4l60e

[SEABEECM1]

dont know if this question is in the right spot but i am in the progress of installing a 6.2 in a 93 astro i have learned i cant install a 700R4 trans where a 4L60E which is the original trans in the van so can a 4L60E work on a 6.2 if not i need to locate a older astro with a 700R4 hope this makes sense

[DmaxMaverick]

The 4L60E is a good tranny, and will work well behind a 6.2. It is an upgraded electronic 700, for all intents and purposes.

However.....
Not sure why you can't use a 700R4. It doesn't require electric input, except for the TCC, which can be worked around. You will need a gasser PCM or a stand alone controller to operate a 60. Not sure how you will get the 60 to work w/o a stand alone, as the gasser engine inputs will be missing.

Also, if you happen to need a 4L60E, I happen to have one. Fresh with less than 1000 miles on it.

[Robyn]

If its a regular astro with a 4L60 you can install a 700R4 with no problem.
The astro probably has computer controls on the engine as well as the tranny now.
You will need to scrounge up a 700R thats for either a V8 application or a diesel and then the cable brackets and such for the throttle pressure cable on the 700.

The 700 and the 4L60 are identical accept for the controls.
The 4L is all electronically controled as far as shifts and throttle pressure.

The 700R is all hydraulic and mechanical controls.
The issues I see are the speedo (maybe) as it is run via the output speed sensor through the computer.

If your Astro is an all wheel drive model you may also have to do some mixing and matching on the output shaft of the 700R.
All the parts to do this swap are available via the scrounge em up mixem and matchem method.

I personally have never done one of these but it should be fine once you get all the pieces in place.

The other way to do it might be to use the 4L60 and adapt the original TPS sensor from the rig to work with the Injection pump via an adapter of some sort so you can control the tranny shifts.

The TPS tells the computer where the throttle is and will set the pressures in the tranny accordingly.
The 4L used in the astro is fairly limited as to what it can stand. The clutch packs are sized for the little V6 and not for the torque that the 6.2 is capable of.
Also the converter needs to be for the diesel.
Again all the components can be mixed and matched to make it work fine but you are going to need to sort it all out.

Personally I would build the 4L thats in the truck with some beefier innards including a HD converter so it will handle the 6.2.
The computer can be fooled so it stays fairly happy and will run the tranny and the instruments such as the speedo.
Without some serious fooling around you are most likely going to get codes as the 6.2 will not have all the sensors that the computer wants to see.

The map sensor will be missing so this is one area. The oxygen sensor will be gone as the stock exhaust wont be suitable for the 6.2

Now you will need to retain the Coolant temp sensor. This is needed so the ECM will know when the engine is at operating temperture and will allow the converter clutch to work.
As long as the basic sensor readings are there the original ECM should run the tranny fine.
The ECM is going to be confused as it will be short some inputs but this is no biggy as they will apply to fuel controls mostly and not make all that much difference.

As long as the TPS is feeding good data the system should work.

You can work around and or defeat all the issues with the sensors but you must keep things happy with enough things so the ECM (Computer) will run the tranny properly.
Ultimately you may have to remove the MIL light due to some variables that cant be dealt with easily resulting in a fault code)

Possibly you may be able to use the TPS for a 92-93 6.5 that had the 4L80
This sensor will bolt right onto the IP of the 6.2 and I am thinking may send the proper signals that the ECM wants to see.
A little cruising through the service books will probably give you enough technical info to accertain what voltages are needed and where they should be seen. ( The TPS has a reference voltage and then a variable voltage that varies with throttle opening)

If the sensor will work you can screw around with the adjustment to get the shifts and such correct.
A pressure gauge hooked to the main line on the tranny will help a lot when doing the adjustments.

The sensors for stuff like Oil pressure and engine temp will need to follow from the truck.
You may have to move some wiring to get it hooked up depending on where the stock parts were located though.

Hmmmm the intank fuel pump is going to be too high of a pressure for the 6.2 IP to handle. There will need to be a modification here to get the pressure down to about 5 psi max.

Possibly a regulator before the IP or a little rework at the tank and a different pump such as the ones used on the later 6.5 trucks.
The van should have an oil pressure switch/relay activated fuel pump system and this can and should be retained on the truck as a safety.

I believe the stock sytems run about 35 PSI on the fuel pumps ????????
The truck should have had TBI injection in that year


All workable and the fine folks here can help you over each hurdle as it pops up.

There are going to be issues as you go along but just let us know and we will take them one at a time.

Get the basics hammered out and then we can sweat the small crap later :D

Just remember a good many parts needed to make all this fit and work sweet will be easily found at the bone yard.

If you want to know more about the 4L/700 tranny issues, I am happy to help with this.

I have really jumped all over the map here on the little issues but I wrote the stuff down as it came to mind and I think I have hit the bulk of the spots that may cause issue.

The biggy is building the 4L strong enough as the V6 versions are fairly light in the innards department. A V8 unit can be swapped in but I would rework the existing box with some upgrade parts to get it tough enough to handle the little oil rat.
My reasoning is to keep the electrical connections and such all matching the truck.
This will save you a buttload of electronics grief (At least not add any more to the heap)


Robyn

[convert2diesel]

This is a problem I have been working on for close to three years now. The problem with using the existing gasser ECM is that, at least in the OBD1 units, there seems to be no work around to delete the engine functions. This means the ECM goes into full default and fails to operate the electronic tranny anywhere near correctly.

Using the 700 bypasses all of the problems except for the lock-up and that can be worked around manually. The gauges, speedo and cruise (if equipped) operate on seperate circuits (may be different on a 93) so the only other mod would be a CEL delete (remove bulb). On my Buicks, the ECM sometimes works in unison with the climate control but you can still get all the functions, just that it sometimes acts a little wierd.

Have been working with a company in New Jersey, PCM for less, that is developing an ECM that will talk to all the rest of the computers on-board and will also control an electronic transmission. They will use the ECM from the electronic 6.5 and do an engine function delete. Haven't talked to them lately but they were close three months ago. WIll contact them to see how they are doing.

Bill

[SEABEECM1]

that sounds awsome i think i will use the 700r4 where can i go to research this lockup convertor also i think on my 93 the speedo works through the computer so i will have to figure that out too

[convert2diesel]

If your speedo is set up like mine, the signal from the VSS (vehicle speed sensor...electronic speedo cable) is routed to a thing called the VSS buffer. This unit delivers 2000 pulses per mile to the computer and 4000 pulses per mile to the speedo and the cruise control. You should be able to yank out the ECM altogether and the speedo and the cruise will still work. A good wiring diagram will confirm this for your truck but I don't think this has changed. Can't see them allowing a primary like the speedo being dependant on the ECM.

The 700 is identical to the 4l60e mechanically. The differences are in what activates the shift. As far as the lock-up is concerned, I just mounted a switch on the dash. Takes some getting used to but it works.

Bill

[SEABEECM1]

the problem with the speedo is i am going from a electronic one to a mechanical one as far as the switch on the dash do you have to activate it everytime the trans goes into high gear for lock up thanks

[convert2diesel]

Please define mechanical. GM has used electronic speedos in all thier offerings since the late eighties. Maybe the confusion is around the analogue/digital issue. My 89 GMC and my Buick both have analogue gauges but they are driven electronically. If you have a physical speedo cable then the it is truly a mechanical gauge and will present more then a fair share of problems, certainly not worth the effort. The 700s all have the electronic sender available to drive an electronic speedo.

In answer to your question about the switch activated lock-up, the answer is yes. Once I am up to speed I just turn it on and the tranny locks up. You have to remember to unlock it on heavy acceleration and you have to remember it is on when you come to a stop. You won't notice it until you get going again as the lock-up will engage as soon as you have shifted into second gear. Not serious but it does tend to be a little un-nerving when it happens.

I just reviewed your original post and something new popped up. Be sure you choose a 700 from an 88 or newer V8 truck or car. The 700s used behind the V6 is a different animal altogether internally. GM in their wisdom decided that the V6 didn't need to handle the torgue of a V8 so the guts are not nearly as strong. Preferably try to find a tranny out of a diesel equipped truck as this will also have the low stall torgue convertor. A gasser torgue can be used but the diesel tranny and torgue is set up to optimize the torgue curve of the 6.2.

Bill

[SEABEECM1]

the trans i have has a cable going to the tailshaft for the speedo my thought on the trans was changing the torque convertor then use that trans since i am not pulling are towing anything most of my driving is highway but more i look into this maybe you are right i need to find a trans in a diesel but so far they are hard to find do you know what year i should look for thanks

[convert2diesel]

The vehicle speed sensor goes into the same place as the speedo cable. Same dimensions etc. To keep the speedo correct you should also use the original gear from your Astro tranny. They are interchangable.

As I said, anything after 88 for a tranny. By that time all the upgrades had been done. Believe they switched over to the 4l60E in 93. Any RWD Chevy or GMC pickup with the diesel will work. The 4X4 tranny tailstock is specific to four wheel drive so look for one with 2WD. It will be the same dimensions as the tranny in your truck now.

Bill

[SEABEECM1]

thanks for all the info off to search for a 2wd diesel suburban

[SEABEECM1]

i noticed today on ebay they sell ecm for 6.2 diesel with a 4l60e what is that all about just a thought

[convert2diesel]

In 93 and 94 it was possible to get a 6.5 turbo or NA with a mechanicla pump but with the 4l60 or 4l80 electronic trannies. They had a standalone controller that controlled the tranny alone.

Don't know if that is what you were looking at but to my knowledge, the 6.2 never came with an electronic pump. Some of them had a rudimentary ecm to control the egr and the lock-up.

Bill

[SEABEECM1]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1993-CHEVY-GMC-TRUCK-VAN-6-2-DIESEL-ECM-16168625-BBCF_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33596QQihZ017QQite mZ270137644179QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

dont know if that link will work if not ebay # 270137644179

[convert2diesel]

Don't know for sure if this is the controller you want but it is for the right year and chassis. Always thought the 93s were 6.5 mechanical turbos but I may be mistaken. Might be worth it to emial him to make sure.

If it is the right controller, I would check with the tranny gys here to see what, if any differences there were between the diesel and the V6 gasser 4L60s. I do know the torque convertor is lower stall but have little or no experience with the electronic trannies. Try to avoid "puters" wherever I can.

Bill

[Subzilla]

Bill McD, good to see you here on the Page! You helped me quite a bit over on the biodiesel infopop forum with your transmission knowledge.

Glad to have you here!

[convert2diesel]

Hi Mark:

Actually joined in early 2000 but dropped out for a couple of years and had to re-register. Glad to see I was of some help.

Bill