front end lift

[moto x]

I have seen a few people list that they have 2.5" Front Leveling Cam. I am looking to rise up my front 2"-4" for a little more tire clearance with out tightening my torson bars so much.
Is there a factory 2" lift??

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

Greg

[Bass_on_tap]

Hi Moto X, I installed the aftermarket torsion cams. They raise the front end about 2-2.5" from stock. I raised mine 2". They are available from Hill4wheel.com under "8 lug and HD leveling kit". They are also available on ebay for less money. They say that the kit can be installed using a 2 jaw puller but I was unsuccessful in doing so. I purchased a GM torsion bar unloading tool and the kit went in without any problem in about 10 minutes. Tool can be had from www.thetoolwarehouse.net for about $74.00 at http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/OTC-7822A.html. From GM it's about $150.00. I plan on doing a number of friend

[moto x]

Thanks for the info, I am going to try to add it.

Greg

[addicted to coffee]

Thanks Bass. Very concise and informative.

I have been researching a new K3500 purchase. I hope your info works on duallies.


How big a tire are you guys running after the lift?

The tire I'm looking at (and drooling on ;) are 35.4" overall.

[ 01-11-2003: Message edited by: addicted to coffee ]</p>

[JoeyD]

The new keys you guy's are using are from the Ford IFS suspension 97-present 150 and 250LD. I would think they would be cheaper from the dealer.

[Bass_on_tap]

Joey D, would you have a part number by any chance? By the way, what's a "250LD" so I know when I go looking at the dealer.
It makes sense, the ones I bought had the part numbers ground off the sides and they were repainted. Thanks for the heads up. If I get a chance, I'll go to the dealer and check it out. Dave

[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: Bass_on_tap ]</p>

[mackin]

Bass on Tap

FORD PART# XL3Z-5B328-CA

That ought ta do it ....


MAC

[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[Professor]

I have also read elsewhere that the Ford keys work on the GM 1500 but not the 2500HD. And they are saying the GM1500 keys are indexed properly to raise the 2500HDs

[hoot]

Slap me if I'm wrong but changing the keys makes is no different than cranking the bars with the adjustment screws.

I'm not going to explain it but if you look close at what goes on under there, the keys do the same thing as adjusting with the screws. All they do is twist the bars. I presume they have the hexagon hole in a different position but all that does is twist the bars. The only significant difference is if you adjust the screws it's free ($$).

When you adjust the torsion bars to raise the front of the vehicle, you are not applying any more twist to the bars than if you left them stock.

Why?
Because when you twist the bars, the truck rises. The bars still have the same amount of twist.
It's the same idea as putting lift blocks under your leaf springs. Doesn't compress the springs anymore than without the blocks. You are just looking at the method of movement being applied in a different way. Twisting a bar as opposed to compressing a leaf spring pack.

Now if you install something real heavy up front like a Ranch Hand bumper or a snow plow and you adjust the front back up, then you have increased the "twist" of the bars. So unless you add weight up front, you are not adding twist when you raise the front.

Why the harsh ride? Because the control arms are closer to the suspension travel stops when you raise the front. Now when you hit a bump, the suspension has more upward travel but when it comes back down, it hits the bunp stop sooner. In other words, your suspension is no longer centered between the upper and lower travel stops.

[ 01-13-2003: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>

[Professor]

Hoot,

You are correct. The only advantage of changing the keys is to get a different

[afp]

I too installed the Hill Country leveling kit. I was able to use an 8" Sears 2-jaw gear puller to do the job.

As has been mentioned, the kit does not load the tosion bars any more than stock. It simply resets the "zero." Mine doesn't ride significantly different, but I only rasied it 2." The company says that going above 2" of lift makes it ride much rougher.

The reason it rides rougher is because by lifting the front, you shift the weight more toward the rear and as such are unloading the front suspension a little.

I had to have the front end realigned, which was no problem. All the stock components still work fine. I have had mine on now for about 2 months. Aside from looking better, it makes a huge diffeence when hunting off road.

Blaine

[ 01-14-2003: Message edited by: afp ]</p>

[Dmax son]

Well I went to fordpartsonline to get a price on the cams, and they list for 22 bucks, I don't know if that is for one, but if this is whats need to lift the chevy you could have both for under 50 bucks.

Bryan

[hoot]

I would not recommend lifting your truck by adjusting your torsion bars any more than the adjusting screws will take it. Using cams does the same thing only allows even more.

If you lift more than 1.5" you risk premature front axle CV joint and boot tear problems.

You should be able to lift it 1.5" with the adjustment screws alone. The cams only give you excessive lift, the wrong way.

Get a real suspension lift. To me, the cams (torsion bar lift) are snake oil. Throwing money out the window to do something that is not good for your truck.

Bottom line... if you want to lift 2" or more your only choice right now is a full blown suspension lift or a boy (body) lift.

My philosophy... do it right or don't do it. Your suspension will look and work like crap if you over crank it.

Here ya go... I sell a kit that sells for $99.95

Comes with two bolts.
Directions....

1) Remove short bolts
2) Install longer bolts
3) Turn bolts until desired height is obtained. ;)

[ 01-14-2003: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>

[hdmax(mike)]

Hoot; you may be able to sell a few of your kits ;) But, many times it isn`t the bolt that is too short, it`s the channel above the torsion bar adjusting cam that stops the adjustment. The cam hits the top of the cross member before you run out of bolt.

[afp]

2" with the Hill Country kit is not excessive lift or doing it the wrong way. My truck's suspension looks good and works great with this system.

Here is Hill Country's take on all this (http://www.hill4wheeldrive.com, under 8 Lug/HD leveling Kit, FAQs)

Sierra/Silverado Leveling kit

What do I get with this kit and how does it work?

The leveling kit contains a new pair of torsion
bar adjusting cams and installation instructions. The new cams are cast with the receiving socket at a different index than the factory cams, allowing a taller front end adjustment with the factory adjusting bolt setting.


What do I need for installation, and how long does it take?

Installation requires a floor jack, vehicle stands, a medium sized two-jaw gear puller, and a basic metric 1/2" drive socket set. Installation takes approximately 1-2 hours.


Does this kit require wheel alignment after installation?

Yes, front end alignment should ALWAYS be checked after installing ANY vehicle suspension lift. This kit typically requires a slight toe-in adjustment.


Why can't I just crank up my torsion bars and achieve the same thing?

Cranking in the torsion bar adjusting bolt with the factory indexing cams will cause the top of the cam lever to "bottom out" against the inside of the crossmember channel and grind against it at approximately 1" increase in lift. Although this might get you 1" of lift, it will not allow for any clearance, fine tuning or side to side ride height adjustment. If the adjusting bolt is forced beyond the factory cam's range, it will wipe the threads from the bolt or crack the thread block and cause the torsion bar to release violently.


Will this make make the truck ride differently?

This kit will level the vehicle without a substantial difference in ride quality. Most customers adjust the front to 2" higher than stock, and are satisfied with the ride quality. Common sense might tell you that you are not going to lift the front end of a new 4x4 Chevy 3" or higher for $150 and one hour's worth of work without some sacrifice in ride quality. If you want to go 3" or taller, and you want the truck to ride exactly the same as stock, then this kit is clearly not the answer. If you want to bring up the front 2"-2.5" and don't mind a slightly stiffer ride, (ride quality is inversly proportional to height ABOVE a 2" adjustment), then this is easily the most cost effective way to do it.

Please keep in mind that any suspension lift will slightly amend ride quality (they always have), and if you are completely unwilling to compromise, then maybe you should consider not modifying your truck at all.


Will this kit add 2 or 3 inches to the suspension lift I already have?

No, different lift manufacturers relocate the factory suspension droop stops and change the relative geometry between the front differential and the upper and lower control arm assemblies. Because of the variety in lift design and the changes they present, different kits will display different results when fitted with the leveling kit. ON AVERAGE the leveling kit will add 1" to 1.5" to an existing suspension lift.


Will this kit cause front end problems or prematurely wear out suspension and steering components?

No, this kit actually places less of a load on steering components than conventional 4" or 6" lift kits which use ladder style replacement steering drag links. Full bracket drop kits integrate the steering drop with an offset drag link, (with or without a 3rd idler link); this places a 4"-6" cantilever against the idler arm, pitman arm, and the steering box lower bearing. The leveling kit does not change the drag link or subject the steering components to any of these conditions, commonly associated with premature idler arm failure in IFS lift systems.

The leveling kit works within the range of the FACTORY droop, or downward suspension cycle. It does NOT bind the CV axles or ball joints, just as none of these conditions occur with the truck supported on a hoist and the front wheels hanging freely in the air. A word about IFS lifts: Contrary to popular belief, it is typically the aftermarket wheel and tire combination, and NOT the suspension lift that causes premature failure in IFS components. Wide oversized tires on 10" or 12" wide rims commonly seen with 6" to 8" lifts will cantilever the ball joints and wheel bearings into premature failure --- blaming a properly installed suspension lift for these problems is a common misconception. With that in mind, the leveling kit does not allow clearance for 10" or 12" wide aftermarket rims or drastically oversized tires and this is not a concern.

Blaine

[hoot]

I see a bit of sales BS in that info.

I like this....

------------------------------------------------------
"Will this kit cause front end problems or prematurely wear out suspension and steering components?

No, this kit actually places less of a load on steering components than conventional 4" or 6" lift kits which use ladder style replacement steering drag links."
--------------------------------------------------

The key to the above statement is that it is comparing their kit with other manufacturers suspension kits. Not to a stock truck. The answer "No", IMHO is an outright lie.


------------------------------------------------
"The leveling kit works within the range of the FACTORY droop, or downward suspension cycle. It does NOT bind the CV axles or ball joints,"
------------------------------------------------

No kidding it doesn't bind the CV joints. But if you run them close to max angle at all times, you can bet your sweet bippy they won't last as long. That's why the first statement is BS.

--------------------------------------------------
"Cranking in the torsion bar adjusting bolt with the factory indexing cams will cause the top of the cam lever to "bottom out" against the inside of the crossmember channel and grind against it at approximately 1" increase in lift."
--------------------------------------------------

That statement is pure BS...
I got 1 1/2" and still have more adjustment.

The suspension is designed to be adjusted within the limits of the stock cam and bolts.

No it's not going to be a disaster if you crank it up higher than what GM recommends. I personally don't agree with jacking more than 1 1/2". After that the front axle shafts and steering gear start pointing down hill, CV joints and boots are on a constant angle and you are close to your bump stop.

I'm beating this to death so I'll back off a bit and let you guys go.

[Jelisfc]

I have heard the HD's IFS is different from 1/2 tons with respect to how much cranking you can do with a stock setup. The comment about cams hitting the cross member while true is less likely with a HD. There's a post about HD keys on gm-trucks forum using GM 1/2 ton keys on a HD to get a 2" lift. I'd also bet the Q&A for the Hill kit was written for the 1/2 ton kit and never changed for the HD kit.

[Bass_on_tap]

The part number "FORD PART# XL3Z-5B328-CA" previously posted is incorrect for the 2500HD. I ordered a set and matched them to the ones that I ordered from Hill's and there not even close. Sorry if that post misled anyone. Dave

[afp]

In case anyone's interested, Hill Country has had this leveling kit on the market for a few years now, and have not had any problems with the Chevy's.

Blaine

[JimWilson]

Here's a link that might help...

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47447