Aluminum Radiator fabrication

[Robyn]

Well the Hummer thing is coming along again and I am to the point that I must address the issue of cooling the little diesel Monster.

The kit radiator is way tooooooooo small to do the job. The kit radiator measures about half the Square inch frontal area of the core that a pickup/Burb factory radiator measures.

The tilt front end on the kit does not allow the addition of a larger radiator, NOT EVEN.

The real HMMWV has the engine sitting back into a doghouse with the radiator mounted in an inclined position over the top of the front of the engine.

The kit keeps the engine in the stock (GM Burb) location and was designed with a little aluminum radiator that will cool a 350 V8. The radiator mounts in a similar location to the factory GM pieces.

Many hours of lamenting over this issue has finally brought me back to the fact that more cooling area has to be added and to add insult to injury I need a place for the AC Condenser too.

I have looked at a spot under the truck but this is just too vulnerable and any radiator there would soon be fouled with dirt and most likely get damaged.

I have recently turned my gaze to the huge expanse of roof line and the idea of building a multi purpose Light bar, radiator and condenser support.

16" high tubular bar with a shroud over it and electric fan/fans on the back. The Condenser up front and a 12" high by 34 inch long radiator behind that.

This brings me to the source for the custom radiator.
I have contacted a few of the custom radiator outfits and the prices range from $500 to $1200 to build what I desire.


Hmmmmm I have a great tig welder and the knowledge to use it.

The local shop I contacted told me they would take a standard Burb diesel core/Radiator and remove the plastic tanks and then saw it down to the required 12" high and then fab up a set of aluminum tanks and weld on with the needed hose bibs ect.

Hmmmm I just happen to have a lovely diesel Burb radiator that lost an upper hose bib (broke off)

I have removed the plastic tanks and cleaned things all up.

This weekend one of our gracious members who lives close by has told me that we can use the band saw at his workplace to cut the core down.

NOW if we have any radiator folks here that have done this I could use any pointers that you might have to offer.

I have all the crimp fingers cut off of the core now and the headers are in nice shape as well as the tubes.

This radiator is not one that has epoxy in it.
This unit seems to be one that was all oven "brazed" as they call it.

My next step after cutting the core to height is to prepare some cardboard patterns for making the tanks.

Any help here would be way kewl :D:D

Thanks guys

Robyn

[DmaxMaverick]

Food for thought...

There's no law that says the radiator has to be "square", or even in one piece. It doesn't have to be in the grill, either. If you can get air to it, the operation is simple. If you are limited by the surface area exposure, do you have room to use a deeper core? A double/triple core? As long as you don't have airflow issues, they work well.

[Robyn]

Been through the calcs many times Maverick.
Unfortunately the little fellow that came with the Kit is just about the max that will fit in the "grill area" and still allow tha factory fan and such with a shroud.

I will be the first to state that the folks that desigjned the kit really fell down in the mud in a few places on the design.

They used a civy H1 as there model and then designed the kit body and components to work around the GM pickup and or Burb frame and drive train.

The design never got revised much and then the company sold the kit and the rights to build and sell it to another outfit.

I had numerous conversations with the fellow I got the kit from and made a lot of revisions in the assembly manual as I read through it and started the build.
Unfortunately the design was never changed and I understand that things have been sold again.

SOOOOOOOOo the issues will have to be resolved one at a time as I proceed in the build.

Most of the issues are little trivial things that a welder and a torch will fix.
Unfortunately the cooling issue and the room available for a good sized radiator is not easily solved.

IF the hood assembly was redesigned much of the issue could be solved.
I dont want to cut the hood all up and basically rebuild it to do this though.

The roof mount is probably going to be the solution to this issue.

Best

Robyn

[bl78ljb]

Robin,
Not to question you as you are a much better fabricator than anyone else here, but why not slide the engine back a bit and create a "dog house" and have plenty of room for your engine? I would think that working with relatively straight steel and fabbing a dog house would be easier? When thinking about your project I thought about one that I saw on television a few years back on the show Xtreme 4x4 on speed where they basically did what you are attempting only they used a twin turbo d-max in a mid 80's burb with a hummer type conversion kit. Some of the episodes are available here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ICZC5S/ref=atv_dp_season_select

[Robyn]

Thanks for the input

The issue that comes up with placing the engine back is many fold.
The handling characterisitcs of the truck change drastically when the engine is moved rearward in these.

The other issue is the amount of extra work required to do this plus after its done then the very easy access to the engine is then limited by the dog house and the fact that the interior must also be redesigned.

Now we move under the rig and the frame must be modified along with the front and rear engine mounts. The location of the tranny and T case shifters will need to be all moved.

The front and rear drive shafts need to be changed so they will fit. Front needs to be longer and rear shortened.

Had this been planned from the git go it might have been a plan but to do it now is just too much work.

The addition of the roof mounted assembly to house the extra radiator and the condenser is a simple add on that wont take all that long to do.

My main question about the radiator was if anyone here had done any fab work on an aluminum one as far as building and retanking.

I saw the show you spoke of on Exteme 4x4.
That was an Urban Gorilla kit.
I almost bought one of those but opted for the Badlands.
I am very happy with my kit but I think the UG is possibly a better thought through design.

The Badlands Kit is OK but if you are not a veteran fab person with tons of expertise in many areas this one can bog you down big time.

The instruction manual left out several things that really needed to be covered in great detail.
Nothing on the wiper motor and the assembly. Nothing at all on the park brake actuator. Nothing on the tail gate lift hatch assembly.

The body mounting instructions were so so.

To sum up the assembly manual would be to say it SUCKED.

There needed to be a complete bill of materials with an individual sketch of each part.

All bolts needed to be listed as far as where they went.( The stuff came in a giant box with all the fasteners in plastic bags with little more than a number and size)

I have helped out on a couple of Cobra Kit builds and these came with complete blue prints, a bill of materials and explanations of the little crap that was tough to show on the prints in great detail.

This kit will come along fine, its just basically if you dont like it or if it seems hokey you just design something else and make it work.

I have already redesigned the fuel tank (tossed the plastic one and made a steel one)
The original concept removed way too many cross memebers from the fame and replaced heavy riveted in pieces with little flimsy bolted things that just did not even measure up to what was needed.

The fuel tank was a plastic 25 gallon unit that was set into a light weight tube steel frame that replaced all the rear crossmembers. ( the frame is shortened 18" during initial prep so the back one is gone) The member over the axle was removed to allow their tank to fit.

This whole design left basically the springs and axle to hold the frame rails apart. :eek::eek:

I dont think so.

I left the member over the axle intact and fabbed a new rear unit that bolted on solid.
My fuel tank is a 35 gallon unit made from 3/16" steel plate and fits up nicely behind the axle with its lower edge above the bottm of the axle tube.

This sucker is tough enough that it can handle a hit from a rock and not hurt it much.

The issues go on and on and on and on.
All things are workable but just require thought and tools to fix.

So far this thing has put all my equipment into use. Torch, Welder, Lathe, Mill, and a rollaway full of hand tools.

The amount of scratch paper and doodles have filled the waste basket many times and the project is not done yet.

Oh and the wiring and dash setup along with the Heat AC stuff was an absolute nightmare.

The original HVAC from the donor was to be used along with most of the vehicle wiring harness.

OMG
I was not going to use a bunch of wiring from an 82 rig along with an HVAC system thats most likely ready to give up too.

The original concept was to use as much materials from the donor rig as was possible to make the kit simple. SIMPLE Hmmmmm well they missed the boat there BIG TIME.

My idea is to end up with a rig that uses as much off the shelf (Buy it at NAPA) technology as possible.
Keep it simple to fix when out in the brush and simple to diagnose any problem that could arise later.

Mechanically injected 6.5 N/A (Maybe turbo later)
1986 glow plug controls
TH 400 tranny
Simple you twistem hubs for the 4x4 with no servos or modules to go south.

OH and lets not forget NO SES LIGHT TO COME ON :D and scare the hell out of you in the middle of nowhere.. HAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I am going to realize the dream but its just taking me a lot longer than I had originally planned due to work and funds being available to do what I want.

This all said, building a kit car rig is not about the destination its about the journey.. :)

If everyone could do it the streets would be choked with the bloody things.

To my Knowledge I have never seen a Kit Hummer on the streets.

best to all and keep the comments coming

Robyn

[Beedee]

OH and lets not forget NO SES LIGHT TO COME ON and scare the hell out of you in the middle of nowhere.. HAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Robyn: You are my kinda girl. :)
We put these fancy new "Computer controlled" engines into off hiway logging trucks. Tons of power, but when you are in the middle of nowhere and the truck dies and all you get are some little blinking lights to diagnose the problem, it just ain't no fun at all.
Love your posts, hope the little beast roars to life soon

[Robyn]

Well
The roaring is a long way off still but its at least progressing forward.

Just got back from a friends shop where wqe sawed the add on radiator down to size.
Worked like a charm, just centered the blade right up the middle of a tube set and buzzed the sucker in half.
I now have my 12 X 34 inch core to build on..

Just gonna take some cleaning of all the area to be welded to and then fabricate the tanks.

Thanks for the comments. :D

Robyn