being lazy and would do anything to get out of work. I always defended them. I have changed my mind after going through the hell of building a new home. I have witnessed time after time, corner cutting, laziness, and overall lack of quality from my builder. The worst part is I would not even know about it and it would be hidden behind walls ect if I had not been there at every chance to catch these problems.

As a result I have been banned from going to the home without an appointment. Goes to show what they will do to avoid doing the right thing.

I know that wanders a little far afield of the diesel discussion here. But my experiences with GM and my injector problems were much of the same. Denial by GM of the problem. Problem solved for me anyway, by trading the truck.

[kerry witherspoon]

Banned from inspecting your house as its being built something wrong with that picture. If i was told that i walk away from it somebudy hiding something.

[mguebert]

Banned from inspecting your house as its being built something wrong with that picture. If i was told that i walk away from it somebudy hiding something. That is exactly what we will most likely do if they miss the target date again, and give us an opening to walk without loosing our investment. I feel like they made the situation confrontational, and are trying to hide things.

Very much like the situation with the injectors on my truck. I felt like GM knew about the problems with the injectors on the early 01's and rather than to the right thing and replace the set, they were only going to replace the bad 2 injectors. That normally would not have bothered me. But with less than 50K left who knows how many more would be original and failing outside the warranty, at a substantial investment to me. So I dumped the truck. If the injectors had been more reasonably priced, and positioned so it was easier to service DIY, I might have kept the truck. But GM stonewalling ticked me of, after such a substanial investment.

[Rockin]

My experience has been there are many people having homes built that are perfectionists. A great example is people that watch the framing phase of the house and throw a total fit because some of the studs are cracked. It doesn't look pretty but has no effect on the house. In a complete house, how many studs crack after the rock is up?

You can come up with a lot of reasons: "I paid $*.** X 10^5 for my house and I want it perfect" etc. but if you want it perfect, it will cost you. If cracked studs are replaced, think of it in terms of $7/hr at probably an hour per cracked stud.

You may have a great worker that works hard and does quality work. He his just being smart and expending his effort on quality installation rather than replacing cracked studs which has no effect on the quality of the work.