Newbie here... 2wd vs 4wd

[typecast]

Hello,

I am researching diesel trucks right now, looking for my next vehicle. If I go with a Duramax, this will be my first diesel, and my first GM product in 20 yrs of driving!

I need something that can tow a travel trailer (up to 7K lbs), seat 3 kids in the back seat comfortably for long trips, will serve as a comfortable (even luxurious!) daily driver for my 30 mile (mostly 65mph freeway) commute each day to work. Seems like we are always needing a truck to haul landscaping mulch or lumber for our household projects; otherwise I would consider an SUV.

The diesel appeals to me for the longevity (I want this truck to last 10+ yrs, 200k miles) and improved gas mileage.

My wife and I test drove a F250 PSD CC last week, but we ruled it out because the back seat didn't have head rests (big flaw especially to a mom of preschoolers), the truck's recirc ball steering felt dead and wandered a lot, and I hate Ford HVAC controls.

I am wondering if there is anything specific to GM trucks I should consider regarding 4wd vs 2wd. I know the system is a part time case vs a full time awd with a center differential (ie Denali, etc), basically making it useful for off-pavement or snowy conditions only. I live in St Louis, and we only get snowy roads a few days a winter. I like to do some exploring off pavement roads, and we do a lot of camping. My current Toyota 4x4 sees very little transfer case use. How strong is the 2500 4x4 transfer case and front differential? Any idea how this might affect my highway mileage? How bad will 2wd affect my resale value?

To be honest, I'm also somewhat concerned about GM build quality and reliability in general. I like to keep my cars a long time; my current 95 Toyota pickup has never needed an unscheduled visit to a service dept. We have just outgrown the thing as a family and it can't tow much.

Thanks for your help.

Galen

[SoCalDMAX]

Hi, Welcome to the Forum! This is a great place to get all of the info you may need.

As far as transfer case and front diff. reliability goes, I haven't heard anything about this being a high failure/maintenance item. In fact, I've not heard too much negative about it. Generally, you'll hear about problems here and there, but people rarely sing praises. I would venture to say it's no more or less reliable than the other 2 brands of 4WD trucks. The only real question is: do you really need 4wd? If so, by all means get it, I believe all 3 are fairly close to equally reliable.

This is partly opinion, part fact. Drive all 3 and I honestly feel you'll notice the GMs ride better and are quieter than the other 2. I love the crewcab with bench seats. They feel like buckets and 4 full size adults and 2 med. size kids can ride all day and feel fresh on arrival. My Mom is 94lbs, she prefers sitting in the middle. :confused: I also feel the Dmax will be at least as reliable as the others. One was used as a hotshot truck and racked up 459,000mi on 2 yrs. Then was sold to another owner, not retired! Nobody makes a perfect vehicle, but the engineering and testing that went into the Dmax is top notch and gives it incredible performance, a lot more performance potential, and longevity. Very high power levels will obviously not give the same life as a stock engine, but moderately high levels are easily attained and could last a long time.

What sets the GMs apart is how quiet they are, the advanced technology in the trucks and the Dmax engine. We've got the highest power rating 5spd auto tranny on the market (it has a 6th gear which is rumored to be enabled in '04), with a 300hp engine that used to be far more powerful than the others (Ford and Dodge just stepped up in power from last yr). The ECM controlled fuel injection system gives unbelievable power and great mileage.

At idle, it is among the quietest, rivaled only by the '03 Dodge. The auto trannies on the Fords and Dodges are a little weak, especially if power is increased. The '03 Ford is going to the "G2" engine, an all new design that I'd like to see run for a year before I'd buy one. They have powdered metal rods, strong enough, but with little reserve strength for longevity/power increases/unforseen problems.

IMHO, the Dmax is the best for the following reasons:

1. Forged, nitrided crankshaft, strongest for it's weight. (Cummins owners argue the sheer weight/size of theirs makes it stronger. Better design and processing makes the Dmax rev quicker/higher while being lighter/stronger.)

2. Forged, frozen then cracked rod. Performance cars use this technique. Strongest for it's weight.

3. 6.6L V8 with 4 valves/cylinder: largest of all 3 mfrs for the '03 model yr.

4. Bosch common rail fuel injection, gives great fuel control, very quiet diesel, Cummins went to this for '03.

5. Computer monitored everything. If a radiator hose blew off, the computer would warn you multiple ways and finally shut off the engine before allowing damage.

6. The Allison is a medium duty tranny mated to the Dmax.

7. The smoothest riding, "car like" truck. If you want a rough riding work truck, the others might be a better choice.

8. Dual zone HVAC, Bose stereo, DVD, XM radio, OnStar, etc, lots of luxury comforts.

IMHO, the GM build quality is right up there with, perhaps better than Ford and Dodge. I've read a lot of horror stories about Ford and Dodge dealers taking an uncooperative stance on warranty repairs. GM regularly updates ECM/TCM/PCM code in direct response to complaints that they must have heard from customers. They've been surprisingly fast for a large corp. Some GM owners have had run-ins with dealers, but my experiences have been great.

I ordered/purchased the truck out of state at invoice cost + $150 courtesy fee. Got 0% financing and it's only been to the dealer once for a short list of minor issues at delivery. I beat on it hard, and not only does it run great, I'm always first at the next light. All without being reminded that it's a diesel except when I fill it up every 2 weeks.

I'm averaging 16-17mpg driving like a kid. Others are seeing 14 to 20mpg, depending on 2WD/4WD, auto or 6spd manual tranny, 2500 (SRW) or 3500 (DRW), driving style, terrain, fuel quality etc.
This is roughly the same or better than the other 2 brands, perhaps slightly better than the PSD.

Hope this helps. I'd really spend a long day driving all 3. I did, and chose the GM. It's the first GM vewhicle I've ever bought. I may never need to buy another.

Regards, Steve

[mackin]

Steve ,

Dam dude I'm sold.....Wait I all ready got one .....Lucky me...... ;)
Good post.......True, the GM Duramax with the Allison is the complete package.......One happy 01 owner with 20k on the clock here......

MAC

[ 09-13-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[NutNbutGMC]

^...STOP right here! Research no further. If you want a fine performing machine, the Duramax / Allison (D/A) is it. Just be sure and get it in a GMC (NutNbutGMC). The Chebbys are made from leftover parts of all makes and models....If you don't buy a D/A machine, shop for a mini-van.

Welcome to the forum.

[bluenote]

Wait a minute...

I thought the difference was that the Chevy's use thicker washers and they actually tighten down all bolts vs. the GMC and it's "amateur grade" build? :D

Mini-vans...shouldn't we just consider those as "speed-bumps?" :confused:

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

HERE WE GO AGAIN!!! :eek:

This has been discussed before, and we all agreed that GMC's are better :D

P.S. Especially the RED ONES ;)

GMC :D

[bluenote]

All 5 GMC guys here at TDP agreed their's are better?? Well, I guess the millions more of us who have Chevy's made a bad choice.

BTW, I know a few people who work at the Flint truck plant. They tell me that when a GMC comes down the line, half the guys take their coffee break since they don't need to assemble the parts as well. tongue.gif So much for "professional grade." :rolleyes:

[NutNbutGMC]

^...Bluenote, the mini-vans are indeed a speed-bump. Especially when they need to outrun a Duramax, they bump up the speed over 97 MPH, easily and leave you (and me) in their dust. :D I hate those things...

[needbigtruck]

To get back on subject and answer your questions. We really enjoy the crew cab. Went to it from a full size Chevy van so it took the kids a while to adjust how much stuff they could bring in the truck with them (I had 3 kids but somehow they grow up and leave, down to 2 for the moment). Steve's post tells you down to the nuts and bolts why the GM Diesels are a good choice, don't forget the HD line has a long list of improvements also (frame, brakes ect.). All I can tell you is that other than an annoying problem with the clutch pedal and clutch (not anything with the Duramax) I am completely satisfied with the ride (I would classify it luxurious), the ability to tow (I pull a 8K 31 foot TT), the quiteness, the pickup bed box (a few loads of gravel, paving blocks ect.), just about everything about it. I have put 28,000 miles on it in about a year and a 1/2. I've added EGT and boost gages on the pillar mount. I don't like greasing it, but not enough to take it to a dealer. I'm getting about 22 MPG lately, changed to AGWAY fuel and am driving at 55 MPH. It's difficult to do, but I've been experimenting. Normal driving (read speeding) I get 20 MPG empty. Towing I've been getting around 12. As for 4WD vs 2WD, I like the 4WD. I use low range to back the trailer as long as I am on gravel(that way I don't have to ride the clutch). Didn't have much snow around here last winter, so I don't have much expierence with that, we can and have gotten lot's of snow (lake effect). Yes it does affect MPG but with the diesel probably doesn't matter. As far as longevity, my 89 Chevy van is still going strong even though for the last 3 years of it's life we pulled a 23ft TT (that really stressed it, 4000 RPM, 2nd gear up very long hills). It has 105000 miles and my daughter is driving now until we get someone to buy it. Of course this is the "Chevy Diesel" page, so for the most part all you'll hear is praise. Just let me end with that I really enjoy driving this truck, wether I am pulling our trailer, or just going to work. I can't imagine ever not enjoying it.

[ 09-14-2002: Message edited by: needbigtruck ]</p>

[typecast]

Thanks to all of you for your replies, epecially Steve and needbig truck. It helps to know how these things work with families and commuting.

I have a bunch more questions I'll start in a new thread.