Bilstein vs. Rancho

[Camstyn]

It seems that everyone is happy with their Bilstein shocks, has anyone compared them to Rancho's?
How much longer are the Bilstein shocks than OEM? Reason I ask is because I plan to put in the green torsion bar keys for a 3" front end lift (to clear 35's) and I'd like shocks that won't be topped out.

Thanks!

[ski]

i am running the rancho rs900xs', they feel great. I chose them over the bilsteins for the adjustability. 9 levels to choose from depending upon conditions. I had bilsteins on my Z71, did not seem bad at all. I got a buy 3 get one free from www.samsoffroad. (http://www.samsoffroad.) c o m (not sure if it si still available) I also replaced my keys, went to about 2.25". Any higher than that the ride gets REAL bouncy, i would suggest against 3". I plan on running 315/75's as well, with some creative trimming it should not be a problem.

[JimWilson]

According to Rancho the "stock" 9000's for the HD's are able to work with trucks that have a 2 inch lift. I've got them on my truck, and I just now ordered the green keys from gmpartsdirect.com, so I'm sure hoping that Rancho didn't lie to me. ;)

[6.6L&94ImpalaSS]

I have had both the 9000's and currently the Bilstein's and I would have to say by far the Bilstein's are the best for all around driving and towing.

Mike

[RVGuy]

Mike,

I have the 5-way adjustable Ranchos.

How heavy are you towing...I'm talkin' about hitch or pin weight not trailer weight.

The reason I ask, is that as good as Bilsteins are, I have a hard time believing the same set of shocks will provide a smooth normal ride when not towing and be able to dampen an additional 2300 lbs. on top of the axle.

I know in my case, there's no way a single set shocks can do both jobs well. I tow a 5er with a pin weight of over 2300 lbs. and over the undulations on these Texas roads, that much weight in the back gives my shocks a heck of a workout even in position 5 (stiffest).

Then, when not towing, I can back them down to level two for a much softer ride. I just don't see a single set shock being able to do that.

[6.6L&94ImpalaSS]

Jim,

I am towing a 10,000 lb 5th wheel, so the hitch or pin weight I think would be around 12-1500 lbs. I was amazed at the difference between the 9000 5 way and the Bilstein's. I was a firm believer in the Rancho's and have used them for all my trucks, but was very disappointed in these at any setting. In MY case the Bilsteins were much better.

Mike

[dmaxalliTech]

Originally posted by JimWilson:
According to Rancho the "stock" 9000's for the HD's are able to work with trucks that have a 2 inch lift. I've got them on my truck, and I just now ordered the green keys from gmpartsdirect.com, so I'm sure hoping that Rancho didn't lie to me. ;) You better save the oem keys cause your prolly gonna want to put them back in.. Ask Mike (6.6l..) Whaaaay to rough a ride with green keys..

[Idle_Chatter]

RVguy, the Bilsteins can and do provide better ride both loaded and unloaded due to internal variable valving. Instead of having to dig around in the wheelwells and crawling under the rear tweaking little knobs, the Bilsteins sense oil flow when dampening and add resistance when necessary. Nitrogen filled to prevent foaming and nearly a lifetime shock, but to each his own. ;)

[afp]

"You better save the oem keys cause your prolly gonna want to put them back in.. Ask Mike (6.6l..) Whaaaay to rough a ride with green keys.."

What? I have had my leveling kit from Hill Country 4X4 for 8 months now, and the ride is great. I have no intention of returning to stock. I raised the nose 2", and they recommend notgoing above that. These systems do not increase torsion bar loading, they just reset the "zero" of the tortion bars to a higher point. The reason the ride can get firmer is because as youraise the nose you transfer weight to the rear of the truck, which lightens the front end a little.

Blaine

[6.6L&94ImpalaSS]

afp,

We just bumped the screw right up to the key (key still resting on the screw block) and I was about 1/2 inch higher in the front. The ride was so bone jarring, I think I lost some teeth. Had to pull them.

Idle_Chatter is right on the money :D

Mike

[Camstyn]

Originally posted by Idle_Chatter:
<snip>the Bilsteins sense oil flow when dampening and add resistance when necessary. Nitrogen filled to prevent foaming and nearly a lifetime shock, but to each his own. ;) Don't the Rancho RSX shocks do the same thing?

[roegs]

I was a little disappointed to notice that the RSX9000 adj shocks I purchased did not appear to be gas charged. Is there a downside to standard vs. gas charged?

[Idle_Chatter]

Don't the Rancho RSX shocks do the same thing? If the Ranchos are non-adjustable, they have fixed valving. If they are adjustable, the knob sets a fixed valving rate until it is changed.

Roegs, Nitrogen filled gives a pre-pressurized oil charge for improved compression response. It also maintains a positive pressure in the shock at all times, to reduce foaming. In a non pressurized shock, as oil is drawn from one chamber to another by pistom movement, the "drawn" side goes under a slight vacuum and this leads to foaming and loss of viscosity in the oil which reduces dampening.

[JimWilson]

Originally posted by Camstyn:
Don't the Rancho RSX shocks do the same thing? Yes, they do -- the RSX is a self adjusting shock.

[afp]

Mike,

You must have some other issues going on with your truck. You are the first and only person I've seen that has experienced what you describe with the Hill Country 4X4 Levelling Kit. My truck's ride wasn't significantly affected at all, and I have had it off road and on rough roads many times since installing my levelling kit.

Blaine

[ 07-31-2003, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: afp ]

[JimWilson]

Originally posted by dmaxalliTech:
You better save the oem keys cause your prolly gonna want to put them back in.. Ask Mike (6.6l..) Whaaaay to rough a ride with green keys.. I hope this is not the case. Right now, I'm trying to solve a ride issue.

My truck came from the factory seriously listing towards the DS. I cranked the PS less then 2 turns to level it front/back (even though that's not enough), but I had to crank the DS almost 7 turns in order to get it level front/back and side/side. AAMOF, I have probably less then 1 full turn on the DS and it's still not level! :mad:

Unfortunately, cranked that tight makes it a bit bouncy as far as the ride goes, even with the Rancho's set on 7. One of the things I've noticed is that a lot of people who've "overcranked" their tbars have the bouncy ride, and swapping the keys seems to fix that. I'll let you know... :D

[6.6L&94ImpalaSS]

You must have some other issues going on with your truck. You are the first and only person I've seen that has experienced what you describe with the Hill Country 4X4 Levelling Kit. My truck's ride wasn't significantly affected at all, and I have had it off road and on rough roads many times since installing my levelling kit.afp,

I don't know if it was an issue with the key's or the truck. All I know is to level my truck I had to crank the torsion bars up all the way. As JimWilson did and it made it very bouncy. I thought by changing the key's that would take care of it. Unfortunately, with the key's resting on the screw block (all the way down) I was 1/2" taller in the front and the bounce was unbearable. I decided to take them out. All is fine now, but my front is a hair low now.

Mike

[afp]

Mike,

What keys did you use?

Blaine

[6.6L&94ImpalaSS]

afp,

The numbers on the key's are:

XL34-5B328-CA WN22
XL34-5B328-CA WN23

My tech looked up the number and they were shown for the 2500 HD.

Do you have any info on these key's, like they are not the right ones?

Mike

[ski]

I also installed the hill levelling keys. cranked to about 2" and added the RS9000X shocks and ride is great. If you go much above 2", the ride does net get any more firm just bouncy as all get out ! I am on the fence as I had bilsteins on my 96 Z71 and loved them (they were stock back then). just wanted to try something I could adjust and "buy 3 get 1 free" didn't hurt either :D

[8.1GASSER]

Just throwing my 2 cents in. I have the so-called "green Keys" p/n 15592573, originallyI cranked my factory keys, but decided to try the green keys, let me tell you they do ride much better than cranked factory keys. Now I understand the whole reindexing part and how they perform the same function as cranking, but with less turns, but they did make a noticeable difference in the way "MY" truck rides. To go along with the shock discussion, I added Edelbrock Xtreme travel remote res. shocks to the HD and they are 1000X's better than stock and compare with the best of them, they are way different than the regular IAS shocks. I run nothing but remote res. shocks on my sleds and notice less shock fade and they do run cooler due to the added oil volume, these shock perform the same way, plus they keep tabs on my 35's very well.

[afp]

Mike,

My keys were aftermarket units from Hill Country 4WD. That may explain the difference. Check them out:

http://www.hill4wheeldrive.com/

Blaine

[JimWilson]

Originally posted by ski:
I also installed the hill levelling keys. cranked to about 2" and added the RS9000X shocks and ride is great.Seeing as how this is my exact setup -- well, it will be once I find the time to install the keys -- this is the type of thing I like to hear! :D I want the height and the ride quality.

Just for curiosities sake... what do you have the Rancho's in the front set at. Mine are on 6 now.

[JimWilson]

Well, I installed the keys and now I have the opposite problem; the front end is too high! Yup, you read that right -- I can't adjust it down far enough.

My DS was much lower then my PS right from the factory. With the stock keys I had the DS cranked till there was only about 2 or 3 threads left, while the PS still had a long way to go. Now, the PS is cranked all the way down while the DS is about half way up. The front end now sits higher then the rear, and that's empty. :eek:

I've only driven it about 25 miles so far, but the ride seems fine. I have to make a run tomorrow, so I'll know more then.

Has anyone installed a 1 or 2 inch block in the rear of their truck? I think I may need to do that in order to get the rear higher then the front again. Only problem is that I really don't want to add any blocks, because the last thing I need is axle wrap. :(

[ski]

jim,

sorry to leave you hanging. I have experimented and found that I like the front at 5 empty on the street. good mix of ride and firm feeling for control. FWIW, I cannot tell much of a difference between 5 and 6. I have run most settings for about two weeks at a time and have settled at 5. I run 4 in the rear unloaded as well. Off road for any amount of time I will crank the front down to 2 or 3, easier on the kidneys :D

Checkout Camstyn (user here) for the addition of the 1" block. believe it was installed by a shop for him. I have checked into doing this as well, local shop quoted $25 for blocks and $40 for labor. Glad to hear it went well for you.

[6.6L&94ImpalaSS]

Jim,

That is what happened to my truck with the Green Key's, but I had Rancho 9000's and the ride was like being on a pogo stick all the time. I ended up going back to stock key's and installing Bilsteins. Cranked the key's all the way up and everything has been great. The truck rides great.

Mike

[6.6L&94ImpalaSS]

Jim,

That is what happened to my truck with the Green Key's, but I had Rancho 9000's and the ride was like being on a pogo stick all the time. I ended up going back to stock key's and installing Bilsteins. Cranked the key's all the way up and everything has been great. The truck rides great.

Mike

[Camstyn]

I've got a question regarding the Rancho 9000X's, I understand that they are good for 0 - 2" of lift. Since installing the green keys on the front I've felt the stock lightly shocks top out a couple of times, while going over railroad tracks and consecutive large bumps on the highway. To keep from causing any damage I'm thinking about going to aftermarket shocks. Am I correct to assume that the Rancho shocks are actually 2" longer than the OEM ones? Or are they just long enough to be installed with the 2" lift, like the OEM ones are?
I see that they also offer shocks for a 4" lift, and I'm wondering if that is a better alternative if the 0-2" ones aren't any longer than stock.

6.6L&94ImpalaSS, since you've had both the RS9000X's and the Bilsteins, do you know which were longer, and how they compared to the OEM shocks?

I'm not doing this to improve ride quality, it seems fine to me as it is, just to prevent any damage from occuring when the shocks top out. If the Ranchos (or Bilsteins) will top out like the OEM ones then I'll save my money.

Thanks!


Thanks!

[ski]

Camstyn,

i contacted rancho before purchasing as I had the same question. The tech I spoke with said the "stock replacement" unit has enough travel for 0 - 2+" lift. the 4" shock would work, but you must stay at least 2" inches above stock or the shock could bottom out in the housing. he has had customers experience this with around 1" cranking.

The ride on the stock shock feels OK and unless driven aggressively you might not bottom them out, but going to aftermarket liek the rancho or the bilsteins is a huge improvement in ride. Night and day difference.

[6.6L&94ImpalaSS]

Camstyn,

When I did my switch to Bilsteins, I added a 3/4" spacer at the mounting base (bottom) of the shock. I did this just to be sure I did not bottom out on top.

Since changing back to the stock key's, the Bilstein shocks and the spacers, the ride has been great!

Mike

[Camstyn]

Thanks for the info Mike, can you tell me more about the spacer you installed? That might be all that I need..

Did you ever try comparing the Ranchos to the Bilsteins now that you've gone back to the stock keys?

Thanks!

[6.6L&94ImpalaSS]

I had the Rancho's on with the stock key's and I thought it still had a somewhat bouncy ride. I do not get this with the Bilsteins.

I made the blocks myself out of aluminum. I took the lower bracket off and measured the hole distance. I then drilled my two hole in a bloct 3/4" thick x 2" wide x 3" length.

I think anyone who cranks up the key's should make blocks for the shocks. I think it is to close without.

Mike

[DmaxMaverick]

It is just as bad to bottom out a shock as to over extend it.

No matter what method you use to "crank up" the torsion bars (a lift does not apply here), the top and bottom stops will remain the same. The shock needs to be able to handle the full travel of the suspension. If you crank up the torsion bars, either with OEM or other keys, it does not change the suspension travel. Messing with the shock location is OK if you NEVER have a chance of overextending/compressing the suspension. One deep pot hole and it's all over. The only way to avoid this is to adjust the stops. If you raise it 3", and install a shock that is 2" longer, the lower stop needs to be raised 2". If you stay with stock control arms and stops, there should be no need to change the shock length. Positioning the shock withing the travel may improve performance and ride.

Another possible reason that ride suffers is the shock design. Most of them (high quality shocks) have a middle ground "sweet spot" that is intended to handle normal on road conditions. The valving gets more aggressive as the shock approaches its extremes to handle off road suspension travels. This means that if your shock is at the top 1/3 of its travel at rest, it will be more firm than when it is stock, as it is doing the "routine" dampening in the more firm area of its travel.

[6.6L&94ImpalaSS]

DmaxMaverick,

There is no stop for over-extending the control arms. Jack the front end up by the frame and the distance the wheel will fall is based on the amount of travel with the control arms. With out the blocks the distance was when it over-extended the shock. With the blocks, I do not over-extend the shocks anymore. The stop for wheel travel up has plenty of cushion without bottoming the shock, even with the 3/4" thick blocks installed.

As you said on the middle ground sweet spot, I have to agree. I think by adding the block, I am staying in that sweet spot.

Again, this is what I have found on my truck. I am not sure if all trucks are the same, but then again, the green key's did not work for me.

Mike

[JimWilson]

i contacted rancho before purchasing as I had the same question. The tech I spoke with said the "stock replacement" unit has enough travel for 0 - 2+" lift. the 4" shock would work, but you must stay at least 2" inches above stock or the shock could bottom out in the housing. he has had customers experience this with around 1" cranking.This is exactly the information I got, and what my personal experience has found to be true as well (my 9000's seem to work just fine with the green keys).

[JimWilson]

Mike;

Yours is the exact opposite of what I have. With my stock keys cranked and the Ranchos I was getting the pogo affect. With the green keys and the same Ranchos the front end is MUCH better then it was. Man, that's really weird...