air lift ?'s

[ochster]

Just ordered a "air lift" set-up from Kennedy. I will be using the bag's without a onboard compressor. Will this kit come with some sort of line with a single fill schrader? or will each side have a schrader valve on the bag?

[Kennedy]

Each bag will have it's own fill port. They can be mounted in the rear bumper.

Having an on-board control is quite nice as you can fine tune much more easily.

[Sneaks]

As an owner of air bags without the on board compressor, take it from me - mount both fill valves next to each other! Wherever you put them! Mine were installed one on each side of the truck and it is a pluperfect pain in the anal sphincter that way. Oh if yer a young Harley rider like JK, it might be a piece of cake, but if you're already hooked up to a 5th wheel trailer and your knees are over 65, it ain't so much fun. :(

[Husker Fan]

I took the two mounting nuts that hold the rear license plate off, and mounted the air valves there. Works perfect, and is not noticable!

[rjwest]

Mounted fill valves inside fuel door
10 and 2 o'clock position...

[VFRRider]

I drilled two small holes in the plate where the trailer harness socket is. Works great, I even put the AirBag Info sticker on it, makes it look like a factory install.

[Modified]

I mounted both Schroeder Valves through the frame, behind the driverside rear wheel, on my 2002 X-cab LB 2500HD. My frame had four extra holes, which appears to be an extra spring mount, or maybe mounts for the overload springs on a 3500. The frame here is double wall. I installed, I believe, a #10 washers and nuts on both sides of frame, with the two Schroeders about four inches apart, going through these existing holes.
I made a test hose, which consists of two six-inch long Schroeder air chucks, connected together with about 12 inches of hose, with a tee and a pressure gauge. I manually fill one air bag with a hand pump to more than double the desired pressure, and then install my test hose to both Schroeders. This equalizes both bags, with the pressure gauge indicating the equalized pressure. Now I can slowly bleed excess air until I reach desired pressure.
I mounted the Schroeders in the wheel well, WHERE NO HOLES NEEDED TO BE DRILLED. I thought this would be easier to fill here, compared to having to bend under my 5ver trailer, and manually pumping, if the fittings were mounted in the rear.

[20050528|8|000731|000000|205.188.117.71]

Are you talking about an actual lift, or a helper system for towing? I am looking to put a lift on a truck, and it uses a 4

[ochster]

My application, was to utilize the "air lift" air bags, inplace of overload springs. Just to keep the rear of the truck from squating, when the gooseneck of the trailer is putting weight on the truck.

[Jack's Dmax]

I have the Air lift's and I really like the on board control of the air bags. The control is well worth the extra cost.

Jack

[sonofagun]

ochster,

You can upgrade to a pump and in-cab guage later. I would encourage you to consider that. The manual fill lines stay in place and work if the pump fails.

The in-cab guage is very helpful in adjusting load and ride characteristics over time and make it much easier (therefore you'll do it more).

Bob

[ochster]

It's sort of a "band aid" fix, for the short term. I screwed up and listen to a salesman when deciding on my towing needs. Now I have a perfect truck with less than 3500 miles, I need to sell. I will be recieving a trailer soon that, I should have baught a duallie to pull. I'm hoping I can find someone to adopt my current truck, so I can get what I safely should have the first time around. I can't justify the whooping from the wife or the dealer.

[chipper]

ochster,
You shouldn't have any problem pulling that 30 footer with air bags on your P/U. I have over 15,000 miles of towing on my 2001 with airbags that I run 75lbs in & it pulls my 32 5er like a dream.

[DieselDixon]

Originally posted by ochster:
It's sort of a "band aid" fix, for the short term. I screwed up and listen to a salesman when deciding on my towing needs. Now I have a perfect truck with less than 3500 miles, I need to sell. I will be recieving a trailer soon that, I should have baught a duallie to pull. I'm hoping I can find someone to adopt my current truck, so I can get what I safely should have the first time around. I can't justify the whooping from the wife or the dealer. Okay, who said you can't pull a 30' 5th'r with that truck? I plan on pulling a 39' 5th'r toy hauler with a CC/LB and have a friend pulling a 40' right now with no problems and many others pulling 30+ without a dually.

[ochster]

Thank you! gentlemen for your insight.

Let me pose my situation, and see if you still feel confident in my situation.

The trailer is being built with the axle box, being moved rearward ( a few inches), to facilitate a 100 gallon water tank. The tank is to be located directly over, and in front of the axles. My concern is, the manufacturer is saying the gooseneck weight with the trailer fully loaded, may be near 3800lbs. I also wanted to be able to install a transfer flow tank in the bed. I'm definatley getting conflicting views, and unfortunately do not have the trailer yet, to weigh.

I upgraded the tires to Michelins LTX 245's, not having any faith in the oems. If I felt this would suffice, I would install 265's, and the airbags's.

If it is not blatant, I'm a little new to big trailers and simply don't wan't a white nuckle disaster on my hands.

I would graciously read any personal experiences with such a set-up.

[chipper]

ochster,
Now it sounds like you have moved up to dually country or at least 12 plys & air bags on your present setup.

[gardnerteam]

Towing experience and weight. This summer my 2002 CC D/A single rear wheel longbox with Weld 16X8 Outback wheels with 305/70/16 Nitto Load range E grossed 33,000 lbs in a pull from San Diego to Bend Oregon pulling a 24' triple axle Pace enclosed trailer. Weights were recorded on the scale at Santa Nella. truck front axle weight was 5500, single wheel rear axle was a whopping 9500, triple axle trailer was 18000 (it max rating). Truck tires were aired to 70 lbs. No problems of any kind for this approx 1100 mile tow. I normally do not go over 29,000 lbs, and usually tow at 25,000 to 27,000 lbs, but this time I had the truck loaded down with tile as well. Drove through LA at 3 in the morning to avoid traffic and stopping. Braking was good, but would have hated to make a panic stop. As to tires and wheels, I am now going to 245/70/19.5 to get a 20,000 lb tire rating for the truck. If you only tow, dooleys are great. I have over a half million miles in dooleys towing up and down the west coast and back east towning 43' enclosed race trailer. I HATE dooleys on ice, in snow, in heavy rain, on rough roads, on cement roads with bad seams, and off road. Thus I gave up my dooleys several years ago and drive single rear wheel. The truck is tough enough, but it needs a stronger tire and wheel such as the 19.5.

[ochster]

Let me run this by some members...

I will lose approx. 6-8k if I switch rigs, wether sold or traded it appears. So I'm trying to rationalize an upgrade in wheels and tires, to maybe some rickmans, and Michelins. Seems this would take nearly $3500.

My trailer weight loaded will not exceed 14,000lbs. My truck is a 4x2.

A. Does this sound logical?
B. Does it sound safe?

Thanks for any insight.

[gardnerteam]

Ricksons quote to me on 6.75 polished aluminum classics and 245 Continentals, including balancing and shipping to the west coast was $2,750.83. If your tongue weight does not exceed the limits of the vehicle's hitch, and you do not overload your truck, a set of 265X16 LOAD RANGE E should easily do the trick a lot cheaper. The 19.5 should be a lot more stable and wear 3 times as well. It's your $. For my $ after going through almost 6 sets of tires in 53,000 miles, I'm going 19.5. I want the narrower tire, the stiffer sidewall, and the longer tire mileage wear.

[Rockin]

I am a little new to heavy towing too. From everything I've read, the big concern is legality. Although I have not experience to back it, people have said towing over your GVWR (probably first to go, especially with the heavy pin weight) puts you at risk of not being covered by insurance. I too am curious how big of a concern this really is though.

For me, I will probably not be too worried about it because I think if insurance wants to screw you, they just will, kind of like cops can write you a ticket for anything. My insurance guy is a horse trainer and tows all the time, I think he understands the concerns too.

[DieselDixon]

Originally posted by Rockin:
I am a little new to heavy towing too. From everything I've read, the big concern is legality. Although I have not experience to back it, people have said towing over your GVWR (probably first to go, especially with the heavy pin weight) puts you at risk of not being covered by insurance. I too am curious how big of a concern this really is though.

Yeah, but if you are worried about something like this, going with the dually is not going to help you out at all. The max towing on any of these trucks is about 15,500 for a fifth wheel. If you are going to go over that and don't feel safe you will have to step up to the Top Kick. They offer the same motor/trans but with increased towing capabilities.

[jtegland]

ochster,

I feel your pain. Shortly after having the hitch installed in my, 03 Chevy 2500HD CC/SWB/2WD, I loaded up the wife and took off from Jacksonville to the local Sundowner dealer in Ocala. I had been drooling over that Sundowner 8010, 3 horse and was all set to hook it up and drag it back to Jacksonville.

Being the Nit-Noid type of Cowboy I am though I told the dealer I wanted to take the trailer and drive it across the scales at the closest truck stop. I had called Sundowner and the supposed engineer I spoke with on the phone assured me that the 8010 had a tongue weight of about 1800 lbs. ,of course they had no documents indicating that on their website or anything they could email me so I decided the best plan was just to hook it up and weigh it. The darn thing just looked too nose heavy to have that little a tongue weight.

On the way to the dealer I stopped at the truck stop and topped off my fuel tank and weighed the truck empty. This is where I found my first bit of disappointing news. The truck with a tank of fuel, and my soon to be X-wife sitting in it weighed 6740 lbs. Through in my 230 lbs. of lard butt and Cowboy boots and the darn thing weighs 6970 lbs. So much for that fantasy 3000 lbs. Kingpin weight limit. To stay under the 9200 lbs GVWR I'm now stuck with a total of 2030 lbs. (9200 - 6970) of chips, sandwiches, sodas, and tongue weigh I can through in the truck.

Anyway, off to the dealer I go and hookup that Beautiful Sundowner 8010 LQ and it looks great. The truck is sitting nice and level. It doesn't looked crushed or overload. The dealer assures me my truck would have no problems pulling that trailer and in fact the guy who delivered it brought it in with the same truck. But being how he was not exactly an uninterested party to the sale I was dead set on weighing it anyway so off to the scales we go.

On the way to the scales I was really pleased at how little extra effort it took the truck to pull the trailer and how well the the hole package handled. My hopes are starting to rise on the way there. It's worth noting that at this point the trailer had no spare tire hanging off the front, no propane in the tanks, no 100 gal of water at 7.5 lbs a gal, no food and beer in the fridge, no dishes, clothes, tack, tools, and no 3000lbs of hay burners in it either. The point being, loaded up this trailer is going to be a lot more nose heavy than it is now.

So what did I find when I got it on the scales, front and rear axle total was 9680 lbs. subtract the 6740 lbs. truck weight and the tongue weight on the empty trailer is 2940 lbs. Through my 230 lbs. back in and and the unloaded trailer has the truck's GVW at 9910 lbs., 710 lbs. over the GVWR.

Back to dealer I go. Once there he is kind enough to assure me that in spite of exceeding the vehicle limitation I wouldn't have any trouble pulling that trailer with my truck and that people do it every day. I say thanks, but no thanks. Would the truck have pulled it? Yes. Was it looking smashed? No. Are there people out there hauling heavier loads? Yes. You see trucks hauling loads with their rear ends crushed flat every day. I also know people who smoke 4 packs of cigarettes a day too and I have know interest in doing that either.

As far as insurance goes I wasn't worried about it not paying off if I got in a wreck. I was worried about my undeserving children collecting a pile of money from my life insurance or the mother and 3 kids in a Honda I plowed into while driving a rig I know is overloaded. Not anything I need weighing on my conscience when I'm trying to get to sleep at night.

I'd be willing to bet a barley soda that this rig loaded would even exceed the 3500 lbs. kingpin limit on the 3500's.

John

[ochster]

jtegland...I do see your point!, and agree with your particular set-up.

My trailer, and purpose is a little different. First let me say, Sundowner builds one kind of trailer, the best! for people who can discern the differences, and are willing to pay for the value it offers, they are sweet.

Sundowner has built me a custom designed 8008 Sierra LQ 30' trailer. This trailer was designed to haul four moto-x bikes (proffesional Supercross team), instead of three horses. From the slant wall back, there is Moduline cabinets, and a typical workbench arangement. The four bikes will diagnally load. So in my case, the loaded weight is both less, and fixed. The truck and trailer will be drove by a single individual, and be used a pit trailer, at the events. I have also decided to forgo a auxilliary fuel tank in the truck bed.

After looking at many of the "weekender" type garage style trailers, several things became apparent. First, is build quality and materials used, they are not made with much in mind. Second, was the actual design/engineering, wich would effect everything from how it towed, to wether it would have any usefull (marketable) life, in five years. Thinking that the difference between the two distinctly different build formulas, would literally be thousands of dollars, you may be able to make a case for the lesser quality brands. But reality is, the high end lines of the everyday brands, is within 5-7k of owning a Sundowner. With an average retail of 30k-40k, I don't feel it excessive. If the average guy actually went and seen the differences in the build materials, or walked through both, it is blatantly obvious.

A gentlemen named Brick Wellman at Sky Ranch Trailers in Tukwilla, WA. had this trailer custom engineered, with many more accesories for my needs. If someone was interested in photo's or spec's, you may be able to convince him to send you some. I do not have any affiliation with the sales of these trailers, but feel it is some worth while information, for someone in this market.

I will be upgrading the tow rig shortly. I will be waiting for the new SRW one ton.

[ 11-01-2003, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: ochster ]

[jtegland]

I agree Sundowner makes the best trailer! And I wanted one bad enough that after having rejected the 8010 as being too much tongue weight for my truck, I hooked up an 8008 and took it and weighed it. It did have the spare tire on it and I'm not sure if its propane and water tanks were full, but it weighed out at 8700 lbs with a tongue weight of 2840 lbs. Which is going to make it tough to load on the back of a 2500 HD and stay under the 9200 lbs. GVWR.