Here is the reason why Ford recalled all of their 6.4 Liters

[Petrella]

Unbelievable!! i cant believe Ford would send out 28,000 trucks with a chance of burning down every city in North America! LOL and i really dont know why that engine ticks like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v36MCcRPRTc

Anthony
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2006 GMC Sierra 4x4 CC SB SLT LBZ/6 Speed
Dark Pewter Leather and Power Sunroof
305 70R/16 tires on Eagle 16x10 rims
Chrome wire mesh grille
Alpine Stereo, Navigation, and flip down rear screen
Autometer Cobalt gauges
Mag-Hytec Diff cover
pics of my truck - http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=12647120&uid=2685617&members=1

[ToddMeister]

That truck was not running right.

Injector problem????

[baker2acre]

Some people actually buy kits to make their exhausts do that!!! At Ford you can have it from the factory !!! :D


Is the fire due to excess fuel at idle??

[More Power]

This doesn't bode well for GM & Dodge either. All use some form of exhaust catalyst/filter regeneration that creates higher exhaust temperatures to clean the system...

Jim

[50+]

You have got to wonder what effect the dpf is going to have on the engine. I hope were not watching a similar video with an LMM in the future!

[mhagie]

In that video you could hear huge injector hammer, probally dumping too much fuel which just adds to the fire, pun intended.
kinda proves along with the LB7 troubles that we all would have been better off with Delphi injectors instead of the not very reliable Bosh.

Merle

[baker2acre]

It seems to me one of the biggest concerns for Turbo Diesel Performance is EGT's.... isn't "raising" temps for any reason kind of self-defeating?:confused: I think ronniejoe said it best in another thread when he questioned about the "unsuspecting" running down the road loaded... egt's suddenly shoot up... limp mode... screen door... submarine... I've wondered about this since I first read about regeneration. Equipment rarely (if ever) improves with age and I'm worried about flames more often later in life.:eek: Urea injection doesn't excite me either. :(

[DmaxMaverick]

EGT's are only a problem if it is happening in the cylinder. That's were the engine meltdown occurs.

That exhaust system has to be hell on pedestrians....or parked cars....or drive-throughs....or....

As far as the extensive testing goes, they are rarely tested in the same configuration as released to the consumer market. The exhaust system tested was likely a prototype system, and the problem systems likely the mass produced versions. If it is a matter of programming, it's updated all the time, and that ball gets dropped regularly. Many of the Duramax issues we've seen were probably due to the same principal(s).

[big61fourby]

This doesn't bode well for GM & Dodge either. All use some form of exhaust catalyst/filter regeneration that creates higher exhaust temperatures to clean the system...

Jim

That was my second thought (after 'whoa!!!'). We're all stuck with this technology, regardless of which brand you prefer. I haven't heard of anything like this with the new Cummins, which has been out for a little while. When do the new LMM's hit the lot? Soon, I would guess. Hope GM & Dodge did their homework...

Saw one of the new Fords going down the road today--didn't see any flames, but the imagination could sure be creative...

[ronniejoe]

This is what happens when out of control government legislates technologies into the market. The EPA is killing this country and needs to be eliminated. It is nothing more than a bastion of communism.

OK. Come and get me...

[billschall]

This is what happens when out of control government legislates technologies into the market. The EPA is killing this country and needs to be eliminated. It is nothing more than a bastion of communism.

OK. Come and get me...

Amen, brother. You preach it & I'll turn the pages!

[Tough Guy]

Yeah!! Go get 'em Ronnie! :D

Wait til summer when the new enviromentally friendly exhaust systems start wild fires everywhere! :eek:

The end is near.

Chris

[ToddMeister]

You pretty much hit the nail right on the head with that statement.

No arguments from me...



This is what happens when out of control government legislates technologies into the market. The EPA is killing this country and needs to be eliminated. It is nothing more than a bastion of communism.

OK. Come and get me...

[More Power]

The DPF regeneration process used by the new LMM is a little different than Ford's, and may present fewer problems (like that shown in the Ford video). For example, the LMM DPF active regeneration process requires a variety of conditions be met before it heats the DPF. The biggest one is that the vehicle must be above 30-mph for regen to occur. Can't happen while sitting in a parking lot. ;)

Jim

[Quack_Addict]

Sheesh. First horsepower and torque wars. Now thrust.

Where will it end? ;)

[Tough Guy]

Ford published the following on 3/26 to answer some questions regarding the recall.....

"Questions and Answers

Q1. Is this a safety recall?
A1. Yes, this is a Ford-initiated voluntary safety recall.


Q2. What is the cause of the tailpipe issue?
A2. In rare instances, the diesel particulate filter can generate excessive temperatures that could result in flame at the tailpipe.


Q3. What causes the excessive temperatures in the diesel particulate filter?
A3. A build up of hydrocarbons within the filter. Under normal circumstances, the diesel particulate filter collects particulate matter from the exhaust and then safely burns it to clean the filter. A build up of hydrocarbons in the filter may cause higher temperatures than necessary for cleaning.


Q4. What is the source of the hydrocarbons and how do they reach the filter?
A4. Hydrocarbons are found in fluids such as engine coolant, engine oil and diesel fuel. Normally, these fluids do not reach the exhaust. However, in rare circumstances, a leak within the engine could cause these fluids to enter the exhaust system and reach the filter.


Q5. How does fuel or oil reach the exhaust system?
A5. Some possible examples are a fuel injector stuck open or a leaking turbo shaft seal.


Q6. What are potential symptoms a driver may notice if they experience this concern before the recall is performed?
A6. In the rare case that vehicle owners experience this concern, the Check Engine indicator lamp in the instrument cluster may illuminate, and they may note a lack of power or rough engine operation. They may also hear abnormal noise from the engine or the exhaust and possibly see white smoke or a flame emitting from the exhaust tailpipe.


Q7. After the recall repair is performed, what symptoms will the customer notice if the PCM detects excessive heat from the DPF?
A7. The system acts to prevent any flame from emitting from the tailpipe. The software will reduce fuel flow and air flow to the engine to allow the diesel particulate filter to cool. If an over temperature event occurs, the driver of the vehicle will notice the following:

1. The Check Engine indicator lamp in the instrument cluster will flash, warning the driver to pull over to the side of the road as soon as safely possible.
2. Engine RPM will be reduced to idle after 3 – 5 seconds. Power steering and power braking assist will not be affected but the customer will not be able to accelerate the vehicle beyond idle speed.
Q8. Have there been any reports of fires caused by a Super Duty?
A8. As of the date of this publication, we received a single report of a grass fire, with no injuries. We have received only three reports to date of flame from the tailpipe across the U.S. and Canada.


Q9. I have heard that installing the new PCM program could cause the ABS light or Check Engine light to remain illuminated?
A9. Many dealers have completed the PCM reprogramming using IDS without any concerns. We have identified a few common concerns that have been experienced. Here are some tips to follow:

1. Make sure that your IDS is updated to release 48.5 Patch 3 or later. You can verify your level by viewing the "System Utilities" screen.
2. If the correct last 8 digits of the VIN cannot be viewed from the vehicle ID screen on the IDS, please enter them manually.
3. If after reprogramming you have hard fault P1639 or P1635, please perform Programmable Module Installation for the PCM in the same IDS session. Do not delete the current session as this will take longer to correct.
4. Be sure to pull and clear all Continuous Memory Diagnostic Trouble Codes (CMDTC's) after the PCM reprogramming is completed. If you don't do this, it is possible that indicator lights could be illuminated.
5. When you have completed the PCM reprogramming on an affected vehicle, be sure to close the session before connecting to the next vehicle. Do not use the same IDS session to reprogram several different trucks. Every vehicle needs to have its own IDS session to ensure the correct information is used to reprogram each PCM.
Q10. When will you begin mailing customer letters?
A10. We expect to begin mailing customer letters the week of April 2, 2007.


Q11. Should owners stop driving their vehicles?
A11. We are not instructing customers to stop driving their vehicles. Customers should, however, take their vehicles to their Ford dealer to receive the software update as soon as possible.


Q12. Will the condition occur when the vehicle is shut off?
A12. No, the condition does not occur when the engine is off.


Q13. Are there any other changes associated with this calibration that a customer may notice?
A13. Yes. This calibration will also address other drivability and Check Engine indicator light concerns that could be experienced during normal operation. Please refer to Special Service Message (SSM) 19683 for further details."

Here's the text from SSM 19683:

"19683 6.4-CALIBRATION UPDATE-DTC'S P132B,P0128,P0684,P0231,P2291,P2459,P0500,P0102, P242C,P242D,P2032,P2033. A/C INOP, MANUAL TRANS CONCERNS, AND DPF IMPROVEMENTS.

2008 F-SUPER DUTY WITH 6.4L ENGINE BUILT BEFORE 3/9/07; FSA 07S49 CALIBRATION UPDATES ALSO ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING DTC'S: P132B, P0128, P0684, P0231, P2291, P2459, P0500, P0102; AND DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER SYSTEM CODES P242C, P242D, P2032, P2033 - WHICH WILL NOW INITIATE A BLINKING MIL, REDUCE ENGINE POWER, AND REDUCED IDLE QUALITY TO ALERT THE USER OF A FAULT REQUIRING VEHICLE SERVICE. ADDITIONAL IMPROVEMENTS INCLUDE: DRIVABILITY DURING DPF REGENERATION INCLUDING HIGH ENGINE SPEED DURING CLUTCH OPERATION ON MANUAL TRANSMISSION EQUIPPED VEHICLES, BUCK/JERK/SURGE, TIP IN/TIP OUT FEEL FOR MANUAL TRANSMISSION, AND A/C CONCERNS WITHOUT DTC'S AT COLD AMBIENT OR IN PDI. REPROGRAM ECM PER FSA PRIOR TO DIAGNOSIS AND CLEAR ALL DTC'S AFTER PROGRAMMING. FOR DTC'S GENERATED AFTER REPROGRAM, FOLLOW NORMAL PROCEDURES."

[Tough Guy]

Q8. Have there been any reports of fires caused by a Super Duty?
A8. As of the date of this publication, we received a single report of a grass fire, with no injuries. We have received only three reports to date of flame from the tailpipe across the U.S. and Canada.


So...if this info is correct, the sky is falling attitude is a little dramatic.

Chris

[ronniejoe]

Is it dramatic to be concerned about the PCM pulling you back to idle 3 - 5 seconds after a high temp indication? I see accidents with injury and law suits that will cripple Ford in the future.

[Stlheadake]

[QUOTE=Tough Guy]Ford published the following on 3/26 to answer some questions regarding the recall.....

"Questions and Answers


Q4. What is the source of the hydrocarbons and how do they reach the filter?
A4. Hydrocarbons are found in fluids such as engine coolant, engine oil and diesel fuel. Normally, these fluids do not reach the exhaust. However, in rare circumstances, a leak within the engine could cause these fluids to enter the exhaust system and reach the filter.


Q5. How does fuel or oil reach the exhaust system?
A5. Some possible examples are a fuel injector stuck open or a leaking turbo shaft seal.

OK, I watched the video and the first thing I thought is that engine is missing. It sounds to me like that clunk (less of a ticking sound) is it is not hitting on at least one cylinder, which would dump raw fuel into the exhaust. That would account for the build up of hydro carbons.

FWIW:

I have a friend who is a salesman for a Ford dealership. He says that in addition to this recall, his dealership is requiring all Superduty buyers to sign a waiver agreeing that if they do ANY aftermarket engine mods their engine and drive train warranty is void.

He says that the 6.4 is totally maxed out in the performance area already. He made it sound like it is something that Ford has put a memo out on.

[big61fourby]

OK, I watched the video and the first thing I thought is that engine is missing. It sounds to me like that clunk (less of a ticking sound) is it is not hitting on at least one cylinder, which would dump raw fuel into the exhaust. That would account for the build up of hydro carbons.

FWIW:

I have a friend who is a salesman for a Ford dealership. He says that in addition to this recall, his dealership is requiring all Superduty buyers to sign a waiver agreeing that if they do ANY aftermarket engine mods their engine and drive train warranty is void.

A little further reading seems to indicate that the truck had a bad injector causing the fiery regen. Some consolation, I guess, but I don't think I'd feel comfortable in a truck that could start fires from a bad injector.

This site knows all too well--injector failure happens. It's one thing to wash down a cylinder and maybe loose the motor; seems a little different knowing the new trucks not only risk loosing a motor but also burning down two counties...Yeah, they had one grass fire, and have what, several thousand trucks (all low miles...) on the road? What happens when they dump a couple hundred thousand of these on the market and they start racking up miles...doesn't seem like a happy situation.

Has ford always warranteed modded trucks?

[Quack_Addict]

I have a friend who is a salesman for a Ford dealership. He says that in addition to this recall, his dealership is requiring all Superduty buyers to sign a waiver agreeing that if they do ANY aftermarket engine mods their engine and drive train warranty is void.

Whistle tips?

http://emuse.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/154

Sorry, I couldn't resist. It's one of my favorite video clips...

[Tough Guy]

Is it dramatic to be concerned about the PCM pulling you back to idle 3 - 5 seconds after a high temp indication? I see accidents with injury and law suits that will cripple Ford in the future.

Everyone should be concerned considering the fact that GM and Dodge will have similar exhaust treatments, and will likely be involved in the same kinds of issues.


Chris

[john8662]

So, aren't these rigs supposedly "clean diesel" rigs?

Followed a Ford 6.4 and in-town driving it did emit black particulate..

Just curious...

But in other matters, I've been wanting a flame thrower for my exhaust system ever since I saw some ricers doing it.

I'll be sure to give the ford house a shout on the remains of the recalled system :D

J

[Robyn]

very impressive afterburner.
Need to set that up as duals and use the thrust for those long tough grades.

Also good to piss off the guy with the little rice ball sitting next to you at the light as you melt his drivers side window and burn off his new 40 layer muticolor trick paint job.

The wheat farmers are gonna love these babies!!! ;0( Poof

Ya just have to wonder why we keep letting special interest groups and beaurocrats mandate the design criteria on our vehicles.

Does sorta look kewl though, thats gotta be impressive at night with all that fire coming out the back.

Momma is not gonna be real happy when she gets her new horsie trailer to the show and discovers the whole front of the unit is burned off and her prize saddle pony has no hair left. Hmmmm

Only in America ;0)

Robyn

[Robyn]

Just rereading some of the other posts in this thread.
Hmmm Im out here roaring down the interstate pulling my 30 ft fifth wheel trailer and trying to negotiate a pass on a steep grade and am almost ready to pull back into the right lane when the SES light begins to blink and then the power calls off abruptly.

OMG I need a change of shorts just thinking about this scenario.

I agree with what RJ mentioned, Tsk Tsk Tsk lawsuits are in Fords future for sure.

Having such a system is totally out to lunch. This is a hazard to navigation and will no doubt lead to wrecks.

I could not enjoy driving a rig the you would never know when it was gonna shut off and hang you out to dry.

Just think the next time you pass that Super B train out on the freeway and pull back in, your stroke shuts down and the last thing you see is that Peterbuilt crawling over your tailgate, NO THANKS

[ThumperTDC]

The wheat farmers are gonna love these babies!!! ;0( Poof


Kinda like this :D

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL483/1156929/6021829/107490553.jpg

This one was taken right before the first picture. You can see the rig I was on in the middle right side, the white state forestry fire engine.

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL483/1156929/6021829/107931276.jpg

[durazap73]

Now i heard that the ford problems also caused some honda problems. B/C the fords kept blowing out flames and catching the hondas on fire.

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

I totally, completely, unequivocally agree with RJ; well, maybe...

What are we gonna say when Toyota stuffs a diesel into that pickup they're selling, & gets it right? I have no insider knowledge that says they will, but can you doubt for even one second that: 1) they will indeed put a mondo diesel into their truck; & 2) they'll get it right? I won't have one in my driveway, but my money's on both happening.

I keep saying it: It isn't Chev vs Ford vs Dodge - without some miracle, we're ALL gonna be driving Toyotas & Nissans in 5 or 10 years.

Please, prove me wrong. :confused:

Blessings!

[keplinger78]

Good Day!

I totally, completely, unequivocally agree with RJ; well, maybe...

What are we gonna say when Toyota stuffs a diesel into that pickup they're selling, & gets it right? I have no insider knowledge that says they will, but can you doubt for even one second that: 1) they will indeed put a mondo diesel into their truck; & 2) they'll get it right? I won't have one in my driveway, but my money's on both happening.

I keep saying it: It isn't Chev vs Ford vs Dodge - without some miracle, we're ALL gonna be driving Toyotas & Nissans in 5 or 10 years.

Please, prove me wrong. :confused:

Blessings!

Hello All,
If Toyota put a Cat in there Tundra and a set of dual wheels....Well I know where my money would go...If I have any left after fixing the 93 6.5 turbo...I would love to have a Tundra for a welding truck...I'm GM all the way but like you said...If they build it it will be right!!! It's a shame that they are more American made than any other Trucks...Toyota plant right here in WV...May-be Bill Davis can talk Cat in to giving him a motor for one of the Tundras...LOL(Nascar Truck) Just for those who don't know Cat sponsors Toyota in Nascar Nextel Cup Racing!!!! That would be sweet!!!

Just a thought!!!

[keplinger78]

Whistle tips?

http://emuse.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/154

Sorry, I couldn't resist. It's one of my favorite video clips...


That's just to damn funny....Ford needs these on there trucks so they can warn people to stay clear!!! I like the guy's driving style!!!Wrong side of the road...Traffic coming!!!

Later Tom K.

[Duramaster]

Uhhhhhhhhhh............... I'm not sure how the (ford or dodge) works, but the LMM injects fuel on the exhaust stroke to fuel the DPF. I was told that on the CAT engines, they use a separate injector to inject fuel into the exhaust stream to help heat up the DPF. If you ever get a chance to check one out in a new "PETERBILT" you should. The new CATERPILLAR engine is pretty ugly with its compound turbos and DPF system.;)

[robertb6963]

Whistle tips?

http://emuse.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/154

Sorry, I couldn't resist. It's one of my favorite video clips...

Whoop whoop!!!!!

Funny stuff...

[Vaquero45]

Uhhhhhhhhhh............... I'm not sure how the (ford or dodge) works, but the LMM injects fuel on the exhaust stroke to fuel the DPF. I was told that on the CAT engines, they use a separate injector to inject fuel into the exhaust stream to help heat up the DPF. If you ever get a chance to check one out in a new "PETERBILT" you should. The new CATERPILLAR engine is pretty ugly with its compound turbos and DPF system.;)
That's pretty much what I was thinking while reading this. Peterbilt uses CAT and Cummins most commonly in the 07-08 trucks. The release of the CAT with the regen was delayed slightly because it BURNED THROUGH the elbow just below the burner. Cummins had it figured out right out of the gate and now the percentage of Cummins we see in Petes has risen tremendously!
As far as the shut down to idle on the new Fords, it sounds to me that this is only in the case of a severe problem, not everytime the regen lights. Granted, it still makes for scary possibilities!! All of the new heavy trucks are having to use this regen also, combine that with all the medium and light trucks being produced and it will be just another common component to deal with. At least, I keep telling myself this :D.

Hey Duramaster, ever notice how much the new Cat ACERT and the 6.4 PSD look alike? ;)

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

I forgot to mention: there won't be such a Toyota or similar in my driveway unless & until all other options don't exist anymore. The Japanese make the best vehicles on earth, especially Toyota, but I don't like their trade policies & such.


Blessings!
(signature in previous post)

[Philsauto]

I just got back from several days of scope training in Cleveland and Bruce Amaker of Turbo Training was there. He is a strictly Ford/Navistar trainer and he told me about the flaming exhaust video. As you can hear in the video, the truck had an injector that was absolutely hammering. He showed us some pictures of the back end of the 6.4 DPF with the exhaust pipe dropped down. It was spotlessly clean so I'm wondering about the post that said they saw soot coming from the tailpipe of a 6.4.

We may hate these emission controls, but they are the only way we are ever going to get acceptable emissions and wide spread use of the diesel motor in the US. Europe runs somewhere around 40% diesel powered vehicles and we are down around 3%, all due to the emissions (euro diesel cars will not meet our specs). The regeneration of the DPF at vehicle speed without other problems should not create fires or other troubles. Bruce Amaker reports that problems with the 6.4 are something like 20% of the problems experienced when Ford shifted from the 7.3L to the 6.0L.

I'm a GM guy, but I like diesel technology and the added 35% fuel economy is a great way to reduce our thirst for Mid Eastern oil which is a big part of our troubles in the world today.

[butch7]

This is what happens when out of control government legislates technologies into the market. The EPA is killing this country and needs to be eliminated. It is nothing more than a bastion of communism....
...gotta say I agree....

[cowboywildbill]

Gee, I thought that Ford did that on purpose so that in the Winter climates it could melt the ice and snow from the rear wheels to aid in traction? Boy I bet Al Gore is having a fit seeing that video, "talk about Global Warming" How many (Carbon Credits "taxes" )would you have to purchase for just one of those Regen's? LOL

[mobob]

I Am First Time Writer Here To See If The Product I Am Looking For Actually Exists. I Own A 2004 F250 Crew Cab I Bought New With A 6.0 . I Am Disapointed With The Fuel Mileage I Get 15.2 Combination And 19 Hwy If I Really Baby It. I Had A Chevy Blazer With A Diesel About 10 Yrs Ago That Gave Me Upper 20's Mpg. My 6.0 Has A Lot More Power, But I Would Gladly Give That Up For Some Superior Mileage. Like Most People, I Drive My F250 For Transportation And Not Hauling Anything, So I Don't Need The Power. Every Chip I Read About Offers More Power And Says It Enhances Fuel Mileage. I Want A Chip That Is There To Give A Lot More Mileage Without Adding Power. Possibly A Flip Switch To Go From Present Power To Mileage Mode.at A Dollar Per Gallon More Than Gas, Without Decent Fuel Mileage, Diesels Aren't Worth The Added Cost. By The Way I Added K&n Air Filter Kit With No Improvement In Mileage The Techs At The Ford Dealer Says That The Mileage Problem Is Because Of The Emissions, But I Don't Agree. Mu Cat In My Kenworth Is 500 Hp And Gives Me Better Mileage Than Any Engine I Had Before Electronic Controls. I Think Banks Could Offer A Chip That Was Only Engineered For Mileage At Less Hp

[Tough Guy]

Give this guy a shout.... tadd@elite-diesel.com he does custom tuning and is really good with the 6.0 PSD.

Chris