View Full Version : homebrew biodiesel?
farmboy1989
06-09-2006, 12:46
How are yall making your homebrew?.....Homemade processor or bought? I wont buy a processor but thought bout making one and was wondering what you absolutely needed and how you did it and what your cost was.I'd want to build one that would make 20 gallon batches.Does anyone sell plans for cheap homemade units?How much a gallon does your bio cost you?
google appleseed reactor and you come up with planes like on this web site http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/appleseedprocessor/
Kevin
Bill Voitel
06-09-2006, 20:10
Farmboy: I have bought a Fulemiester processor, makes 45 gallon baches. Just picked up my first drum of fryer oil from a rest giving me the stuff. Not ready to brew the first bach for another week unless it rains this weekend. Resaerched this thing for about 6 months B-4 jumping in went to two different seminars gathered a bunch of data then decided on the pre fab unit. basicily for ease of use and if i get enough oil i can increase volume easly.
I will post my results on how I do.
There are a number of different plans and suggestions on processors here:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html
The one mentioned above also looks very promising.
Patrick m.
06-12-2006, 15:58
i got interested in this like others after the episode of "Trucks" which showed a unit and how it was done.
I started checking with restaurants to see which would give away the oil. Some were paying to have it hauled off, and would gladdly give to me, others had caught on to the bio-diesel market and were starting to sell it.
After doing the math, it will take too long to pay for the unit, expense will climb rapidly as restaurants catch on, then the Feds wont let a tax base go unnoticed, pretty soon you are saving 25 cents a gallon and driving 40 extra miles a week to gather supplies.
The gamble is how long can you make it for around $1.00 a gallon.
After doing the math, it will take too long to pay for the unit, expense will climb rapidly as restaurants catch on, then the Feds wont let a tax base go unnoticed, pretty soon you are saving 25 cents a gallon and driving 40 extra miles a week to gather supplies.
If you don't want to do it - don't. Your sour grapes won't become reality for a long time, if ever. Restaurants now pay to have the stuff hauled. What makes you think they are going to charge you for something they get charged to take away? And the government will not think about taxing until bio-diesel use becomes much, much more wide spread. Do you know anyone in your neighborhood that is doing it? In your town? It will be a while before taxation is a concern. Even if it is taxed, the gasoline tax is around 18 cents per gallon. So even with that, the processing is still close to a dollar.
Many of the processors on the above mentioned web sites can be put together for a couple hundred bucks and the cost of fuel from them is under $1.00. With fuel at $3.00 it will take about 100 gallons to break even. That is two tank-fulls for me, and I use that amount in about a month. So even if things change in a year, I would be ahead of the game for 11 months! And if things do change, it will be considerably longer than that. So it is no gamble, it is a sure thing.
If you do the math, you will need to find other reasons not to do it.
Farmboy: I run blended fuel in my 96 6.5td. Its much easier than making bio and should run good in a 92 model. Blending is simply taking 80% used cooking oil ( after it has been filtered to .05 micron ) and 20% RUG (regular unleaded gasoline) and mixing them togather and adding a small amount of Power Service diesel additive. This is my summer blend and for winter I use 60% cooking oil and 40% white kerosene. You can find more info by doing a search for "Krugel Blend" . A friend of mine has been using this type of blend for over 20 yrs. He caught on to this while still in the military. Hope this helps.
Bill Voitel
06-30-2006, 17:44
Here we go! brewing my third batch, Haven't made soap yet....WHEW. First two baches were very easy third has been a bit more difficult. While in the water wash process one of the misters got a chunk of stuff in it and shot a very small stream of water in the bio-d enough to make it cloudy. I thought here was my truck wash soap for the next year but it is setteling to the bottom just very slowly. Truck smells like it's burning french frys out the pipe. No difference in performance & have not pluged the fuel filter yet but I have a spare RTG. as far as the cost thing as pat was talking about A buddy of mine went in on the unit with me (He has a D-Max) so the costs are split in half but we still anr in it for about 1900.00 each after buying all of the extra stuff we think-thought we would need (yea went a littel overboard here). My buddy says he cannot tell any difference in the way his truck runs. On my PSD no difference except it is a bit quieter then it was.......so we are both pretty happy with the results. and yes the payoff might take a year but thats not the issue with us..........BV
farmerherb
07-01-2006, 07:40
I plan to make Biodiesel also, but I plan to filter it-filter it-filter it-filter it! I afraid of water in the BD. I will be filtering from the Rest. to my container then filter from my container to the processor then again after the process. Filters are a lot cheaper than a 6.5TD injection pump. I've seen some nasty looking waste oil at Rest. and some that looks like you could burn it right out of the container. I average 17mpg in my truck, making my own diesel it will be like I'm getting 50+ mpg.
Bill Voitel
07-02-2006, 06:09
We do filter B-4 it goes to the heating drum. It looks kinda of cheesey but I used an old 5 gallon rotella bucket drilled a hole in the side of bucket about 2 inches off of the bottom siliconed it in place. for my filter media I used a bucket style nylon paint strainer not sure how many microns it goes down to but my dad used them all the time to keep garbage from plugging the tip of his graco paint sprayer. The final filter set up is the filter on pump style like tanks in the back of pickups with a water seperator using a goldenrod 596-5
filter that takes us down to 10 microns.......BV
TurboDiverArt
07-02-2006, 07:22
Farmboy: I run blended fuel in my 96 6.5td. Its much easier than making bio and should run good in a 92 model. Blending is simply taking 80% used cooking oil ( after it has been filtered to .05 micron ) and 20% RUG (regular unleaded gasoline) and mixing them togather and adding a small amount of Power Service diesel additive. This is my summer blend and for winter I use 60% cooking oil and 40% white kerosene. You can find more info by doing a search for "Krugel Blend" . A friend of mine has been using this type of blend for over 20 yrs. He caught on to this while still in the military. Hope this helps.
Now this sounds a lot better to me. I assume you don't do anything to the cooking oil other than filter it? Having to "process" BIO diesel with all the chemicals and byproduct disposal has never been to appealing to me. Also, the need to have to heat your trucks fuel tank and switch to diesel for start and stop seems like a drag. I put on about 350 miles a week so I think I'd need to process about 25 gallons a week. Having all those chemicals in the garage with young kids doesn't sound to safe to me. A couple of questions/confirmation for ya:
1). You don
moondoggie
07-02-2006, 08:16
Good Day!
This is all WAY interesting. de lok's blended wvo idea sounds VERY interesting.!
I have questions I've never seen addressed anywhere, & I have the same questions for both biodiesel & wvo (blended or not).
What are the waste products?
What is the volume per gallon of fuel produced of such waste products?
How are you getting rid of these waste products?
TIA & Blessings!
Having to "process" BIO diesel with all the chemicals and byproduct disposal has never been to appealing to me. Also, the need to have to heat your trucks fuel tank and switch to diesel for start and stop seems like a drag.This is not needed for bio-diesel. Tank switching is only for running straight vegetable oil.
TurboDiverArt
07-02-2006, 18:17
This is not needed for bio-diesel. Tank switching is only for running straight vegetable oil.
Oops, yes my mistake. I did know that.
Art.
farmerherb
07-04-2006, 09:53
Everyone seems to be worried about "those dangerous chemicals" methonol is what we use in the go-karts(safer than gas) lye is in a small container like oil sold in the food stores(people use it to make soap). The chemicals you use around the house to kill weeds and bugs are as or more dangerous. Waste oil is know that way because the Rest. is throwing it away(would pour it down the drain but 5-10 gals could make a expensive clog) when you're done with the biodiesel process the waste is cure soap. I'd like to use a quick and easy way to make fuel but I'm worried about clouding the optic sensor or clogging sonething. I know there are filters as small as 1 micron but how many gal of cure waste oil can you filter before changing?
Bill Voitel
07-05-2006, 16:57
The by product of the "cracking" process is glycrin yes the main ingredent in most all soaps. It can be mixed with waste oil and burnt in a waste oil furnace without any ill effects. You would not want to burn it straight, Straight it puts off som nasty gasses. On a 40 gallon batch I am seeing 7-8.5 gallons of waste(glycrin) I have a buddy that has a kwik lube place he is getting paid .52 a gallon for his waste oil and is more that happy to take all I give him it goes in his 500 gallon tank he dumps about every 6 weeks. as far as the methanol yep go cart fuel, sprint car fuel, indy car fuel same stuff.
Setting up to run my 5th batch. here are the numbers to date: at the current local cost of 2.89 a gallon my 160 gallons would have cost me 462.40
Total cost for the unit lets make it easy 4000.00 including 2-55's of methanol & 1 50lb bag of lye (it takes around 1000 grams of lye per bach) I will need to make $3537.60 dollars worth of fuel or 1224 or so gallons to cover the cost of the unit. Have not estamated the cost on ongoing supplys but my methanol cost is at 101.00 per 55. Some may say it's not worth it but every dollar I dont send over seas for oil I get to spend here and the 4000.00 spent so far went to two guys in Sully Iowa,The local dealers for the unit I bought that was mfg in southern Ca. The other BEST part is and don't get me wrong I have never been a tree hugger only when I'm cutting them down for firewood in the winter to keep my propane bill in check. Is the FACT that tail pipe emissions are reduced 70-80% below petro diesel. Gues old Rudy Diesel knew what he was dooin when he built the first diesel and ran ot off of peanut oil!!!
moondoggie
07-06-2006, 06:49
[font=times][size=+]Good Day!
[i]
Most biodiesel sites indicate that there is methanol left over after the process, with up to 25% of the original amount recoverable. There are various plans for the necessary tubing and equipment to capture this and return it to a container for re-use, thereby lowering the cost of each batch. Here is a good forum on the entire process, with a discussion section specifically on the recovery of methanol.
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums
It looks like batch processors can be made for under $500 and the cost per gallon (assuming free vegi-oil) is under $1.00 If recovery of methanol is done, the per gallon cost could be significantly less. With efficiencies and recoveries it is estimated that 70 cents per gallon is reasonably attained, and that includes the outside power source used for heating the process.
moondoggie
07-06-2006, 09:55
Good Day!
"Most biodiesel sites indicate that there is methanol left over after the process, with up to 25% of the original amount recoverable." Does this mean 75% of the methanol becomes part of the biodiesel and/or glycerin & 25% is either wasted or recovered, OR there is an undetermined amount of waste methanol, 25% of which is recoverable?
Blessings!
(signature in previous post)
The reaction typically uses about 120- 130ml methanol per litre of oil reacted. Most of the excess over this amount is recoverable.
About 2/3 of the recoverable amount of methanol is in the glycerine layer and 1/3 in the biodiesel.
Apparently you can recover the meth from the biodiesel as well, but it is more difficult, but certainly do-able.
Check out that site - a lot of information about brewing.
Subzilla
07-07-2006, 10:08
Just to reiterate. some of the meth does end up in the biodiesel but you want that to go away before dumping it into your truck either by washing the biodiesel or waiting for it to evaporate off. The meth that ends up in the glycerin will also eventually evaporate away.
Farmboy: I run blended fuel in my 96 6.5td. Its much easier than making bio and should run good in a 92 model. Blending is simply taking 80% used cooking oil ( after it has been filtered to .05 micron ) and 20% RUG (regular unleaded gasoline) and mixing them togather and adding a small amount of Power Service diesel additive. This is my summer blend and for winter I use 60% cooking oil and 40% white kerosene. You can find more info by doing a search for "Krugel Blend" . A friend of mine has been using this type of blend for over 20 yrs. He caught on to this while still in the military. Hope this helps.
De Lok,
I really like the sound of this process over the others. Could you elaborate more on your filtration setup for the oil and what your blending process involves. I did a search on Krugel Blend and didnt hit anything that was relevant. Any other info you have would be great, as I think several others are very interested in this approach.
Thanks!
farmboy1989
07-11-2006, 19:14
I would also like some additional info on the Krugel blend or a link to a website.
De Lok,
When you get a chance, could you post some info in response to TurboDiverArts questions?
I can tell there are a few people out here who think this a really easy way to make blended fuel. I think we all would like to get some more info from you on how it is running in the DS4 and how you are set up for filtering.
Thanks,
De Lok,
Would like to hear more about your blend. I (We) are curious about it.
1. Turbodiver Art had some great questions- can you help us out.
2. Any more specifics on your blending process?
3. How many miles have you logged-any problems associated?
Thanks,
Brent
MTTwister
08-01-2006, 12:17
" De Lok,
Would like to hear more about your blend. "
And the filtering process, the whole stinkerieee, if you would. Thanks
I once owned a 1958 Mercedes 180D that was factory authorized to run on various blends of vegetable oil products. The shop manual for this car listed permissable blends. I believe this information was intended for the South American distribution area. If someone out there has a copy I would be interested in the data. I gave away the manual when I sold the car about 25 years ago. Thanks, Fred
Are the processes deferent to make bio-diesel from used Sunflower oil and used Palm oil?
How does animal fat in the used oil affect the end product or bio-diesel?
Is there anybody on the forum that use Palm oil for bio-diesel?
Lil Timmy
08-12-2006, 22:45
The process is the same no matter what type of veg oil you use. The main difference will be the temp at which the fuel will cloud/gel at. Palm oil will gel at higher temps than sunflower oil, so it would not be a good choice for use as winter fuel.
You can make biodiesel out of animal fats, but it will have a very high gel point.
Please do research before plunking down $3k for one of those FuelMeister kits. EVERYTHING I have read on the homebrew sites indicates that at best they make really poor, inferior fuel. At worst they have the potential to be unsafe (plastic reaction tanks can and do melt). You can build an Appleseed type processor for under $500, way under if you use a free used water heater rather than a new one. It makes better quality fuel, almost completely fumeless, and the tank is steel, so no melting.
tedtobler
08-15-2006, 12:43
We are currently making bio diesel and have been for about a year in Ohio. We have 3 vehicles running it. My 1995 Chevy 2500 6.5TD (that is having hot start problems), a VW Jetta and a 2000 Ford 250. We have not had any real problems getting oil but, the competition is getting there. Most restaurants have contracts with people to come and get their oil. Many of them charge the restaurant to get the oil but I am finding especially at Chinese restaurants that people are paying them for their used oil.
I would happily send anyone who is interested, plans on how to build a reactor and cleaning system for bio diesel. They are cheap to build. The toughest part is getting the chemicals KOH and Methanol.
I would caution anyone who is interested in doing this:
1. It is a messy, messy hobby. You have to pick up some pretty bad stuff from the restaurant
2. The competition is getting tough; we had 2 barrels stolen from a restaurant by someone making their bio diesel.
3. You better have a place to dump waste stuff, like batches that have gone bad and crud from the bottom of the barrel.
Bill Voitel
08-16-2006, 19:15
Timmy what is your data that leads you to believe the fuelmiester unit
"at best they make really poor, inferior fuel". I have one of the units have just sent 5 samples off with our fuel testing company that tests the fuel at our work tanks. It will be compared to ASTM standards for petro fuel. I have run almost 450 gallons through my PSD and 150 gallons through my buddys 05 Max with no ill effects to date, have not even had to change a fuel filter yet, but we do run it through a 5 micron filter B-4 putting it in the trucks. Also what process are you referring to that you can use animal fat to make bio-d from ? EVERYTHING I have read says stay away from animal fat for this type of processing? I believe it would be almost impossible to produce usable bio from animal fat when you are pulling the free fatty acids out of vegi oil & disgarding then using what is left for fuel............
Lil Timmy
08-17-2006, 09:13
http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6791 would be a good start, they show results from recent GC testing on about page 7 or 8. There are many other similar threads on that forum, as well as http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums and the Yahoo group biodieselbasics. I read the part about the animal fats a couple years ago. I personally don't recommend using them either due to the extremely high gel point and cost to process, but it can be done.
It appears the Fuelmeister CAN be made to make quality fuel and in a safe manner, but not as it comes, right out of the box. Personally, though I think it looks nice, I would not spend that kind of money on a system I'd need to modify when I can make one that does a better job (albeit not as pretty) for thousands less.
spark3542
08-17-2006, 09:20
I found a good (15 page) discussion on Krugel blend here:
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=130403
I'm on my 4th batch of homebrew biodiesel, and haven't tried Krugel blend yet, but it's very intriguing.
Mark in MA
Thanks for the link. I am feeling a bit better about embarking on this for my Sub.
Seems the biggest concern for Mercedes having previously recommended up to 30% RUG to 70% Diesel as a winter additive is that with the reduced sulfur in the latter years, they have removed that blend as a recommended practice on the newer benz's.
The counterpoint to the argument is that the WVO has more lubricity than diesel to begin with. Personally I use Power Service additive on every tank and would continue when I go over to 80/20 (WV0/RUG).
A few people commented on the finnicky nature of our DS4 pumps, but I think that is out of a lack of information as to the true root cause of the problem being the PMD.
I have found a really good source of clean oil. (They change out every day because they want the food to look really good).
As I learn more I certainly will post.
polejockey65
08-24-2006, 02:16
Has anyone ever burn't tranformer mineral oil? I have read on other sites that i can burn it staight with out mixing. does anyone Know? I e-mailed the journey forever web sit and they said to read the site. site was vaugue since not many people have the access to the transformer mineral oil I was woried that with my 1996 6.5 truck that it would hurt the injection pump. any thoughts on this would be great.Thanks
Brian
DmaxMaverick
08-24-2006, 10:39
I know of a couple guys burning TMO. It works, but you have to treat it like any heavy oil during cold weather. It's thicker than #2, and gets thicker (and clouds) in the cold. Problem is, the stuff is akin to brake fluid, so you'll have to replace all the rubber in the system, and/or replace frequently. Viton seemed to be the longest lasting, but not a permanent fix. The oil has additives in it that aren't friendly with dynamic seals, and not likely user friendly. We had the MSDS posted here at one time, but can't find it now. You might try a search, as it's been discussed before. You may want to contact your local power company for more detailed info on the stuff. They will at least have the MSDS.
murphyslaw
09-27-2006, 22:30
so any updates?
Im looking to start making bio-d for myself and my neighbor. read so much my head spins all darn day and everyplace says something different do it this way/ no do it like this. its driving me nuts. I have been asking different places about there oil desposal and it looks like i couls get more then enought wvo to make it work. Looking into the meth, and lye there has to be a chem dist. up here.
DmaxMaverick
09-27-2006, 23:27
so any updates?
Im looking to start making bio-d for myself and my neighbor. read so much my head spins all darn day and everyplace says something different do it this way/ no do it like this. its driving me nuts. I have been asking different places about there oil desposal and it looks like i couls get more then enought wvo to make it work. Looking into the meth, and lye there has to be a chem dist. up here.
Seems to me you wouldn't be able to do it year round where you are. Bio is more sensitive to colder temps than #2.
The methanol and lye are usually no problem. The methanol can be had at many oil/fuel distributors. It's the same as racing alcohol. Depending on how much you need, it can also be ordered through hobby suppliers, because it's also "glow fuel" (used in R/C cars and planes-just be sure you get "straight"-no nitro). Drano is lye, and can be found in any hardware store or market.
murphyslaw
09-27-2006, 23:51
yeah I have thought about the cold thing, would like a 20%bio or 5%bio mix be ok for an average winter temp of about 3*F? I have a heated filter but not sure that will do much good if the tanks ins a bowl of crisco.
but in the summer I would like to use as much bio as I could and i use alot of fuel(summer average is about 40-55g/week) If i could make a 100g a week that would be sweet then i'd sell/trade some to my neighbor that has been talkin about bio-d.
were already runnin a #1/#2 mix(bout 50/50) and its not even cold yet.
garre1tt
09-28-2006, 20:53
I just had to get a couple of things clear for my understanding. I have seen posted a couple of times that animal fat is not good for biodiesel because of its high gel point. This might just be semantics but animal fat has a low gel point. Think of the bacon drippings that get firm in the poor off can sitting on the counter. They solidify at room temperature.
Fats are fats. The only difference is the amount of chemical bonds that hold them together. Animal fats are high in triglycerides. Tri meaning three bonds that hold them together. Poly is two and mono is one. Check the labels on different oils and those that are better for our bodies are easier to make into biodiesel.
Once a fat is converted to a bio diesel, it no longer retains the characteristics of the parent oil. The conversion rates are the only thing that changes with different oils. Using a one-stage conversion system will make biodiesel just as good as the next. The price of the unit does not matter.
Now for poly tanks melting. Methanol boils at around 110F. If you are getting your oil hotter than that the whole chemical reaction is off. Agricultural poly tanks should never melt at that low temperature.
Now every thing that I have based this post on is from my college organic chemistry class almost 20 years ago and a few hours doing research on the web. I have made about 20 gallons of biodiesel that I ran through both my 6.5
DmaxMaverick
09-28-2006, 22:36
Animal fat has a HIGH gel point, compared to most veggies. Meaning it gels at a higher tempurature, like room temp, vs. 40
FWIW, I have been running a 30%-40% WVO blended with commercially purchased B20 biodiesel all summer. I get the used oil from a friend and filter it to 1 micron with a simple two bucket, bag filter setup. So far so good. Is it a huge savings? Not huge, but enough even at the 30%-40% less to fillup the tank as I pay nothing for the used WVO oil. I am running my last tank of blend now as the temps are dipping into the 50's and I don't want gelling problems. RT
rfuntime
09-30-2006, 21:40
Michael D......Are you sure of the boiling poinnt of the methanol? I need to look it up, but was told it was closer to 140 degrees F. I too, burn B-100 in the summer. Once you try it , you will never go back!!!
garre1tt
10-01-2006, 11:51
DmaxMaveric,
Thanks for the clarification. I think that I was understanding the concept correctly just not the standard way. Going to have to retrain the brain.
Rfuntime, Yes you are correct. Pure methanol boils at 148.5 F. What I should have written is since it will start to vaporize before boiling point, the WVO should not be above 110-120 F. Still well with in the poly-tanks temp range.
Making biodiesel has got to be one of the coolest things that I have ever done. Ranks up there with homebrew beer and sour doe bread.
Thanks for the feed back
Michael D
DmaxMaverick
10-01-2006, 14:25
The best way to distill the methanol from your bio (or anything, for that matter), is low heat and vacuum. Methanol can be evaporated at room temp. with very little vacuum. If you do it in deliberate steps, the same can be done with the water, just higher temp/higher vacuum.
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