WAY OVERLOADED... One time... Can I do it?

[ssybert]

I just bought a backhoe and need to get it home. It weighs 17,500. The trailer weighs another 4750. Now I know my max towing capacity is 12000 but this isn't something I plan to do regularly... I just want to get this thing home, where it's going to live probably until I can get a permanant means of moving it around.

I'm looking at a load of 22,250 behind my truck. It's pretty much all highway all the way home and I've only got about 50 miles. If I keep this thing under 50...say 45 or so in the slow lane can I get it home?

I know there are all kinds of legal implications, etc... bottom line, will I do irrepairable damage to my truck towing this or will will this tough pig take the abuse just one time?

I've got a 2002 2500HD D/A

Lemme know what you guys think.. I wanna get this machine out of there in the next couple of days and REALLY dont feel like hiring a 6wheeler to come and tow it for me.

Scott.

[trbankii]

Permanent damage? Probably not as long as there aren't any major hills or anything. I'd really think long and hard about whether it is worth it, though.

Forgoing the legal implications, there is the question of what happens if it gets away from you. Back when I was young(er) and foolish(er), I hauled a load of lumber home from the lumberyard (about ten miles) that was at least half again as much as my towing capacity. It was local roads and I kept it under 35 mph. Coming down a slight grade, I tried to brake to slow things down (mid-size pickup and no trailer brakes). When I did, I felt the trailer start to push the back end of the truck out. All I could do was accelerate and hope for the best. It worked out, but I could have easily jacknifed the truck and trailer into a whole line of oncoming traffic.

In your case, you're pretty much doubling the towing capacity. It isn't as much about getting it going and straining the truck as controlling it and getting it stopped again once it IS moving.

[Jim Brzozowski]

Unless you have a dual tandum axle with dual wheels and gooseneck hitch, and good trailer brakes on all wheels, I wouldn't try it. Find someone with that kind of rig to haul it for you.
If you have trailer brakes and the trailer has the capacity to carry the load and you are very careful how you load and secure it and understand every detail of how to manuver a tail dragger load if someone stops of turns in front of you, you won't have a problem towing the load with the truck you have, its just that if someone else causes you to wreck and you loose your truck, I don't think it would be worth the extra couple of hundred bucks you could pay to have it hauled.

[ssybert]

The trailer is an 18,000# triple axle pintle hook. It's got electric brakes but I dont even know if they work. I bought it to haul small equipment back and forth from rental while I build my house and prepare the land. to hell with paying hundreds in TRAILER rental on top of the equipment rental. Then I decided, to hell with the equipment rental. I'll just BUY it and OWN it when I'm done. I'll be out almost the same money and have something to show for it in the end. My original plan has now left me under powered and unable to pick up my new (old) equipment. I've driven this trailer loaded with 8k ONCE. I hauled a friends kubota over to my place... probably 30 minutes drive and it handled fine. Kept a close eye on it, made sure it didn't start swinging, etc. I will say it tough to stop if I REALLY had to stomp on the brakes. Heavy braking I could hear the tire struggling to hold the pavement. Dont know if the trailer brakes were REALLY working or not. nor do I know how many wheels HAVE brakes. It's a BIG trailer I'll have to pick it up with the loader and see which tires move and which ones dont when I touch the brakes in the truck.

Are the brakes variable based on braking perssure or are these trucks ON or OFF trailer braking?

[DmaxMaverick]

What is your trailer hitch on the truck rated at? I doubt it's rated over 12K, 10K with weight distributing. The OEM hitch platforms are known to be less than HD. That may answer your question.

[ssybert]

My truck is a stock hitch. The pintle can do 10 tons. Everything is going to be overloaded. Everything. I think the truck is a class IV @ 12k?

[DmaxMaverick]

I wouldn't do it with that much weight hanging of the frame. GN or 5'er, maybe. The pintle is NOT the weak link. NO WAY on an OEM hitch!

Those of us with families traveling on the same roads really appreciate your asking, though.

[trbankii]

Originally posted by ssybert:
Then I decided, to hell with the equipment rental. I'll just BUY it and OWN it when I'm done. I'll be out almost the same money and have something to show for it in the end. You know, I acquired a Bobcat with much the same reasoning... smile.gif

An hour drive on the highway, overloaded, questionable condition on the trailer, and I think you've pretty much answered the question. I'd be looking for someone that could haul it for me. You look at the potential for loss if anything goes wrong, even at the cost of fines if the highway patrol see you, and I just don't think the risks are worth it.

Depending on the cost to haul it, I'd consider driving the backhoe home on the sideroads before trailering it.

[DmaxMaverick]

Whichever way you go, be smart about it. THIS THREAD (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=003752) shows what lack of attention to detail will get you. If you do your own hauling, and are overloaded or improperly loaded, you insurance company (not to mention the authorities) will hang you out to dry if something goes wrong.

[Willcoc]

As all have stated above, not a easy decision. I have pulled a 20K load (dozer) on a tandem dually gooseneck trailer. Very happy with the going forward of the truck but slowing down was another issue. Double check the trailer brakes after you get loaded. Do make sure you chain it down well. From my single experiance with a pintle hitch trailer, good luck with the balance. My truck does not seem worse for the usage. They did move this same dozer behind a F**d on a pintel type trailer but he did have the larger receiver hitch installed.

[OC_DMAX]

I would think you could hire someone with the correct size truck to tow the backhoe for you. It can't cost that much.

A thousand pounds or two over for a short distance maybe OK, but your way over. As mentioned above, I'd be really nervous about the hitch itself.

[carco]

Local person moving a TLB on a pintle trailer behind a GM C30 dump truck; lost it down hill in a 35 MPH zone. Lack of brakes and lack of truck weight. If level maybe, if GN hitch maybe, My thoughts, HTH. bob.............

[trbankii]

Originally posted by DmaxMaverick:
Whichever way you go, be smart about it. THIS THREAD (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=003752) shows what lack of attention to detail will get you.That may be a bad example as he hired someone to move it and THEY did the damage... smile.gif

[Craig M]

Towed an "overweight" loader on a three axle pull trailer, with a pickup truck, 35 miles or so once. Stayed on back roads, no freeways. Hitch capacity was not an issue. With the three axle got majority of weight over the three axles, kept tounge weight reasonable. Dry pavement and no sand on roads a must for stopping. If back roads and light traffic are around it is feasible. As other have stated you must consider the possible downside.

[LucasEnglish]

I know with my set up which is a 30ft gooseneck tripple axle rated at 24k and has breaks on all axles. I have crossed the scales at 31k. With all breaks working I can stop from 50 to 0 Ok. But with out the breaks I can bearly get the load stopped from 30 mph.

That is over dobble what the stock hitch is rated for so I would say no for that rason.

I would sure as hell make sure the breaks are working. A 4k traller and you don't even no the breaks are working is not the very good at all.

[scottdiesel]

You are rated to tow 12,000 safely.
You want to try and tow 22,500.

Forget that you want to save a little money to have your equipment moved properly and safely.

What do you say to the husband of the wife and 3 kids you just killed because some idiot cuts you off, you have to slam on the brakes and your trailer (which you don't even know if the brakes work or not) jack knifes into oncoming traffic??

Look him in the eye and say "sorry I killed your family buddy, but I got this old backhoe and I figured I could move it myself on this here trailer, the one embedded in the front of your wife's minivan, and save a few bucks. Sorry dude." I'm sure he'll be very understanding of your cost cutting ambitions.

At some point you have spent a lot of money on a truck and various equipment and you want to save a few hundred $$$ to move your equipment the right way. Spend the money and have your equipment moved safely.

[cowboywildbill]

Believe it or not I know someone that had a drilling rig on a tandem triple axel trailer weighed in about 24,500. He said his Dmax had plenty of guts to tow it, but when you have someting behind you that wieghs that much. More than twice the wieght of the truck, it owns you. And if something goes wrong it will just push the truck around like you were towing a 3,000 lb trailer with a bicycle. I would get a bigger truck to be safe. The fines alone would break the bank. Good luck

[Herman_Bolger]

I think you already know what the smart thing to do is!

[convert2diesel]

Really hate to state the obvious, but why not just attach a slow moving vehicle sign on it and drive it home?

Surely a bit of fuel and three hours of your time is worth it if only to protect yourself and anyone else who might get in the way of a run-away rig.

Bill

[ssybert]

lol.. thanks for the insight guys. I headed down that night to pick up the 10' fisher and accessories that came with the backhoe and scheduled a pickup by a heavy equipment hauler to get the machine. once there I felt very uncomfortable about leaving the machine there that night. The guy I bought it from felt very untrustworthy. He was drunk, pushy and seemed to need the money very badly. When I told him I make the bank check out for the exact amount and I'd need my $50 cash deposit back he said to me "Sorry son, that money's spent. You've got me working overtime tonight. You're lucky I dont charge you another $50". Oh my god. This guy just stole my money right in front of me!!

My friend and I both decided that against our better judgement we NEEDED to get that machine OUT OF THERE NOW. We moved things around the trailer to accomodate the plow AND the backhoe and tried loading it up on the trailer. He was pressuring me to "leave it here tonight. Have J&G come get it in the morning." Kept on me about using HIS guys TOMORROW. I was scared it wouldn't BE THERE in the morning. So we start pulling the machine on the trailer the the trailer LIFTED THE TRUCK OFF THE GROUND. not much, but a little and the tired chirped as the truck pulled backwards. Driving onto the trailer move the truck started to squat down lower and lower and lower. The truck swuated down so low the hitch almost was touching the ground. Off the backhoe came. No way, no how was this machine getting hauled with that truck. No way.

We ended up leaving it there and having it delivered in the morning. Everything worked out fine.

thanks for all the input everyone. Mental note to self "No not move ANYTHING that says Caterpillar with a duramax". lol, this was a small backhoe (426) and my truck DID NOT like it one little bit.

[trbankii]

Glad to hear that it all worked out. With the situation you described, I think I would have driven the backhoe out of there that evening...

[LeroyR]

I'm with trbankii. In fact, I would've probably tried to figure out a way to connect the trailer to the backhoe and put the truck up on the trailer. :D ;) As long as it worked out for you.

[trbankii]

There you go, Leroy! Hadn't quite thought about that angle. I can just see the conversation with the highway patrolman, though...

"Son, what in the ever lovin' he** do you think you are doing with that setup on a public road?!?"

:confused: :D

[trbankii]

Hey, if it had been a Dodge you could have done it! smile.gif

http://www.isuzu4x.com/albums/album04/cummins.jpg

HA!

[edit] Before I upset anyone too much, I should note that photo was staged. Take a look at the rear of the truck, no sag whatsoever! He backed up to the trailer, held the brakes, and accelerated a bit to give the "smoke" for the picture.

[ 09-25-2005, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: trbankii ]

[trbankii]

Another picture to consider before overloading a vehicle...

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b368/Deltamaster/27Jun05Mo0006.jpg

Closeup...

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b368/Deltamaster/27Jun05Mo0007A.jpg

[trbankii]

Thinking about it some more, that one really scares me a bit. It looks like he just has it attached to a ball on the bumper rather than an actual frame mounted hitch. The fact that he bent the frame instead of just pulling the bumper off the truck is a bit odd...

[mdadgar]

Originally posted by trbankii:
Thinking about it some more, that one really scares me a bit. It looks like he just has it attached to a ball on the bumper rather than an actual frame mounted hitch. The fact that he bent the frame instead of just pulling the bumper off the truck is a bit odd... If you look at the factory hitch on our trucks, it bolts to the bumper as well. It mounts to the frame, too, but if you put a LOT of weight on the hitch, it's going to pull the bumper (and probably bed) down the same way that happened to this poor Ferd.

I don't think it bent the Ferd's frame. I think it just rotated the bed downward. You can kind of see into the wheel well and it looks like the frame runs horizontal to the ground.

- Mark

[DmaxMaverick]

The OEM bumpers of all full size trucks are attached to the frame. In many states, it's unlawful to do it otherwise.

That pic would make for an good TV commercial. Maybe 6 bolts are too much for the bed?

That Ford has a bent frame.

[trbankii]

It is pretty hard to see into the shadows either in the wheelwell or around the hitch. Might have to pull it into PhotoShop where I can do some image correction to see if I can squeeze some more detail out of it.

I don't see how it could just be a rotated bed, though. I agree with DMax that the bumper (and any hitch) has to be tied directly to the frame. It does look like there is some possibility that it is just a ball in the bumper rather than a receiver hitch.

I do know that when the current bodystyle for the F150s came out posts on the off-road forums started appearing showing dents in the back of the cab from the frame flexing enough that the bed would hit the cab.

I'm still just surprised that the frame was the weakest link. If it is a bumper pull, you'd think the bumper would have bent/fallen off. If it is a receiver hitch, you'd think that it would pull the front wheels off the ground or something else before bending the frame.

[DmaxMaverick]

Either way, bumper/ball or hitch, the frame bent. I don't think it would have mattered where the ball was mounted. This is the new "improved, better than the rest" F truck, with the "stronger" frame and bolts. I'd like to hear their explanation for this one. I've "taco'd" bumpers by overloading them. Never broke the "weaker" GM frame. That load doesn't even look intimidating.

[letsgo]

Reminds me of a friend who towed his 10000lb trailer with a volvo 6 cylinder, he said it was no problem until he had to stop going down hill in Kentucky, NO BRAKES.

good luck

drive safe

[DmaxMaverick]

Normally, I don't discuss such things, but.... Last Thursday, I had to do an overloaded haul. Had to move a bunch of oil drill pipe sections in the truck bed. Loaded very carefully so not to wrinkle the foil (sheet metal), had the 2 7/8" X 7' sections stacked up above the bed rails. About 180 pipe sections, @ 30 pounds each. Do the math. 5,400 pounds! If not for the urgency, I wouldn't have done it, ever. Airbags/tires at full pressure, the truck was level. Actually, the truck didn't really seem to grunt with that load. I could feel the weight, especially when braking, but braking was still very good. I hauled that load about 3 miles. Unloaded some of it and hauled about 3,000 pounds of it about 50 miles, no hills or serious traffic on back roads at a reasonable speed. It wasn't too much of an event, but I wouldn't want to do it often. One of those situations where you say, "I did it, but I wouldn't suggest anyone else should." Necessity has a way of putting us in these situations.

[Dezman125]

Hi
I had a tow call a few days ago,it was a ford pickup,same modle as the one in the pic.It had lost control and ended rolling in the ditch,ending up on it's side.Both tires were flat on the side in the air so i decided to change the tire while it was in the air.As i was chaging the rear tire i noticed that the main frame rails wern't one piece.Their is a joint in the frame,right where the ford in the above picture bent.
Looks like another great idea from ford. :D Remember the ford tough frame from the early 80's with all the big holes in it to reduce wieght :confused: I thought frames were supposed to be strong to haul loads in pickups.
Glad my truck of choice is GM :cool: