My 6.5 Left me Stranded

[seth_95]

Today I was heading home on the interstate driving about 65mph. Within the last few miles the truck just seemed to not be running the same. I was going up a hill and then the rpm fluctuated down to zero then back up then it died. I had plenty of fuel. It was snowing out so I was out in the weather and I tried jumping the lift pump relay and I got the pump to cycle so that was good. I had good oil pressure about 42 when this happened. I let it sit for about 30mins and tried to start again. It started up and I drove it about 30 feet and it died again and could not get it to start again. When I was cranking it did not even try to fire. Just crank crank crank. I had it towed to the dealership but it was after hours and I would rather have me work on it to save me money. Any ideas?

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

Today I was heading home on the interstate driving about 65mph. Within the last few miles the truck just seemed to not be running the same. I was going up a hill and then the rpm fluctuated down to zero then back up then it died. I had plenty of fuel. It was snowing out so I was out in the weather and I tried jumping the lift pump relay and I got the pump to cycle so that was good. I had good oil pressure about 42 when this happened. I let it sit for about 30mins and tried to start again. It started up and I drove it about 30 feet and it died again and could not get it to start again. When I was cranking it did not even try to fire. Just crank crank crank. I had it towed to the dealership but it was after hours and I would rather have me work on it to save me money. Any ideas?

Dude, not cool! Was the truck running hot at all? It could be the PMD(Pump Mounted Driver) got cooked. It's in a really stupid location (basically on top of the manifold) and the stock setup is notorious for overheating and cooking.
You can get relocator kits that will move it away from the heat. A lot of times GM service will try to screw you and say it's the fuel injection pump. Fine if it's under warranty, get it replaced as well. But at '95 I doubt it. Get a tester and check out the continuity of your PMD. I'm saying this because this is what happened to my dad's '95. Except his went at the same time as his injection pump. When the started to go the truck would smoke black like crazy and run very rough. Then it started to die. Then it would start, run a bit and die. Then it wouldn't start at all. So for the price of a new injection pump, (they are not cheap!:o ) perhaps try to get your PMD relocated with an upgraded heat sync. If your injection pump isn't getting the signal to move fuel but your starter is, that is all that will happen. You'll crank, crank, crank, and crank. Try cracking an injector line to see if you get fuel shooting out when you crank. Just be careful because there is a lot of psi on the fuel coming out of the lines so just crack it don't take it off all the way. Cylinders 1 and 3 are probably the easiest to get at. (Front two, drivers side.) Hope this helps,

[Robyn]

What you had happen is most likely a classic failure of the PMD.
Magic widget box on the left side of the IP. (Black about the size of a deck of cards)
You can do one of two things, (One) get a new PMD and a remote mount. The wires can be unhooked from the exisiting unit with some iggle and uggle.
Or (two) you can get a SOL D from Remarq
I have the Sold D on mine at this time. It mounts on the air top hat after you remove and toss the plastic engine cover.
The PMD will very seldom set a code.
Usually they will restart after they cool down for an hour or so and run fine again for a while.
Let us know what you find.
Best to ya
Robyn

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

I wouldn't recommend a Sol-D unless you've read this topic (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=21795) (Click in colored text) in its entirety 1st.

Blessings!

[seth_95]

Ok well the dealership looked at my truck today and their were "no" stored codes. Lift pump is working fine. They ran the scan tool in many different modes and said there was low fuel pressure. They are saying it is the Fuel Injector pump!! 1200 parts 460 labor!!! They dont think its the pmd. They could not get it to fire up at all. So do you think its the pump or pmd. Should I get a new pmd??

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

I would NEVER install/allow to be installed a new IP without 1st trying a replacement FSD/PMD; failed FSD's almost never toss a code. My 95 pickup has a Kennedy extension harness & FSD I bought from him, mounted on a heat sink of my manufacture, located in front of the driver-side battery. Heath sells a unit that (I think) mounts on the aluminum gravel guard below the front of the engine. I'd buy the Kennedy harness & FSD cooler kit, or Heath's unit, & mount them as instructed. It's not impossibly difficult to snake the connector off your pump-mounted FSD (hence the term PMD - pump mounted driver), connect the cable to either unit, & see if you truck runs.

The 1st time my pickup ate an FSD was > 40K miles ago. There was & is NOTHING wrong with my IP, so I save a LOT of money by changing only the failed part, the FSD. Your symptoms are classic of a failed FSD, but of course that doesn't mean the IP (or one of many other things) might not ultimately be your problem. Long-term, remote-mounting your FSD costs you nothing - your pump-mounted part is going to fail someday anyway.

Blessings!

[seth_95]

Well I have not told the dealership any go ahead. I am really good friends with the owner and the mechanic. They did do a dealerworld search and found that the injection pump was replaced at 119000. Right before the 120000 mile deadline. I dont know if a new pmd was installed then, it didnt say so this could be the original one. The truck now has 161000 miles though. The bad thing is that I just bought this truck less than a week ago. So it has not gotton of to a good start. So should I buy a pmd kit no mater what. SS Diesel supply sells a pmd with a mount that mounts on the top right side of the intake manifold for about 420.00 Would this be a good route to go? If this is not it, should I pay for a new oem pump or a reman pump off the net such as SS Diesel Supply? or pay 1200 for oem?

[Robyn]

I would not touch a reman pump off the net unless it was through one of the dealers that advertise here at TDP.
Try a new PMD and remote mount first though.
That pump should not be gone so soon. roughly 40K on a fresh pump HMmmmmmmmmmm the pumps should run 100K easy and beyond mechanically speaking.
Dealers usually replaced the pumps as a unit with the PMD on them.
I have had several replaced on rigs and they always did it as a complete unit.
The last PMD that failed here got replaced with a SOL D unit and it still on the truck.
Great unit for eliminating the hot failures of the PMD.
Direct interchange for the PMD. Its, to use an overused phrase, "Plug and Play"
Robyn

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

For the money go with a new PMD and relocator. As for the diesel cover, (the one that says 6.5 Turbo Power) unless it is really cold where you are, you don't need it. It just helps to keep it nice and hot in that area. Hope this helps and that you get your 6.5 on the road again. You can probably get your pump rebuilt if you really want to, there is a few places that you can get it done.

[seth_95]

Well I went ahead and bought a pmd today. I put it on down at the dealership in the parking lot. PMD costed me 310.00! Ouch! Anyway I went ahead and put it back on the side of the pump because I needed it going but I need to buy a pmd cooler. Which one is a good one to go with? That ened up solving the problem. Runs like a champ.

[George Schweikle]

Hi seth_95,

Was the $310 PMD cost at a GM dealership?. Just wondering if any other suppliers have a better price.

My Injection pump was replaced under warranty in 2003 at 71,000 miles. The invoice doesn't list a new PMD part number so, from what I have learned here, this would be a good spare to have with 111,000 miles on the original component (especially since we have two long vacation trips scheduled for next year).

I have read everything regarding cooling, heat transfer, heat sinks, and remote mounting and assume a heat sink is needed regardless of mounting location. For my motorhome, I'm thinking of the big area between the radiator and grille opening. There's lots of airflow here after I enlarged the opening in the fiberglass body cap to match the grille opening.

Does anybody care to recommend their favorite supplier for a PMD, heat sink, and extension cable?


Well I went ahead and bought a pmd today. I put it on down at the dealership in the parking lot. PMD costed me 310.00! Ouch! Anyway I went ahead and put it back on the side of the pump because I needed it going but I need to buy a pmd cooler. Which one is a good one to go with? That ened up solving the problem. Runs like a champ.

[Robyn]

Glad to hear you are up and running.
This episode is a classic example of how the dealers will sell a complete pump to fix a PMD issue only.
That sems to be the only way they do business.
When I had PMd's fail on my 95 that all they would do. Back when I owned that rig TDP was not around and I was at the mercy of the dealer. HMM even then I had figured it out that the little black box (PMD) was the fault and mounting it in a cooler place was the answer but the dealer kept telling me it had to be on the pump?????????/
NOT
Get that cooler and remote mount your PMD up on the radiator header behind the RH battery.
Good luck

Robyn

[rjwest]

seth95, How long did it take you to replace the PMD?????
Any Problems???

[seth_95]

well it took be about 1hr 30mins with the right tools. The mechanic I knew loaned me his wobbly socket end and a torx 15. I also used the pump wrench to turn the pump so i could get the last screw on the top right. I made sure and marked the pump so I knew where to put it back to so it would screw up the timing and throw a SES light. What is the best cooler to go with?

[rjwest]

you should not have a problem getting a job as a mechanic!

That's FAST, !!!!!

And cudo's to the wrench who loaned you the tools....

[scoobysmak]

Humm well so I don't start a new thread like the thousands out there I figured I would post on the most recent of the classic PMD problems. I have only had my truck for a week and would like some advice. I have driven about 600 miles since I have owned it but yesterday I got stuck for the first time. Other than this the truck ran fine and always started with no problems. To give the story in full I left work yesterday afternoon and drove over to pick up a trailer, ran no problems. About 30 mins after I got there I started the truck and backed it up about 15ft to get it close to the trailer and I shut it off so I could adjust the gooseneck. About 20 min later I started the truck and completed putting the trailer on the truck this time I let the truck idle for about 20 min before I shut it off (I only drove over to get eveything ready for my trip next week so I never took the trailer around the block). The problems begin here, after of messing with stuff inside the trailer for about 2 hours I unhitched the trailer and started the truck, drove about 10 feet and got out to shut the tailgate. As soon as I touched the tailgate the truck just died like someone turned off the key. I jumped in to restart it and it would turn over but never a hint of trying to fire. Needless to say my first suspect is the PMD/FSD, then after reading here I find it could also be an OPS (optical sensor???, not sure) or a lift pump. I tried the "search" function and maybe I missed the mark but I would like to find out how I can determine which of these three problems could be my problem(will any codes be found that would pin point the problem, I have seen code 35 mentioned but at this moment I haven't learned how to test for codes). I still think it could be the PMD but I hate to second guess myself on something that someone might know, plus the fact that I could hold my hand on this and it was warm but I wasn't burnt after 10 seconds tells me I might look elsewhere. Just to give you a brief history of the truck, it blew a head gasket about a year and a half ago. At this time the heads were removed and rebuilt, a rebuilt IP was installed "with a warranty", new highflow water pump, new injectors, and a new PMD. The only thing is this PMD is mounted on a home made aluminum bracket just above the drivers side valve cover. I am sure other parts were probably replaced but I do not have the full listing. This is a 94, 6.5TD, 3500, 2wd, crewcab dually with 140k on it. The rebuild has happend in the last 2k. Any help would be appreciated. If anyone needs more information please let me know. Humm after searching maybe I should have found the 6.5TD section, maybe this could be moved to a thread in that section (possibly the STICKY)

[Robyn]

Sounds just like a classic PMD issue.

Many times after they cool well they will restart and run for a while.

Try pulling up any codes, if there are none logged its most likely the PMD.

You can check the lift pump easy enough by pulling the cover off the relay box in the engine bay.

Its far top right corner, left if your looking from the front.
There is a small fuse assembly on the far pass side of the box unplug it from its clip and touch the center of the fuse to the + post in the relay box and the pump should run.
If it runs just just crack the bleed valve on the filter to see if its pumping.

[a5150nut]

Robyns on the mark. Follow her advise.

And the OPS is oil pressure switch. At the back of the engine valley, behind the Glow relay and fuel filter. It powers the fuel lift pump. You can also check the fuel pump by laying under drivers side of truck while ideling. Reach up inside the frame rail just under the front of where the drivers seat is. You will be able to feel it pulsating if running. But cracking the bleed on top of the fuel filter is the way to tell if it is really pumping fuel. At idel you should see fuel come out and motor should keep running. You can also crack the water drain (petcock at thermostat housing) and run that hose into a bottle so you don't get fuel all over.

[scoobysmak]

Well because I was in a bit of a time delima to get my 6.5 running again I bit the bullet and after work got a PMD from the dealer (as we all know, ouch). I got back to the truck and made sure it wouldn't start and this was confirmed. I started to remove the old PMD and two of the pins were corroded, I cleaned the connector (some electrical cleaner and a toothbrush) and took an eraser to the pins on the PMD. I put the old PMD back in just to see and well after several tries it started and I am back up and running. I have a spare PMD I guess for that dreaded day. Thanks for everyones help, just wondering are there any other connectors I should be worried about.

[a5150nut]

"Thanks for everyones help, just wondering are there any other connectors I should be worried about."

Yes, all of them. Mainly ground connections from bat to block and right rear of block there is a cluster of connections. Battery terminals a critical to. Keep everything clean ( I used electic contact cleaner, then dielectric grease). I have used white grease on some connectors and havn't had many problems.

These motors take 100 cranking rpm before the computer will give fuel to the motor. Batteries must be in good shape. I have had NAPA gel cells for 3 years now. But at the first sign of cranking problems, checl ALL connections, check alternator output, and battery voltage. Low batteries have caused many starters to be replaced just to find it was the batteries.