View Full Version : No heat for 12 miles, then instant heat, then coolant puke...
2002 DA w/135,000 miles;
This started about 4 days ago... Cool morning, drove about 20 minutes, pulled into the driveway, got out and smelled coolant. Passenger side wheelwell covered in coolant. Refilled to cold line once it cooled down. No low coolant warning indicator.
Next morning, after 10 minutes highway speeds, no heat, temp gauge on 160 then it slowly rises to about 190, with return of heat. About 30 seconds later, low coolant warning, wheelwell covered in coolant again.
Is this a thermostat problem, or something else? I had the injectors replaced at about 99,000 miles. I've searched for previous posts, but other than cracked blocks or blown head gaskets, leaky injector cups, and other stuff that I'm sure won't be touched under any type of warranty coverage, I haven't been able to find the same symptoms. I have NO heat, then heat, then coolant puke. I did find Heat, then NO heat, then coolant puke, that was blown head gaskets.
Is it possible that both thermostats are bad? Where in the system is the coolant that the temperature sensor measures? Am I heating coolant up somewhere outside of the sensor loop that finally gets released when the t-stat opens, and then it pukes that out?
Scott
Mark Rinker
06-11-2007, 09:26
You have either a blown head gasket, or bad injector cup seal. Welcome to the club. What you describe are the classic symptoms of cooling system pressurization.
Try this to convince yourself: At cold startup (most effective with both thermostats closed) put the truck in park with parking brake on, and have an assistance rev and hold the engine at 2K rpm. Observe the coolant overflow tank above the inlet of the small diameter coolant return line - (which routes from the top of the radiator where pressurized air collects).
You'll see a stream of bubbles rising to the top of the overflow tank. Eventually, enough will form to cause the coolant to be forced out the overfow tube on to the ground.
Sorry for the bad news.
Ok... not what I wanted to hear. I will try the bubble test a little later after the engine cools down for sure.
A few questions in the meantime:
1) What would the symptoms be if the thermostats WERE bad? Why do I have no heat for 12 miles, then suddenly consistent heat/engine (185-190) temp?
2) How can I differentiate between a head gasket and an injector cup seal? How would the dealer?
The guess the root of the second question is could a blown head gasket be related to the injector job fom 36,000 miles ago? Or even an injector cup seal? Or will they simply tell me it's been too long, too many miles? I rarely do any towing, and have never had any type of perfomance enhancement.
Thanks...
Scott
Ok, refilled reservoir to the cold line, ran the bubble test @2000 rpm for 10 minutes, temp got up to about 185, no bubbles, no puking... towards the end of the test, the temp actually dropped down to about 170-175 or so.
Scott
DmaxMaverick
06-11-2007, 11:40
An airlock can cause the same symptoms. Has the coolant system been open lately? Once it's completely bled, it should normalize.
You can capture some coolant and have it analyzed for combustion gas properties. For the time being, place a container, like an empty coolant jug, under the hood and route the overflow tube into it. This will capture the puked coolant. Less mess, and you can reuse it until you get your issue figured out.
No, no coolant work by me, other than the tank puking out it's entire contents the other day, that was the first time I've ever had to even open the reservoir. Although I'm assuming when the dealer replaced all 8 injectors 36K ago, they had to drain the system out?
I'll try bleeding it out later today, once it cools down again from the bubble test. It is the original coolant, which I had planned on replacing anyway. Maybe the truck is just reminding me.
Thanks,
Scott
DmaxMaverick
06-11-2007, 11:55
It would have bled itself during the first few miles of normal driving. The bleed procedure requires several runs up to governor for a few seconds at a time. Don't worry, it won't hurt anything. If you have the cap off, it will puke out a lot of coolant. It works well if the cap is engaged with about 1 thread. It would be a good idea to have the overflow container I described above during this process, as some coolant will still puke out.
If you, or anyone else, did anything to the cooling system, and this issue just showed up, don't be to optimisic. Something happened, and it's probably not a good thing. You could get lucky and just had a stuck thermostat(s), but not likely. An airlock would explain the no heat thing. The problem is diagnosing why it happened in the first place.
Duramaster
06-11-2007, 18:24
Ok Scott........... If this was me, I would remove all eight glowplugs and pressure test the cooling system. And then after letting set for a few minutes, crank the engine and look for coolant vapors. I usually have an assistant on observing side of the engine while I observe the other. I then turn the engine over using a remote starter. ;)
killerbee
06-12-2007, 14:33
a small chance that your cap is bad, not holding pressure, or is cracked.
The chances that both stats are bad, is 1/1,000,000. The ECT sensor is on the stat housing, to answer your question.
The bubble test that was suggested by Mark is a good idea. But you need to remove a stat first, or be sure ECT is up over 200-205, otherwise there will be no flow (and no bubbles) through the degas circuit. Mark Im not sure what you were trying to say, I apologize for speaking over you. The degas will get no flow until the stat cracks. I know the jiggly ball mechanism in the rear stat is suppose to pass gas, but I have found that it doesn't work as described. Maybe I am wrong.
DmaxMaverick
06-12-2007, 15:31
The bubble test will work with stats in place. The results are just more immediate and profound with them out. If there is gas in the system, it will find its way to the tank, without a doubt. Immediate pressure on a cold engine is just as much an indicator.
Duramaster
06-12-2007, 23:51
What you need to fill the cooling system is THIS------>http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=68340&group_ID=12500&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
I know, I know it's a SNAP-ON TOOL. I just can't help it. It's the mechanic in me! There are other brands. I really like the KENT MOORE that GM sent us (VAC-N-FILL).
I'm pretty sure that your problem is not a fill problem.
Philsauto
06-13-2007, 00:03
[QUOTE=SDWA]Ok... not what I wanted to hear. I will try the bubble test a little later after the engine cools down for sure.
A few questions in the meantime:
1) What would the symptoms be if the thermostats WERE bad? Why do I have no heat for 12 miles, then suddenly consistent heat/engine (185-190) temp?
2) How can I differentiate between a head gasket and an injector cup seal? How would the dealer?
The guess the root of the second question is could a blown head gasket be related to the injector job fom 36,000 miles ago? Or even an injector cup seal? Or will they simply tell me it's been too long, too many miles? I rarely do any towing, and have never had any type of perfomance enhancement.
>>>>>
Phils Auto, 2001 D/A, 152k miles, similar problem
I really want to know the answer to your question number 2. Nobody seems to have it. The GMC dealer told me mine was head gaskets, but can't explain to me how they know it is not the injector cup seals. Head gaskets are no fun on this motor. The dealer cost to do the job for me was quoted at $4000. I have my own shop and can do it myself, but it frustrates me that no one can tell me how they know the pressure in the cooling system and the coolant usage is caused by the head gaskets and not the o-rings. I pulled my 10,000 pound fifth wheel up 25 miles of varying 5% grade and blew out very little coolant. The temp on my 2001 Dmax never cleared 200 degrees and is rock steady. It warms up just fine when cold (California, cold is kind of relative) so I don't have the heater problems you do. But it can sit all night and I still have pressure in the overflow tank in the am. My truck has 152k miles and has never had the injectors done. They won't do them yet under the warranty either, apparently due to the coolant problem.
Duramaster
06-13-2007, 06:59
There really isn't a way to tell the difference between the injector sleeve leak and the headgasket. Sooooooooo.......... when a vehicle comes in, I do the test as stated earlier, remove the suspect sleeve and inspect the head. If all is ok, reseal the sleeve and reinstall the injector, reassemble and retest. :)
Well.. I think I dodged a $4000 bullet. At least I hope so...
Performed the relatively inexpensive task ($90) of replacing both thermostats and the tank cap, filled the system back up, bled out the air, and so far, with about 100+ miles it's been good, early even then stable heat, no pukeage of coolant, and no low coolant messages.
So we'll see if that solves the problem!
In the meantime, can someone tell me where exactly the "full cold" line is on the reservoir tank? The diesel supplement booklet says it's the short line/tab molded in about 1" up from the middle seam, above the words FULL COLD. An arrow on the tank to the left of the FULL COLD printing points down at the seam itself. For now I've settled between the two, but just curious which is correct...
Scott
DmaxMaverick
06-13-2007, 14:17
The level isn't that critical. Just get into the neighborhood. It only has to be low enough to not puke when hot, and high enough to not suck air as it cools.
Mark Rinker
06-13-2007, 15:47
I don't want to sound pessimistic, but my advice would be to add a can of Bar's Leaks and go trade the truck while you still believe that the problem is solved.... :)
Went through the nearly the same troubleshooting excercise. You'll do well in hot weather as the t-stats will open quickly, before the coolant overflow tank has time to pressurize. In cold weather, it seems to pressurize quicker, and as the thermostats cycle closed.
However, the lack of bubbles visible is encouraging...hopefully you solved it with the thermostats...although...how would a single stuck thermostat pressurize the overflow jug? Hmmm...
Philsauto
06-13-2007, 22:30
There really isn't a way to tell the difference between the injector sleeve leak and the headgasket. Sooooooooo.......... when a vehicle comes in, I do the test as stated earlier, remove the suspect sleeve and inspect the head. If all is ok, reseal the sleeve and reinstall the injector, reassemble and retest. :)
>>>>>
Do I need the special Kent-Moore tool to remove and install the sleeves?
Thanks!
Duramaster
06-13-2007, 23:20
The KENT-MOORE Tool P/N J 45910 is the only tool that I am aware of that will remove and install the injector sleeves.
The coolant purging was being caused by 5 leaking injector sleeves.
See my post here: http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=28136
Scott
NutNbutGMC
07-21-2007, 19:07
The coolant purging was being caused by 5 leaking injector sleeves.
See my post here: http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=28136
ScottLB7....
Third set on my 02. I traded at 98K.
Good luck indeed. Warranty is a wonderful thing but I couldn't take it any more.
Click to enlarge.
http://img179.imagevenue.com/loc25/th_74868_IMG_0544_122_25lo.JPG (http://img179.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc25&image=74868_IMG_0544_122_25lo.JPG)
Horse_gal_jen
07-24-2007, 07:03
Performed the relatively inexpensive task ($90) of replacing both thermostats and the tank cap, filled the system back up, bled out the air, and so far, with about 100+ miles it's been good, early even then stable heat, no pukeage of coolant, and no low coolant messages.
had the same symptoms with mine, we did a pressure test and the coolant resevoir cap failed miserably, changed it and had no further problems.
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