View Full Version : My SOL D Got a bad rap
We went out to start the 94 this morning and its 25F and the sucker spins real fast but no start at all.
I crawl under the hood and had Pat turn the key on and off a couple times and to my supprise the fuel shutoff solenoid is not clicking.
I had Pat reglow the sucker and spin it still no start, I grabbed my pocket knife and tapped the solenoid and the engine popped to life instantly.
HMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm bet me the solenoid has an issue.
Its on the list to get replaced.
I am thinking it was the fault all along and not the Sol D or at least since I rewired the thing to give the Sol D full voltage.
Nice to finally know for sure.
Robyn
Well I am sorry to say I was wrong.
I replaced the fuel shutoff solenoid yesterday and this morning dawned clear and cold 20F (Not cold by some) and the Burb would not talk to me.
HMMMMMMMMM lots of cranking and some cussing too.
Fuel solenoid could be felt clicking.
Used a small heat gun to warm the SOL D and Poof started in an instant with hardly a turn of the engine.
I have emailed Remarq with the issue.
All the voltages are great so its not the canned excuse that the truck wiring is poor.
I am going to sit down on these guys untill I get some satisfaction.
The Sol D works fine all during the hot weather without so much as a whimper.
Temps below 30 start getting sketchy.
Below 25 and its a sure bet it wont go.
Some of you electrical engineers???? What components are in this thing that are so sensitive to the cold.
Electricity in general hates cold but electronics hate the heat????
Any ideas why just enough heat to make the box warm to the touch will make it work.
I could see maybe a broken circuit board trace but that would most likely cause intermitent issues as well.
We Shall See
Robyn
We had cold issues with potted printed circuit modules, where the epoxy contraction would pull component(s) loose, then restore continuity when warmed up - or not, in some cases.
Happy New Year, Missy
Well I am suspicious of several things but I do have an email off to Remarq and I will get something going on here.
This device is good but has issues and these guys can certainly fix it.
The circuit board could just as easily be placed in a firm jell of some sort and then epoxy flowed over that.
The jell would allow things to float a bit ????????????????
This is crap this way. Hell I have a propane torch stuffed under the seat just in case I come out late from somewhere and the sucker wont pop off. ;0(
Happy new year
Robyn
Alias Missy good wench
arveetek
01-01-2007, 11:09
I went all last winter and this winter so far with nary a problem with my stock replacement Stanadyne FSD mounted on an FSD cooler. Always starts no matter what the weather or temperature.
Casey
I think I may get an extension cord and a new PMD and mount it up front by the left battery.
I really want to push on Remarq to fix this though as the thing works sweet except in the cold.
I went out this morning and it was mid 30's F and the thing fired on the first liitle crank. Ran fine.
Just gets balky down in the 20'sF
B.A.M.6.2
01-01-2007, 11:43
just a thought off the top of my head (i hear you laughing) maybe it's the fuel content. i've heard of fuel "waxing" in the colder regions of the country. Have you tried an additive for this? I think this would be a reasonable step since it sounds like you have covered the rest.
Ok
Here is the drill, After glowing it several times and still no go I used a propane torch at a few inches away from the Sol D box to just bring the temp of the thing up a little until it was warm to the touch.
Wham the sucker starts right up.
Plugged the truck in the next night and stuffed it in the garage too.
Took the Sol D and tossed it in the freezer.
Trotted it out the next morning and hooked it up and NO start even with a warm truck.
Warm The Sol D and all is well.
The thing is possesed I think.
Some electronic component is not working when it gets cold.
wade-ve7trw
01-02-2007, 09:54
bad sodlier joints (poor flow of sodlier )in and around the component leads will do what you describe. Cure--take apart and resodlier all components on board put back together and try the freezer trick again--common trouble shooting in the electronic trade for intermitant headaches. use sodlier for electronics -rosin core not acid core.
It's not that electricity hates the cold, it's just that a lot of things that run on electricity hate the cold...
I've long suspected there were 2 issues with the sol-d based on early reports. The only one they (Remarq) ever acknowledged was the voltage issue. My bet is this one (cold inactivity) is the one that's causing most of the problems...
Go get 'em, Robyn!
I was always under the impression that electronics was not really bothered by cold.
Warm this sucker up to 40 and its a happy camper
Wade
I really dont think its a solder problem because once the sucker is the least bit warm its fine without any hicups at all.
Seems to me that a broken solder joint would cause an intermitent issue.
wade-ve7trw
01-03-2007, 02:29
robyn--bad soldier joints are two different metals and they contract and expand at different rates. I have a lot experience with this in another occupation i have a degree in electronic and communications.
Wade
Just got off the phone with Remarq.
They are sending a new unit down to replace the one in ?????
The new unit has an extra wiring harness that connects to the battery to make sure the voltage issue is not a problem.
HMmmmmmmmmmmm makes me think this problem has been a lot more rampant than they are letting on?????
Anyway.
Thanks for all the great input.
I will keep everyone posted as to the outcome of things
I should try the frezzer trick. Has not been cold much here in Indiana for truck to get cold. Cold last year and truck was ok.
Well see what you have to say about the new unit.
I am thinking that now that they have added the extra 12V feed system to the unit that things will be fine.
We shall see though.
Every time its failed to start either applying heat to the unit or simply jumping the batteries off of a rig with a good 14V coming from the Alt.
The rig will start.
The cold certainly affects electron flow and can cause some components to not fuction correctly.
Its my understanding that the Original PMD can fuction to very low voltages.
Maybe 5V and still fire the pump up.
On a cold morning I usually wait about 2-3 seconds after the glow light goes out to hit the starter as it gives the line voltage time to recover from the drain from the glow system.
This has seemed to help a lot.
Normally when temps are 40F or above things are just SNAP and its running.
RC
ronniejoe
01-06-2007, 12:50
The reason that I refuse to endorse the product is the cold no-start issue. Every time this happened to me, I simply unplugged the SOL-D and plugged in the Stanadyne FSD. Fired right up.
This is even true when, in one instance, a power drain was left on over night on a 15F night. The Burb cranked slowly and would not fire on the SOL-D. Switched them, still cranked very slowly, but fired right up.
I doubt that their changes will deal with that event properly.
Briefly: OEM PMD has analog device, operates at very low voltage, voltage lower than the starter will turn engine.
Sol'd, threshhold devise, must have minimum voltage to operate and
sensitive to temperature.
Therefore The more degraded the electrical system ( battery's ,etc )
the more prone the Sol'd to nostart. IE, batteries that would not start an engine with a Sol'd may start with OEM PMD, Heating the SOL'D Lowers
the Threshold voltage, and therefore the engine may start...
1 Other Item: Good batteries will drop about .5 volts when glow plugs cycle. As the battery's become aged the delta voltage drop will increase,
Untill with 1 aged and 1 with a shorted cell the voltage would drop
over 1.5 volts with the glow plugs on , and , naturally engine cranking very slow, BUT OEM PMD would start truck, sol'd would not.
Bottom Line SOL'd is a very good product with in it's operating limits....
My opinion , the engine ran better & started better
But I could not accept the CB noise....
COld Solder: MHO the problem with the standyne PMD's was cold solder at the transister legs..I think you will see less failed PMD's as the poor quality
units reach there premature EOL.
OP's , not to brief.
OH!, The Digital Voltmeter is extremely usefull gage, Mine is wired directly
to the 2 batteries , the buss voltage and the camper batteries( through
a Rotary sw) I hate to get stuck in the boonies...
moondoggie
01-06-2007, 16:40
Good Day!
"OEM PMD has analog device, operates at very low voltage, voltage lower than the starter will turn engine. Sol'd, threshhold devise, must have minimum voltage to operate and sensitive to temperature." Inquiring minds have to know: what type of devices are you describing? (I'm guessing Stanadyne used bipolar transistors & maybe Sold uses FET's, but I just gotta know!)
"SOL'd is a very good product with in it's operating limits...." I respectfully disagree. IMHO that's exactly why it's NOT a very good product - a very good product would work within the operating limits of my truck, NOT what their designers decided.
Blessings!
HMMMM
Well the SOl D will handle the heat well and never miss a beat.
The new Sol D units have another circuit added with a wiring harness that goes directly to the LH battery.
The unit when switched on by the ignition will activate the auxilliary feed and thus remedy the issue by supplying full bat voltage.
I believe the testing that Remarq did was probably ok but they did not take into consideration that so many variables are going to pop up on the vast cross section of trucks in the field.
At least they are trying to remedy the problem.
When I talked to Remarq last week they were very helpful and did not try to sidestep the issue.
They are sending me a replacement unit free of charge. (Except shipping, big deal)
As long as the temp is above 35F I have had zero issues. The truck runs great and just does what its supposed to do.
I have owned several rigs with DS4 pumps and have only had one truck that did not lose a PMD I only owned that rig for a year and a half so that's not a fair test.
One 95 we had went through 5 pumps/pmd combinations while on warranty.
I offed the truck before the warranty ran out and got a 454 Burb.
The 94 Burb we have now is a great rig. Just flipped up 250K this weekend.
Still has the original engine (Freshened in may) with most of its original parts.
4L80 is still factory and has never been out ( Fingers crossed)
All in all I think the Sol D is a good product and as it evolves it will become better.
I will be watching things after the new one gets here and will report any issues I see.
I think if we compare the overall performance one would have to say the SOL D is possibly a better product than the Stanadyne PMD simply because of all the heat related failures of the stock unit.
Time will tell.
I'm still not buying it.
Electrons work better in the cold, not the other way around. It's batteries that don't like the cold, and they are chemical, not electrical.
Heating a "good" device *should* not make it work any better.
Freezing is a common technique to isolate faulty components.
clem_acc
01-09-2007, 19:29
I'm still not buying it.
Freezing is a common technique to isolate faulty components.
I also agree that it sounds like a contact issue or cold solder joint.
I can understand a failure from heat but that range of temperature into the teens, even approaching 0F should not cause a component failure, but like quoted earlier the expansion and contraction of unlike materials could be just enough to cause a failure. I've heard of relays and such failing in low temp situations but i am sure this would be solid state. As far as freezing to test for component testing, the only time that was effective for us testing pcb's was the bad chips would not heat up and would hold the frost longer for a visual ID.
I have a second stanadyne mounted on the firewall on the drivers side with a vent hole emptying into the air well as a backup but have been lucky so far. The pump and pmd in use are only a year old and I have only owned this truck for a few months. My first TD so i am sure that i will have many Q's.
Well I got to the bottom of it.
Talking with my brother inlaw who is an electrical engineer.
The SOL D uses MOSFET's
What is happening is the MOSFET has a threshold voltage to make it activate and the colder it gets the higher that voltage has to be.
The vehicle wiring is such that the voltage coming up to the SOL D is low anyway due to the way the trucks are wired. (Lower than it could be due to the design of the system)
With a cold system the voltage drops even more after a glow cycle and then the starter climbing on board.
All said the voltage drops below the minimum threshold to get the Mosfet to work. Adding just a small amount of heat lowers the voltage required and boom it starts and runs fine.
I have been plugging it in the last few cold nights and all is very well.
The new SOL D thats coming has an extra wiring harness to hook to the battery.
HMMMMM tells me they knew all well what was going on and how to fix it from the gitgo ;0(
ronniejoe
01-15-2007, 08:38
The use of MOSFET's and their limitations has been discussed in earlier threads on this device. The new wiring will fix some of the cold start problems, but not all. Even in the summer, if you were to leave something on and drain the battery down, there will be a threshold below which the SOL-D will not start, but the Stanadyne FSD will.
They knew this since it is a designed in limitation. If they had tested this device as they claim they did, they would have run into this in their testing. The thing that really irks me is that they blamed it on the truck and the wiring when they knew they had a functionality gap from the beginning. I would be more inclined to be accepting of this limitation if they had been honest about it from the start.
I don't care how bad the wiring is on the truck or how low the battery voltage is. If the factory FSD will start the truck, the "improved" aftermarket "fix" had better be able to as well. That's the point they failed to grasp in all of this.
moondoggie
01-15-2007, 11:05
Good Day!
What he said.
I don't consider a product to be an improvement when purchasing it simply switches one set of problems for another. I had high hopes when the Sol-D came out. It's unfortunate they didn't get it right.
We all gotta make our best guess on how to gamble on such things. Getting all the info out is terrific - we can make informed choices. For me, I'm gambling on a Stanadyne FSD mounted in front of the driver-side battery. From reading all the topics & posts about this part over the years (a LOT of reading), I'm betting the drive transistors were never most of the problem with the Stanadyne FSD - the intense under-hood heat was, which caused the poor mechanical design to flex to the point that the drive transistors eventually broke their solder joints.
I have two of these in the junk box at home. I can't wait until I've got time to mill down to the pins, then burn out the potting, & see if I've got cold solder joints.
Blessings!
(signature in previous post)
RJ
I know you got it right.
I really think the unit is better at holding up under the heat, BUT as you say the votage is the issue. I had a starter get a bit slugish and sure enough NO start due to low voltage with the bad starter.
After talking with Remarq on several ocassions they still come right back to the same BS that all their testing proved that the unit will function well even when cold.
Sure it will if you jump the rig with 14.5 volts off another rig with some big assed batteries.
I did that the other day when it would not go at 20F
Took right off once the line voltage was high.
The other night we stayed late at our gun shop and then went to a movie up the street. Burb had been sitting since 10 in the morning out front of the store.
Its 10:30 pm when we came back to the rig, it wont start, Im pissed.
Scrounge through the glove box and come up with one of those chemical heat packs you stick on your back. YUP wrapped the Sol D and let it sit for about 10 minutes, Pooooof off we went.
I know Remarq could just send a pack of heat wraps to get you going in the cold. ?????????????? ;0(
I am hoping the new unit they are sending me with the extra battery leads will be an improvement.
After loosing several PMD's over the years I still feel more comfortable with the Sol D in the hot weather than the Stanadyne unit though.
Just too bad these guys cant at least just fess up and say "Hey we have an issue and we will fix it"
Does not seem to be the case though.
I have been promissed a new unit by the end of January.
WE SHALL SEE.
My old 91 6.2 just fires up real fine even without any block heat.
17F yesterday and it had sat for 4 days without running.
I am just tired of the stress and issues of all this crap.
I just want to turn the key and start the beast and have the scenery go by.
MY KINGDOM FOR A RIG THAT WORKS RIGHT ALL THE TIME ;0)
Moondoggie
Very well may be the solder joints
taking one apart would sure be worth doing just to see if the theory holds true
moondoggie
01-16-2007, 11:19
Good Day!
"taking one apart would sure be worth doing just to see if the theory holds true" This has already been done. A long time ago there was a REAL LONG topic about the FSD. I don't know if it's still available or not, it may have gotten lost when the folks that used to host our topics lost most of the 6.5TD forum.
There were only a couple folks (from memory) that went this far. It required milling down through the potting to the ends of the drive transistor leads, then burning (with a Pace desolderer or similar) down to the pads on the PCB. THEN you could see that the solder joint was broken, & resolder the drive transistors. The few that actually did this were able to fix their Stanadyne units this way. I hope to some day do the same to my two failed units. Be assured, if/when I do, the Page will be the 2nd to know. ;)
The second well-known problem was/is the four hex nuts holding the drive transistors loosening. Many folks fixed Stanadyne units by simply tightening these hex nuts. This leads me (& others) to believe that the heat cycling is a LOT more of the problem with the Stanadyne than actual component failure. The thought is that these intense heat/cool cycles expand/contract the FSD, breaking the drive transistors solder joints.
That's why I borrowed RJ's idea & mounted my Stanadyne FSD in front of the driver-side battery. We'll see - fortunately my driving may be greatly reduced if/when I get back into my home office, so it may be longer than anyone cares before I find out if this location works better. I had relocated the FSD from the pump to a home-made FSD cooler, mounted on the IM. This subsequently failed, as did a 2nd Stanadyne FSD (~ 40K miles?). The 3rd got mounted as described above.
Yes, my failed units could be due to poor homemade FSD cooler design, although I doubt it. I used to be an Electronics Technician, so am not completely unfamiliar with semiconductor thermal management. The heat sink I used is ~ the same size as commercially-available FSD cooler heat sinks. It was mounted on the IM identical to the commercially-available units; this same heat sink is now in front of my driver-side battery, with the fins vertically orientated. So far so good...
I have absolutely no intention of telling you or anyone else what to do. On the other hand, I can't let it pass if it's contended that exchanging one set of problems for another is a better choice. These forums, & this topic, allow us to do a good job of offering clarifying information so all us members can make our own informed choice - IMHO, the best possible situation. :D
Blessings!
(signature in previous post)
Resy assured that if I cant get this issue taken care of I will be at least going to a Stanadyne box for cold weather.
Seems like a bunch of crap all the way around but Oh well.
Since the introduction of the electronics in a big way on our trucks we have to deal with issues as best we can.
The manufactures have proven time and again that they will only limp it along until they can phase out the design and move on to another set of problems.
Strap an extra glow plug to the Sol-D, problem solved!
Let's see, a device with voltage requirements that increase with decreasing temperature, and a battery with voltage output decreasing with decreasing temperature....
I started my '93 one morning when it was about 5 degrees out. One battery was toast and you could count the pistons coming to TDC - one mississippi two mississippi three varoom!
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAa
OH yess
The 94 I just sold a few weeks back would do that.
The old 84 Blazer would do that too.
The whole Idea with the SOL D is irksome BUT I consider the failure of a regular PMD to be more than an anoyance.
The no start cold is a PITA BUT I can deal with it and get around it.
That does not excuse the maker from fixing it though.
Having a PMD fail on the road is costly and you are never ready to fix it.
You know the routine, dressed to the nines, raining, dark, late at night
all the above!!!
Coming out on a cold morning from the house and a no go pisses me off but I can make it go in a few minutes.
Heck now I have it down to a science, plug the truck in and keep a couple chemical hand warmers ready to go in the console box for that long day into the night.
BS should not need to though.
I like my 91 more every day.
Just to try something I unhooked one battery on the 91 this morning at 20F and the sucker popped right to life with one glow and a couple feeble turns.
All new Burbs should come with a hand crank!!!
All new Burbs should come with a hand crank!!!
Come on! You don't really mean that, do you? :rolleyes:
(Or should we go bact to 4 cylinders, 7:1 compression and manual spark advance...)
Robyn sits giggling wildly and smirking
John I thought you had my sense of humor figured out by now.
I have had far too many sore arms from helping the old timers around here with there antique cars during shows.
Let the electric starter do the job thank you.
Hmmm a manual lever to rotate the pump a few degrees, MAYBEEEEEEEEEEE. ;0)
Robyn heads off to the shop to whittle on a cable and bracket for the pump advance???????????? grinning ;0)
But just to reaferm my position, this morning I took the 98 explorer that belonged to grandpa to town to get a new battery for the BOBCAT.
The electric 4x4 broke in the thing about 3 miles fgrom the ranch in the snow.
Now all it does is make nasty grinding and nashing noises.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCKKKK!!!!!!!!!
I swear all I did is turn the little knob so it pointed at 4x4 High and all was well untill I headed home.
Gotta love it :0)
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