Holding my Water

[MaxACL]

It's time (again) to change the antifreeze in the beast. Is Distilled water better then drinking water? I don't want to use tap water because of the chemicals in it.

Mike

On Edit: How about Spring Water?

[77TransAm]

I've definitely seen a difference in long-term use in my own vehicles using distilled water vs. tap water. Being lazy, I used Texaco long life anti-freeze and distilled water when I rebuilt the engine in a car I bought from a junkyard. Three years later, you could still look down into the radiator and see the tube ends all the way down; the mixture was that clear.

At work, in fleet use, we used pre-mix 55 gallon drums. I don't know what type of water they used in the mix, so that experience doesn't help much here.

[Mark Rinker]

Evian in all my rigs. :)

Pretty scary when we drink what we won't put in our trucks...but then I have always known that I have better service histories on my trucks than on my body at the doctor's office(s) I visit!!!

[trbankii]

Distilled water has no mineral content - spring water or other "drinking" waters have the mineral content. Probably not as bad as tap water, but I'd still go with distilled.

Last time I went out to buy some I went four places to find it. Everyone sells "drinking" water but when I asked at the one grocery store I just got blank looks when I asked for distilled water and they could not understand the difference.

[DmaxMaverick]

I get distilled water at WalMart for about $.68 a gallon. I can't imagine why someone would use a less effective water at 4x the price. If you have a roadside problem and no other options, any water will do (even "processed" water), but the key is getting the minerals out of the system ASAP. Minerals contained in drinking or tap water promote scale and corrosion. Using it won't cause any short term issues, but the minerals and salts will depleat the additive package in the coolant much quicker.

[conway]

Anyone have any experience with Evans? Is it worth installing?

[MikeC]

Conway,

My experience was that it did not seem to transfer heat as well as DexCool/water mix. No real data, but in similar conditions the engine seemed to hold more heat with the Evans.

After I had it in I then realized that there were several issues with being on the road. If anything happens that you lose any coolant, you need an adequate ammount to replace it. It cannot be mixed with other coolants or water.

I ended up draining it out and flushing the system in order to put DexCool/water back in.

I have DexCool in the DMax and the Evans is now used in my compact diesel tractor.

Mike

[conway]

Mahalo that's the kind of info I was looking for

[bbugg]

Distilled water is corrosive, acidic, agressive. It will eat through a copper pipe and leach out lead solder. This is why home distillers or Reverse Osmosis sytems use a separate plastic or ceramic faucet fed by a plastic (not copper) tube. It will also eat through an aluminum radiator unless the antifreeze is capable of neutralizing it.

[MaxACL]

bbugg,

If distilled is pure, where does the corrosive and acid come from?

Mike

[DmaxMaverick]

bbugg,

If distilled is pure, where does the corrosive and acid come from?

Mike

That's what I was thinking. Distilled water is hardly even conductive. Should be only H2O in it.

[jaymeangreen]

bbugg,

If distilled is pure, where does the corrosive and acid come from?

Mike
According to the US Environmental Protection Agency, "Distilled water, being essentially mineral-free, is very aggressive, in that it tends to dissolve substances with which it is in contact.

Notably, carbon dioxide from the air is rapidly absorbed, making the water acidic and even more aggressive. Many metals are dissolved by distilled water."

i did not know this until i just read it.:eek:

[Stlheadake]

OK admittedly I am no chemist. I am however internet literate. So I too searched for distilled water on the net and found all the lists about drinking distilled water. I found a lot of web sites supported by bottled water makers touting the dangers of drinking distilled water.

I couldn't find anything posted by either the FDA or EPA related to the corrosive properties of distilled water. IF this rumor is true, there SHOULD be a whole bunch of gear heads out there screaming about how they were told to use distilled water in their cars, trucks, motorcycles, and tractor radiators.

I have ALWAYS been told to use distilled water in a radiator, and I ALWAYS have. I personally have never had an issue with any vehicle radiator related to corrosion, or distilled water causing a problem.

I just think this is a case of misinterpreting some shadow information readily available on the web. I just can't believe it until someone can point me to some definitive information on this.

I say use the distilled water and use it with confidence!

P.S. I just looked back through my post, and I feel like I should point out that I am in no way trying to flame or start any problems. This info is just so counter to common practice...

[jaymeangreen]

http://www.ionizers.org/distilled_water.html this is where i read it. im no scientist so take it as you see fit :D

[Stlheadake]

That site is run by someone who is a competitor to purveyors of distilled water. So they likely have a bias towards distilled water. Also, everything else on the site is related to drinking distilled water only.

My point is/was that folks have been using distilled water in radiators for YEARS with no problems (IF they had problems, they aren't pointing the finger at the water).

Putting Distilled water in radiators is just common practice.

[MaxACL]

Well, I used distilled water a few years ago when I first changed the antifreeze. No problems as I'm sure that the orange stuff does it's job.

I'd use Shiner Beer but there are laws in Texas! See I drink Shiner and my filters are always clean:)

Mike

[Stlheadake]

Well, I used distilled water a few years ago when I first changed the antifreeze. No problems as I'm sure that the orange stuff does it's job.

I'd use Shiner Beer but there are laws in Texas! See I drink Shiner and my filters are always clean:)

Mike

Mike, I was in San Antonio a few years ago and tried my first Shiner. I was hooked! I have taken a liking to the Blond variety. There are a few places that I can get it here in Anheiser land, but it isn't easy. It seems to be hit and miss on how much and which variety is available!

I am fairly positive that there is one thing being overlooked in this 'new' development about using Distilled water. This "research" that has beed discovered seems to come from biased (in my estimation) sources.

In much the same way that years ago petorleum manufacturers scared consumers into NOT buying ethanol blended gasolines. Yes there were some issues, and that is another discussion. The point is that I think that we must consider the source(s) when we read information posted on the web.

As I stated earlier, I would think that if this information were true, there would be enough folks out there crying about their problems using distilled water. I called my dealer just to ask...his relply was he would recommend using ANY clear drinkable water. He did offer one caveat, he would avoid using well water (the water around here is exceptionally hard) unless it was an absolute emergency. Then flush asap, and fill with whatever was available.

Any way...I was just wondering how far 52,000 gallons would get you?

[DmaxMaverick]

I don't buy into any of the corrosive/acidic distilled water theory. Many competition racing circles do not allow any toxic or eco-unfriendly fluids to be used outside an engine (except fuel), and that includes engine coolant. In the mini-sprint circle I was closely associated with, the coolant of choice was distilled water. ProGly is expensive compared to DW, and many of the competitors are on a shoestring hobby budget (couple that with the competition engine buy-out rule), so funding was cut where ever they could find it. What I witnessed was fewer (very fewer) problems with DW than with tap or bottled water. The majority of the engines are in the 600 to 1000 cc motorcycle engines, which are composed almost entirely of aluminum. It was common for a team to run an engine for an entire season on DW, while many tap users ran 5-6 races and had radiator/stat/pump problems due to scale and corrosion. It is what it is, and scientific conclusions rarely stand up to reality.

[HammerWerf]

Folks,
As stated, ultra pure water will have a pH of 7. Carbon Dioxide disolves readily into water, forming Carbonic acid, a weak acid. This generally reduces the pH to 5.5 - 6 range. Also, the solubility of CO2 in water goes down as the temperature increases. So, running pure DI water in your cooling system is not that harmful as the gas is eliminated as the system reaches operating temperature
Antifreeze contain buffers that neutralize the existing pH of the water used, and set it where the most protection is provided. It turns out that the most protective pH for metal is generally around pH=9. And by using the right chemicals, you can get the pH you want at what ever temperature you operate at.
The antifreeze also contains chemicals that are designed to protect the metal surfaces by plating out a thin layer on the surfaces.
Our friend, DexCool uses an Organic additive package. The additive eliminates the Moly, nitrite, and silicate that was the basis for the Green antifreeze. The reserve alkylinity is the part of the package that controls the pH.
The organic packages that we use in the antifreeze, is very similar to the additives a lot of industry uses. Power plants use this stuff to protect their equipment, not the steam system, but the auxilary equipment that services the steam side.
HammerWerf

[40grit]

I think some people are confusing true "distilled water" with that water you get outside supermarkets and walmart...real distilled water is made by boiling water, the distilled water is collected some other place than the actual area the water was boiled in, the other water outside walmart and others is nothing more than a big water filter, sometimes a reverse omosis unit. this only "scrubs" the water by passing it thru various media to remove stuff, but never gets all of it, so whatever properties the water had prior to being filtered sometimes remain, where as with distilled water, it's only H2O, nothing else...

[MaxACL]

"Any way...I was just wondering how far 52,000 gallons would get you?"

About 17 hours or from mid America to the other desert. Often we will trade fuel weight for cargo and hit a tanker enroute. The mission is limited by the crew stamina.... and the Regs (can

[DmaxMaverick]

I think some people are confusing true "distilled water" with that water you get outside supermarkets and walmart...real distilled water is made by boiling water, the distilled water is collected some other place than the actual area the water was boiled in, the other water outside walmart and others is nothing more than a big water filter, sometimes a reverse omosis unit. this only "scrubs" the water by passing it thru various media to remove stuff, but never gets all of it, so whatever properties the water had prior to being filtered sometimes remain, where as with distilled water, it's only H2O, nothing else...


I don't see any confusion. Distilled is distilled. Other water is either tap, or filtered/bottled. The Walmart water I was referring to is available in 1 gallon jugs, and states "distilled" on the label. It is much cheaper than any brand of bottled water ($.68/gal last time I bought). I don't know what the filtered water goes for, but bottled water is outragous in comparison.

[More Power]

This was all hashed out in the 6.5 forum a few years ago. The result is that once you mix distilled water in a 50/50 solution with coolant, you no longer have distilled water. :)

I've used either distilled or de-ionized water interchangeably when preparing coolant - without a problem. In one case, the Dex-Cool/distilled mixture I poured into a diesel pickup's cooling system ran to more than 200,000 miles and six years without a problem.

Jim

[Turbo Al]

bbug is correct on the RO water -- never run it through copper pipes. I installed a RO unit at work (500 gal) and read through the instructions before handing the job off to one of my Mechanics. I told him plain and simple NOT to use Copper. the next day he had her all plumbed in with copper, I made him rip it all out and replace it with plastic. Being the smartass he was he left a section in copper and in less than 3 months the copper had burst because it was paper thin.
The reason for using plastic is because RO water is so pure that it attracts all metals thus acting like an acid.
That said we used it because it mixed very well with the chemicals we were using and once mixed it lost its attraction for metals (guess it wasnt hungry anymore) so you should be AOK if you use it at the recommened 50/50 mix with antifreeze.
RO water in its pure form should never be put in anything metal.
Al

[MaxACL]

Al,

My brain is passing gas... What is RO?

Mike

[Turbo Al]

Reverse Osmosus (RO) is water that is forced through a membrame with very small holes in it = pure water.

[MaxACL]

Reverse Osmosus... I knew that.

I was just recently in BC. Is it always that cold up there?

Mike (from Texas).

[Turbo Al]

No that was quite the cold snap. I am a Vol Firefighter and our call volume for the three week cold snap was as many calls as we did in three months last year. We also went door to door in the rural areas making sure everyone was ok. A number of people died in BC because they ran generators in the basement or garage, in one case the pilot went out on an old camper.
Al

[crafty]

One "source" of water that hasn't been mentioned is to take it from your dehumidifier. We have one in our basement so I have a pretty good supply. I used to use it in batteries (when you had to add water) and I have used it in rads too. I have no idea if the mineral content is the same as distilled or RO water but I never had any failures in the vehicles or tractors that I put it in. :D :D :D

[David Utz]

As MP said above, "once you mix distilled water in a 50/50 solution with coolant, you no longer have distilled water."
Distilled and de-ionized water can be very corrosive to copper and aluminum. We have equipment that must run de-ionized (non conductive) water. Only plastic or stainless materials can be used in these systems as the water will slowly eat copper and quickly attack aluminum. Coolant is full of anti-corrosive additives. City water departments keep water PH just below neutral (PH 7.0) because it is less corrosive to the plumbing than if they set it to 7.0. Pure and neutral is not always the best choice.

[GMCYukon]

Reverse Osmosus (RO) is water that is forced through a membrame with very small holes in it = pure water.

I like melting snow and filtering it, for my trucks. Thats PURE water.

[Prestonia24]

I like melting snow and filtering it, for my trucks. Thats PURE water.

You're talking about WHITE snow, and hopefully, not yellow or brown snow right? ;-)

[Quack_Addict]

http://www.ionizers.org/distilled_water.html this is where i read it. im no scientist so take it as you see fit :D

Jaymeangreen... I'm not going to question the credentials of the author of that article but I do think the he/she has an agenda as the clickable links at the bottom of the page ask you to belly up to the table with your credit card and buy one of their water purifiers.

Just my .02 anyway