"Injectors Again"

[MaxACL]

Here we go again…

My baby smokes when it sets at idle too long, say for a long red light, and it looks like I’m smoking for mosquitoes when I drive off. This last for a block or two. A garage in Oregon spent four hours on it and after consulting with a paid service on the phone, they think it’s an injector pump going bad and contaminating the injectors. All injectors are now needing replacing.

A little history… These injectors were replaced five months ago at my own expense (201,000 miles, no more warranty). The reason for the replacement was smoking at idle. This set was my fifth (5th) set.

I have a large diesel tank in the bed and there are times (when low) when I’m in an incline the pickup tube will suck in air and the engine will starve. In the past I can switch to the regular tank and it will restart while I’m still on a roll.

Has anyone else herd of this smoking problem before?

Now I need to make a choice… replace the injectors (again) and the injector pump, replace the engine with a Goodwrench rebuilt, replace with a Jasper engine, or replace the truck.

1.) Replace the injectors & pump: about $4,500 ??? The engine has 260,000 miles and possible metal shavings damage from the pump. It has also had a slight knocking for the past 2 to 3 years like maybe a flat spot on the crank or a rod… I don’t know but it’s not that loud and it’s not a “Diesel” knock.

2.) Who rebuilds the Goodwrenches? I was quoted $7,500. Everything is replaced except the starter and alternator. I pay for installation and I think freight. 1 year/100,000 miles.

3.) Jasper remanifactures are suppose to be real good and the warranty is 2 years/ unlimited miles (wow). On the web the cost was $17,000, I pay for the install and I think the freight. The shop in Oregon that gave me the bad news quoted me $15,000. That included install, freight and replaced Clutch, PP and flywheel. “15k and I drive away”.

4.) Hummm. I love my DuraMax truck. I bought it when I was in the desert (no, not ours) and I’ve had it for almost six years. Maintenance is/has eaten my lunch. The transfer case has been replaced once (the fluid mysteriously disappeared and it locked up) then a rebuild recently because of a hole in the case and again the fluid went away, water pump (no big deal), the California emissions never has worked right (the SES light is always on because of the EGR, glow plug controller/relay, partridge and a pear tree). When does this stop? I was looking at a Ford 450…wow. The Fords get 300-400k on their injectors and the unit cost is about $150 compares to the DuraMaxs $350 each.

Here’s the data on my truck:
’02 LB7
CA emissions (from a mechanics point of view, this changes everything)
260,000 miles horizontal; 100’s vertical
ZF 6 manual
5 sets of injectors, 6th is on the way
I had an Edge chip on it but it was removed till I get this problem fixed.

The truck itself is solid, quite, very comfortable, a real head turner when it’s washed and it’s an extension of my family. I’d really hate to get rid of it but I have to cut my losses somewhere.

Anyone care to add two cents?

Mike

[More Power]

Don't assume the worst till the various components have been inspected.

Test the rail pressure. If the injectors are removed, have them tested before replacing them.

In short, I would have the shop prove to me that a part was bad before authorizing replacement.

Jim

[MaxACL]

Good point on the test but how would I find a place that test injectors and can they be inspected without removal?

How do you test the rail pressure or is this something the computer will tell?

Thanks Jim.

Mike

[Duramaster]

The pump can be tested by ramping up the rail pressure with a TECH2, but that is only part of the picture. During injector diagnosis if the rail pressure does not ramp up to spec, the first step is to replace the injectors and then if the pressure still does not ramp up to spec then replace the pump.

Now you could try and save money on parts by performing the return volume test on the individual injectors, but that is a lengthy process and at my dealership our labor rate is $94 an hour. And with the LB7, the injectors are the culprit in most cases.

As far as engine warranty on the GM reman engine goes, I will TRY to remember to ask what the Goodwrench warranty is on the LB7 DMAX tomorrow.

[DarylB]

You're a patient man, I would have traded it after the 2nd set of injectors.

[Harley Bob]

I've just joined the forum and am very interested in this injector issue with the Duramax. I have an '02 Duramax that I bought new in '02 and it now has 78K on it. I've noticed little puffs of smoke while idling, which I don't believe it has done before. I did loose one injector at 20K but apparently it was due to an electrical problem with the injector.

Can anyone provide me a list of the diagnostics that should be run or the symptoms that usually occur with failed or failing injectors? From reading the threads, it seems that the problems range from smoke, to mileage loss, to fuel in the sump, etc.. Which ones are considered conclusive? Also, I don't have a fault code reader, but then again, I'm not getting any fault indications on the dash.

Thanks,

[Duramaster]

Hey MAX! The warranty on the GM Goodwrench 6.6 DMAX for personal use is 3 year/ 100000 miles and for commercial use it is 3 year/ 50000 miles. Those are the words from the parts department. ;)

[Duramaster]

Hey Harley. Send me your personal e-mail and I will e-mail the bulletin to you regarding the smoke, hard start, power loss issues. ;)

[NutNbutGMC]

Hey MAX! The warranty on the GM Goodwrench 6.6 DMAX for personal use is 3 year/ 100000 miles and for commercial use it is 3 year/ 50000 miles. Those are the words from the parts department. ;)As a point of clarification for my dense mind, didn't the General extend the injector warranty to 7 years or 200k? I feel certain that this is correct. Please forgive me if I have gotten off base here with the topic, but it seemed a good place to ask, seeing that you have the straight skinny on this area of service, Mr. Service Man Dude..... Thanks.

:tiphat:

[Duramaster]

No problem NUT!!! The warranty I am refering to is the "GOODWRENCH ENGINE" not the injector warranty. That is two separate issues. MAXACL was talking about Goodwrench vs. Jasper engines. ;)

[DmaxMaverick]

The OEM GM Diesel engine warranty is 5 years or 100K. Been the same since 1982. Other warranties have been added, but the OEM Diesel warranty is 5/100, and includes all integral Diesel engine components. The 7/200 warranty covers the Duramax fuel injectors only, for specific failures, for most 2001-2004 LB7 engines. 2005 started the longer "powertrain" warranty, 5/100, IIRC. It started for the 2006 M/Y, and was retro'd to many 2005 models. The B2B warranty is 3/36, and covers everything else. There is also an emissions warranty, which covers most of the fuel system, exhaust, and any emission related components, but varies depending on state of delivery and emission standard installed. There are a few other warranties that cover rust-through, etc, but I don't recall the timing.

[MaxACL]

Duramaster:

The service manager at a GMC place here in Lubbock said that if the engine smokes at idle and idles rough AND you have the 6 speed manual, then the sleeve in the dual mass flywheel has failed and lets the engine idle so rough (out of balance) that the computer can't keep tabs on the fuel flow and therefore dumps too much fuel into the engine, really. The document number is 1387286. Said the injectors are fine.

I had replaced the flywheel, PP and clutch last Christmas (about 50,000 miles ago). This time it will be with a solid piece flywheel if I can find one. Seems the dual mass is only good for about 100,000 miles.

If anyone is interested in this document, let me know and I'll see if I can figure this scanner out.

Mike

[Duramaster]

Yeah....... I never could understand why they stuck with the dual mass flywheel. I mean come on!!! The stupid 6.5 could break the flywheel, what makes them think that the DMAX wouldn't? I know, I know different transmission etc. But one would thinkt that one would learn from past mistakes!!! I once had a conversation with a GM TAC consultant about the dual mass flywheel on the DMAX. In his own words he stated that the right driver could break one of them in 5 miles!!! And to top that, You loose trailer capacity with the 6 speed trans anyway. I was very glad to see that GM stopped using the 6 speed all together. Less headaches for techs like me. :D

As far as the injectors go, the shop is right about the flywheel. You need to get that fixed before you can address the injectors. I tried to call you last night, got your voice mail and I think I forgot to leave my call back number. :::OOPS!:::

And the warranty I was refering to is the GOODWRENCH WARRANTY, not the OEM WARRANTY (as far as the engine replacement goes).

[MaxACL]

I will change to a solid flywheel at next occation but I have looked up and down and can't find info on a replacement for an LB7. Lots of stuff for racing, dual disk up grades, but no clear message for "A Dual Mass Replacement". South Bend is confusing.

.02 cents please.

Mike

On Edit... I will post this on the 2500/3500 forum also.