Transfer case leak repair?

[pushpole]

Just hauled the flats boat up from Florida and noticed a small puddle of transmission fluid on the driveway the next morning, hmmmmmmm. It looked like the tranfer case but could'nt be sure. I drained and refilled the transfer case and cleaned everything up. I parked the truck for a day and no leaks. I put the truck up on jack stands and took her for a 70 mph drive in the driveway.... I found a pinhole leak in the casing (casting porosity?). What's the real deal repair for a leak like this? Thanx!

[DmaxMaverick]

Get the dealer to take care of it, even if you are out of warranty. It may be an obvious manufacturer's defect, which allows for some descretion on the dealer's part to help you. Many cases find the dealer covering the repair, or at least a good part of it. If you have a porosity issue with the case, the leak is just the beginning of a more drastic failure.

[lookin2buy]

pushpole-

DmaxMaverick is right. Take it to the dealer and you might be suprised. No sense in letting it keep leaking, and adding fluid once and a while. It might be something that could still be covered even if it is out of warranty.

[Cliffee]

That is a known defect. GM should acknowledge it. They now have a diiferent transfer case that does not get this leak.

[pushpole]

The dealer and regional rep want to try a leak repair. I've reluctantly agreed. The repair looks like a epoxy smear at the leak location. I must admit it's a very good color match! I will monitor the results in around town driving for a while before I head out for an extended trip. I did get the key words casting porosity in the written diagnosis of the problem. Thanx for the input.

[DmaxMaverick]

Not acceptable!

Under these circumstances, I would demand a warranty extension (specific to the xfer case) to 100K miles. It WILL leak again, and possibly grenade on you. If they are confident that the fix will fix it, then they will be willing to extend your warranty. If they do not, then that should show you just how confident they are in the repair.

A patch like this only gets you outside of the warranty period in most cases.

[4diesels]

DO NOT give in until they make the fix that YOU want. I spent the better part of three days working over a "customer service" rep in order to get what I wanted. Rest assured, it was far more than what they "offered" initially. The simple argument about an ext warranty is the desire to not be stranded one day when the known problem suddenly gets bigger :eek:

If you are the original owner of the truck and better yet if it isn't your first GM truck, you might be surprised what they will do if you make enough of a stink. Not how it SHOULD be but, that is the road they force you to go down.

[DA BIG ONE]

What t-case do you have?

[letsgo]

Quite often pressurized aluminium pipes and tankes can be repaired with dedicated patch kits.

HOW EVER your transfer case is magnesium not aluminium SOOOO what patch kit do they propose using???????

good luck

[William Lee Gingerich]

The transfer case on our crewcab dually started leaking recently, took it to the dealer and there is a brass bushing inside that supports a shaft and if the bushing wears enough, the shaft can wear a pinhole in the back half of the case. That is what happened in our case. Dealer says it will cost $850 plus tax ,not very happy about it!!


02 3500 Crewcab Dually Duramax Allison 65k

[HELENA TRANSMISSION]

what we have found with these tfc's is in the rear case half is where the pump sits in the case.the fit here is not exactly perfect and the resulting"slack" and the on and of the gas of normal driving wears a hole in the case.the only correct repair is replace the case.epoxy will work for a while.we tryed to have one welded with no success.the material thickness there is too thin.good luck!

[DmaxMaverick]

Helena

Thanks for the info.

Is the wear caused by abrasion, or peening? Could the condition be improved/worsened by the type of lubrication or service interval?

I have heard of $850 for the repair by a dealer. What is the cost of parts to make the repair, not including any labor? Can you offer part #'s of what is needed to make the repair?

Thanks

[HELENA TRANSMISSION]

the wear is caused by abrasion.if i remember correctly on this certain tfc there is a clip type spring inside that is designed to dampen the back and forth movement of the pump assy and in this case it was broken.the new case 1/2 has a new spring in it.so it is possible that this is the same problem.good thing there is a magnet in the bottom of the case to catch these parts or else.fluid changes would not help this type of problem.is it a design flaw or driving style issue i guess time will tell.by the way it will only leak fluid while driving not when parked.the pinhole is high enough in the case that it is above the fluid level when parked.i will check on parts cost and possible repair cost in the aftermarket.

[HELENA TRANSMISSION]

rear case section part number is 12478092.my cost through gm was $274,retail at $365.should take about 5-6 hrs to complete job plus some fluid and an adapter gasket.

[pushpole]

The epoxy smear did not work. It started leaking in about 70 miles. So the aft section of the transfer case is being replaced. I can't get the regional rep to cover the whole thing. It's a 50/50 split with credit for the failed epoxy repair. It'll be about 3 bills to me.
Later, and thanx for the input.

[CHVYMAN#9]

THIS IS A KNOWN PROBLEM WITH THE TRANSFERCASES IN THE AREA OF THE OIL PUMP (USUALLY ONLY WITH HD 2500/3500 WITH NON-AUTO T-CASE). THE ONLY WAY TO GET THIS TO GO TO A SPECIAL POLICY OR RECALL IS FOR PEOPLE THAT EXPIRIENCE THIS PROBLEM TO MAKE A CASE WITH GM (POWER IN NUMBERS!) IT IS A DESIGN FLAW OF NEW PROCESS AND NEEDS TO BE ADRESSED. YOU MAY HAVE TO PAY SOME NOW BUT SHOULD GET REIMBURSED IF GOES TO A POLICY.

[jylars]

I recently replaced my transfer case for the price of $1221. It had ran dry and sounded like a theshing machine when I put into 4 wheel. I was told that this was at cost.

[hawkeye43]

Getting GM to stand behind the case is like the way they are handling the injectors. Its a pile of b-llsh-t that when my truck goes down and it takes 3 to 5 weeks to get it going because of a shortage of injectors that i have nothing to drive, all they say is sorry. They knew of this problem for what 8 or 9 months now and its a fix as they fail thing, maybe its is time to buy a Ford

[floridadmax]

what they need is for 3 or 4 to lock up injury and or kill some people then they will have a safety recall and such.

[mattb5150]

My truck is now leaking from the x case. Noticed ATF all over the bottom of the truck yesterday from the case back. Got on the site here did some reading about this. Drained the case and about a pint of purplish silvery fluid came out, didn't smell burned however. Wanted to post to see if there have been any successes in having GM fix this. My truck is at 89k miles now, GM wouldn't replace steering shaft a few months ago even though I had reported it and had the bearing replaced prior to 36k warranty. So I doubt they would touch this. I am going to talk to a few trans shops around here one owner has a Dmax/alli himself and see what this will cost me to have done.

Matt B.

[mattb5150]

Went in to local dealer today and talked with Service Manager. He basicallly told me "Should have bought an extended warranty". Thats BS Going to go by a trans shop near work where the owner has a Dma/Alli and see if he has any recommendations and what he would charge to change the rear case half.

Matt B.

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by mattb5150:
Went in to local dealer today and talked with Service Manager. He basicallly told me "Should have bought an extended warranty". Thats BS Going to go by a trans shop near work where the owner has a Dma/Alli and see if he has any recommendations and what he would charge to change the rear case half.

Matt B. Try the following....
http://www.transfercases.com/
http://www.drivetrain.com/transfercasesparts.html#New%20Process%20Model%2024 6

[Paul Clancy]

Well the story goes...bought my 02 d/a ,has lots of miles , 142,000 but drives like a dream. Passed 2 inspections...looks new. 1 day after it's home find a leak, tcase has 2 small holes, dealer removes and says inards are shot (4hi seemed to go in ok although I never tried 4lo). After some pressure from me dealer offered to rebuild on his dime or gm remanufactured unit with improved covers etc. for a few hundred. Took the reman of course. Hoping this is the end of the tcase issue for me. Luck to others with this.

[Shorty]

Thought I would join the crowd,Bought my 2002 used D/A about 2 months ago, decided to change all fluids,none in transfer case!!Loose pump clip?? had worn hole in case.$1000 later new case installed,no internal damage lucked out there,sounds like a recurring problem!!! Shorty

[NFLDMAX]

I had a leak as well, but it turned out the gasket between the transmission and the transfer case failed.

[Paul Clancy]

Well my gm reman tc went in yesterday and all is well. Tech said it certainly appeared to be a new unit. Came with all sensors and was a simple install. He also said it had a note from gm saying to use regualr atf , not the special(expensive) blue stuff gm was requiring for the old case, interesting. Test drove like a dream ...all is well, in and out of 4hi/lo no error codes. Time to be happy again.

Paul.

[DmaxMaverick]

Originally posted by Paul Clancy:
....He also said it had a note from gm saying to use regualr atf , not the special(expensive) blue stuff gm was requiring for the old case, interesting.... The old transfer case should not have had "the special(expensive) blue stuff" in it. That's Autotrac II fluid, and only used in Autotrac transfer cases, and not available on any truck with the Allison tranny, even with push button 4x4. Push button 4x4 is just an electrically operated manual transfer case. The old transfer case should have been serviced with Dexron III ATF, and nothing else. Did the old transfer case have blue fluid in it?

[Paul Clancy]

Tech said the old one did have the blue fluid. So I wonder if incorrect service caused the unit to fail? Hmmm. Oh well, all prior to me owning it so it's fluid under the bridge ..gg.

[mattb5150]

Well I went by two trans shops this week and neither had heard of this problem before, not a good sign. Helena Trans, are there any bulletins or industry pubs on this matter.

I think I am going to take the truck back to the dealership and have them diagnose the problem and give me an estimate for repairs. I will also ask them to contact GM and report the problem. I want it in writing that they will not fix. Also noticed tonight when checking for more leakage that the fluid is getting onto the catalytic converter, wonder if GM will take notice now!

It seems these are all on 2002 trucks, does anyone else with another year have this problem as well?

Matt B.

[mattb5150]

Had the JB Weld smear done on the hole today for $200 at the stealership. They didn't even try to call it something else, receipt says fixed with JB Weld. The hole they covered didn't appear to me to be the source of the leak when I was looking at it and it was big, at least half the diameter of a pencil, 3cm+/-. The service writer told me over the phone that this fix has a 1 year 12k miles warranty. We'll see what happens, now I get to clean the bottom of the truck off this next weekend, especially the fuel cooler.

Matt B.

[mattb5150]

No apparent leaks after 300+ miles.

[CALIMAX]

WOW, $200 to have JB weld installed. Just curious on why you did not try it yourself?

[mattb5150]

Cali,

Didn't try it myself due to pushpoles lasting only 70 miles. I took the truck to the dealer ultimately hoping that they would replace the case half but wanted to have the whole thing documented for future. Service writer called and suggested the JB weld and said that it would be warrantied for 12 months and 12k miles. I guess I thought it was worth it if I got the thing to not leak and have it be someone else's problem for a year. So far so good over 1,000 miles.

Matt B.

[FJ40INTOW]

I'm not condoning GM doing this but JB Weld does work! I broke a tooth on the idler gear in my modified FJ40 Transfer case. The tooth went through bottom of case. It was my daily driver at the time so I fished the tooth out and JB Welded the hole closed. Drove 2 weeks that way until I could pull case and replace gear. I had a coworker weld the hole shut. Been using case for 3 years now. Case too thin to weld? I seen this guy weld coke cans together end to end with a tig welder with no holes.

[Renomax2001]

I noticed a leak coming from the 4wd transfer case right at the 3rd bolt at the seal and know it is not trans because I just changed the transfer case fluid (gm 12378508) Auto-Track II, and it is a purple fluid.
I have 66000 on a 2001 Durmax 2500hd. Would like to know if any similar problems and the est. cost to fix at dealer. I have a friend in the 4wd repair business, should I get est. from both?
Thanks

[More Power]

Your transfer case (either manual or pushbutton electric shift) requires 1.9 qts of Dextron ATF. You don't have an Auto Trac transfer case...

"3rd bolt at the seal" Is this where the transfer case bolts onto the Allison?

Has the transfer case been out of the truck before?

Jim

[Renomax2001]

Jim
In my 2001 diesel supplement manual on page 7-51 it has Auto-Trac II Fluid in the fluid lib past.
The leak is coming from the 5th bolt from top out of 17 bolts about 1ft. in front of drive shaft.
Transfer case has never been out of truck

[More Power]

Oh contrare....

There are a number of confusing issues regarding recommended fluids for these trucks.. However, this is one we're sure about.... ;)

Page 4-420 of the 2001 GM service manual lists the various requirements for the NVG 263 "Selectable" NP1 transfer case (the pushbutton version), as well as the NVG 261 2-speed manually shifted NP2 version.

Both transfer cases require approximately 2 qts Dextron III. :)

There are no "automatic" transfer cases used in the 2500HD/3500 trucks. Your choices are either 2-speed manual or "selectable".

Jim

[Renomax2001]

Jim
Thanks for explaining the transfer case ie. (manual and auto). I was confused because I thought the push button instrument panel was the automatic I understand that the Auto 4wd has the button "Auto 4WD" on the instrument panel. A 4wd expert I am not.
In the photo you sent the leak is coming from one of the bolts shown, it is about 2 bolts lower, (behind the frame) in the photo.
Thanks again. I will look for your reply.
Steve

[More Power]

You could do a search for leaks in this forum, but I don't recall a bolt leak (or near a bolt leak) on the transfer case. There have been case porosity issues with a few early Allison transmissions that resulted in leaks at a couple of bolts (behind the torque converter).

If this is out of warranty, I'd eliminate a possible case defect as a cause as a first step (i.e. crack etc.). If that's not the problem, I'd pull the offending bolts, then seal them using a bolt thread sealant (it's like Teflon pipe dope), and/or possibly install a copper washer (GM pn-10139097) under the bolt head.

The copper washer trick is how GM solved some of the early (pre 11/03 build dates) Allison bolt leaks.

Jim

PS. You are correct about the diesel supplement mentioning Auto Trac fluid for the transfer case..... My 2001 diesel supplement mentions the 6.5L diesel as well... Seems a few bugs found their way into the various books and manuals. I use Dextron in my truck's transfer cases. smile.gif

[Renomax2001]

Jim
Yes I have searched this forum and found the post with the bolts problem at the torquec converter.
If that were the problem in this case, would the leak be somewhere else?
I am taking it in today to get a the problem diagnosed at my service dept. and will report there findings.
Thanks again for your help and education.
Steve

[More Power]

Mentioning a bolt leak behind the Allison torque converter was only intended to illustrate a problem somewhat similar to yours, and provide information that might solve your transfer case leak problem.... ;)

Jim

[Renomax2001]

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/sanders01.jpg

In the above photo the spring that came loose or broke off wore a small hole at the indention left and back there you see the wear.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/sanders02.jpg

Above and close to the center of the photo you can see the hole about 3 inches above the 3rd bolt and right below the dirtiest part of the case.
Just picked up truck from service dept. with a $1,280 bill.
The problem was a spring came loose from fluid pump inside the transfer case and caused the tention to wear a small hole in the rear half of the transfer case at the drive shaft.

Steve

[ 01-28-2006, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Renomax2001 ]

[mattb5150]

This is the known problem reported here in the past. I have the same problem fixed with JB Weld by the dealer that is not holding(slowly leaking again). I guess GM expects us to put up with these defects before 100k miles when my 1993 x-case has 250k miles with no problems.

[sjd_sd]

my 2002 2500hd had a leak which the dealer claimed came from the seals. They replaced these, and a few days later it started to leak again. This time they said it came from an "upper" seal. In all they charged me $1100. After having it back for a few more days, more leaks. Now they found a "hairline crack" and wanted $1400 for a new housing. I couldn't take it anymore so I pulled the truck out of the dealer and went by the local transmission shop. He found a pin-hole in about 30 seconds which looked like some problem with the way the metal was formed. This mechanic kept it for a day and put some "liquid metal" in the hole. It's been fine ever since and he didn't charge me anything. I would rather drink gear oil than go back to a dealer.

[DA BIG ONE]

Perhaps, a new unit maybe a better choice!

http://www.transfercases.com/

[mattb5150]

Well the t-case started leaking again, drips all over driveway and dirt sticking to the back of the truck and shell. Crawled under and the JB weld was still in place and didn't have a hole bored thru it like I thought it would, so I touched the blob and it moved. Unpeeled it from the case, I guess the fluid forced it off and started leaking again. So I took it back to the dealer for my free fix because it hadn't been 12 months since the last time. Also needed the rear pinion seal replaced for the second time in 99k miles.

Service writer tells me that GM wants them to use a new putty and the truck has to sit over the weekend with a heater nearby (shoplight) to dry due to cold wet weather. We'll see what happens. If this doesn't work I don't think I'll take it back to them again, too much hassle to have the truck gone. Think I'll just keep doing this putty stuff bu do it myself a couple times a year. BTW the service writer told me no one has come back again after having this putty put on their case.

Matt

[SS396]

Mattb, there is a broken clip inside the TC that is wearing the whole in the case.

The fix is a new rear case half and clip. I would have the dealer do the repair right.

There are trucks out there that are destroying transfer cases because they are loosing fluid through these wear holes. It is more of a problem than people think.

[mattb5150]

SS I know about the shaft wearing thru the case, GM will not fix this and I'm not going to pay the dealer $1000 to replace the rear case half I can't afford that.

Matt B.

[SS396]

Matt, sorry about your problems.

Have you checked with a regular repair shop? I just think it will only get worse.

I am fortunate I have mechanical skills so I would fix my own, if you have those skills or know someone who does, that's another option. I don't think it's all that difficult to replace the case half, and a lot cheaper to do it yourself.

Good luck.

[conway]

Courious. I was under the impression that I could use Transynd in the transfer case. Is that correct?

[DmaxMaverick]

Courious. I was under the impression that I could use Transynd in the transfer case. Is that correct?

Transynd is a Dexron III ATF, which is the spec. requirement for the TC. Synthetic ATF is a very good idea for your TC.

[DA BIG ONE]

http://www.transfercases.com/

Got a new NP246 from them at 1/3 rd dealer price!

[NEW2DMAX]

Went on a 400 mile trip with no load and when I returned home and parked the truck for a few hours, later found oil on the floor around rear axle -- after further investagation found that it came from the transfer case and blowed back to the rear of the truck. Looks to be coming from the seam on the passenger side of the case. Changed the fluid to see how much fluid I actually lost drained out 1.5 quarts and fill with new 2.0 quarts cleaned up case and checked to see if the bolts were loose bolts seem to be tight. Went for a 20 mile drive and rechecked for leak and there it was still leaking. Done a search on forum and found that other dmax owners said that thier could be a possible flaw in the case anybody know if GM is working to repair?????????????

[Onebigcanuck]

I meet a chap this summer while having my oil changed, his was leaking and they found a small hole in the case. The dealer said it looked like a casting defect.

[redrider#1]

IIRC, there is a clip that helps hold the pump in place that can break and let the pump rub on the inside of the transfer case eventually causing a tiny hole in the area you have described. Some people have patched it using JB Weld, some have had a welder patch it, others have bought new/used transfer cases since theirs had no fluid in it by the time they found out. I am not sure of the best fix (if there even is one), but try using the search feature and maybe you can get more info. Sorry for the bad news.....

Take a look here......

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=23489&highlight=HOLE+TRANSFER+CASE

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=19716&highlight=HOLE+TRANSFER+CASE

[More Power]

Another member posted some images in This Thread (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=18589) showing what caused the leaks in his transfer case....

Jim

[beeler]

Red and MP have the answer. I discovered mine leaking a couple weeks ago during a oil change. New case half should be here today. Looks to me like JB weld or similar would only be a temporary fix. It would wear through soon without that metal tab to protect it.

[NEW2DMAX]

Well dealer said GM would agree to pay 1/2 the cost to replace the back half of the transfer case -- total cost 750.00 my cost sould be around 325.00 not bad for 3 years out of warrrenty

[redrider#1]

Well, I am glad you got at least some satisfaction out of the resolution and that your dealer is willing to do at least that much for you.

[NEW2DMAX]

Picked up the truck Friday, Told the service dept I wanted to see the damaged case and found the same problem that "newbie" showed in his pictue
I did talk to the service manager and he said to give GM a call and see if they would reimburse me for the 1/2 that I had to pay. Looks like this could be a series problem if not found before a long trip, with in a 50 mile trip I lost about a 1/2 qrt. the case only holds 2 qrts.

[dmaxalliTech]

There is a fix for this problem. GM likely is not aware of it yet though

If the case runs with low/no fluid for any lenght of time, its all done. It dont take long for it to self destruct inside. When tearing it down to replace case half, it needs to be carefully inspected to be sure its repaired properly.

[Heartbeat Hauler]

There is a fix for this problem. GM likely is not aware of it yet though

If the case runs with low/no fluid for any lenght of time, its all done. It dont take long for it to self destruct inside. When tearing it down to replace case half, it needs to be carefully inspected to be sure its repaired properly.
I've got just over 40K on my '01 4x4 3500 so what's the fix? And, is this fix gonna hurt.........cash wise?
JP

[Bmacs]

2002 2500HD with 101,000 miles (just out of warranty) - same thing!!! Just went under to change the oil and noticed ATF ALL OVER the underside of the truck from the transfer case back.

Sure enough - the same pinhole leak as the others (near the third bolt), spitting out ATF like there's no tomorrow. Hopefully, I caught it in time - there was still about 1/2 quart left in the case.

I called GM to start a case number and I will take it to the dealer for diagnosis and write-up.

I will let you all know what happens....

Bill

[More Power]

I wonder if this is related to how often 4WD is used? For example, do those who rarely use 4WD have this problem, compared to those who run in 4WD more?

Jim

[KenR]

I just had this same thing happen to me last week on my 02 2500HD D/A with 148,000 miles. I ended up paying right about $750. for a new tailshaft housing to be installed. I'm VERY interested to see if GM will reimburse anyone for this repair and what the procedure is to get it.

I find it completely unacceptable for a metal clip on the inside of the transfer case to wear a hole through the casting with this amount of time and miles on the truck. Seems like a pretty clear design problem to me and certainly nothing I caused.

By the way, the tech told me that New Process (the transfer case mfg.) knew this was a problem and redesigned the tailshaft housing. He'd seen a lot of trucks with this issue, usually after the transfer case dumped all it's fluid out and locked up.

[beeler]

I wonder if this is related to how often 4WD is used? For example, do those who rarely use 4WD have this problem, compared to those who run in 4WD more?

Jim


Mine started leaking at about 104,000 mi. 4WD is not used often. The rig is a daily driver and 4WD is only used when needed. I actually engage it every now and then just to be sure it works.

[NEW2DMAX]

Picked up the truck Friday, Told the service dept I wanted to see the damaged case and found the same problem that "newbie" showed in his pictue
I did talk to the service manager and he said to give GM a call and see if they would reimburse me for the 1/2 that I had to pay. Looks like this could be a series problem if not found before a long trip, with in a 50 mile trip I lost about a 1/2 qrt. the case only holds 2 qrts.

Will GM would not agree to pay the full cost, guess I'll be happy with them covering 1/2, but I went ahead and changed the transfer case oil again after the case was replaced just to clean out any left over trash that could of been left, and found metal shavings :( I'm going to wait a little awhile and change the transfer fluid again. If metal shaving are found I will contact the service dept. They told me that the case had been redesigned.

[NEW2DMAX]

I just had this same thing happen to me last week on my 02 2500HD D/A with 148,000 miles. I ended up paying right about $750. for a new tailshaft housing to be installed. I'm VERY interested to see if GM will reimburse anyone for this repair and what the procedure is to get it.

I find it completely unacceptable for a metal clip on the inside of the transfer case to wear a hole through the casting with this amount of time and miles on the truck. Seems like a pretty clear design problem to me and certainly nothing I caused.

By the way, the tech told me that New Process (the transfer case mfg.) knew this was a problem and redesigned the tailshaft housing. He'd seen a lot of trucks with this issue, usually after the transfer case dumped all it's fluid out and locked up.
I saw the inside of the case that they removed and it is very obvious it is not just the metal clip. The case had 3 other wear places across from the clip. Looks to be something in the drive line cutting into the case.

[Bmacs]

All,

I'm getting the royal run-around from GM. They are claiming that they've NEVER seen this before and, due to the mileage, are unable to do anything for me.

This is BULL***T - they have a design problem that causes the fluid to drain out and the Transfer Case to self-destruct and they don't let people know!?!?! Then they DENY they have a problem???

I think this may be the end of the road for me and GM...

Incidentally, the stealer wants $2K for the repair!!! He says the inside is all worn due to contact with the case....

[mattb5150]

My 2002 has the same leak fixed with cold weld just did it again today. This is the first new vehcle I've ever owned and the truck has been babied. A month ago I finally got her after the wife put 105k miles on her, we bought the wife a 2005 Z71 Suburban. Now I'm planning to trade the truck on a 2003 and this case leak is one of the reasons. I've heard this was only an iossue with the 01/02 trucks hopefully the 03 I found has the redesigned case.

Matt

[oneton]

Guys, went over to a friend transmission shop this evening to pay him for the tow( He also owns a towing Co.) on my 02 last week. Took me in the back to show me another 02 T-case that was just about shreaded and was bone dry. I mean not a drop of oil in the case. I can't believe the dude didn't here it. Heck when mine started to get low it would growl on downshift and I'm deaf in one ear.


When is GM going to wise up and concede that this is a manufacture defect?




David

[More Power]

Are you talking about the "wear-through" in the rear half of the case we've seen here?

Jim

[MaxACL]

David,

My T Case went dry in KY a few years ago. $3,000 if I remember right. Since then I have heard from a dealer that the factory doesn't always fill the fluids up and depend on the dealer to top them off. Beware.

[KenR]

Well I FINALLY got a response to the letter I wrote to GMC back in September. I had written to them expressing my displeasure at having to pay nearly $800.00 in parts and labor to replace the defective transfer case tail shaft housing on my 2002 K2500HD D/A truck - an issue that is clearly a design/manufacturing defect that's effecting a great number of vehicles.

So, this very nice lady from GMC calls me up today, apologizes for the delay in responding, then asks if I still own the truck. No, I tell her, it was traded in this past November on a new one. "Sorry" she said, "we can't offer any reimbursement on a vehicle you no longer own." So, I asked her, if GMC would've responded in a normal, timely fashion to a letter that was written THREE MONTHS AGO before I traded in the truck I might've seen some kind of reimbursement? "Uh, yes".

Freakin' unbelievable. I guess GM's strategy on these kinds of problems is to just sit on the customers complaint for months until they unload the truck then tell them they won't do anything about it. Total BS.

I'm sure none of the other manufacturers would be any different, but I think it's a chickensh** way of treating customers.

Rant <off>.

[KenR]

See how my discussion with GM went under the thread "Transfer Case Leak?????"

[Arlie]

Many 6.5 engines including mine have siezed because of a quick disconnect on the oil line to the cooler that wears out and pops off. The damage is done before anything is apparent. GM has known about this for years and done nothing to warn owners. This is a $10,000.00 repair. :mad:

I do agree none of the other manufacturers are any better. Their responses are determined by the potential for negative financial impact, and have nothing to do with right and wrong. :(

Arlie

[Spoolmak]

There's a lot of information on this issue from previous posts, but I can't find anything definitive to indicate what years of trucks are affected. Most of the posts deal with 2001, 2002 trucks. Is the broken pump clip wearing a hole into the transfer case still an issue with later models?? I own a 2004 GMC with the Duramax-Allison combination and the push button drive mode selector. Do I need to start saving for the day it happens to me? I'm located in Canada and we sometimes don't get the same dealer response that Stateside owners get. I have 50,000 miles (80,000km) on the truck I've owned since new February 04.
Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge.

[Mark Rinker]

I asked a vendor on Ebay that sells replacement case halfs. Here was their reply to your question:

"They all do from 97 to present. Most get through warranty that is all that concerns GM. They are cast from magnesium with a small thin sheet metal tab to keep the oil pump from wearing a hole. The oil pump wears a hole through the sheet metal

[Arlie]

A number of people here have been told the case was redesigned to correct the problem. If this is not true I'd like to do what's necessary to my '05 TC to prevent the problem. It's a new case waiting to be installed on my 93 conversion project.
Sure would be nice if GM would be up front about this. Anyone got inside information?
Arlie

[Bobo]

I found this and it should fix the problem:

http://www.gmdieseltech.com/store2/cart.php?target=image&action=product_image&product_id=16343

[Spoolmak]

Mark - Thanks for diggin into this. I'm going to my dealership to talk to the guys there about this. They've been good to me in the past. I'll post what I find out.

[mark45678]

Mark - Thanks for diggin into this. I'm going to my dealership to talk to the guys there about this. They've been good to me in the past. I'll post what I find out.


A good friend of mine that used to work for GM parts had the clip on his break about 2 months ago. At that time Gm had over 200 rear case halfs in a local boston area warehouse and just over 50 compleat manual shifted cases in stock. Any that reads in to this and thinks these trucks dont have a small problem is just a little gullalble (sp?). There is a few signs that is happening but its not very long between being able to fix it or trash it. I have not see any aftermarket fixes for the broken clip but it cant be that hard to fix . Keep a eye on the ground in the center of the truck and tailgate for oil drips , the two trucks I looked at had the whole underside of the body coverd with dextron III fluid. One owner heard a bearing noise and saved it the other turned up the radio and got a big bill!

[cowboywildbill]

OK i'm confused. Are the 06 pushbutton cases still built the same with the clips in them, do I need to worry? Or are they redesigned.

[Spoolmak]

I went up to the service department at the GM dealership today and had a long discussion with their manager about this problem. I took up three pictures posted by others on this site. Interestingly enough, neither of the two service writers knew about the problem and called the service manager. He knew about the problem and even took me into the shop area where a defective transfer case had been disassembled to show me the parts and how the leak is created once the clip breaks. (Not the problem with the case they were working on.)
I specifically asked if the design of the case had changed to stop the problem. The answer was 'No' - the same case is still used, despite the problem.

I then asked how often their service department dealt with this problem? He said they had done four replacements of the rear half of the case this last year. Somewhat incredulous, I asked 'Only four?' He responded by saying that it is a problem he is aware of, but that it is rare. He also said that the common thread for the vehicles they fixed was that they were older and had been used hard, either offroad or as a continuously hauling work truck. He said that he thinks it is much more of a problem in extreme climates like 'oilpatch Alberta' where temperatures range from -40 to 100 degrees. I did not feel sufficiently informed to comment on that.

I don't know how many GMC/Chevy , both diesel and gas, trucks are in this area. The city population is 85,000 with another 30,000 in the area. The number of 1999 to 2007 trucks I suspect has to be in the high hundreds. If that is the case, the number of repairs they've done is not high.

Regarding post warranty coverage, his position is based on the miles past warranty expiry driven by the trucks, and that it is a case by case (is that a pun?) decision.

I feel somewhat relieved - but if my case started leaking, that could change in a hurry.

[dmaxalliTech]

I dont have all the pics I want right now for this, but I am going to give everybody an overview.

The problem exists on most all of the new t-cases. Be it a Jimmy, Tahoe, or a one ton dually. As already mentioned, the problem stems from the design.

The operation of the pump is in a nutshell like this. The pump is a floating design, it is aligned primarily with the mainshaft via a brass bushing and is allowed to float in the case using the tabs on the pump into slots in the case. The little clip is designed to take up the movement and dampen it. Problem is that that little spring steel clip takes a beating. Everytime you change load on the engine, that pump moves. On and off the gas is what does it, its not related to foward/reverse like plowing at all. Using 4x4 all the time or not at all means nothing either. The narrow edge on the pump will 'cut' through that clip over time and when the clip is damaged, that allows even more movement and it will start cutting into the case. The magnesium case is softer then the aluminum pump and thats why the case wears. Once the hole starts, its usually high in the case, above the fluid line so it dont leak at a stop or sitting. Only when moving is the pump pumping and this fluid is splashing up. You may never know about the problem until its too late. Usually by the time the problem is found, its too late and expensive repairs are ahead. There is no way of knowing what is damaged inside until its torn down, but most common would be the blocking rings and syncro parts, as well as the mainshaft sleeve. Lots more details on this, but I hope you get the overall view of it.

Now, for the fix. Seeing this problem a bunch of times, I had to figure out how to make it not a problem.

Here is what I came up with, sorry I dont have any side by side pics here. my computer crashed and i lost all of them, but I'll get more up.

http://www.gmdieseltech.com/store2/cart.php?target=image&action=product_image&product_id=16343

What it is is a completely remade pump half, you can see that the tabs are now alot bigger (taller) and thus spread the load out better and prohibit the problem. The OEM pump uses the same tabs, but they are only about .090" tall, mine are .550" tall. This is only one half of the pump, not a complete replacment piece

I'll be getting with More Power in the near future on this and perhaps will be able to show you more detailed info on this as well as an overview on how its installed.

[cowboywildbill]

How much trouble is it to install?

[WhiteTruck]

I don't have a picture either, but this illustration of a pump is to scale and you can see how thin the tabs are that dmaxallitech is talking about.

[SoTxPollock]

dmaxalliTech, any success in getting with MP about this problem. I'm starting to get worried. I've got 95,000 miles on mine now. Was reading through the shop manual(Helms) and the part about needing two people to get the case out of the vehicle doesn't sound like fun for one person, but I'm starting to think I may have to make a trip up your way when the weather thaws and let you put your new part in just as prevention of future failure. Once the case is worn into its too late. Let us know. I know so little about Magnesium and what if anything could be done to harden that area of the case against wear.
How does New Process get away with selling cases to GM that are known to fail sooner or later? Why buy a truck with an engine that can go for years to only have to replace everything else that breaks pretty often. I can identify with some of the guys that have had this problem already. The amount of posts on this is pretty amazing.

[DeepVee]

Mine just popped a hole, 2001 w/66,800 miles. I noticed fluid on the garage floor and crawled under the truck to find ATF all over the transfer case and a small hole in the typical location. Mine was only 1/2 quart low on fluid so I think I saved the internals. I called GM first thing this morning and have the truck at the dealer so we'll see what they say; hopefully I can get some form of compensation.

[DeepVee]

I just got word back from GM and the dealer, they'll cover the repair of my transfer case but I have to pay a $300 deductible. Basically I'll be paying for the parts and they'll cover the labor. I'm happy since the parts would have cost me around $400 if I had fixed it myself, plus it won't cost me more $$$ if they find damage inside.

[cowboywildbill]

I just dropped off my car at the Dealer for some warranty work, and the Head of the "large" service Dept drove my car to see what the issue's were, while I rode along. We were talking about trucks and I mentioned about the transfer case problems. He was well aware of the problem. He said that sometimes they would go ahead and fix stuff that was way out of warranty for really good customers, like fleet type buyers or a business that bought several vehicles from them every year. The dealership apparently absorbed the cost. The customer assumed the repair was done under factory warranty.
I asked him why GM didn't fix the washer/spacer that caused the failure, he said that he was under the impression that GM purchased the transfer cases from a supplier like they do the rears and axels, and didn't actually build the transfer cases. And most of the failures were after the warranty had already run out. He said that he was amazed that the suppliers hadn't taken care of the poor design, since it wouldn't cost that much. Chances are even that part is bought by the supplier from someone else also, just like the bearings and seals. Makes you wonder.

[SoTxPollock]

Its called OUTSOURCING. Everybody does it to try and get ahead of the competition. Instead of building it themselves, they find someone who makes the same product and try to get them to supply it at a lower cost. Most everyone finds out after a few years of this, that their costs of replacement and warranty repairs, and late shipments, etc., turns out the other guys aren't any less expensive than they were to start with. Unfortunately all top management has to actually experience it before they will finally accept it as fact. The guys you train to build your product will do better than anyone else can that you didn't train, if you're the best at what you do. Come on America, Wake up! Cheap labor isn't so cheap after all, not when you look at the lost opportunity costs. There is no excuse to continue to do business with someone who continues to build an inferior(ms I think) prone to break product. IMHO

[cowboywildbill]

I couldn't have said it better. You hit the nail on the head. Too bad we couldn't send a group letter to the people that build the cases. And tell them what they need to do and how they are failing.

[DeereJohn]

Q: what's the opinion of using oil analysis to predict a potential failure?

[cowboywildbill]

Good point, I wonder if a good synthetic like trasynd would curb some of the wear? I had refilled our t-case on our 02 with transynd when I did the deep pan and fill.

[Nels]

I just finished reading this entire thread, and it seems I can now look forward to the same issue sooner or later with my '01 D/A. I have no visible symptoms yet, but with 93,000 miles on the truck I look it over much more carefully each time I get it up on the rack. I am sensitive to the TC issue, as I had to replace a granaded TC on my '96 2500 Silverado before I bought the Duramax. In that case, a 2 cent snap ring failed and allowd the gear cluster to wander aimlessly on the shaft. It eventually slid into the mating cluster at highway speed and made some very expensive noises. There were 48,000 miles on the clock at that point. The repair estimate was nearly $1400. I politely but firmly reminded the service manager that this was the third new vehicle I had purchased from that dealership, and he already knew that I had it regularly serviced by his team. There was nothing that I did to the truck that could possibly have caused such damage. I asked him to call GM and find out WHAT (not IF) GM was going to do about it. I still ended up with nearly $600 out of pocket though. Alas, the same ordeal may be in the future again. The Toyota Tundra is looking better all the time.

[Idle_Chatter]

Hey, Nels, how's the family? Long time since we had brats and kicked tires. Only 93,000 miles? I turned 141,400 on my 2001 this afternoon. You think worrying about the transfer case is bad? I'm waiting for the transfer case, the waterpump, the alternator and the injectors to go any second - they are all "overdue" according to all I've been told and read. Fortunately, the DMax and I are too stupid to know we are old, obsolete and broken - so we just keep ticking along at 17.4 mpg average, fat dumb and happy!

[tufcj]

Got back from a round trip Chicago-Denver yesterday. The tailgate, camper shell, trailer and vehicle on the trailer have a misting of ATF on them. Puddle under the middle of the vehicle after sitting over night. I slid under it, and the oil on the frame starts at the t-case, so I suspect this is the problem. I also noticed a lot of ATF in the tranny cooler forward of the tank. One thing I noticed was the tranny temp ran about 20-30 degrees hotter at the end of the ride home.

Mine is a 2003 D/A with 69K miles.

Bob
tufcj

[DmaxMaverick]

Got back from a round trip Chicago-Denver yesterday. The tailgate, camper shell, trailer and vehicle on the trailer have a misting of ATF on them. Puddle under the middle of the vehicle after sitting over night. I slid under it, and the oil on the frame starts at the t-case, so I suspect this is the problem. I also noticed a lot of ATF in the tranny cooler forward of the tank. One thing I noticed was the tranny temp ran about 20-30 degrees hotter at the end of the ride home.

Mine is a 2003 D/A with 69K miles.

Bob
tufcj

Your leak may be the TC. Clean it up and find the source. If it's still leaking, there's hope (it's not empty). Your tranny temps should not be effected by a TC leak, until things start binding (increased load). Your tranny temp increase likely came from somewhere else. If you do have the TC leak/hole, fix it ASAP. Drive it dry, and you'll need to repair/replace more than just the housing and pump plate.

The cooler in front of the tank is the fuel cooler. The ATF cooler is behind the grill.

[tufcj]

Slid under it on Tuesday, after recovering from the trip on Monday. Pulled the fill flug on the t-case, and put in a little less than 1.5 quarts of ATF, so it wasn't completely empty, but close. :eek: Sprayed the underside with super clean and pressure washed it down. Drove it to work on Wed-Thu, and I do see a couple of drips where I park it, but not much. No noise, so hopefully the case is OK. I didn't notice any fluid on the tailgate when I arrived in Denver, only when I got back to Chicago.

The next questions.

Can the back half be changed in the vehicle, or does the case have to be pulled?

If I have to pull the case, does the crossmember for the torsion bars have to come out?

Best place to get the case and the pump upgrade that's listed here.

I've done a couple of 235s from Jeeps, so I'm no stranger to t-cases. If I have to do this, I'd just like to do it once, do it right, and be done with it.

Bob
tufcj

[More Power]

It might be possible to pull the rear case half only, without pulling the entire transfer case out of the truck, but it would actually make more work for you. Disassembly and then re-assembly just about has to be done with the transfer case sitting vertically on its front flange.

Rear case halves are available, and I'd install the Merchant pump upgrade to prevent this from happening again.

Jim

[Kennedy]

I've done a half dozen or so of these now as preventive maintenance. All had the OE clip still in place and no apparent sign of wear. For the price ($50) for the little wear plate I will not drop a transfer case without installing one.

[Inspector]

I have had the T-case on my 93 apart a couple of times. It is not rocket science. These are easy to repair. As MP said the case needs to be verticle so all the shafts stay aligned when putting the back case back in place. If you are going into the case any farther than the back case you will need a good set of snap ring pliers.
My 03 hasn't shown any signs of leakage as of yet but it is somthing that I keep a close eye on.
Denny

[Ranger354]

After searching for two days and 2 qts of fluid I found a pin hole in the side of me T case today. Dealer said the swap out will be a little under two grand. I talked with a reputable trnamissiion shop and they just happen to be doing the same thing on a vehicle. the Trany shop price was a little over 2 grand.

Next time I buy a chevy (if I buy a chevy) I will get an extended warranty. This is BS. Two front hubs in the last three months and now a T-case with less the 90,000 miles.

They sure make Ford better and better looking....................

[More Power]

I was under the impression that welding magnesium was not possible, I saw recently a discussion about welding a variety of materials, which included magnesium. So, I did a google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=welding+magnesium&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1), which would suggest it is possible when using a TIG welder. If you can weld magnesium, it would reduce the cost of a leaking t-case considerably.

Any welders in the group who know more?

Jim

[a5150nut]

I was under the impression that welding magnesium was not possible, I saw recently a discussion about welding a variety of materials, which included magnesium. So, I did a google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=welding+magnesium&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1), which would suggest it is possible when using a TIG welder. If you can weld magnesium, it would reduce the cost of a leaking t-case considerably.

Any welders in the group who know more?

Jim

I remember when I was a kid and the local fair was in town. The local volunteer fire dept. was putting on an exhibition on magnesium fires. Someone tried to put it out with water when it got into their barrels of extra material. Kinda reminded me of the 4th of July! :eek:

But I did have a neighbor who claimed he had welded aluminum to stainless. Had to use a vibrating table at just the right frequency. So I guess anything is possible.

[Ranger354]

Was told today (after I picked up my truck) that one the welders at our Plant had a Bad Ass machine that could weld anything. Sure wish I had known sooner. I would have let him try. I heard that he has welded on many trannies and engine blocks.

[Ranger354]

Well I made it all of 30 miles and heard some noise. On the way home from work i got about a mile and lost power. I think the brand new second hand rebuilt T case blew. It sits tonight at the dealer. Guess I will know more tomorrow.

[Ranger354]

I got my truck back from the dealer's shop yesterday. They gave me a Ford CC 1/2 ton to drive over the weekend. I will never buy one of those. Anyway, so far so good. I plan to put some miles on the 2nd new rebuilt T case tomorrow and see if she will hold up.

Been looking for any service bulletins on the (2004) T Case.

[Willcoc]

Earlier this year, the pin hole developed in my case. Ordered the parts and had a local mechanic do the work. We did install the Kennedy part to keep it from hapening again. Just to test, I took it to a facility that does mag casting work. Since the casting are not perfect (fan blades), they do weld repairs. He was able to seal the hole in the case. Unless you know where to look, don't even notice it. If anybody is intersted, cover shipping and it is yours... had ~96K miles when this took place.

[italian ice]

We have a 2003 Yukon XL, 2500 6.0 used for towing our offshore boat. The truck has 62,000 miles, it was used as my wife's daily driver for the first three years owned. Now it just goes on vacations, boat towing and snow storms.

About 3 weeks ago I discovered a noise, sounded like a dry U-joint. On 12/14 the local Chevy dealer accurately diagnosed the problem and told me that they had seen the problem before, loss of fluid due to hole caused by internal failure. "Needs new case, estimate to start is $1,326.00 estimate doesn't include internal failure may be higher once taken apart". The service tech said it could be a couple hundred more, depending on what they find on disassembly.

I made a service appointment for Monday the 17th. at the GMC dealer where I purchased this vehicle (and three others in the past 6 years). Over the weekend I did my research and found this thread. I printed the entire thread for the Service Manager and took it and my truck to my dealer on the 17th. I also called GM Customer Support the same day, and explained the entire story and as much as I could relate about all 30-some others of you in this thread who had the same issue. GM Customer Support rep told me he would call me on Tuesday afternoon with a response, but no promises given. By mid-day on Tuesday the Service Manager called to tell me the repair would cost $3,400. I knew he had been in contact with GM Customer Support. He went on to say that it would all be covered except for the Illinois Sales Tax on the parts, or $100 - $150.

The Service Manager mentioned how well maintained my vehicle was and it seemed that we recently started getting the vehicle serviced elsewhere. He said he wanted us back as a service customer and "recommended" the 60,000 mile maintenance package. It was hard to say no when he just told me my repair bill would almost be paid in full. The parts were ordered and it looks like I'll be lucky if I get it back by Friday. More likely next week after the holiday.

The GM Support person said it was good that I called while the truck was there and they could work directly with the dealer before the repairs were completed.

I'll post an update when I get the truck back.

[Ranger354]

What number did you call at GM. Maybe I can get back some of the $2,200 I spent on a rebuilt one at the dealer here.

Hope all goes well.

I got a letter in the mail this weekend stating that some GM customers have had problems with the speedometer and guages. If I have a problem with these items on my truck I was to take it to the dealer along with the letter. Well, I have not had any problems with the speedometer and guages, but I have the front hubs.

Wonder when I will get the front hub letter????????

[italian ice]

Ranger, the number I dialed is 800 462-8782. Best of luck to you.

[More Power]

Earlier this year, the pin hole developed in my case. Ordered the parts and had a local mechanic do the work. We did install the Kennedy part to keep it from hapening again. Just to test, I took it to a facility that does mag casting work. Since the casting are not perfect (fan blades), they do weld repairs. He was able to seal the hole in the case. Unless you know where to look, don't even notice it. If anybody is intersted, cover shipping and it is yours... had ~96K miles when this took place.

Thanks for your post. Could you list the contact information for the shop that does the magnesium welding? Thanks!

Jim

[Kennedy]

I finally got around to listing a details page for the plate that I sell. The mfr states that JB Weld does well although I'd prefer a new or welded case. If I were to do the JB thing, I'd be sure to extrude some through the hole so there was a bit inside and out to hold fast.


Plate details:

http://www.kennedydiesel.com/detail.cfm?ID=511

[linchhummmer]

auto track ii is just blue dexron so when your seal gose out you can see it turn red it dosent matter what you put in it dexron is probablye a little cheaper

[linchhummmer]

the exact same thing happed to my 01 lb7 i got a small hole in the tcase and the fluid leaked out and the truck sat in the shop for like a month before i went and picked up and just drove with some jb weld over the hole but they told me that sh!t off the road hit it and did it, it was probably the same thing that happened to yours that happened to mine

[DmaxMaverick]

auto track ii is just blue dexron so when your seal gose out you can see it turn red it dosent matter what you put in it dexron is probablye a little cheaper

How many TC's do you want to buy? Bad advice. Autotrac II fluid IS NOT just blue Dexron. The Autotrac TC's have unique requirements of the fluid. Unlike traditional TC's, they have active syncro's and slipper clutch friction surfaces. Some premium synthetic ATF's claim to be compatible with Autotrac II fluid, but most do not. Put Dexron in your Autotrac if you want, but don't advise others to do the same unless you are offering a warranty with the advice.

[fats chevy]

I know of a dealer that does 2 a month. I got my hands on service information (bulletin), after I replaced the rear case. '98-'07 equipped with New Venture Gear TC RPO NP1, NP2, NP3 ,NP4, NP8. Will attach Doc. later.
the exact same thing happed to my 01 lb7 i got a small hole in the tcase and the fluid leaked out and the truck sat in the shop for like a month before i went and picked up and just drove with some jb weld over the hole but they told me that sh!t off the road hit it and did it, it was probably the same thing that happened to yours that happened to mine

[DA BIG ONE]

How many TC's do you want to buy? Bad advice. Autotrac II fluid IS NOT just blue Dexron. The Autotrac TC's have unique requirements of the fluid. Unlike traditional TC's, they have active syncro's and slipper clutch friction surfaces. Some premium synthetic ATF's claim to be compatible with Autotrac II fluid, but most do not. Put Dexron in your Autotrac if you want, but don't advise others to do the same unless you are offering a warranty with the advice.

DM, I had replaced my NP 246 AutoTrac w/new unit. I was informed that I can use full synthetic by seller, not being sure I contacted the manufacture of the unit and an engineer confirmed it was ok to use the synthetic fluid. Nowhere in the packaging was there any reference to any special fluids like Autotrac II just reminder to make sure to fill unit.

I have wondered about the clutches needing some friction inhibitors but now after your post I'm concerned about the synthetic fluid I'm running, am I asking for trouble, or?

[DmaxMaverick]

If you are using a quality synthetic, it's probably be OK. I was referring to the labels of the synthetic brands. I've seen the result of dino ATF in a 246, and it wasn't pretty. The clutch surfaces were coked, and the syncro's were scored pretty bad. I suspect dino fluid fails at the temp of the friction surfaces during operation. Much like a failing auto tranny when it starts to slip, the fluid gets cooked in the hot spots. I know of a few using Amsoil and Mobil 1 synthetic, and they seem to be fine. Contact the supplier of your fluid to confirm compatibility, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

[More Power]

A new article was uploaded to the web site a couple of days ago that relates to this subject - of preventing a transfer case fluid leak... :)

http://www.thedieselpage.com/reviews/tcase.htm

Jim

[townecho]

I just got word back from GM and the dealer, they'll cover the repair of my transfer case but I have to pay a $300 deductible. Basically I'll be paying for the parts and they'll cover the labor. I'm happy since the parts would have cost me around $400 if I had fixed it myself, plus it won't cost me more $$$ if they find damage inside.
deep vee,did you deal with chevy or gm dealer in flagstaff?mine just p.h.ed at 160k.initial visit with chevy dealer was retail minus 10%.1/2 million miles should not happen.just the presence of the shield indicates a problem with tolerances.

[AverageGuy]

This pump leak repair will eventually be paid for by GM. Here is how this works. Years...perhaps months from now, a lawsuit will occur over the tens of thousands of people who will have to have this repair done on their transfer cases, and GM will admit to this issue in court, and be forced to pay for the damages it caused. They already know this, but will stall paying until they get sued.

They did this on the 3.8 liter GM engine with plastic intake manifold, but it came years afterwords, and guess what??? By then the number of people who saved their receipts had long since lost the receipts or canceled checks which they used to pay for the repair.

SO DOCUMENT YOUR REPAIRS FILE THE RECEIPTS AND WAIT FOR THE NOTICE FROM LAWYERS WHO WILL CONTACT YOU VIA YOUR VIN NUMBER.

I know this sucks, but at least you will get most of the money back someday....if you took care to save the repair receipt and date time it was repaired, and saved the cancelled check or credit card showing who and for what it was for.

This is the new corporate game played by all the manufacturers. If you deny that it is happening until they get a good class action suit against them then years from now they pay, but know that it will be so far out that most people won't bother or won't have the evidence that they had to have it done.

Be smart and be prepared. I know I learned....from the 3.8 liter engine deal and I will never discard a receipt for this type of repair again.

[Duraswede]

i have the same problem, a little hole in the case.. i filled it up and it leaked out within a month, only while driving, so i cleaned the surface around the hole and sealed it with "chemical metal" it was OK for a week but now i see that it's leaking again, so i wonder if ther's any pressure behind this hole? is there an oil pump there that builds up pressure?
and what does a new rear case casting cost? is it possible to replace without taking down the transfer case from the truck?

[afksman]

First, thank you all for the long-long thread that is full of information on this TFC leak.
I have an 03 Z71 (sorry its gas, all I could afford back then) with 135,500+ miles. For the past month I’ve been hearing a strange sound, Sort of like a U-joint with a bunch of twine wrapped around it. Today I had the truck up on the lift doing a complete underside fluid change. To my horror the TFC was bone dry with no evidence of leakage (or metal shavings from what I could see). After servicicing I did my normal 1/2 mile drive-stopped and looked underneath I was seeing ATF drip from the TFC. My first thought was somehow in my rush to finish up I may not have fully tighted the fill port, nope it was dry. I could not see where it was coming from. After reading this thread I now know why, not leaking when stopped). When I got home and looked up under there, wow!! for those of you who may have turn wrenches on leaky military birds, it looked like the underside of 130's wing. I found the little hole and came to this forum to search for an answer.

I have the NVG 263 TFC.

Question, I've never worked on a TFC, but I am an A&P with 18+ years of turning wrenches so I’m not too scared to tear into it. Will I need special tools for the repair and installation of the Adapt-A-Case fix? Does anyone have a list of consumable parts such as seals or internal parts that need to be replaced once the case is split? This truck is my only transportation and once it goes down for maint I have no way of making a trip back to the parts store for that "oops, I forgot" part. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edwin in Kansas

[More Power]

Other than a seal driver and a jack to hold up the transmission, a typical well-equipped tool box should be sufficient. Get a buddy to help with the R&R. ;)

Driving in a new output shaft seal can dislodge the circular spring surrounding the lip-seal if you're not careful. It's got to be in-place to seal correctly.


Transfer Case Adapter Housing Gasket (you'll need a new one, they usally break when separating the transfer case from the trans)
Rear Output Shaft Bushing (replace if this is a high-mile truck)
Rear Output Shaft Seal (replace if >50K miles)
Silcone RTV gasket sealer
Brake cleanerJim

[afksman]

More Power, thanks for the info. I'll go out to the net and order that part from kennedy diesel. I did some research and have found that other than the weight (two person or jack) this is a pretty strait fwd job. I'm putting a JB weld bandaid on today to stop the bleeding until I get the part and can put the truck down for maint.

Thanks again.
Aim High U.S. Air Force

[todd.walter]

I had (have) the same problem on my '03. The previous owner had done a JB Weld repair that had peeled off. I think the constant pressure/vibration from the pump is what causes the JB weld to peel. I cleaned up the case down to bare metal (used a dremel with a sanding attachment around the hole). I also got some black RTV and did a little patch right on the hole first. This is partly to help seal but is really intended to provide a shock absorber between the pump and the JB Weld. After the RTV set I applied JB Weld over the clean and prep'd metal. Now the pump vibrates on the RTV and the JB Weld holds the RTV in place. It has worked well for over a year (although I developed a hole from one of the other pump tab points and had to do a second repair for the second hole). Some day I need to replace the back case half but till I find that lotto ticket I just keep an eye on the box and check the level frequently.

[KrazyNate]

105k on my 02.. Thank God I noticed it before catastrophe.. Ironically, I replaced the output shaft seal about 15k ago, and a complete fluid service about 5k ago and noticed no abnormal ATF since doing the seal. Im guessing its relatively new leak at this point.. :mad:
It looks painfully obvious that GM is playing dumb for most of you on this one, so my problem at this point is that its Saturday morning, and no shops are open to take my complaint.. I need this pick up tomorrow and am going for the JB redneck fix.. Do you think this will detour a possible GM or dealer coverage of cost when I take it in next week? :o

Been pretty unlucky with my Dirty, but it is soooo nice to drive.. :D

[hrsedrvr]

i too have that problem, i was recently to the allison dealer for trans service( rear case cracked $1300.00 later) and they told me about the little hole in the transfer case. they said it is common and caused by the small pump inside which is mounted on a couple studs and it will come loose and move around and eventually wear a hole in the case. they said it cannot be welded becuse the case is magnesium. estimated cost to repair is $1500.00 but they said as long as it's kept topped up it will last

also i am beginning to get trans slip if i start off hard throttle when it shifts to second it's like neutral untill you let off some. is this the beginning of the end?

[More Power]

When researching this problem I learned that magnesium can be welded, but not by just anyone. The metal has to be heated, melted and new material added just at the right temp point. Too high of temp and it'll combust. I've read that burning magnesium can be quenched in a bucket of water.

If anyone knows of a good magesium welder, post their contact info here. ;)

Jim

[todd.walter]

I hope you are kidding about extinguishing burning magnesium with water. It burns too hot and will actually split the water into hydrogen and oxgen. These will then explode (forming water again).

As a side note. I eventually pulled my T-Case and rebuilt it (chewed up shift forks were causing it to jump out of gear). When I replaced the back half of the case I found a THIRD hole that had formed (after I JB Welded the first two). I put in a Kennedy setup to prevent a repeat on the new back case half when I reassembed the case. The JB Weld (with RTV underneath) held for a lot of miles but once I had one hole the oil pump kept working it's way through the rest of the case over time.

[More Power]

You are correct. Water should not be sprayed on a magesium fire. I remember reading about mag welding some time ago, and the author recommended a bucket large enough for total immersion as a suitable fire extinguisher for magnesium. I couldn't locate that page now, but I did find the following at this link (http://compass.seacadets.org/pdf/nrtc/an/14014_ch12.pdf).


Class D [fires]
Class D fires are combustible metals, such as magnesium and titanium. Water in large quantities, as high velocity fog, is the recommended extinguishing agent. When water is applied to buring class D materials, there may be small explosions. The fire fighter should apply water from a safe distance or from behind shelter. Metal fires on board ships are commonly associated with aircraft wheel structures.

So, what do commercial welding shops do when they have a magnesium fire?

My final word... Unless you're a trained professional, I don't recommend anyone attempt to weld magnesium. ;)

Jim

[Xmas1]

I recently lost the output shaft bushing on my transfer case and lost all the fluid. When I drained the fluid I only got about 4-5 TBL spoons of oil, and some metal. I decide just to replace the Transfer case with a rebuilt one from GM. It took 5 days to get it in, $1,230.00 and I needed the truck so I was ready to install that night. When I picked it up I noticed that the rebuild had (you guessed it) an epoxy repaired rear case. It turns out that the rebuilds aren't even from GM they came from a repair shop in IL. I called both the repair shop and GM and it's considered a certified repair to fix the case with epoxy. I considered sending it back for another one but I would probably only get another epoxy fix after waiting another week.
The rebuilds do have the update kits in them but I'm not crazy about the repaired case. It's just something else to worry about. There is a 24 month waranty but it still doesn't sit well with me. I've decided to keep my old case and rebuild it myself and take the hit on the core cost.
Has anyone else noticed the epoxy repair on what's considered a rebuild?

[Willcoc]

I purchased a new half of a case for my 01. Then took the one to shop to have the hole welded shut. Looks good but don't really need it now. If anybody would like this case, cover shipping cost and it is yours. Send me a PM if you would like it.

[mattb5150]

I'd like to have your welded case half, check your PM.

Matt

[Hawker]

Well it appears I have joined the masses (hundreds of thousands) of GM transfer case owners which have the famous pinhole leak on the right side of the tail shaft case and after much investigation happens to be a NV246. Thanks for putting all this information on the board here it really educated me about this issue!:D

My 1999 GM Suburban has 160,000 and I noticed a sound like a hub cap popping at about 25 mph a few weeks ago. The noise got irritating to the point I removed the outer rings on each wheel no luck. I put the vehicle up on 4 jack stands and put it in drive (transfer case chain noise) opened the drain plug and completely dry. Just had it checked at the dealer on the last oil change and it was full I found part of a broken metal clip?

I used JB weld as a temporary patch when I found the hole after refilling the case and replacing the tail sahft seal for the 5th time since owning it. I had no problems with the JB Weld going on three weeks but after reading all the post here I elected to get a rebuild from GM.

I contacted GM @ 1-866-453-4123 asking about this issue and what was done to resolve it. I was assured that if there was a hole found on the rebuild they would replace the tail shaft case in the rebuilding process. Parts guy at GM dealer was also told this.

Well I got my rebuild transfer case today and already being aware of why GM has gone belly up with continued lies lies lies. I immediately found the epoxy patch GM did and it was found in exact same location as the one I was replacing. :eek: I was pissed about this and so was the parts guy. :mad: I asked if the dealer could simply remove the tail shaft on the rebuild and send it back to GM to shove up GM's lying A#$h)les. Parts boss said no dice but I was given the option to spend another $400.00 for a new tail shaft case to go with the rebuild. Parts guy said he was posting a notice on their parts network advising all local area dealers what GM was doing. Other members of this board warned of this in other post of this very subject and I thank you!

It really does not matter in my opinion GM has burn't both ends of the candle by short changing customers for years with shoddy workmanship and crap like this. GM also tried to hide this patch by repainting the case with thick silver paint so it is hard to find unless you have patched the transfer case yourself and know where to look. :(

I now had two choices today after getting the rebuilt case. I could elect to keep my existing transfer case and replace the tail shaft case with the aftermarket part through Kennedy Diesel I bought. Or I could just install the so called rebuilt case I purchased through GM? Hmm :confused:

I reluctantly went with the rebuilt case today because of the warranty. I did ask the dealer to install the Kennedy spacer of which GM advised me would not affect the warranty. The dealer was impressed with the part as it fit exactly as shown on Kennedy Diesel site. :D

What is also interesting is that when the mechanics at the dealer separated the rebuilt case the same clip was found in the exact location where that patch was. I was there and witnessed this. I had removed the old clip and compared it to the new one. Nothing changed and another lie by GM. An advisory on the part list from the dealer advises this clip needs to be purchased in addtion to the rebilt case? Whoa how screwed up is GM selling the same clip not only included in the transfer case but advising you need to purchase another one? :confused:


Nope as for me I will never buy a GM again And I have been driving GM for over thirty years. GM is crying out to everyone they are reinvented?
GM is just remastering the art of BS. :mad:

[Hawker]

Well you are correct about the lawsuit on the GM 3.8 I turned in my paper work well before the deadline last Oct. 2008 on my buick century. I have heard nothing. Went to the Gibbs law office that filed suit. They sent me a genric message that basically I read between the lines that say I ain't gettin nothing Gibbs got paid but Iwill not. GM now bankrupt oh so sorry.



This pump leak repair will eventually be paid for by GM. Here is how this works. Years...perhaps months from now, a lawsuit will occur over the tens of thousands of people who will have to have this repair done on their transfer cases, and GM will admit to this issue in court, and be forced to pay for the damages it caused. They already know this, but will stall paying until they get sued.

They did this on the 3.8 liter GM engine with plastic intake manifold, but it came years afterwords, and guess what??? By then the number of people who saved their receipts had long since lost the receipts or canceled checks which they used to pay for the repair.

SO DOCUMENT YOUR REPAIRS FILE THE RECEIPTS AND WAIT FOR THE NOTICE FROM LAWYERS WHO WILL CONTACT YOU VIA YOUR VIN NUMBER.

I know this sucks, but at least you will get most of the money back someday....if you took care to save the repair receipt and date time it was repaired, and saved the cancelled check or credit card showing who and for what it was for.

This is the new corporate game played by all the manufacturers. If you deny that it is happening until they get a good class action suit against them then years from now they pay, but know that it will be so far out that most people won't bother or won't have the evidence that they had to have it done.

Be smart and be prepared. I know I learned....from the 3.8 liter engine deal and I will never discard a receipt for this type of repair again.

[Hawker]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090628/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gm_bankruptcy

Maybe hope for all us transfer case leak folks hold onto your receipts!!!! Calling all lawyers!!!


Moderator can you put this up as a new thread? I seem to have difficulty navigating te site
Thanks!

[JohnC]

Maybe hope for all us transfer case leak folks hold onto your receipts!!!! Calling all lawyers!!!


Only if it's new. From the afore mentioned article: "GM wants to sell the bulk of its assets to a new company and leave behind unprofitable assets and other liabilities such as product-related lawsuits... 'New GM' will not assume liability for already pending claims against the automaker and those people will still be forced to seek compensation from 'Old GM.'."

[More Power]

Well I got my rebuild transfer case today and already being aware of why GM has gone belly up with continued lies lies lies. I immediately found the epoxy patch GM did and it was found in exact same location as the one I was replacing. I was pissed about this and so was the parts guy. :mad:

How did you determine the repair was epoxy? A welded case might "appear" to have been epoxied, especially if the case had been painted. Just curious...

Jim

[mattb5150]

If I order a new case half and have a shop replace it and install the part I bought from Kennedy are there any other parts to order from GM with the case, seals etc. that are necessary to do the job correctly?

Matt

[EdSpaek]

Guys

Curious

We have a fleet of the 2008 Silverado 2500HD's 4x4's with the Allison trans- is this year protected from the transfer case issues ?

[Hawker]

How did you determine the repair was epoxy? A welded case might "appear" to have been epoxied, especially if the case had been painted. Just curious...

Jim

Not a problem Jim :) it was obviously not a weld because when I saw the spot it was a smear. When we (dealership and I) split the case apart it had the same consistency and was obviously "pushed" into the hole. I am not a certified welder but have been around enough and worked with several epoxy compounds such as "unitex" to know the difference.

I had two other mechanics and the shop manager inspect the rebuilt case also they came to the same conclusion and have notified other dealers affliated with the Hendricks name what GM is doing. I elected to reveal the dealership owners because I trust them and have done business with them for years. Although apologetic they said there hands where tied regardless.

This besides the fact I had talked with the engineer at GM who was very familiar with the problem "assured" me on at least two seperate occassions in my conversation with him before I bought the rebuild new tail shaft cases where to replace the ones with holes when rebuilt.

Well see how the warranty works out with the in between old GM and new GM and how Barry Obama plans to honor my warranty should the transfer case fail within the 3 year 100,000 mile warranty:confused:

[Hawker]

Guys

Curious

We have a fleet of the 2008 Silverado 2500HD's 4x4's with the Allison trans- is this year protected from the transfer case issues ?

Is your fleet still under warranty? If your transfer case is due for a fluid change have a mechanic probe the hole with a telescopic magnet after the fluid drains out or in some cases it just falls out while the fluid is draining, this is how I partially found my problem if the clip has broken it usually goes to this area as the pickup magnet in the case may grab it. If you are replacing rear tail shaft seals now make sure you check the right side upper part of the case for fluid or dirt tracking. View the photos on the Kennedy site carefully it takes a few veiwings but becomes more clear to those us who have made temp patches. If you see the clip parts come out in the fluid or extract part of it with a magnet it is only a matter of time before a hole is bored through the case and it will happen no doubt.

If you find broken clip pieces dealers are all to familiar with the problem. Ask the dealer to replace it under warranty? I can tell you GM goodwill is no longer paying for anything. You might try to buy the Kennedy spacer ask the dealer to install it in place of a new GM clip design. You should not have to worry about it after that.

I have found out from another GM mechanic that as far as the clip design goes all GM did? They curled the ends of the steel clips. The steel clip is the same gauge depth as the old one. Look at the old design on the Kennedy photos.

The tech bulletin from GM advises the parts counter to sell this clip with each rebuilt case as I mentioned in my previous post. God love'em GM does anything to sqeeze out every dime from the customer!

[Hawker]

If I order a new case half and have a shop replace it and install the part I bought from Kennedy are there any other parts to order from GM with the case, seals etc. that are necessary to do the job correctly?

Matt


Yes you will need a retention clip for the front drive shaft and a gasket that goes between the transmission and the case housing. If they try to sell you the clip with the case housing that cost around 8 bucks tell them to make a key ring out of it. On second thought do not make a key ring out of it because you will most likely lose your keys when it breaks:p

[Hawker]

Only if it's new. From the afore mentioned article: "GM wants to sell the bulk of its assets to a new company and leave behind unprofitable assets and other liabilities such as product-related lawsuits... 'New GM' will not assume liability for already pending claims against the automaker and those people will still be forced to seek compensation from 'Old GM.'."


Ok dash my hopes:o. Anyway it appears by July 10, 2009 that if GM does not get the bankruptcy court to agree to give all the equipment, robots etc. to the New GM, Barry is going to get upset and slam his bedroom door on any future funding for GM and GM will be gone.

Yea I know it will not happen because the U.S. bailed out GM and will not going to let them go under. The U.S. bailing out GM was a huge mistake and in my opinion and still is.

[mattb5150]

Thanks Hawker,

Any idea of part numbers for the retention clip and gasket?

Matt

[Hawker]

Best if you call the dealer with your vin number. From there they can look up you transfer case. The boot clips and gaskets differ on a few of them. Lucky I was at the dealer I bought the parts over the counter and carried them to the mechanic saved me naywhere form 15% -30% parts markup.

[mattb5150]

Bought the new case half and had it installed today. I have the old case half if anyone would like to have it welded.

Matt

[More Power]

I received an email from a 2500HD owner recently who's transfer case also suffered from the wear-through leak failure. He had read this thread, and ordered a replacement rear case half from one of the vendors mentioned - along with the new aftermarket part that will prevent the wear-through from re-occurring.

Problem was, his truck was not powered by a Duramax - his truck had a gas engine. The gas powered trucks use a 261/263 transfer case, but have a different rear case half because the rear driveshaft yoke is smaller (probably a 1350 u-joint, instead of the 1410 used behind the diesel).

Just an FYI....

Jim

[mastertech]

The case of the wear is from a keeper that is attached to the oil pump that is in the tcase it vibrates and cases a hole in the case the fix is a new half and a readvised keeper to correct the concern or problem

[SoTxPollock]

Anyone who used JB Weld on the transfer case, I'd like to know how long you've been running like that and how long do you think that fix will last?

I spotted a leak on the garage floor and started watching it for a while and finally last week-end found the wear thru hole about say 1/8" wide and 1/8" long. Needed to use the truck, so I went for the JB weld fix. I bought the one that said it's good to 600 degrees F. so I know it won't turn loose because of heat. I cleaned the area with denatured Alcohol and use an old tooth brush on my electrice tooth brush. Kept reapplying the Alcohol while running the tooth brush over the area till it was nice and shiny. I then took a dime and ground it across to where it would fit in the area, thinking it would supply some reinforcement in the long direction of the dime agaist where the oil pump tab was wearing thru. I stuck it on with the JB weld and then apply liberal amounts of JB weld to fill in the area and let it sit up for 24 hours. You have to know it's there to even see it, it looks really good. The tensil strength of the JB weld is shown as 3600 lbs. so it should hold the dime in place and seal the hole, I think for a long time. I'll continue to run it that way until I'm sure it will hold up under heat up and cool down cycles. I don't know off the top of my head what the coeffecent of thermal expansion difference between the steel repair and the magnesium case is that's the unknown factor for me. Gonna have to look that up. If it will stand a few million cycles without failure, then I'll probably let Kennedy put one of his inserts in there and really know I've solved the problem. Again has anyone had a failure of the JB Weld fix? What epoxy is GM using on those replacement items?

[TheAmigo]

After having the first pinhole patched by the dealer it's still going strong about 4 years later. However, I just found a 2nd pinhole. I'll be plugging it with JB weld too.

[jbplock]

A few years ago I reinforced the transfer case on my 03 by applying some stick-epoxy putty (http://www.oatey.com/products/putty-caulks-and-water-barriers/epoxy-putty/fix-it-stick-epoxy-putty)to all the pump-rub wear points. It wasn't leaking at the time but I thought making the areas of the case that wear through about 3/8" thicker could prevent a leak. At 103kmi so far so good..