Learn something new every day.

[DickWells]

:(I noticed a section of floppy roof membrane on our 04 Keystone Montana Mountaineer a while back. It's up under the edge of the radius about 8" in from the edge, where the radiused cladding overlaps and fastens to the roof cladding under the membrane. You'd have to be here. Anyway, the screws have loosened under the membrane and you can feel the loose cladding edge underneath, as well as the screw heads.
Called Keystone this morning. Up-shot? You're on your own! The membrane carries it's own warrantee, but mine is OK. The problem is underneath. Oh, I can fix it allright, but I'd like to think that Keystone would have enough pride to want to see some customer satisfaction. We love our trailer--the floor plan is the best for us that we've seen in our 9 years of looking at trailers. Just wish that these builders would take some pains with assembly and quality.
While on the phone, I vented about the way they assembled the unit with bad wheel allignment. Five-eighths tow-out on left front! All the rest were out from 1/4 to 7/16! Again, not a Keystone problem. Their words; "We get the axle/spring units all assembled and (slap) them on the inverted frame and weld them on". Nice. So it's Dexter then, huh? Seems Dexter doesn't make sure that the caster of the beams is in the proper rotation when they weld on the spring plates. Again, nice! The allignment guy told me that 90+ % of trailers should be alligned before you make your maiden run.
Now, top this all off with the fact that our 11300 lb gross trailer has 5080 lb axles (x2=10160 lbs) with 225-75-15, load range D tires! Yeh, I know, I'm supposed to subtract the 1200 or so for tongue weight, but where's the safety margin? We had four brands of tires on the ground when we bought the thing at two years old. That's not Dexter's fault, that's on Keystone. I now have LR- E's all around and carry two brand new spares. Those tires on the road all have Smart Tire sensers in them.
Keystone's not alone. I've seen a lot of stuff like this in our 5 years of full timing. Just wanted to un-load a little, and maybe even help someone else to avoid some pit-falls.
Happy trails.
Dick Wells:)

[DmaxMaverick]

Thanks for the info, Dick.

I have a 2005 3 slide Mountaineer 5'er. It's been cherry since new in 05. Mine has 235/85/16E's on 6.2K axles from the factory (and the tires were "made in USA", no less), but my GVW is considerably higher. I watch for things, such as you found, all the time. I hate having down time on the road. Anyway, you should be able to find a dealer that will go to bat for you. If it's something they can classify as a "manufacturer's defect", they can help. At least, get a cut rate for a repair. I've had good luck with Keystone on out of warranty stuff on a previous coach, but nothing recently. You may have the best results from your original dealer. They are proud of these things, and should stand behind them. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

[d.h.]

I hava a 2008 34ft Montana Mountaineer.I know what you are saying with regards to problems.My very first day of holidays was to be spent at dealer so they could install new brakes:mad:
Upon inspect the rears were not working as someone had gone nuts on bearing buddycovering everything in grease.Dealer fixed without real issuebut.. I can,t believe they towed from Illinois or wherever to Vancouver B.C. and not do post trip at least.The front brakes were completly cracked and of no use.
I have a few warrenty issues I need to be fixed and I,m hoping it not to be a problem.
When I bought fifth wheel in Vancouver (I live on Vancouver Island-Ferry) I asked specifically if warrenty would be an issue on the island. Salesman said "not a problem take to any authorised dealer of which he said were plentyful".I wish I had recorded that conversation.Wife phoned to find out were to take and they(that same salesman)said"oh no you,ll have to bring back to Vancouver as ther are no Montana dealers on Island:mad:

I,m going to call personally and have a little chat. Good luck. PS They are a nice trailer:)

[rustyk]

You're not alone:

1. My ex wife's uncle bought a (then) brand new '94 34' Bounder (then Fleetwood's top of the line) diesel pusher; it was in the shop (and I mean undriveable) for 18 of its first 24 months.

2. A friend bought a new 39' National Tradewinds LTC. He weighed it, and with full fuel and water, he had 500 lbs. left. National finally agreed to upgrade the tires and wheels. Last year, the flex hose from the exhaust split, caught the FRP on fire, and the whole coach and toad were lost. National just shrugged its shoulders (they're Chap 11 now, and pretty much gone).

3. So he bought new 41' Beaver, and has since taken it back to the factory (nearby) three times for a balky slide, a balky awning, and a host of other stuff. It's still not fixed.

Despite their marketing hype, RV manufacturers just want the things out the door and sold.

Meanwhile, my '94 Barth has shown NO signs of any coach- or chassis-related problems (all aluminum, buck riveted, aircraft-style construction, solid wood joinery, Spartan chassis), but then its price when new was nearly 1.8X that of the uncle's six foot longer Bounder. Sadly, Barth's last coaches were '98, and had been cheapened to the typical level by then.

[DickWells]

:)Thanks for the replies. I've been a DIYer all my life, so I don't put much trust in dealers, anyway. So, I'll be doing any fix-ups alone. Just makes me ugly to see how these units are put together. Don't get me wrong, we love our Mountaineer travel trailer. Cabinets, slides, great floor plan, and many other things are good, and are the reason we bought it. It was 2 years old, btw.
Keystone's far from alone in quality shortcomings. I've walked through Airstreams and other high-line units that wouldn't bear inspection undersneath, inside the cabinets and storeage areas, etc. I dare say that the biggest share of trailers that I have checked (I look first at the stickers on the (usually) lower left front) are equiped with axles that leave little, if any, wiggle room, weight wise, and are equiped with tires that are at least one load range lighter than they should be. That's not Dexter's fault, though the allignment issue should be a joint affair with the trailer MFGer.
Oh well, I don't own anything that isn't modified, and the trailer is no exception. I'll just keep on fixing and improving till I get it so it suits me.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Dick Wells:)

[rustyk]

I agree, which is why I settled on a Barth. All aluminum construction (buck-riveted), NO particle board. I've done a lot of repairs and upgrades, but the bottom line is that it isn't falling apart faster than I can maintain it, not to mention that it rides and handles far better than the run-of-the-mill motorhomes.

[Robyn]

These RV issues spoken of here are just the tip of the iceberg me thinks. :(

Had a few smaller Rv's (trailers and campers) in my time and all were basically trash.

The best rig I have owned was the Hound that I bought and converted to RV service.

This is not a project for the faint of heart but when they are done they are soooooooooo nice.

The commercial conversions like Marathon and many others are sweet but the prices are out of reach for most folks.

I toured the Marathon Plant back when I first bought my bus to get some ideas for the conversion.

We were out in the plant looking at different coaches that were under contruction and a couple country singers were there at the time inspecting their new Rides.

After I finished the coach we used it some but being fairly young we just did not have the time to use the thing so it sat in the shop most of the time collecting dust.

When we built the new place here at the Ranch I sold it to a fellow that wanted to travel.

Ya just about have to do it yourself if you dont want issues with stuff over the long haul though.


Good luck with the coaches.

[bsldallas]

I like my Keystone, but some small problems. The ext. screws, cable/phone connection, latches and stuff like that is what makes me upset. They rusted broke ect. Overall the construction and build is good. My brothers Keystone had the seal across the top of the roof come loose (he had to fix). My unit came with small axels and 15" tires with one w/brakes. I got the axle and wheel upgrade to the 16" E tires and both axels with brakes. My dealer tested everything on the unit pulled it checked brakes flushed the freshwater tank, burnt the new off of the furnace and oven. Checked everything. It was ready to go. The PDI that my dealer does is very long. My buddy spent 65k on his and spent the first 5 days fixing and repairing his 5ther. Everything from brake lights to sinks leaking, cable didn't work and the wash machine walked out into the bedroom. Took him 3 trips to get it right. I still put mods on the RV all the time. Making something or putting something on it.

[metalmagic]

You guys are scaring me. I just bought a New Fleetwood Quantum with everything, still have not slept in it yet will be 1 year old in August. Since we bought it I have thrown out the RCA tube type TV replaced it with Sony Bravia, redid the water pump system, added a surge tank (pressure ) and now I am looking hard at the lack of a vent fan for the shower area, who dreams all this up? We plan on an extended trip in Sept-Oct so I want everything good.

[rustyk]

The biggest issue (IMHO) with fiberglas RVs is the potential for leaks. Fleetwood (along with other manufacturers) use a lot of wood framing and/or sheathing, and it's not pressure treated or even painted.

Moisture gets in, and the framing dry rots. The only solution is to climb onto the roof every few months and check for any cracks or fissures in the roof covering that could signal a leak.

At least the Quantum seems to be much better constructed than Fleetwood's other 5th-wheel lines, because they at least disclose the underlying construction.

The biggest useful advice I can give to another RV owner is that wallowing around underneath and frequently looking closely at the roof, windows and sides, is a necessity. The second biggest advice is to come to grips with the fact that any RV loves to have money spent on it :D.

[d.h.]

My new fifth wheel from Keystone is Aluminum framed.Although it is a little thinner walled than I thought it should be.My old Tahoe (Thor) was wood had a small leak that I fixed.
The next year everything started to rot.I had it repaired, but once moisture as Rusty said gets in I think its game over.I,ts a never ending chase:(

I think checking every year before startup is good practice.They just don,t seem to give the quality for the price you pay.Not just Keystone but a lot of the companies.My fifth wheel goes to a local shop on Monday for warrenty issues. I,m hoping all goes well.I think I,m better off doing repairs myself:rolleyes: we will see..

[DickWells]

Well, I'll try again. Keep losing my typed message. Hit a wrong key, and it's gone!
Just trying to talk about this same Mountaineer, which we were towing when we were involved in a crash down in southern LA last Sunday. Haven't had WiFi since.
You'll see my report on the wreck over in the Forum. No-one hurt, and I'm not at fault.
So, I'll spend some of the 7+grand on the roof and a few other mods when I get back to the Green Mountains.
It would be nice if all TTs were made like our son's Exiss horse/camper combo. But, they're not, and won't be unless you can afford the $$$$ for that kind of construction.
I modified our old Sunliner 26 footer to be a 29 footer, by adding 39 inches to the tongue, so that I could carry our Bombardier Traxter with us. Towed it all over the country. It handled much better with a long tongue.
Loved that trailer, but we love our new floor plan more.
Thanks for the come-backs, people.
Oh, for the guy who said we were scaring you with all the horror stories; don't worry, you'll do just fine. Things have a way of working out, especially once you've accumulated a bunch of experience.
Happy trails, everyone.
Dick Wells:)

[loghauler]

If anyone is having mouse trouble, make sure you check your heating duct. there is a spot where the two sections come together that they just tape up. the mice go right through that into the cabin.Had to remove water tank and insulation, peal sheet metal back from duct and fix hole in joint with sheet metal and duct tape. That polar package is also a joke, all that does is provide a highway for mice to travel through hose into cabin. It took some time but well worth the effort. I didn't even attemt to get dealer to fix it.this is on a Keystone Cougar 286 (2004).

[DmaxMaverick]

If anyone is having mouse trouble, make sure you check your heating duct. there is a spot where the two sections come together that they just tape up. the mice go right through that into the cabin.Had to remove water tank and insulation, peal sheet metal back from duct and fix hole in joint with sheet metal and duct tape. That polar package is also a joke, all that does is provide a highway for mice to travel through hose into cabin. It took some time but well worth the effort. I didn't even attemt to get dealer to fix it.this is on a Keystone Cougar 286 (2004).

Good advice, but it doesn't apply to all of them. My previous coach (95 Fleetwood Savanna) was a rodent hotel. Every year, the same thing. They got in, no matter what I did. The 2005 Mountaineer is very different. No rodents. The ductwork is all internal, and the subframe is sealed. There's no access from outside to inside, and all the pass-throughs (water drains, propane lines, etc.) are foam sealed or have tight bulkhead grommets. It has the "polar" package. I went over the exterior with a fine tooth comb, and found nowhere they can get in. So far, no problems with rodents. At the first sign they figure out how to get in, I'll be dumping it. This was a major point at the time of purchase.

[rustyk]

The house on my coach is also very well sealed. As to its ability to keep rodents out, "fuggedaboudit". They can (and will) gnaw through foam, wood, and anything softer. Although my motorhome rarely sees even two months' respite from OTR duty, in the winter, mousetraps and mouse pads (the sticky ones to trap meeces) take up residence so's the cute little furry things don't.