View Full Version : Cummins and Duramax Towing Video
Let's hear your thoughts on this video since you all own D-Max's.Before you go flame me I happen to like D-maxs..they would be my second choice in truck.This is a long video, so dial up guys beware ;)
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...af013f4333.htm
DieselMonk
01-15-2007, 05:21
thats a bad link, can't watch it.
kconnair
01-15-2007, 20:10
Try this one - The Dmax wins.... as you would expect......
It may not be towing, but still a spanking....
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/duramax/0/b50e8079-c758-4a2e-b231-98b3015e6155.htm
Don't be hijacking my thread...go post that in the competition forum!:rolleyes: ...My video is real world, that is not
ThumperTDC
01-16-2007, 08:30
Don't be hijacking my thread...go post that in the competition forum!:rolleyes: ...My video is real world, that is not
Your video link isnt working.
Ok try this link...
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/money+maker/0/b108e8c2-25df-4054-8090-98af013f4333.htm
DmaxMaverick
01-16-2007, 19:35
Welcome to TDP Forums, Cummnz!
The video doesn't reflect an objective test comparison.
That whiner should go and buy a Dodge. He didn't take any comparitive factors into consideration. True that a specific production run of Duramax LLY's did have heating issues, but they are limited to those runs, and effective remedies are available for cheap or free. Only a small % of that run had the problem, but we don't know why. None of the other models have this issue.
Comparitive factors:
He had no idea what he was competing with. A 90's Cummins can't compete with any Duramax, heat or no. The Dodge driver was probably wondering why he couldn't shake that Chevy after spending 8 grand on upgrades. Doubt he had his A/C on, but we'll never know.
The load he had was considerably heavier than what the Dodge was hauling.
The coach/jeep is much more aerodynamic than a backward-trailered U-haul truck. Huge factor at those speeds. Keystone Cougar trailers are lightweights.
His A/C was on from the start.
P0193??? Probably his fault (should have changed the fuel filter). This will very likely lose his case. Still, limp mode is better than dead in traffic.
He may have a valid claim for his issues, but he needs to compare apples to apples if he wants to use it as a factor of argument.
If your first choice is Cummins, stay with it. Not likely you'll be happy with anything else. If you want a GM product, don't get an LLY and you'll sleep better. You won't shake that video, and will be looking for flaws.
You brought your question to a GM Diesel enthusiest website. Expect some bias. You'll get the same at the other sites, but probably worse than you'll find here. Brand loyalty here usually doesn't cross into ignorance.
DMAXmaverick: Thanks for the response..it turns out he did sue GM and won $30,500 and he kept the truck.Now..to correct you if I may on the first paragraph you typed..A}The dodge was a 2001-2002 model B}The truck was probably stock condsidering there were no gauges on the pillar and if he DID spend $8,000 he would have budgeted for the gauges as well C}There was no black smoke EVER from the dodge,you know any slightly modified Cummins huffs like a freight train under load. D}It was 90+ degrees and HUMID outside there, {i used to live in that part of Texas} we NEVER drove without the A/C on..EVER! E}That jeep and trailer weighed 2/3 of what the Chevy was towing, yes 1/3 less weight slightly more aerodynamic makes a difference,not to the point of two stock trucks running up and hill and the 04.5' LLY getting pounded on the grade that bad. As far as I am concerned looking at this logically and not from a Cummins OR D-max bias the odds were fairly even maybe slightly more in favor {because of a small weight difference in the dodge}.This particular guy in the GM had an overheating issue regardless and I'm glad he got his money, even if he was a moron lol;)
DmaxMaverick
01-16-2007, 21:56
If you assume a truck, even a Dodge, is stock because you don't see gages or smoke, you'll be one of the "passed and the curious". Most of the Dodge owners I know make very respectible power, and don't smoke. There's no rule that says your gages have to be on the pillar. Mine aren't. Get out and see more Dodges. Cheaper upgrades make more smoke.
A stock 2001-2002 Dodge won't compete with an LLY. Perhaps the Dodge would have an advantage once the LLY overheats, but he couldn't gain from the start, before he overheated.
A/C use is your choice. Most of my heavy towing is done in 100
Maverick..Maybe you should read what I posted in my first post..I can already tell you are a guy who jumps to conclusions by the way you speak here..as well as assuming this dodge is tuned up with $8,000 worth of upgrades {but yeah no gauges or smoke so he's the silent horsepower guy who sneaks up on you LOL!!} ok..assuming that AND here's what I said in my first post..so if any "brand war" is happening, then you need to read more carefully and welcome the Cummins guys as you would another Chevy guy..
Before you go flame me I happen to like D-maxs..they would be my second choice in truck.
ronniejoe
01-17-2007, 05:59
It appears to me that you jump to conclusions. What's your real purpose here? It sure seems like it is just to "stir the pot". The problem is, there are far more stories of Dodges being left in the dust (yes, even by my old 6.5) by Duramaxes than there are of Duramaxes being left in the dust by Dodges.
In this one instance, in a not even close comparison, your favorite Dodge won. Was that you driving the Dodge? As D-Mav said, windage load increases rapidly as speed increases...try as a cubic function of the speed. The whole thing smells of a set-up to me, but there I go jumping to conclusions. Take your video and go to the TDR site. They'll love you over there.
In fact, since 2001, the Dodge Cummins has been the weak sister in the stock Diesel performance department.
Again, what is your purpose for this post?
Hello? ECHO ECHO....I even put in quotes what I said to start so this won't happen..easy there quick draw mcgraw!:eek:
DmaxMaverick
01-17-2007, 10:03
Maverick..Maybe you should read what I posted in my first post..I can already tell you are a guy who jumps to conclusions by the way you speak here..as well as assuming this dodge is tuned up with $8,000 worth of upgrades {but yeah no gauges or smoke so he's the silent horsepower guy who sneaks up on you LOL!!} ok..assuming that AND here's what I said in my first post..so if any "brand war" is happening, then you need to read more carefully and welcome the Cummins guys as you would another Chevy guy..
I'm not flaming you. You asked for "thoughts", and I gave you mine. I jumped to no conclusions, just offered some explanations for what seems to be a very lopsided comparison. The Duramax driver, and perhaps you, jumped to the conclusions. The Duramax driver in the video (I watched all of it) may have issues with his truck, but he had an agenda.
You, as a "Cummins guy", are very welcome here. Bring your friends, too. But as I said, be forwarned. If your purpose is to instigate and solicit brand controversy, it won't work here. You can do that on just about any other Diesel site, but it isn't accepted here. That's not a policy, written or otherwise, but the members will tear you apart. Most of our members are here to avoid all the bs and hype on the other sites. We will be fair and impartial, but this is a GM Diesel enthusiest site, so expect some brand loyalty.
My comment about the Dodge driver and $8000 upgrades he may have, meant nothing. It was just an off-the-cuff comment. I saw just as much evidence of his performance mod's as the Duramax driver did. None. If you want a fair evaluation of a contest, show me a fair contest. You jumped to the conclusion the Dodge was stock. I simply offered another explanation. And, as I said before, gages and smoke (or the lack of) is no indication of performance upgrades. Throw enough money at any of these trucks, and you can get competitive power without smoke, and there is still no rule saying your gages have to be on the pillar.
If you want a good side by side comparison, bring your worst and best to Montana this summer. Join in on the annual pull off. All comers are welcome. Read the Pull Off articles (http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/pulloff2006c.htm) and you'll find fairness. If you show up, your performance will be noted equally.
Go to McRat Racing.com and take on Casper, or Wendy his Duramax Race Trucks with EFI Live and Suncoast transmissions etc. Get a lesson in what is fast on the track. This Mcrat is REAL Put it up if you got it pal!!!!
Tough Guy
01-17-2007, 10:58
Hello? ECHO ECHO....I even put in quotes what I said to start so this won't happen..easy there quick draw mcgraw!:eek:
You gotta watch these GM guys, they gang up on ya.....J/K!! :D
The Cummins is a great motor, I have driven and towed with several and really liked them...I haven't watched the video because I have dial-o-slow, but I say bring it on!
You should come to the pull-off this summer, its a good time and for the last few years GM has taken the belt home...
Chris
ronniejoe
01-17-2007, 11:22
Hello? ECHO ECHO....I even put in quotes what I said to start so this won't happen..easy there quick draw mcgraw!:eek:
I'll do the thinnin around here, Bubba Louie!
You think a lame "disclaimer" can let you do your dirty work? Again, I ask what is your purpose? Are you trying to fix a problem? Are you looking for solutions? Or are you just trying to poke at your "second" choice truck?
Me thinks the latter...
pull off? lol yeah with my 2 wheel drive truck? puhlease guys! I would just sit and spin the clutch or tires.Come back to me though when your Max has close to 400k miles on it and we'll tear both motors apart to see which one has the least amount of internal wear :D ..no serious, if I had the cash I would love to build a D-Max Regular Cab 4x4 to race..sled pulling is kinda pointless,but still fun to watch anyway. Now my hats off to Nick D and Mike Tomac for sure their trucks are the real deal..;)
DmaxMaverick
01-17-2007, 17:49
Read the articles.
The pull off is on the highway, pulling a heavy trailer up a grade. Not unlike what was going on in that video.
BTW...
Lots of high mileage Duramax's out there. A lot less have blown up or worn out than Cummins. Don't believe it? Find a blown or worn out Duramax, then come back and we'll continue the longevity argument.
Tomac won't tell you how many engines he's gone through, neither will Nick..
Stock VS. Stock...Cummins has been on the road many more years and has quite the track record compared to Duramax..although D-max has a pretty good one from 01' til present day.Bias or not, you can't argue the track record of Cummins in the long haul.;)
Tough Guy
01-17-2007, 21:37
Tomac won't tell you how many engines he's gone through, neither will Nick..
Stock VS. Stock...Cummins has been on the road many more years and has quite the track record compared to Duramax..although D-max has a pretty good one from 01' til present day.Bias or not, you can't argue the track record of Cummins in the long haul.;)
Click this LINK (http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/pulloff2006c.htm)
Give it a read.
Chris
Chris ..was that your 99 Superduty in the competition?Nice looking truck there man!:D That looks like a cool test and I love Montana's scenery alot.However, my truck is a manual and it wouldn't be fair to have to shift.Let's see the test with a 30ft. gooseneck loaded with iron go up the hill and test manual trans trucks in their own competition..bumper pull trailers are interesting to say the least;)
DieselMonk
01-18-2007, 06:07
I watched your video. Well, that Duramax had surely some cooling issues. Said that, he started already off in the beginnig with a pretty hot engine and complains that he can't keep up with the truck.
The boardcomputer will reduce power when the engine is hot like that. I could read that on his display. No wonder why the Dodge walked away... funny thing is he always says his coolant temps and that the engine is hot, bla bla bla... the dodge is walking away, bla bla bla engine is still hot and dinging like crazy, but doesn't say anything about the reduced power.
Second thing, his truck went into a limp mode (not enough fuel pressure in the rail). Look at his tank! Its bone dry. the pump probably sucked some air going up or downhill.
ronniejoe
01-18-2007, 06:09
That was done a few years ago. A Big Tex gooseneck with 16,270 lb. of lumber was pulled up the hill. Guess what...the Duramax won that too.
If you read the article, there was a 1996 Dodge manual that competed last year. It's interesting that you are talking a lot, but find all kinds of reasons not to enter your truck in the competition. The Pull-Off has been going on for seven years now and is a good way to compare trucks. Everyone pulls the same trailer on the same hill.
Tough Guy
01-18-2007, 10:12
Chris ..was that your 99 Superduty in the competition?Nice looking truck there man!:D That looks like a cool test and I love Montana's scenery alot.However, my truck is a manual and it wouldn't be fair to have to shift.Let's see the test with a 30ft. gooseneck loaded with iron go up the hill and test manual trans trucks in their own competition..bumper pull trailers are interesting to say the least;)
Yes, that is my truck, thanks.
The scenery is awesome! Your truck would do fine, you may have a little slower ET but your top speed at the mile would be generally uneffected. Many manual trans. have run the hill, as Big Ron pointed out there was one last year.
A heavier trailer just means slower times, the power differential would still remain the same, 10,000lbs on a 6% grade from a dead stop is pretty heavy!
If you come, it would give you a more complete understanding of what it takes to be competitive reguardless of brand.
Its amazing to watch trucks that make over 500hp run the hill!
Chris
baker2acre
01-18-2007, 10:55
Hey Cummnz,
Where did you find the year of the Dodge?? I've been everywhere I can think of and can't find reference to the Dodge's year:confused: ... I don't remember TxChis saying in the video... but I fell asleep between milemarker 475 and 500!!:D:rolleyes: Do you have any links to this info??
Colorado Kid
01-18-2007, 11:25
Chris ..was that your 99 Superduty in the competition?Nice looking truck there man!:D That looks like a cool test and I love Montana's scenery alot.However, my truck is a manual and it wouldn't be fair to have to shift.Let's see the test with a 30ft. gooseneck loaded with iron go up the hill and test manual trans trucks in their own competition..bumper pull trailers are interesting to say the least;)
My 2WD, Manual Tranny D-max held the stocker crown in the pull-off for quite awhile . . .until the stock D/As grew another gear and several more HP. As a 2002 is didn't have any cooling problems . . .infact it didn't even engage the fan clutch until 2 miles up the grade . . . Toughguy was riding shotgun on my second attempt, when I learned that even stock the D-max can overwhelm the clutch if you're mean enough to it. I let a little of the smoke out of the original clutch, but it sure cured the clutch chatter in reverse problem I'd had up to then.
On a differnt day I pulled the 28' 5th wheel up I-70 west of Denver . . . it was 103 degrees in Denver and 90 at the tunnels . . .went all the way up at the speed limit with the A/C blowing hard . . . the fan was singing most of the time but the temp never budged.
I still hardly see manual trans trucks VS. auto trucks a fair race as far as time is concerned, i'd like to see a manual only class.
Baker2Acre:I did mention that I knew the Dodge in that video was BETWEEN a certain year range.By the factory wheels that are on it,and cab design with the quad cab I can spot those years {late 2000-2002 24v dodges} a mile away,trust me .Mine is a 98 the first year of the quad cab,last year of the old 12 valve motor,last year of the pull-out headlight switch and in late 99-2000 they swapped over to the newer style factory rims like this truck had on.:D <--sorry I know waaaay too much about the certain factory options dodge has lol:p
DmaxMaverick
01-18-2007, 12:07
Change the rules?? Handicap?? That would defeat the purpose. Run what you brung. Although it can be competitive, it is not necessarily a competition. It is a comparison, with a focus on comparing what the big 3 have to offer year after year. If you read the article, you'd see that. There's no trophy for the winner, and no disgrace for the loser. "I can't keep up because I have a manual" is just an excuse. If they (manuals) are so inferior, why are they popular, or even available?
A competent handshaker has no problem keeping up with autos, even at the track.
You make many assumptions and conclusions based on unknowns. Unless you know more than what you are telling us, there's no way you can make such an assumption about a vehicle you know nothing about. Things aren't always what they seem. People change wheels, etc. all the time. The year and power level of that Dodge is absolutely irrelevant, without seeing a scale ticket to go with it. I'm not questioning your knowledge of the Dodge trucks, just that you don't know, or aren't telling, about the vehicle in question. Don't read too much into it. It is what it is.
baker2acre
01-18-2007, 12:42
Thanks Cummnz...
I am aware of the model changes thru the years of the 2nd Gen as well.... but all of the model changes you mentioned, aside from the hairline of the Q-Cab eluded my eyes in the video... even with heavy pause action and zooming. The best I could figure was that it was no older then '98 and could not see the "24V" on the emblem or the wide slot wheels (or the headlight pull or turn switch for that matter;) ) to move it up through the ISB years.... thought maybe you saw it mentioned somewhere.
Maverick:To have a manual trans TRYING TO MAKE THE BEST TIME in anything IE: DRAG RACING,or see whose fastest up the mountain in this case IS a handicap sir, with an automatic you put it in drive and put it to the floor,you loose a TON of time and Boost in between shifts in a manual..and they are great NORMALLY, because most guys towing 10k or better up the grades in Montana are not racing anyone, they are trying to get the load delivered safely and efficiently;) A run what you brung would be ok, but there's NO ONE that can hang with an automatic, they will win everytime out.:cool: BTW:The dodge in question in that video, I swear on whatever you want me to swear on I am not affiliated with them or ever saw that truck in my life..but I am curious now what if anything was done to it.
Baker2Acre:Pause the video and look at the wheels reallllly close and you will see the difference in style from the 99 or older wheels.I am 100% confident the truck is a 2000+ model.;)
ronniejoe
01-18-2007, 13:23
Only if you don't know how to shift...;)
sorry I don't feel like speed shifting my NV4500 with 400k miles on it..that wouldn't be so great for the roadways of Montana.;)
Open minded Cummins guy here. I would love to do that competition ... er uh comparison. I really love that stuff. Not to try to win, but just to participate and hang out with other diesel lovers.
Mine's a 6 speed 4X4, very mildly bombed. It sounds like a heck of a long drive from Alabama, just to tote a trailer up a hill. And I'm already starting to slip my clutch, so I might be a bit skeered about that. Would there be anyway to get my fuel to/from Montana subsidized, in order to get a manual tranny Cummins in the picture? :D
I'm gonna go back and look on like the 2nd page and see if there was a link to the Montana pull-off. If not, somebody shoot me a link. Thanks.
P.S. - Shoooot, I just previewed my post and saw my signature. That's old, same truck though. Will have to update and remove some of the extra junk.
- JyRO
Tough Guy
01-18-2007, 18:01
Click this LINK (http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/pulloff2006c.htm)
Give it a read.
Chris
There is your link....
Its a long way for you to come, but many other travel from great distance as well, Kennedy drives from Wisconsin, Ronniejoe, Indiana and Ken Florey and Moudry come from the west coast. plus many others from around the country...
There are many things to see and do here in Montana, several parks, Glacier and Yellowstone and all the sights in-between! You would have a great time and being with other Diesel enthusiasts is always fun.
Chris
http://inlinediesel.com/deathmatch/
Just a joke guys, don't get too ticked off lol..maybe it will make a few of you laugh a little..pretty good imagination though.:D
DmaxMaverick
01-19-2007, 16:19
Now that there's funny.....I don't care who y'are.....
ronniejoe
01-19-2007, 16:23
Here we see the only way the Dodge can win!:D
The inferno that consumed the Duramax is the magnesuim front diff catching aflame and it burns like hell. Too bad that was a nice Chevy trying with all its guts to out pull that big bad Dodge. Guess I'd better look for a used Ram for a work truck to save my LBZ before it goes out in a blaze of glory.
Inspector
01-31-2007, 10:51
My LB7 would have run away from both of them pulling my 14K road loaded 5er.
Denny
mschuyler
02-02-2007, 12:14
DMAXmaverick: Thanks for the response..it turns out he did sue GM and won $30,500 and he kept the truck.
Know where there's some documentation on this? If it was a court suit there's got to be a public record somewhere. I'd like to take a look.
mschuyler
02-02-2007, 14:20
I've gone clear through that video. What I see, in a nutshell, is a guy abusing his truck and providing documentary proof of it. Further, it proves nothing.
1) All you see on the video is this guy trying to keep up with another truck. His high temp warning from the DIC goes on. He keeps driving. His high temp audible alarm goes off. He keeps driving. Further, he's got the extra instrumentation to prove beyond a doubt that his temperature is too high. And he keeps driving, in the left lane, so anyone wanting to do the speed limit has to go around him. He's lucky he didn't get pulled over by a trooper. If I were a GM lawyer I would say, "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what you see here is complete abuse of this man for his truck, which violates our warranty terms."
2) Now, let's talk about this "test." Here's a pretty hefty trailer. Not sure how much it weighs, but it is not insignificant--a bit more than your average boat trailer. It's a monster, 2,000 pounds minimum. Anybody know? Next we stick a medium-sized truck on it, backwards. Needless to say, it weighs way more than your average pickup. How much does the combo weigh? I don't know, but my guess is we're pushing the limits of the rated capacity. I wouldn't be the least surprised it's over, in which case see #1. In any case, I'm guessing the combo is close to 15,000 pounds.
3) That U-Haul is on the end of the trailer with its rear facing the wind. That is equvalent to taking a couple pieces of 4 x 8 board and pushing them through the air broadside at 60mph. Because of the nature of the trailer, that U-haul rear is 100% exposed to the wind and is doing a tremendous amount to slow that truck down. It's acting as an air brake, not as efficient as a parachute, but it's a lot more efficient than a flap on an airplane, which has the job of slowing the plane down. Same idea. If a flap did that, the plane would crash.
4) Enter, the Dodge. Don't know exactly what it is, don't know the year, don't know the HP, the torque, the rated capacity or anything at all--just guesswork. It's a Phantom Dodge. And it has a trailer tucked in behind it (or is that a camper?), and a free-wheeling jeep behind that. We've had testimony here that those trailers aren't that heavy. Any guesses? I say not over 5,000 pounds. How about the jeep? I'm thinking 2500 pounds max. Could be 2,000. It's not like it's a Grand Cherokee. It's a small Wrangler type two seater. Of course, the trailer could be loaded with lead bricks, but we don't have that information. It could be empty, too. So the weight the Phantom Dodge is hauling is roughly half that of the Duramax. That's a guess, of course, but given the lack of data, my guess is just as valid as your guess.
5) What about drag on the Dodge? The trailer is close in. It might be a couple of feet above the cab, so that will take some wind, but most of it is sheltered by the truck itself. It's front is rounded specifically to cut down on drag. Compare that to the broadside U-Haul completely exposed to the wind. Wind tunnel tests show (and they've been linked on this site somewhere in the past) that the front of the truck takes the brunt of the wind and pushes it to the side and above. The truck bed gets almost nothing (meaning a cover or open tailgate doesn't help your mileage), and that jeep get's zilch because it's tucked behind the trailer out of the way, free-wheeling, by the way. I could pull that jeep with a Ford Ranger. In terms of overall drag, the Dodge is way more efficient than the Chevy. In terms of aerodynamics, it is way more efficient just because of the way it's loaded. It has nothing to do with 'being a Dodge.' On the Chevy the wind hits the front, gets bounced up and to the sides, and comes back together well before it hits the U-haul. In other words, you've got 100% exposure of the U-Haul to the wind.
6) So what you have here in a Dodge towing half the weight of the Chevy in a much more efficient manner. An aeronautical engineer should be able to work out the drag coefficients mathematically for these two loads. I am quite sure that if this were done it would blow this issue out of the water. Given all the unknowns of this video, it should be blown out of the water already. There's no proof here of anything except a guy whining about his truck as he beats it.
Now, it may be this guy did get $30K from GM. There's no evidence that he did not, but as I said last post, I'd sure like to see the court documents on this. Was it a jury trial? Was there a settlement prior to going to trial? Were there any other arguments? What was the 'point of law' that won this case? It may be that GM thought it worthwhile to just give this guy $30K than go to the expense of going to trial. "and he got to keep the truck." Then what's the point? I thought he didn't like it! But this video couldn't possibly have proven the case. And compared to class action suits that attempt to prove a defective product (where the lawyers get most of the money), $30K is a drop in the bucket. There has to be more to the issue than that.
mschuyler
02-02-2007, 14:23
The inferno that consumed the Duramax is the magnesuim front diff catching aflame and it burns like hell. Too bad that was a nice Chevy trying with all its guts to out pull that big bad Dodge. Guess I'd better look for a used Ram for a work truck to save my LBZ before it goes out in a blaze of glory.
Oh, really? Or maybe it was lighter fluid thrown on a model. Ya think? :D
mschuyler
02-03-2007, 12:55
well, I can't find the court record, but I did check this out and the guy did win "just under" $30.5K. It has to have been a local Texas court from the sound of it. No sign of a jury, just a judge. His basic issue is if the specs SAY you can pull 15,000 pounds, then you ought to be able to do so all day long on a hot summer day up hill and down no matter what. He actually wanted GM to settle, but they kept going so he, in his infinite wisdom, kicked their butt. A friend of his who was in on it settled for about $6K.
This does bring up the issue of specs. The specs say how much weight you can haul, but they don't take into account how you haul it. This guy put up a great big air brake in the sky and had issues. He says the specs only talk about weight, so he ought to be able to haul ANY LOAD if it meets "the specs." In terms of the sky brake, he says it was a "legal load" therefore how he loaded it is not relevant. In other words, you have the right to be stupid (because stupid is legal) and it's all GM's fault. I suspect GM didn't take this guy seriously and put little effort into it. Too bad.
Justice--Texas style.
DmaxMaverick
02-03-2007, 14:15
I don't put any credit to, or have confidence in, civil court decisions, if there was a decision. A case filed does not indicate a case decided. More likely settled out of court, which is much more common with deep pockets. If a woman can sue McDondald's and win 7 figures for spilling coffee on HERSELF, where does it end? If you try to make sense of any of it, you'll only end up with a headache and be more confused than when you started.
JSteward
02-22-2007, 22:35
If a woman can sue McDondald's and win 7 figures for spilling coffee on HERSELF, where does it end? If you try to make sense of any of it, you'll only end up with a headache and be more confused than when you started.
Actually, the store ran out of lids and handed her a cup of coffee with another cup turned upside down over the top of it. When handing it out the window, it immediatly spilled in her lap. She had to have emergency surgery and have the dead skin from her vagina and legs scrapped off. Turns out, the coffee was actually near boiling due to a defective pot warmer. ...but it was the use of another upside down cup as a lid in the absence of a coffee cup lid. At least that was the argument at a convention for insurance adjusters that I attended (as an adjuster).
-Jason
paoutdoorsman
02-25-2007, 22:05
What was he using on his laptop to monitor all those engine states?
paoutdoorsman
02-25-2007, 22:05
Oops... meant to type engine stats!
Quack_Addict
02-26-2007, 16:55
That load setup, and I do emphasize the word "setup", was about as aerodynamic as a parachute.
In case anyone wants to run with it, the equation for drag force is as follows:
Drag Force = (Cd*ρ*v2*A)/2
I'm not going to waste my time.
If GM paid that guy a dime without being forced to do so by a court, especially after he documented his idiocity on video, it's a shame. If a court ordered GM to pay, that's an even bigger shame because it demonstrates a lack of understanding and/or common sense on the part of a judge or jury.
The Chevy may have limped; the Dodge would have been on the side of the road with a blown transmission coupled to that load trying to accomplish what the Chevy got done.
The ONLY time an A to B comparison of ANY type is valid is if A and B are equal. The LOADS the Dodge (A) and Chevy (B) are up against are at totally different ends of the spectrum rendering any valuable comparison between the two, in that regard, a moot point.
baker2acre
02-27-2007, 10:25
Heck of a good point QuackAddict.....
I think the issues illustrated in this video have only half to do with stated weights. In the video both vehicles are subject to 2 main variables: weight and drag. Three is you want to count rolling resistance. By those to standards, these trucks are indeed not comparable. Quack Addict is spot on.
For an illustration, lets say we use the same models in Cumminz link back in post #35. This time we attach the Dodge and Chevy to identical flat bed trailers. The dodge is loaded with a 1 lb. brick (solid w/ no holes) laying flat. The Chevy is loaded with the same 1 lb brick, only standing verticle, face to the wind. And Ford, well lets light that one on fire just for giggles. :rolleyes: Now, a scale like those used to weigh fish is attached between trailer and truck. If the trucks were then lift by the front bumpers, the scales should read "1 lb + trailer." Identical? Yes. Now The same trucks are then placed on the ground. The bumpers are tied to an immovable object. A leaf blower is then placed in front of each truck blowing at a constant speed. Curious to read the scale now? If we use the formula provided by Quack Addict.... given our trucks and bricks are Identical except for wind exposure, the only aspect that matters is A... area. Cd = Drag coefficient, p = air density, V = velocity and A = area. Being that I don't know nor have time to find out all the particulars of these trucks I'm going to simplify. All aspects of the formula are identical between trucks so they are a unit of "1" each except for the area. So our formula now is (1*1*1sq*A)/2. If the bricks are each 4"X4"X8", the dodge would have an exposed area of 16"/sq and a drag force of "8." The Chevy's standing brick would have an area of 32"/sq and a drag force of "16." That's 2 -1 !! Am I saying that the Duramax in the video is "towing" twice that of the Dodge? No. That's silly. Just illustrating the potential differences in drag. I read some interesting drag coefficients.... everything from a VW Polo to the Empire State Building. A pickup had a Cd of "0.5" an aeordynamic tractor-trailer was "0.6-0.7" and the trailer alone was "0.9!!!" That's still like 30% from a truck/trailer to just trailer, which is close to a backwards boxtruck!!
On top of all this is the relationship between drag, velocity and mass.
D= constant * V2
or
Drag = constant (mass) * Velocity squared
oooorrrrrr
Double the velocity = quadruple the Drag!!!!
Holy Cow!!! Our "8" on the Dodge is now "32"... but the Chevy's no longer "32" but "128!!" 4 times more drag!!! :mad:
My head hurts now. Until I see documentation to the contrary. Gm is not stupid enough to "give" this guy money.
Stlheadake
03-01-2007, 23:48
What was he using on his laptop to monitor all those engine states?
Any clues? I might like to have me one of those! On second thought, I'd kill someone or myself trying to keep the internet connection up so I could post my numbers!!
Would like to know what it was though.
mschuyler
03-03-2007, 19:35
Heck of a good point QuackAddict.....
My head hurts now. Until I see documentation to the contrary. Gm is not stupid enough to "give" this guy money.
I am with you 100% on the issues here, as my first posts indicate. But it looks like that's what happened. A Texas Court awarded this guy $31,000. he could be out and out lying, but that's what he's saying on his own forums. I'd love to see the actual court documents, but i simply cannot find them online.
Quack_Addict
03-04-2007, 00:00
I am with you 100% on the issues here, as my first posts indicate. But it looks like that's what happened. A Texas Court awarded this guy $31,000. he could be out and out lying, but that's what he's saying on his own forums. I'd love to see the actual court documents, but i simply cannot find them online.
I have never heard of GM simply handing out "hush money" in an instance like this and I seriously doubt GM would have come to the table with less resources than the owner of the vehicle had at his disposal. In addition, I would think a court ruling of this type against one of the Big 3 would be newsworthy. Remember side-saddle gas tanks? Firestone tires? Rear spring shackles on Jeeps? What, is the media afraid to jump on this headline for some reason or are crash & burn necessary criteria for a news story?
Sadly however, in today's sue-happy society, no court ruling surprises me anymore.
The video clearly illustrates a well thought-out load case with respect to the trailer - it's intended to generate MAXIMUM drag while being at/near GCWR for the vehicle. As mentioned by baker2acre, double the speed, quadruple the force. The driver in the video is expecting his truck to perform like he's on a leisurely Sunday drive throught the hills, yet he's towing a parachute at near-GCWR, up steady and regular grades, in high heat, air conditioner on and WHO KNOWS what else going on behind the scenes. For ALL we know, the truck may have been impeded above and beyond what was shown, depicted and/or claimed. The guy in the video was obviously out to prove a point (the laptop instrumentation was a nice touch), just like Dateline was with the side-saddle gas tanks and we know how that ended up. I'm sure GM has not forgot that one either.
Oh, and it wasn't a stipulation of "the settlement" that all matter related to the case, like the video, be sealed, declared explicit property of GM or otherwise not publicized? GM's lawyers must taken a really long lunch that day... paying the dude $31k, letting him keep his truck AND letting him keep the rights to his video so he can sell it for use as reference to anyone with a bone to pick against GM in the future. Sheesh, where do I get in line for that deal?
Have you seen GM's reaction when something as simple as grainy spy-photos of comparatively low-volume niche vehicles get publicized (reference the recent "Blue Devil")? Yet they don't fight tooth & nail when their flagship, industry-leading, high-volume HD truck powertrain package gets dinged like this? Hmm.
I guess I could be wrong, though.........
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