Shimming a starter

[wthif]

I just finished installing my DB Electrical starter and I need to shim it. Is shimming a starter pretty straight forward? I figured I have to drop the dust pan and see how it needs to be shimmed. Also will it hurt to drive it before I shim it. I've only started it twice now and probably would have to start it three more times if I drive my truck to pick up the shims. Any help would be appreciated. Oh! and I am assuming one thing; that when I start my truck and it makes a loud metal to metal skretch after starting that the starter needs to be shimmed.

[murphyslaw]

I would recomend that untill you shim it properly DONT TRY TO START THE TRUCK. that being said I have shimed many many starters heres how i do 'em.

pop the selinoid off so you can get to the fork to manualy move the bindix in and out. install the starter. grab a med. size paper clip and open it up so you can use it an a feeler guage(i dont remember the spec but i remember that a med size paper clip is damn close). ok so manualy engage the teeth pu pulling the fork arm towards the front of the rig. measure the depth of the starter teeth in the ring gear with the paper clip if the clip dosnt fit its to tight shim it out a tad by putting a shim on the inboard side of the starter. it there is alota room put a shim on the outbound side of the starter remeasure till the paper clip just fits. remember what u have for shims. remove the starter replace the selinoid. reinstall with the shims u had in there. hook it all up and give it a whing. it if grinds, look at the ring gear to see if its grinding the face of the ring gear(forward side) or the teeth it self. if its grinding the face its not tight enougth at shim(s) to the out board side, if its geinding the face its too tight add a shim to the inboard side(or remove the shim(s) from the outboard side. also if its really loud(tho my db e starter isnt) then its to "loose".

and remember to use new starter bolts any time you change a starter.

some times u have to work back and forth a tad but its usualy a quick semi easy thing to do.

[DmaxMaverick]

It is NOT recommended you shim the starter for the 6.2/6.5. If you have a reason to think it needs shimming, something else is wrong. The starter/engine is designed to be mated w/o shims, and it should be stamped into the housing to not use shims. Some aftermarket starters don't have the stamping, but it is the same.

If it is a noise, like the sound a gasser starter makes when it needs shimmed, it is very likely the starter housing is cracked, the block is cracked, or the flex plate is loose or cracked.

[wthif]

The sound isn't grinding. Sounds more like the starter doesn't disengage quickly enough. It could be because all the modifications I made to improve my starting I'm holding the key down to long, but I doubt it. The sound is kind of like a belt slipping but worse; don't know how else to explain it.

Modifications made are both batteries on passenger side, new battery cables, starter relay to aid the solenoid and take the load off ing. switch (is it possible the relay doesn't open quick enough?), and a new starter.

So if I'm not getting a grinding sound can I still drive the truck with out damage to the ring gear? Also this sound wasn't there until the new starter was installed old starter worked like a dream until it got hot. One more thing the sound doesn't occur when I just turn the engine over with the starter, with out the engine firing (starting).

I also have a email off to DB Electrical asking a couple of questions.

[murphyslaw]

thats wiered. I have a 200 amo alt and several starters from them and each of them work just as expected. hope spud will come up with some good info for you.

[wthif]

I decided I needed my truck too much to be dealing with this new gear reduction starter from DB Electrical. I was fairly sure that the only thing wrong with my old starter was the solenoid. So I went down town to get a new solenoid, but they cost anywhere from $150-200. That wasn't going to happen. I then thought about swapping solenoids from the new starter to the old, but decided that might not be a good idea (when it comes to an exchanging starters). Then I decided the whole reason I installed a starter relay was to combat the hot starter not engaging. So I just ended up installing my old gear reduction starter and it starts great with out any issues, I'll have to wait and see about the hot starter issue; tomorrow will tell.

Question I believe DmaxMaverick when he says,


It is NOT recommended you shim the starter for the 6.2/6.5. If you have a reason to think it needs shimming, something else is wrong. The starter/engine is designed to be mated w/o shims, and it should be stamped into the housing to not use shims. Some aftermarket starters don't have the stamping, but it is the same.

If it is a noise, like the sound a gasser starter makes when it needs shimmed, it is very likely the starter housing is cracked, the block is cracked, or the flex plate is loose or cracked.

but could someone confirm this before I call up DB Electrical and complain?

[murphyslaw]

Dmax is correct.


tho i have found alot need shimming. or mabey im just to picky.

[arveetek]

I have had to shim these starters before, but in fact, both of the DB electrical starters I purchased bolted up without shims and worked better than any other brand of starter I had tried before. So I'm rather confused, I must admit.

Casey

[wthif]

I don't know either, but they are sending out a replacement as I type with out a complaint from me. There will be a return label in the box so there will be no added expense for me. By the time this is all fixed almost half the cost of the starter will have been spent on shipping.

arveetek, I actually purchased a starter from them because of how happy you are with them.

[john8662]

The best starter I've ever had is an Autolite boxed starter that is not gear reduction. Equipped with the starter was a shim kit and the gauge tool necessary to gauge the distance between the starter and your flexplate teeth. I found it necessary to shim the starter, as anticipated by the rebuilder. In one my my cases (have installed two) it was too far out, the other too far in.

I can dig out the destructions that came with that starter if interested, was pretty good IMHO.

[arveetek]

arveetek, I actually purchased a starter from them because of how happy you are with them.

You've got to admit, they have sold over 14,000 items with 100% positive feedback....that's no easy feat.

Casey

[wthif]

You've got to admit, they have sold over 14,000 items with 100% positive feedback....that's no easy feat.

Casey

arveeteck, I agree and hopefully I will have the replacement starter installed in time to leave good feedback.

[wthif]

Update:

DB Electrical replacement starter arrived on Monday I installed it today (Tuesday) and same problem (Grinding while engaged). My old starter was a brand new AC Delco gear reduction starter and it didn't need any shims or anything. Of course after two DB Electrical starters doing the same thing it points to my engine having the problem, but I don't believe it. So I'm going to send back the two DBE starters I have and ask for a refund.

Tomorrow after class I will get back under my truck and remove the DBE starter and put my AC Delco one back in for the 3rd time. My AC Delco one has been working fine after installing a Starter Relay, so I'm going to continue to use it for a while. I will buy a new AC Delco starter in about a month or so and hope that the problem is actually the DBE starters.

I'm very happy with DB Electrical's customer service, but not at all with the product. The biggest thing I noticed is the "s" terminal on the solenoid strips very easy, not so with my Delco unit. Both "s" terminals have stripped on both DBE starters I've had in my possession. I can't see how a company can be able to sell a starter for a hundred dollars and maintain quality.

Also I'm very happy that arveetek is happy with his starter and that it works great for him. I'm now going to finish up a paper for a class and go to sleep.

[john8662]

All my gear reduction starters are the orig. Delco type starters. I even purchased a Delco Reman MT28 because I didn't want a knock-off instead.

Interesting note on the Start Terminal on the solenoid.

[DmaxMaverick]

The stripped stud is the difference between an $8 and $28 solenoid. I'd say questionable country of origin. If you only gripe is the solenoid, it can be replaced with one of higher quality.

The issue of shimming....
I suspect the starters needing shimming are either OEM gear housings that have been machined, or inferior castings. If the mating surface doesn't have "no shims" stamped onto it, likely it has either been machined off, or the castings never had it (once again, questionable origin). It would be much cheaper (for the mfg) to just make an average cast, and recommend shimming. More costly, would be for them to "overcast", and machine it to OEM spec (which is the way it's supposed to be done). I have seen some starters (Keefer? IIRC), that didn't have the stamping, but had a note with the starter advising no shims. These were local castings, but were up to OEM spec, and the machining on the mating surface was clearly visible.

[arveetek]

Wthif,

I'm sorry you have had troubles with DB Electrical's starters. My own personal experience has been wonderful, and both of the starters I've purchased are the best starters I have ever bought for my diesels in the last 11 years. Of course, I never purchased an AC Delco starter, but I didn't want to spend that much money for another reman starter either.

Both of my DB starters had nicely machined mounting surfaces, and required no shims to work properly. I didn't have any problems with the "s" terminals, either.

I will admit that the starters are foreign made, but again, they're the best I've ever bought. Of course, we'll have to wait a while longer to really check for durability. I'm not saying they're the best starters ever made, but they're the best starters I have ever bought.

If I had purchased a new Delco starter back in 1995/96, perhaps I wouldn't have been through so many aftermarket starters? ;)

Casey