View Full Version : Robyns 91 Burb gonna get a 6.5 TD
Well I sold my 94 Burb and now Im gonna get serious about my 91.
Tonight a landed a complete 92 6.5 TD with all the accessories including the turbo and all the serp drive goodies too from fan to flywheel for $800 and its only 5 minutes from home.
It came from a 92 3/4 ton 4x4 and they are stuffing a 4 cyl cummins in the truck.
The 6.5 was having some sort of a leak (head gasket???????) not sure but bubbling in the coolant tank but no water in the engine.
Engine garanteed not to have cracked block or bad crank ect.
A head crack ???/ dont know but easy to remedy.
The engine was a GM goodwrench engine and only has 80K on it since the local dealer dropped it in the truck. very very clean.
Has a 566 block in it.
NOW
I know I can set this up and run it as an NA without any issues.
How much troubles is it gonna be to get the turbo to clear all the AC stuff on the RH side of the engine bay.
Im sure you folks will give me plenty of input.
A tuned down 6.5 NA will make plenty of power but the TD with the mechanical pump would sure be a nice addition to my 91.
Do a BIG kick butt exhaust down the right side. A 5 inch exhaust would really look kewl. Really flow good too.
Talk to me peoples????????????????/
I can rebuild one in my sleep just never stuffed a TD in an older chassis before.
dieseldummy
12-11-2006, 21:29
Might want to get ahold of GMCTD for this one. He stuffed a 6.5 turbo setup into an older body style. The block should be a 599/929 or 506...
Its a 566 block.
Goodwrench replacement so who knows what they used.?????????
Thanks
RC
Speak of the devil, and who should appear?
Easiest route is to replace the '91 HVAC system with the unit from the '88 new-style body, where everything is self-contained inside the cab.
I blended several S-10 evap housings with the C\K housing to get turbo\down-pipe clearance, but the big cooler is no match when the turbo moves in next door - takes an over-blanket made from an Astro-van doghouse liner to compensate.
Other than that, it's bolt-for-bolt.
No way to route things to clear the HVAC box eh???
I hate to mess with that stuff. It all works so well there too.
I had been told that a P chassis exhaust manifold for the RH side moves the turbo forward some and slightly down????
Also I was told to use the P cross over pipe???
Does any of this have any merit???
I may decide to run the 6.5 as an NA engine as I really dont want to tear into the HVAC unit.
Also one fellow said that a corvett AC box would work to move things back a tad and give enough room to squeek things in?????
Any input on these other offerings???????
yes and as far as all the rest I see it should all be bolt for bolt.
The only mods will be alternator plug in and the Power steering high pressure hose might need a tweeking.
The fuel system will need an electric pump installed to replace the mechanical one we will lose when the 6.2 leaves home.
Should be a nice spot back upstream that will make a great home for an electric pump.
All the goodies are available to make this a clean and safe set up that will look near factory.
Without looking yet
Could the turbo be spun 180 on the flange and the cold side turned on the housing to aim up and then build new cold air tube to connect to the manifold. Air cleaner would need a bit of squaring and jigging too.
The oil feed and drain back can be tweeked to hook up.
Thats what they made tubing and welders for.
This would put the down pipe up front farther and away from the AC box
The 6.5 was having some sort of a leak (head gasket???????) not sure but bubbling in the coolant tank but no water in the engine.
Engine garanteed not to have cracked block or bad crank ect.
A head crack ???/ dont know but easy to remedy.
Exactly the issue I had with the 6.5L TD in my motorhome. That problem was diagnosed to be the head gasket; however, head removal revealed four scuffed cylinders (you ARE anxious to hear that, aren't you?), so I opted for replacing the engine with all-new from Peninsular, since my 6.5L TD was one of the very first (late '91, very early '92), and it's pushing 16K lbs. of high frontal-area motorhome. The block hasn't been tested yet, but the symptoms and the evidence indicated a leaky head gasket, and there was some evidence that was the issue.
There was one crack on one head between the valves, but the mechaninc noted that was usual (actually better than, as most he'd seen had cracks between two or three per head). Heads tested perfect, but I had 'em surfaced, too.
dieseldummy
12-11-2006, 22:32
Let it burn if it catches fire.
That's great! I've been ridiculed by those on another board for that exact saying...
A banks manifold will move the turbo forward, but they the crosover will have to be redone... Maybe you could find a banks pipe too? I'd like to have an old body style with the newer '88+ HVAC stuff. No more reason for the vacumm pump...
Another thought.
Fabricate a little adapter to move the turbo up slightly and forward some to give clearance to the AC unit and then fab a custom down pipe to clear the rest of the crap.
A four bolt flanged unit that would allow the turbo to clear the AC pump and come forward and over to the center more too maybe even turn it slightly ??????????????
Im am going to have to look this over some. The banks units fit ok so maybe there is a way to CHEAT at this game.
Different turbo.
I AINT GONNA CHOP THE AC BOX :0(
Robyns sits sniveling !!!!! :0(
This deal is good in that the fellow who is selling me the engine will make it good if its junk.
I could buy a 6.2 J engine from him thats a good one but why if I can have a 6.5TD ??
He owns a local diesel repair shop and I KNOW WHERE HE LIVES Hey hey.
He must have enough 6.5 parts to build 50 of the things without even scrounging.
My HVAC stuff works just like new.
The controls are smooth and it all works sweet so I hate to mess with it.
My hope is to have everything ready for a quicky swap and not have to tie my rig up for an extended time period
john8662
12-11-2006, 22:53
What's wrong with the 6.2 in the burb?
Find yerself a used Banks setup for what you're gonna pay for the 6.5TD and keep yer A/C.
Just a thought...
J
Yeah - what's 300cc's, amongst Diesels?
Well now
The 6.2 has 194K on the clock now.
It needs a pump and injectors to bring it back up to snuff.
Its a C motor so its sort of anemic anyway.
The little critter has some oil leaks and needs to come out to really do a clean job on it and to spruce it up nicely.
I have looked for over 5 years to find a 91 Burb diesel that I could even buy.
Out here you just dont see the later old style trucks with diesels for sale much. Also this truck is like new inside so its well worth some TLC and maybe some improvements.
The 6.5 I have is a 92 so it has none of the dreaded things like PMDitis
I dont want to have my truck down for a protracted time frame doing work on the thing.
Its been my luck that once you get into a project it always ends turning far more complex. ( The replace the seal and find that the shaft is worn out and the widget is warped)
If Im gonna build a nice engine that will power this truck for several years why not take my time this winter while Im not pressed and tinker with a nice 6.5 and have it ready so when the weather clears off around May I can just swap them in a weekend and be done with it. With that plan I can have any and all items all boxed up and sitting in the shop ready to go. (hoses,clamps, new antifreeze)
I can spread the cost out over several months and shop for some things on ebay and or??? and not be pressed like I was on the other 94 that we still have when it took the dump last spring
All ideas are on the table at this time.
I can freshen the 6.5 and run it as a NA with all the original accessory drives and equipment.
I can rebuild it and run it as a TD and make the needed changes to allow the serp drive to be used.
Maybe find a Banks set up, maybe modify some things myself, I do have a Bridgeport and a lathe sitting in the shop along with welders and stuff so making things is all a real possibility.
Just looking for any and all idea and notions at this point.
A very elastic situation right now with many things to think about.
The 6.2 runs OK but mileage is not where it should be and a few other little details are not up to my desired level.
With my 94 gone as of yesterday I now need the 91 truck as my everyday driver.
Pat has the other 94 Burb and uses it daily to get to the office.
I do have the 86 dually if need be in a pinch but that sucker eats too much for a daily driver unless its absolutely nesessary.
Anyway
Thanks for any and all input.
Im sure we will beat this thing heartily for the next few days and many good ideas have and will come to the table to be beaten.
Will be interesting to see what finally shakes out.
With the 6.5 having all the accessories it would be kewl to use it as it is for sure.
Best to all
Robyn
john8662
12-12-2006, 11:20
A couple more things to consider...
The serpentine drives are not compatible with the Banks manifold and turbo position. So if you consider a Banks manifold (for that body style) and install the serpentine stuff off the '92 then you'll end up with some problems.
To turbo would be nice to help power a truck with big tires and an unknown gear ratio (could be too tall for tires installed).
But getting the turbo off the 6.5TD to fit is the problem.
I see the dilemma, wanting to swap out verses doing a rebuild and getting the time to build then install.
Most likely, both of the engines you're playing with will need machine work, and will need to be bored. The 6.2 at that mileage and work-load will have cylinder wear pointing needing to be bored. The 6.5 will likely be the same way, as it's probably been used hard, because it obviously failed leading to it's removal (head gasket, etc.).
Grab the 6.5TD at any rate and pull 'er down and see what you got.
I'd just build the rig for a N/A 6.5 personally and leave the v-belts in place, easier.. But Serpentine is cool. I just don't like to have to remember different years of trucks just to get the parts for the truck I'm driving (if it's all '91, then thats all you have to tell the parts warehouse guy).
J
I did some mock up this morning on the Hummer kit as I can get right close to the engine and I did some serious measuring of the 91 engine bay and area around the RH inner fender and AC Box
I can build an adapter that will allow the turbo to come up slightly and forward and it will also (IF you are looking down from the top facing the front of the truck) allow turning the turbo counterclockwise to allow the down pipe to go through the inner fender above the front axle.
The oil feed and drain backs can be modified easily enough as can the air feed pipe to the existing top hat.
The Cold side of the turbo can be rotated easily so this may be of use too.
I can fabricate this adapter with heavy wall 3-1/2" schedule 80 hydraulic pipe and make the flanges from 5/8" steel plate and machine them flat after the welds cool.
There are many styles of ready made bends that are seemless that are already chamfered and ready to weld together.
Cut hack chop turn and weld and poof, instant adapter kit.
I can basically build it right on the engine in the hummer as its easy to get to and I can measure enough on the truck to keep things away from the serp drive and the AC box.
There is plenty of room. May have to get creative with the location of the coolant recovery tank and an air filter but there is plenty of room to do this.
I will need to design some support bars to stabilze the turbo as it will be cantilevered out more to the right and to the front and up some.
The stock crossover will fit fine on the exisiting tubo manifold too.
Now I am sure that some engineering formula will come into play here that will say this is not a perfect fix but I'll bet it will work fine.
Having the tools to create things can enhance ones ability to let dreams wander some for sure.
Hey this is fun
Thanks
Robyn
Oh, yeah - them fire wrenches and arc wrenches are to die for, fer sure.............
A couple years ago I was bored to tears and it was my birthday, I jumped in my truck and went to the big city and bought myself a branny spankin new Tig welder. YES YES happy birthday to me.
Having a torch, various types of welders as well as the mill and lathe there are few projects (unless the parts get too big) that I can't handle.
I would really like to have an 8ft press brake that could handle up to 3/8" steel and maybe a shear would be nice too.
Robyn sits dreaming of a tools christmas.
Got a plasma cutter for christmas last year from the kids. Whoa, that sucker is way kewl. Makes real short work of sheet metal, sure kewl to be able to cut aluminum without using a saw or shear.
Son inlaw brings his motocross buddies around when they need their bikes fixed or welded back together after some Kamikaze stunt.
The young fellows are a real nice bunch, most are firemen with the dept my Son inlaw works at..
These kids have talked me into making more trick bike parts than I care to think about. When one wants a goody they all have to have one.
More darned aluminum shavings in the chip buckets around here.
Time for a 6.5 turbo adapter kit me thinks.
Me, I sit dreamin' about a woman of your particular 'bent' for Christmas - few and far between, tho, usually found in numbers comparable to hen's teeth.
Oh, well - guess I'll just have to settle for some shiny new electro-mechanical trinket, or several......................
Flattery, HMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmm
I will take that as a compliment.
Robyn sends gmctd a cyber hug and a merry Christmas ;0)
I can build an adapter that will allow the turbo to come up slightly and forward and it will also (IF you are looking down from the top facing the front of the truck) allow turning the turbo counterclockwise to allow the down pipe to go through the inner fender above the front axle.
At least you do not have saddle bags on your suburban. I thought about going that route with my truck to run my 4" exhaust. I ended up running 3" all the way to the transfer case and step up to 4" right next to it. 5" will be huge; just don't park the suburban too long animals my take up residence in your exhaust. :D I also ran just a down pipe for a while that exited within 16" of the ground; clears a path through leafs and leaves an interesting dark mark down one's driveway. Good luck should be fun when done.
aloharovers
12-13-2006, 12:48
I am very interested in your project. I am this {} close to replacing the 5.7 gasser in my 92
trbankii
12-13-2006, 18:25
I'll second gmctd - have to make due with the MIG, TIG, plasma, and other equipment out in the shop to keep me company... :)
Well, the romance is off, anyway - just had some exciting new curves on my lap all evening.
Yep - got a new slim-line classical nylon-string guitar, early Christmas present.
Had to get it early, because the '30's songs I'm planning on playing for my mother at Christmas time are more expressive in nylons.
Sorry, Robyn - after guitar and tools, you would be first, tho. ;)
DmaxMaverick
12-13-2006, 22:09
......because the '30's songs I'm planning on playing for my mother at Christmas time are more expressive in nylons...... ;)
Now that draws a picture.......
I wont even touch that one. NOT EVEN
But thanks anyway ;0)
Not me, dipstick - the guitar........the guitar!;)
DmaxMaverick
12-14-2006, 00:33
I know. Just couldn't resist.
Too funny....When it came time for name calling, you chose an engine part...
Yeah - an old line from Dukes of Hazzard, Smokey and the Bandit, etc.
And, now, I'll quit hi-jackin' Robyn's thread....................:cool:
Oh just keep it up, Im sitting here LMAO with all this bantering.
are not all the same . Found one from a 95 G 3500 N/A 6.5 that had the AC comp. , vac pump and pwr steering pump all stacked on top of each other and mounted on the left side of the engine . The right side had only the alt. mounted and possibly a mount for a second alt. as well . I'm trying to put a Banks in with a serp system on an 86 and this looked very good . You will have to run the pump that came with the belt drve as the original pump has a fitting that points directly at the frame rail . The mount for the alt. has a bracket that has a support that is in the way of the turbo , but I was going to loose that part anyway . That's as far as I got as I'm now looking for yet another block that isn't cracked !!
The engine I got has the Alternator on the drivers side up top with the steering pump under it and the AC pump is pass side top. It did not have a vacuum pump so I will use the one from the 6.2 in the back to run the heater stuff and to fool the EGR and the computer.
I have thing fairly well figured out as to how to get the original turbo to fit and work well with the Classic body style.
The coolant recovery tank may have to get moved, not sure yet.
An air filter will have to be custom built from some other parts as well as the connecting tubes and hoses to get the huff into the engine.
My have to scour the bone yards and scarf up some piping from a stroke or something.
If not maybe some custom fabrication to get it all looking at itself.
The basics will be easy and the little stuff will be pretty much a no brainer, just a matter of making it work.
I just may try and wiggle an aftercooler in the front some way while im at it.
Heck while ya gotcha tools out ya might as well cut a little more dontcha think??
:0)
Goona be kewl
Robyn
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