View Full Version : New PSD out pulls Dmax
deerhunter7
10-07-2002, 17:15
Just read the article at pickuptruck.com. They did
a pull with 12,000 lb. trailer. The Ford was a little faster every run . The Diesel is also 2004
emissions compliant. The testers like the tranny better than the Alli. These were stock engines.
The testers did not ax GM .Long article but GM has
competion again. Hope they get to work.. :eek:
Well, I would hope they built a better engine /tranny combo to beat the Duramax......If not what a waste of 5 years it would be....I'm a little disappointed in the Allison performance......To raise the stakes on HP and Tq wars is a simple task...Question is will the Allison take it???
Well, that won't be out running us as Ford has limited them to 98 MPH.......
We'll just have to wait and see how they adapted to the real world....In addition will they be able to raise the stakes in the after market or hit the snags as we have.....
MAC
[ 10-07-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
Imitation is the highest form of flattery...
But anyway, when people do these tests, shouldn't they use at least two trucks of each brand & average the results, instead of just one truck?
I'm not saying that the Dmax would have won, it's just everytime I read one of these things, they only have one truck.
IndigoDually
10-07-2002, 18:44
The part of the article that I liked was the Silverado ad on the right side of all of the 6 pages.
John
Alli-max
10-07-2002, 18:57
Yea, peak HP and Torque is impressive... Did you look at the TQ Curves though?? Somebody is drawing a picture of the Rocky Mountains!!
PSD Curves: http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2003/ford/superduty/first_drive/page2.html
Duramax Curves: http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/duramax/apps/images/dmax_curve.jpg
Not knocking it down AT ALL. Impressive numbers from Ford. It peaks and falls pretty quickly though.
hdmax(mike)
10-07-2002, 19:08
Page 5 near the bottom of the page it states that the Ford Power Stroke is 33% or more faster then the Chevy Duramax truck. There is no way in this world it would out run the Chevy that easy.
Here is the quote
[ The Chevrolet should have weighed less and it even had smaller tires. Every advantage went to the Chevrolet including a 1 mile lead on a 10 mile grade. The Super Duty reeled in the Duramax equipped Chevrolet in less than 3 miles and passed with ease. We were so surprised and thought that the driver did not know we were trying to catch him so we slowed down to 45 MPH and let the Chevrolet catch up. The driver we found out later was on the pedal all the way up the hill ]
NutNbutGMC
10-07-2002, 19:18
^.. And to think a mini-van can out speed the both of them... Go figure.
Alli-max
10-07-2002, 19:28
You catch everything HD Mike!!!
Interesting math.... For arguments sake here is the question. In a 3 mile stretch, and the Duramax was traveling at 50 mph with a 1 mile lead, how fast would the PSd need to be traveling to catch Dmax?
Alli-max
10-07-2002, 19:36
75 miles per hour?? Is that the correct math here? Also, it said LESS than 3 miles, so it would actually be faster. Hard to imagine all things were equal with HP and TQ being so close. Were they looking for some ad space? ;)
kind of odd truck in photos is a 3500 cc,but article says the chevy was a cc single wheel short bed,do these guys even know what kind of the truck they drove, it could have been a ferrari 360 spyder
Okay I believe that the new 6.0 will out perform the Dmax but this article has some SERIOUS credibility issues!!!
Digitally controlled valves?
They say the Chevy is an SRW but the pics clearly show a Dually?
Lets see about the caught in three miles. The chevy is one mile ahead and probably moving at 60mph. Lets assume thats it and he cannot accelerate any more. In two minutes he will be three miles down the road. That means the Ford left the gate at 90mph with no time for acceleration and maintained that speed for two minutes to catch the chevy. If you figure in acceleration time he probably had to be running closer to 110mph to catch the Chevrolet.
Blacktruck-1
10-07-2002, 20:37
Sorry fellas--Had a few cold ones last night and stuck this in the wrong thread! :rolleyes:
[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: Blacktruck-1 ]</p>
Maybe they (www.pickuptruck.com)should be invited to this event. No bias just the facts.
http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/pulloff3.htm
[ 10-07-2002: Message edited by: tjc ]</p>
Well guys, you knew it was going to happen to us just like it happened to the Ford and Dodge guys. The question is, who really cares, especially since we have the Juice? I think the 90 HP level on the Juiced DMax is about all the power we can reliably get from any of the pick-up truck diesels out there. That gives us what--680ish ft lbs and 330ish HP. More importantly, the Juice gives us 200 HP at 2000 RPM. I just don't see any inexpensive/durable mods for any of these engines improving much on that. At least not until another break through in durable diesel engine/tranny technology becomes affordable.
Blaine
Maverick
10-07-2002, 21:21
Hey More Power.....whats your take on this BS? Nothing can beat a Duramax......right? :confused:
Kansas Kid
10-07-2002, 22:08
I don't think the torque curve really looks all that bad. I mean it has 520ft-lbs for longer then the Dmax does (looks like about 1600rpm to 3400rpm), but it just goes a heck of a lot higher the the Dmax in between those rpm. Its not perfectly flat by any means, but it is making some pretty good torque numbers for a long time.
With that said, some of you guys sound like the Ford/Dodge guys did when the Dmax was first introduced. smile.gif There was no way that aluminum headed Isuzu could outperform the PSD by such a large margin. But I think we know better then that now.
I am having a hard time seeing the PSD catching the Dmax that quickly, but I have no doubt it caught the Dmax and went right on by it. Heck, the article says the Ford was running 78mph by the time in caught the Dodge. :eek: Guess we will find out for sure when they hit the streets.
David Utz
10-07-2002, 22:10
I see that the gross combined weight is still rated 2000 lbs less than the GM (20,000 vs. 22,000). So, with all of these improvements, It still can't pull as heavy a load? Must be a new engine and trany put in the same old truck?
You got to love the competition!
01F350SRW
10-07-2002, 22:27
Heres my view on this, we are now in the shoes that we're filled with the Ford/Dodge boys and girls for the past two years. Fords got it once again, Don't Argue the Point, thats what they did last year(s). Ford has it, FOR NOW.
But thats just it, FOR NOW, GM still had the one and probably the most important advantage, because theoredically these two diesels are almost identical, and in 04 they almost will be because the DMAX will get the Variable Turbo, is DISPLACEMENT. Two diesels, same design, same idea, the bigger will always win here fellas. Expect the PSD to be upgraded (mods)to some respectable numbers, but in the future expect the DMAX to be upgraded (mods)to some remarkable numbers.
F350
SoCalDMAX
10-07-2002, 22:53
I agree with 01F350SRW, Ford's got a little more hp, a little more torque for now. The crown gets passed around every year. Although I also don't see how an extra 5hp and 40ft-lbs could equate to passing the Dmax so quickly, keep in mind this article was about an event that Ford sponsored. Ford wouldn't have commissioned it if they weren't sure of the outcome.
I expect to see GM tweak the ECM for some more power (very easily done, as you've seen already), add the VGT turbo which will improve throttle response, driveability, power and economy. And someday they'll turn on that 6th gear that's already hidden in there.
So if I were willing to buy a VGT turbo, upgrade my tranny for the 6th gear (as well as better power handling) and reprogram the ECM and TCM for a little more power and firmer shifts, there would be very few trucks that would keep up.
Just remember, the Dmax still has very high performance parts in the bottom end. I'm not sure of the power handling capability of the 6.0 PSDs powdered metal rods yet. They might be strong, maybe not. If I were going to design a strong bottom end, I'd ask for a forged, nitrided crank and forged/fracture split rods. So we could easily have a 400hp, 800ft-lb engine with VGT and a 6speed Allison. Imagine the economy you'd get unloaded cruising in 6th gear at 65mph!
Too bad we couldn't have slipped John Kennedy in there as the 2500HD "stocker." There would have been some red-faced Ford execs for sure... :D LOL
I have nothing against Fords, PSDs or their owners. I like them, but my truck suits me better, as theirs suits them better. To each their own, or else we'd all be after somebody's Grandma. ;) :eek:
Regards, Steve
MNBowTie
10-07-2002, 23:57
Boo!,
That's what the story teller disserves at pickuptruck.com . I'm sure glad I'm not a member over there. That is is one the worst articles I have ever read. Of course, the new G2 should better and so should their new tranny. The bias was over spilling, especially with the colors and the description of the trucks not matching. Boo! on Pickuptruck.com
Hey Fellas,
I think that some of you may want to read the article, again. It does not say that the Ford slammed the D-Max in any way, just bested it. They used different trucks for the "pull" and the dragstrip. And, the Chevy was given a "one minute" head start not a mile. I can see a the varible vein turbo out pulling/excellrating a "standard" turbo. Yes, the Ford has done this. The numbers are better on the Ford. The Ford reaches 500 lbs @ 1,500 RPM and holds it to 3,200 RPM. I think that is about 1,700 RPM in the "Power Zone" of pulling. Our trucks reach 500 lbs of twist @ 1,800 RPM and drop off at 3,000 RPM. That means that we only have 1,200 RPM to use "in the gears" for pulling. I would guess that the turbo has more to do with it than anything. I am not real hip on "computer acutated" valves. Heck, I've got enough to worry about! :eek:
Now I must state that I do have a D-Max. However, it is for sale :( I must sell it :( My 03 Max :D is on it's way :D -- End of OCT....maybe? probably first week of September :rolleyes:
Dmax son
10-08-2002, 03:30
I was reading over at the ford diesel site that if you do anything to the ford it will void the warranty, I can kinda see why. With computer controlled valves and the varible vane turbo, would pretty pricey to replace if they had problems with them.
Bryan
It doesn't have computer controlled valves.
GM will void your warranty also as well as Dodge.
I'd like to see some real numbers, not statements like " won by a noticable amount". What is a noticeable amount?
I expected an independent, professionally tested and documented comparison from PUTC since it is not a specifically branded site, not an article with a bunch of wahoo's in it and seat of the pants comments. Where are the documented numbers from the tests like TDP provides.
This was a Ford sponsored event. In other words, the entire thing was setup by Ford. Not independent.
hdmax(mike)
10-08-2002, 03:51
Burner,
Please re-read the part that I copied and pasted. I did not write that, those are the words of the article writer. ONE MILE! not ONE MINUTE! What they were saying is if the Ford had the smaller tires, and the Chevy had more weight. The Ford would have blowin it out of the water.
SoCalDMAX,
And it does not matter one bit about the 6th speed when it comes to pulling grades or towing large loads. At .61.1 ratio the truck would not stay there very long on any hill while pulling 12,000#.
I can concede to the Ford having more power and being faster. That is not a problem. If it were, I would have waited to buy a truck. The problem I have is the way they lied about the differents. 10% more power don`t mean 35% faster while pulling near max GCVWR.
Remember the Ford is heavier then the Chevy. The Ford had a GCVW or more then 19,000#.
FirstDiesel
10-08-2002, 04:20
hdmax
I think the 6th gear would help a lot in pulling. With a 6th gear providing more overdrive GM could put 4.10's in the truck and still get the same cruising rpm and mpg and offer more pull on the bottom end.
We all knew the new PSD was going to have enough to overtake the competition. I don't like the way the article was written.
It was definately written to attract attention, not just the fact that the Ford was superior in power but to also generate traffic through controversy.
Notice it was introduced in the "War Room". I guess I shouldn't complain...... I like the brand wars.
Ford has layed the cards on the table. Let's see what GM and Dodge will do.
I'm very skeptical of the Torqshift transmission. Ford is not known to design a great transmission. The Allison was designed with a ton of knowledge base at Allison's disposal.
SoCalDMAX
10-08-2002, 05:26
Mike,
I mentioned the 6th gear only in reference to mpg while empty fwy cruising. I wouldn't expect to ever tow in that high of a gear.
Regards, Steve
Dmax son
10-08-2002, 05:38
They said the new ford is 2004 emissions compliant. Is the new dodge ho engine emission compliant? or the Duramax? I can see if the duramax isn't, but if the dodge isn't I don't see why they wasted the time and or money to make the new fuel system work and then have to do everything all over again in a year. If the dodge doesn't meet the 2004 emissions would it be the end of the 5.9l, or is there more they can do to make it emissions compliant?
Is the ford fuel system the same as the duramax??
Bryan
Alli-max
10-08-2002, 06:53
The HO engine that comes with the 6 speed is not in California per PUTC.
I believe Cummins is still working on the emissions issues. It may simply be a timing thing with their certification.
The Dmax will be on target for 2004 emissions with the addition of the variable turbo, cooled EGR and a cat. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
The Powerstroke, old and new, does not have a similar injection system. They use hydraulically actuated injectors that use a second, high pressure oil pump, that uses engine oil, to run the injectors.
The new Cummins does use the same basic system as the Duramax.
01_Duramax_Dually
10-08-2002, 08:06
My Fellow GM Loyals,
Should this surprise any of us??
We all knew Ford and Dodge would step up to the plate, as they should.
The article from an engineering standpoint was more fiction then fact but nevertheless it ran well and with posted numbers has a few on the DMAX stock version to stock version. But does this really matter? Can any of us feel a couple more HP and a few more ft lbs tq while driving....I doubt it.
The bottomline here( at least for me) is truck reliability, service after purchase and comfort.
If the truck runs hard, does what you need it to do and lasts, then that is great. If the service department comes to the plate and takes care of you when something arises, even better and if you can enjoy the ride and it is comfortable then you got a GREAT vehicle...
Find your comfort zone.... smile.gif enjoy, do not get caught up in the hype. The 2 competitors trucks have no sample size out there yet to see if they work well, just some biased preliminary numbers for everybody to go Ewwwwwwe and Ahhhhhh...Kind of like Fireworks.... :D :D :D
Carry on....
Digital valves. If this statement is true in the article they are probably refering to the same technology used in Navistar's camless engine project but in the 6.0's case for the fuel injectors. I've actually been to this company and seen some off this stuff.
Husker Fan
10-08-2002, 08:43
I
I guess nobody noticed the error on the HP side of the Ford power graph? Its 50 HP off. This whole article is just full little stuff like that.
I just feel that GM knew that Ford would be besting the D/A #'s. Why didn't GM just make the '03's a tad more powerfull? All you Juice guys have done it, and tow heavy in Level 1 or 2. I hope GM doesn't "slip" back into the back seat of diesel performance.....AGAIN!
As the article sayes: "And diesel truck buyers should love this competition, it brings out the best from everyone involved". :cool: :cool:
No question the new PSD has the current best HP/Torque ratings but it is also a new unproven product as is the TorqShift Transmission. Give them a year to sort out the bugs, by which time you can be sure the General will have given the D/Max more power to match or exceed the PSD. :D
More Power
10-08-2002, 11:38
Simmer down guys.... The Ford having more power is all part of the plan.....
Commenting on whether the PUTC review is accurate or inaccurate is just speculation. But, I doubt they would intentionally report bogus info.
We already have a plan to run an '03 PSD and '03 Dodge HO against an '03 GMC sometime after about November 15th. We'll run them all on the same hill we've used for all of the Pull-Off's using a 10K trailer.
Here's what I expect will happen.... The Ford will place first, the GMC second and Dodge third. All will be close.
We heard more than a year ago that GM was planning 340 hp for the 2004 model year. Why didn't GM do it for the '03 model year? Simple - let Ford rise above the current performance level set by the Duramax, then take that title away from them in the next model year. It's all about marketing, drama and generating a buzz...... (like it's doing here)
MP
[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: More Power ]</p>
Jim,
I don't think any of us doubt the Ford is on top. What kinda got me is PUTC is an all-brand site. It read like it was pro-Ford when I thought they should have been a bit more neutral in their comments.
This site is a little different being a brand based site. I would expect pro-GM reporting.
Actually, the power levels we are getting in these trucks (all brands)stock is nothing short of amazing considering what the reputation for performance was for diesels as little as five years ago.
This is too much fun! :D :D
DieselDennis
10-08-2002, 12:54
Easy guys. These magazine articles are all totally bogus, unless your brand truck wins the "test event." I never believe what these people say. It's usually Car & Driver writers that irritate me the most. I know these were "supposedly" truck people. But come on. They test HD trucks and Mercedes SUVs. They really aren't qualified to make a statement.
More Power
10-08-2002, 14:11
Determining towing power for the new HD diesel trucks is something most magazines and automotive people don't have a clue about.
I've been convinced from since 1999 that the best way to determine towing performance is to run a 6% grade from a dead stop with a 10K trailer, then record both top speed and elapsed time in a measured mile.
This allows the best "powertrain" to win, not necessarily the most powerful engine. Pulling grades in a Pull-Off will test every aspect of the truck, from the cooling system to the rear tires, and everything in between.
I read in the latest Truck Trend magazine where they built a special trailer with water ballast tanks, to use for their towing tests. The trailer can be loaded to 10-12K for HD testing. I suspect they'll begin testing in ways that appear familiar to us. It just makes the most sense.
MP
More Power:
I'm much interested in your upcoming tests, but the test should also include giving the DMax a one minute (or a mile for that matter) head start, just to test the results we're now reading about.
In any case, if anyone who buys any car or truck and thinks he will be king of the hill forever needs help. More HP and Torque is only good for bragging rights in a given model year or two. My '01 can still probably outpull most of the pickups (stock)towing 10,000# on the interstate, and I'm happy with that. That's more than could ever be said for earlier GM diesels. At least we are in the ball game now, and as the Juice users have proven, Duramax has a heck of a lot of unused power and torque that will undoubtedly be exploited by GM in future.
The horsepower wars are about to get real interesting, but don't count the Duramax out just yet.
[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: Redhawk ]
[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: Redhawk ]</p>
Diesel Brad
10-08-2002, 16:35
Anytime an automaker sponsors a test there is always some doubt as to whether or not it was conducted fairly. On the other hand, the same holds true when a private test is conducted. My point is that no matter how fair or unbiased a test is, it can never be completely "ideal" or "perfect." The fact of the matter remains that someone has to lose, and I don't know anyone who likes to lose.
From experience, I can tell you that the PUTC staffers would not intentionally report false information about the products they test. Their experience was based on a test that Ford organized. I believe they (PUTC) are currently in the process of organizing their own (independent) test.
Am I surprised that Ford was the winner of the comparison test? Certainly not. Ford would be foolish to send a product to market that didn't outperform the competition. Will the independent tests confirm the results of the Ford test? I guess we'll just have to be patient and wait for more testing to be done.
PUTC's comments about the PowerTorq transmission may prompt GM engineers to spend more time refining the Allison's behavior. Dodge may be prompted to build an automatic that can handle the full grunt of the H.O. ISB. Remember, competition almost always yields better products for the consumer. Let the games begin!
[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: Diesel Brad ]</p>
Guys,
Relax. Just add juice, intake, and exhaust, and run away from most of them..............
Blaine
hdmax(mike)
10-08-2002, 16:42
These horse power/torque numbers will not go up for ever. How many remember the gas wars of the late 70`s early 80`s?
My Brother had a 77 Ford 4x4 high boy with 410 gears, 4 speed manual, 351 winsor (I think it was a winsor) The truck produced about 165 HP.
I had a 84 Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4 with the largest engine that GM offered in a 1/2 ton. the big 305 V-8 with something like 135 HP, 4 speed automatic and 2.73:1 gears.
A real dog once I put 35" BF Goodrich muds on it. would not stay in 4th gear unless I was going down hill. :D Those days may never come back, But the numbers will go the other way one day. You know how the tree huggers get their way.
Real Testing always begins in the hands of the consumer......The combinations of variable driving conditions,attitudes,driving styles, are never duplicated....All the hype IS controlled testing with a predetermined out come......I can't wait myself to see them roll into a dealer near me in hopes of some young in experienced salesmen that I can FOOL into allowing ME, yes ME, do an OUT of CONTROL test !!!!!!!!!!
Chevy hyped the every living $hit out of there D/A as the best thing since an OIL burner was hooked up to an auto and put into a truck.....They,We, are still trying to live it down at every problem that surfaces....As it didn't matter to me I would of bought one regard less I'm pro GM....Ford should sell it the old fashion way, and learn the over selling breeds negativity.....Which turns to rumors to loss in sales.......
One thing I will concede right up front, they have a nicer looking nose......Still thinking the Chevy 03'S are UGLY .........Lets get these babies out on the asphalt jungle and then we will see !!!!!!!
MAC :D :D
[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
hdmax(mike)
10-08-2002, 17:47
What are the chances of the variable turbo working with the 02`s? and 01`s. That could be a very nice upgrade in a year or two :D By then it will be time to look for more power ;)
And if it works, I wonder the cost :(
The new PSD may be a very good engine, and the TorqShift may be a very good transmission, but that article at pickuptruck.com was a farce.
The writer clearly states that they gave a D/A a one mile head start, and that the Ford had a speed of 78MPH after two miles, and the Dodge was managing about 60MPH. The D/A was faster than the Dodge so the D/A had to be doing somewhere above 60MPH and below 78MPH.
Without going into all the math it is IMPOSSIBLE for the Ford to have caught a D/A with a one mile head start in only three miles with a terminal speed of 78MPH. It just can't happen.
I don't doubt that the Ford caught the Dodge and Chevy, and probably outpaced both at the track, but why not give REAL numbers instead of the BS that was written?
hdmax(mike)
10-09-2002, 03:54
Also so if you read it again you will see. That the Dodge left the starting line before the Chevy and went just a half mile before the Chevy was a half mile in front of the Dodge. So what it looks like to me is, The Chevy is more then twice as fast as the Dodge, and the Ford is twice as fast as the Chevy. How can this be?
CREATIVE WRITING !!!!!WITCHCRAFT !!!!!!!!!! NOS& PROPANE !!!!!!!! DREAMING !!!!!! JET POWER !!!!!!! LAST BUT NOT LEAST ====>GUTTER PIPE RAM AIR WITH LEAF BLOWER ATTACHED !!!!!!!!!
MAC :D tongue.gif :D
[ 10-09-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
Husker Fan
10-09-2002, 08:09
I
01_Duramax_Dually
10-09-2002, 09:00
Mac,
I truly enjoy reading your posts..... :D :D
Straight, to the point, and I agree. Let me drive it like I drive everything I have. My accelerator peddle only knows 2 positions, off or pushed against the floor board. If someone wants an unbiased test. Give me those 3 trucks. We will take them to the desert with my 11K trailer. We will start at the bottom of the 17 mile 6-7% grade pass between Barstow and Baker and we will see who's truck runs the number. We will set the air conditioning on high and do this run at 1-3 PM when the temp soars to about 110.
I honestly do not really care who wins...This why I am the perfect driver. I am PRO GM and the others could make 25% more power and I would not buy it. But I will drive them all the same way so there is no doubt. We can set a up a datalogger and watch TPS % so you know I will WOOD those things...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The '03 Chev is still UGLY in my opinion. I actually kind of like the Dodge front on their 3500.
Line'em up boys
Carry On..... :D
01_Duramax_Dually, now that's a good test hill! I've driven it a couple times and totally forgot till your post.
MountainMax
10-09-2002, 10:41
One thing to consider: Ford may have pushed the engine closer to it's power limit with it's programing so they can launch the vehicle with higher output ratings. We all know that the Dmax has untapped power. For example: Say the Dmax is running at 60% of attainable power in the stock form. By reprogramming the ECM much more power can be developed and claimed. Ford on the other hand may already be pushing the engine to the 70-80% or more level. My point is that although the new Ford engine claims higher output, how much power is left in reserve. We may ultimately have the more powerful engine its just at the time of release Chevy could introduce it at 300/520 and be way above the curve. How much higher can their fuel system pressures be pushed. In a year or two when the after market people find they can't get much more out of the 6 liters, we may still be smoking them on Juice or other products that tap into the reserve. I'm just amazed how Ford had to literally copy (5 speed/gear ratios/tow haul/32 valves/rail injection/grade braking, etc) to compete. The beauty is that our truck made it happen. Imagine what we'll be driving in 10 years.Ain't capitalism and competetion wonderful.
Haven't read the report yet-- do they give a ball park price for this new Ford? I'm guessin -- there goes the price of every new diesel-- up thru the roof! Pretty soon ole Gale Banks himself won't be able to buy one so he can bomb it and make it affordable for the average gearhead.
Of course, when I picture some of you guys in my head-- AVERAGE GOES RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW! :D :D
zip
Kansas Kid
10-09-2002, 12:54
I wouldn't be too worried about the 6.0 being unable to compete power wise. (which is a good thing) It has been available in International medium duty trucks for over a year with torque ratings a good bit higher then Ford introduced it at. I believe it is 620ft-lbs at 1400rpm at its highest rating. Something tells me the Ford guys are going to have a pretty good base for aftermarket performance just like the Dmax is. Heck, who is to say it won't make more power then the Dmax can? It is all just speculation at this point, but evidently it can handle 620ft-lbs fairly easily.
btw, the injection system on this little Navistar is far from a copy of the Bosch common rail system the Dmax and Cummins use. Just an upgrade of the HEUI system used on the current PSD.
mark45678
10-09-2002, 18:16
here's my .02 at this time we are 2 years a head of ford in the after market world.....did any of you guys make great power with add on stuff in 2001? electronic (NO) propane (yes)..... hope they fixed there trans to cope with the war that just started!!!! :D I for one dont care what they make GM#1
A lot of After market guys key in to the Dodge Cummins.....
See =>http://www.dieseldynamics.com/...They all ready are putting down over 1000 foot pounds of torque in the new QUIET 03.......Since we are running Bosch systems when will we see "REAL" injector upgrades????Wonder how they are acheiving them numbers ????Not a single mod I'm sure....Injectors?NOS?Propane?Cam?Exhaust?Turbo?Al l of above?
That's it, I'm dropping my tranny and sending to ATS ......I'm done pussy footing around......Bring on the gas !!!!!!!! Some for me,some for the motor..... tongue.gif
MAC :D
[ 10-09-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
George Gozelski
10-09-2002, 21:03
I'm sorry people, but I've got to call bull**** on that Ford test. I can live with the Ford winning, but not at those outlandish claims! I mean, c'mon now, slowing down to let the Duramax catch up? All of this with a smaller 6.0 liter strokin for all it's worth motor? I think not!
Bart Timothy
10-10-2002, 00:17
This reminds me of the "pull off movie" and the towing tests done by GM, and publicized, before and just after the D/A was introduced. Those events, too, were rigged. Do you really expect anything different from Ford?
[ 10-10-2002: Message edited by: Bart Timothy ]</p>
Bart
Come'on !!!!!!!
You got to believe MAN !!!!!!! You got to believe !!!!! tongue.gif
Pay backs a BIT*H ........... :eek:
MAC :D
R Waller
10-10-2002, 06:08
yep, paybacks a bitch :D
be afraid, be very, very, afraid ;) ;) tongue.gif
calm down guys, think back three years, to before your D/A's came out. your sounding like a bunch of dodge guys. Just think how good everything is fix'n to get ? next year, your drivetrain is just going to get a little better. then the ford and dodge will get better, then yours will get a little better, and on, and on....
mackey_62
10-10-2002, 06:21
Allright, I can't resist this topic anymore.......
Time for a tried and proven..... true test.... good old-fashioned..... redneck..... backroad..... beer and fuel guzzling...... chicks cheering..... tow straps ..... broken chains, driveshafts, egos etc.....
NO MORE BULLS**T !!!!!!!!!!
HOOK 'EM UP BOYS !!!!!!!!!!
Bumper to Bumper...run what you brung...spool it up and show us what you got...When the chunks of pavement, rubber and dust settle....Somebody lost...Go backwards and GO HOME!!! Have your fellow Stuper duty buddies drag your lame, sorry F*** drivin' a** home, tail between your legs, don't come back till you can put up a worthwhile fight, your wastin' my fuel :D :D :D :D :D
01_Duramax_Dually
10-10-2002, 09:05
So any of you Fella's seen an Aircraft carrier around?.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Enough bout this Ford and Dodge stuff...Do any of you really care if it is better????/Huh DO ya?
You bought a GM because you like GM, But if you are HP/TQ mongrel and absolutely have to have the most power at this very moment in time then for cryin out loud, Add Propane and N20 with a progressive controller...and quit messin around..
You do all that while I drive my 100% stock, very reliable, CC Dually all over the planet towing my trailer...LOL...HAHAHAHAHAHA... :D .
Please have some respect, if you do pass me, Politely wave....that's all I ask.... :D
More Power
10-10-2002, 12:38
Over the past year or so, I've received dozens of private emails for average Joes who appreciate the lack of bashing here in this BB forum.
Those of you who were a part of this BB forum in early 2000 probably remember the "Battle Zone" forum that we once had (RIP). That forum was a disaster. Most of us were surprised at how "competitive" some people can be. (I use the term loosely.)
MP
[ 10-10-2002: Message edited by: More Power ]</p>
deerhunter7
10-10-2002, 13:07
This competion is great. Look at the big step the
HD Duramax/Allison brought us. Now with Ford stepping up to the plate with a few improvements
it puts the ball back in Gms court. This is win win for the consumer. Besides HP and Torque I hope they really work on who can get the best
mileage. This is a good time for HD trucks period! :D
I don't really give a hoot about who outpulled what.
My truck does everything I want it to and it does them well.
When it is time to get a new one in probably 10 years, I will shop around and see what I can get.
Bora
GMC-2002-Dmax
10-10-2002, 18:50
I just read thru this and all I gotta say is "SO WHAT". :eek:
I would never buy a FORD and I had a choice to buy under FORD "X" plan and GM Supplier Discount.
Well as you can see I'm drivin' the Generals product, always have always will. :D
The bottom line guys and gals ( where'd DIVA and Brandi go???) :confused: ......
..........Is that the Ford is an overcomplicated engine with all this computer controlled stuff, wait till it starts screwing up. I'll take my aluminum headed monster any day.
They had to copy the Allison, hey I want the real thing not some Knock OFF. tongue.gif
So what that they rate it at a higher HP than the Duramax. HP is one small part, factor in gearing, overall weight, torque and HP curves, etc.
The only test that matters is this one,
WHO IS LOOKING AT WHO'S TAILIGHTS PULLING AWAY :D
GMC ;)
[ 10-10-2002: Message edited by: GMC-2002-Dmax ]</p>
I can't seem to catch any body's attention on this, so I'll try a different approach.
The new PSD is a 6.0 liter engine. The DMax is a 6.6. They both use the good injection system and are computer controlled. The DMax will make more power when both are modified to comparably. Like was posted earlier, the PSD at 80% of it's max potenital may make 620 ft lbs, where the DMax at 80% would make say 680.
The old 7.3 PSD would probably have more power potential yet, if it were fitted with all the goodies the newer engines are.
Bottom line, like all Chevy vs whatever comparisions, we Chevy guys will likely be able to get more HP mods easier than the Ford and Dodge guys. It's been that way for a long time.
I still think my juiced equipped D/A, on level four--is the maximum reliable streetable power we can get out of out D/As. It will take another break through in affordable technology before that power level is surpassed. I also think mod level for mod level, we'll be able to have about 10% (ish) more power (HP) than the Fords and Dodges, since our engines are 10% larger.
Blaine
Dmax son
10-11-2002, 02:21
As I see it gm raised the bar and now dodge and ford have steped up. Have fun buy what you want drive what you want because there either going to find a way to smog diesel or the goverment will step in and put a cap on max hp and tq numbers. Just like they did with the sportbikes.
Oh and I would trust the allison , with there heavy duty auto than the copied ford tranny. Or how they copied the heavy duty front ends off the dodge, or the third door option of the chevys.
Bryan
DIESELMAN 6.5
10-11-2002, 04:10
RELAX GUY: wHY DO WE CARE what ford does.They have a good truck,I am chevy nomatter what so could care less how much hp they gain on use.WE are gm loyal arent we? Iknow i am so just relax,drink what ever you need to calm down. What i dont understand is am i wrong saying this,sooner or latter we gm owers will have the uperhand again.Ford on my own oppion has to copy gm all the time so i fill gm will beef up the dmax anyway.SOONER or latter the powertrain on these trucks wont be able to take the stress of these big cube engines unless, a bigger frame and stonger tranny is mad to take the torgue of these engines am i wrong on this.I dont care what ford does because i will never buy a ford even if sombody gave me a f*o*r*d.I have always been chevy and always will be so let ford have their gain on the market for know chevy will beef up the dmax and hopefulily i will be able to buy a 3/4 ton in 10 yrs when the price is more in my reach but for now my 1995 3/4 6.5 with 95,500 miles will do me just find.I sure love the new D maxs just wish they would put steel heads on them even though it would be more wait on the motor but maybe in the future they will.A motor can only take so much heat and that is why i think steel heads on the beast would be bettr.thanks for listening to my oppions for what they are worth. dieselman 6.5 chad e shafer
Well, what I'm about to suggest may not be the best financial strategy for GM but from a marketing standpoint it could work!
Seing how easy it is to get 90 even 120 more hpand 250 lbs of torque out of the DMAX, I guess it would be "possible" for the good engineers at GM to workout a ECM/TCM flash upgrade that would give every owner a very safe and conservative 26 more hp and 41 more foot/pound of torque to shut everyone's mouth for another year or two!
Just dreamin...
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