6.5T in 2500 likes to die

[xtrempickup]

this truck gives me a lot of good days and also days of being annoyed. It starts well most all the time, but then there are instances when it wil start and then die almost immediately and become a bear to start, and even when its started, keeping it running is hard. Then there are times it starts and runs flawlessly. Also it has the tendency to just cut out and i have to turn it back over and usually it fires right back up. There has been instances that it doesnt want to fire back up and eventually i will get it started and it will be fine for a while. i dont think i have a bad injector pump, i replaced the OPS and pump under the cab about 6 months ago. i'm thinking maybe its one of those other wonderful electronic devices causing me problems under the hood. any ideas anybody ? i dont have a scan tool i can use or borrow and usually dont and diesel repair place here and few and far in between. this is a 95 6.5L Turbodiesel in a 2500 4x4 with automatic trans and 159K miles

[a5150nut]

94 & 95 you don't need a scan tool, just a bent wire or paper clip. In the plug under the stearing colum use your wire/paper clip in the two uper right conectors. Now turn on the ignition and count the blinks of the Service Engine Soon light. It will blink in series of three. One, one two, one, one two, one, one two. This would be connected and everything working. one two three, one two three four five, would be code 35.

Pull your codes and get back to us and somone will help you. First guess would be a bad module on the injection pump. BUT before throwing $$$$$$ at this, get the code and we can save you $$$$.

Welcome to TDP!

[Artworks]

First of all check the battery's voltages, running and static, and then go to all the connections , especialy the grounds. check and clean the terminals going into the FSD 9PMD). Check out the simple things first to eleminate these and check back here often, lots of know how & bin there!

[Robyn]

All very good things to check offered so far.
The symptom you describe sounds like a the infamous PMD taking a poop.

If your truck still has the PMD bolted to the IP (Little black box, about the size of a deck of cards)
You need to try a fresh one on a finned cooler and use an extension cable and get the little devil out of the engine bay.

The wiring is a bit tedius to get off the old pmd but a little screwdriver to lift the lock clip and a little iggle and uggle will get the plug undone and up out of the hole so you can get to it.
Be sure to leave the ground wire hooked to the IP though.

The optical sensor on these pumps can go away too.
There is a small filter harness that has a little black box in the center of it that can cause havock too.
This harness plugs into the top of the IP right under the air plenum.

The filter harness is only about 6-8 inches long and can be replaced quickly.

Ebay will show several outfits selling the 4 and 6 foot extender cables and the coolers and or several of the vendors here offer this sort of thing too.

If you have codes showing, these are the first place to look.
If no codes at all other than (12 means Im ok) then I am suspect of the PMD and or the filter harness.

The grounds are always a good place to start and be sure you have good voltage to the system.
The dual battery system with its managerie of cables and connections is a good place for trouble to start.

Good luck

Robyn

[xtrempickup]

i do have a dual battery, havent looked at the voltages or anything, will check the codes and post back what comes up. can i just replace the PMD in the stock location rather than relocate it, i dont plan on having it forever.

[xtrempickup]

well, it died this morning and took 15 min to get started and get 1 mile to work. must have been startted and died about 20 times. Got my friend to hook up the span on scanner, it wont stay on, the truck has a ground issue like you guys said to check. the screen lights up partially and then shuts off, scanner is new and works on everything and tried on something else to make sure. Can't get anything out of it in terms of codes. I guess i have to start with grounds anyplace they could be. Where do i start looking? i know my battery terminals. Where else should i look to check and clean etc, i dont have a FSM for this truck

[a5150nut]

Block end of ground cables. Rear right head should be a cluster there. Remove, clean with a brass or wire brush, add a little dielectric greese, lock or star washer.

[jpgreen]

I have the same truck, and it has those damn side battery connect terminals. Well someone over tightend one and stripped the threads.

I carved off the rubber insulators around the flat batt contacts, clean them up, trashed the stock bolts and then used a 3/8" (9/16" head) short bolt of the appropriot size length to bold down all the cable connects to the batteries.

This worked like a champ.

Can someone suggest the a good code reader for these trucks?

Thanks

[DmaxMaverick]

......Can someone suggest the a good code reader for these trucks?

Thanks

1995? Here you go.

Add THIS (http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/trblcode.htm), and you have a complete set.

[jpgreen]

Is that a Hemholtz Resonator....? .. :)

[DmaxMaverick]

Is that a Hemholtz Resonator....? .. :)

No. But you could use an HR while you use your code reader. My preferred HR is liquid filled.

[xtrempickup]

i love how a paper clip is gonna help me, except i dont know which pins to jump to watch. i took off both sets of battery cables and cleaned the terminals and i took them off the intake and cleaned the bolts and end and replaced. i cleaned the one wire from the battery cable that connects to the fender on the passnger side. thats about it for what i did. i turned the petcock open to see if it would die or stay running, Well it died. I just replaced the OPS and pump under the cab last winter around this time. i did not feel the pusher pump running and no fuel came out the hose from the petcock. i also replaced the fuel filter probably about 8 months ago, maybe 6 i dont remeber not long ago. im going to see if the reader will connect now, i dont think so tho. this truck might need a professional diesel mechanics help as i'm a turbocharged inline 4 gas kinda guy.

[a5150nut]

paper clip goes in the two upper righ openings.

[DmaxMaverick]

i love how a paper clip is gonna help me, except i dont know which pins to jump to watch......


The LINK (http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/trblcode.htm) I included with the sophisticated diagnostic scan tool picture has complete instructions, a picture of the ALDL showing the pins to jump, and a code list. Nothing more is needed. If you want more, I'll have to come over and do it for you. C to C plane tickets are too expensive, so I suggest you try the DIY.

[a5150nut]

Just be Extreeeeeemly carefull not to short it between the seat and the stearing wheel! :D

[xtrempickup]

that link is no good, i cant access whatever you are posting.

[DmaxMaverick]

OIC

Go to THIS (https://thedieselpage.com/form.htm) link. Then the first link will work.

[xtrempickup]

i guess i need to find another way to get the information

[bl78ljb]

Try this link.
http://autorepair.about.com/library/ts/obd-i/bl-dtcs-75.htm

[jpgreen]

Liquid filled HR. Is that like an "aqua lung"?

[DmaxMaverick]

Liquid filled HR. Is that like an "aqua lung"? :mrgreen:

Not that I'm aware of. A lot more simple than that. You have to get out of the box.

[xtrempickup]

ok that is what i jumper to get it to spit out codes if its going to. thanks

[xtrempickup]

was able to finally geat a code reader to spit out the codes. no new codes, just 15 stored ones

13- Engine shutoff driver fault

17- High resolution sensor fault

18- Pump cam reference fault error

29- Glow plug relay fault

32- Egr system problem

33- Map input high

35- Injector pulse width error- short response

36-Injector pulse width error - long response

46- Malfunction indicator lamp circuit

54- TIO Fault

78- Turbo wastegate solenoid

87- High Ratio

91 Cylinder balance fault #1 cyl

96- Cylinder balance fault #6 cyl

99- Pedal position 2 ( 5volt reference fault)


This is what the snap on reader lists everything as. I know some are not related, I know some are old. what does this tell me in regards to where to start looking with the shutting off and not wanting to start issue?

[JohnC]

Codes all over the map. Look at the stalling thread locked at the top of this forum.

Pay special attention to your battery connections, the power connections at the starter, and all the ground points, especially the one at the top rear of the passeger side cylinder head.

[xtrempickup]

started scrolling through the sticky for stalling. I went through the grounds for the battery cables and cleaned and reconnected them on the battery and the intake and the fender. i didnt touch anything on the head as i never had it apart nor did i have this problem before. I'm going to assume the PMD on this is in the stock location, I dont know where to look as i didnt even know where the injection pump is on it. considering the codes i have, It would point to PMD being on its way out, 35, 36 and 13. The rest could be from when i originally got it and it had the wastegate wired shut and the turbo would boost 14 psi and the truck would buck and what not. The cylinder issues i dont have any idea about. I guess i have to drive it some and see what returns in terms of codes.

[DmaxMaverick]

Ignore the codes. Look for a global cause, like connector(s) and grounds. If it isn't a connector or ground, your PCM is toast. If your PMD is bad, it will only be coincidental, and you will still have the codes you have now after you replace it. DTC's 35, 36 and 13 are not effected by the PMD's health.

[xtrempickup]

where is the PCM on this truck? i want to check the connections as the scanner still wont hook up to the computer using the lighter as a source of power, not enouhg, had to use the battery as a source of ground and power directly to get it to read. would it pay to take this to a Diesel oriented technician so that i could possibly have a good running truck that runs good all the time, not just 75% of it

[Robyn]

ECM is behind the glove box and just over the HVAC assembly.
Remove the glove box and the little beast is right there in a little rack.

This situation screams loudly of battery connections, grounds and or some such variation on this theme.

The power cable to the truck comes off the battery + cable on the LH side battery. It runs a short distance to the main relay/junction box.
The side terminal cables are notorious for inner corrosion that cant be seen.

The ground cables are the same way. If you are getting spotty connections and or wierd voltages it will drive this thing crazy.
An alternator that has a bad diode and is putiing out AC voltage can really louse this stuff up too.

Alternator------- Check for proper operation on a test bench
Battery grounds--- Replace
Positive cables----Replace
Check grounds at back of RH head and make sure they are clean, tight and all the wires there are in good order.
Make sure you have a good body to engine ground. (Firewall to hard point on engine)

Make sure the little ground wire on the fuel solenoid is grounded to the top of the IP.
In many cases people install a remote PMD cooler and then place the ground wire on the cooler.
The ground needs to be on the IP as it was from the factory.

Now unhook the batteries and wait a few minutes for the electronics to settle. Reconnect the system and run the truck and then see what codes pop up. ( this will wipe the memory of all the old stuff and allow a fresh look)

Any time there are a truckload of odd unrelated codes this points a big stick at voltage and ground issues.
When grounds go bad the flow of power will try very hard to do its job and when the regular path it is supposed to take is fouled it will try to solve the puzzle any way it can to get to ground.
With the advanced electronics this sort of activity will screw it up to the point that it will simply fail to work or all sorts of crap will happen.
For instance you might turn on the RH blinker and the engine would rev up and down.
Dont laugh, I have seen this crap happen with goofy grounding issues.

The connections at the back of the engines main harness are also a spot to look at.
There are some large plugs right at the very rear of the engine on a little bracket. These plugs are from the engines main wiring harness that feeds the IP and all the important sensors.
These have a weather tight seal on them BUTTTTTTTTTTT anything is possible on a used truck.



***Now just a warning*** Many technicians run around with a scanner looking for smoking guns and if the issue is a ground or connection problem, they are not going to find it.

The proper approach when the issue seems hopeless is to eliminate the possibilities one layer at a time with the easy stuff first.

Once the easy stuff is off the list you can move a little deeper into the system.
Many techs want to dive right in and start replacing ECM's and all sorts of stuff when the real issue is simply a dirty ground.

Let us know what you find.

Robyn

[Robyn]

In rereading this entire thread, I see that I mentioned that the PMD is probably a very good suspect.
Has this been eliminated from the list of usual suspects yet.

Any time I have a 6.5 thats doing the stall, restart and other wierd crap I swap in a known good pmd just to be sure.
Fish the wires off the PMD and remote a fresh one with a new #5 resistor in it.

I would almost bet this will solve the dilema.

Best
Robyn

[xtrempickup]

See i dont have a new one and as i read more and more stalling threads, most say replace the PMD with the relocated unit and they also say check the grounds. i have not looked at the other grounds as i'm just figuring where they are as you ppl start pointing me in the direction of them. i'm getting a solid 14 volts with the truck running according the the gauge in the dash( could be less or more doubt hte stock gauge is super accurate) with the lights on it drops to about 13.5 or so, just under the 14V mark. I know there is an issue with power as i cant hook it up to the scanner using the ground in the connector and the cigarette lighter for power. It did work last winter, but wont hook up to it that way anymore, i guess just not enough power getting through or a poor ground connection. I have no FSm for this truck and i dont have any spare parts for it at all. really makes it hard to swap out items to rule them out. I looked online a PMD is about 70$ for a guranteed working used bench tested unit and the # 5 resistor is about 20$. is that a good price to pick up these parts for? how do you change resistors on these things? i barely even know where to look for the inj pump on this thing. also found the 6 foot cable to relocate it for different prices, wondering should i get all 3 parts and then i have them to swap in after i check the remaining grounds.

[JohnC]

The ground on the back of the head is crucial as the PCM and all the engine mounted sensors ground there.

[xtrempickup]

which righ one on the passenger side or the driver side? i was told one was on the firewall or something>?

[JohnC]

On one of the rear intake manifold bolts on the right (passenger's side if you're of left hand drive persuasion) head

[xtrempickup]

if they made a right hand drive diesel pickup in america i'd be all over it. i guess i'l check that one out if i can find it

[xtrempickup]

Stone dead, killed both batteries trying to turn it over. left me stranded today. Good Grief

[joe bleaux]

You must be an e.e. to know of a Hemholz resonator.

Joe



Is that a Hemholtz Resonator....? .. :)

[xtrempickup]

well i'm charging my batteries, I ordered the 6 ft long PMD cable and looking for a good PMD and i'm gonna see what that nets me. would also be nice to see if it starts after i put the charged battery in

[xtrempickup]

put the charged battery in and it fired up like it figured it would. i guess i should wait for my new PMD before i start driving it around anymore and get stuck again. hopefully that and the relocate will fix it