Drop NV4500 / NP241 Together or Separate?

[trbankii]

Getting ready to remove the transmission and transfer case to R&R the clutch assembly in my truck.

Laying under the truck I'm debating the pros and cons of lowering the whole assembly versus removing the t-case and then lowering the transmission. I'm not as much concerned about the weight as whether I can get the total assembly to balance or if it is going to be more likely to try to tip on me while removing.

Another thought has been to just unbolt the crossmember at the framerails, tilt the transmission down in front enough to get the shift tower to clear, and then just slide it back far enough to get at the clutch without even fully dropping the assembly.

Any thoughts or experiences?

[a5150nut]

That NV4500 is right heavy on its own. I've always separated the two and pulled them separate. It's enough to get the trans to line up by it's self. If yo use a floor jack on the trans, use something (rubber belting) between the jack and trans so it don't slip off.

[93_Burrito]

Hey trbankii,

I've got a transmission jack if you don't... lifts higher than a floor jack and makes the job a little bit easier. You could borrow it...


Andy

[Hubert]

I too seperated it. The transfer case can be manhandled w/o jacking it perfect (just use the jack platform to hold it up). I used an adapter but a big plate could work too if it lifts high enough to hold it up. But the transmission is too much for me. The shape and weight distribution combined still seems like a really big problem for even a transmission jack. It was just easier to push it around and put wooden triangles and blocks where ever to hold it in a good orientation on both. But with extra care and attention to balance so it doesn't fall on you. Really not the kind of work one should do alone but you have to do what you have to do.

Seperating them allows you to jack up the trans independantly so you can take out the crossmember and rear mount more easily. But make a good selection of jack placement the crossmemember is tight to get out with the torsion bars interference.

Support the bottom of the engine so it doesn't sag too much and stress your motor mounts.

I think I remember I took the shift tower off and it gives a little more room (stuff some shop towels in top to keep stuff out before you start lowering it and dirt falls in). Also remember the reverse lights switch wiring both takeing it out and more importantly putting back it. Once its all back in I don't think you can get to it.

[Hubert]

iirc I think the NV4500 is about 200 lbs by itself. The transfercase was light in comparison on weight maybe 75-100 lbs???.

[trbankii]

General consensus is running for separating - just wasn't sure if I was making more work for myself or less...

Nice rainy day here today - perfect for a day in the shop.


I've got a transmission jack if you don't... lifts higher than a floor jack and makes the job a little bit easier. You could borrow it...

Andy, thanks for the offer but I have one myself. Thomas

[a5150nut]

I've used floor jack and a transmission jack. Had the best luck with the floor jack. And the NV4500 weighs in at 260 dry. But if it rain today your probably already done!

[Turbo Al]

I go with the nv4500 by itself and when I install it I use a trans jack to position it then use two of those big tie down straps (4 inch wide) with the rachet tighteners. I open both doors loop them through the cab then under the trans and it is great. You can raise/lower the front or back of trans to line it up perfectly and it also will "swing" a bit to get the bolts started. It is easier with two people but have no problems by myself.

Al

[trbankii]

I've got things down to the bellhousing - and have all the bolts/nuts off for that - except for the last one.

There is a fastener just above the starter that doesn't have a actual head on it - sort of looks like a tapered cone? From the top middle of the bellhousing, there are two nut/studs on the passenger side, then this fastener, then two that are pretty much on either side of the starter.

Am I correct that I don't really need to unbolt the starter from the engine block? And is this "fastener" just a locating stud that doesn't need to be removed? Or is there a trick? Or did the PO use some crazy fastener that he had on hand?

I have to admit that this project has been much more of a pain than I was expecting...

[DmaxMaverick]

That is a locating stud. No need to mess with it. The bell housing should come off with the starter in place. It should pull straight back. If you get all the bolts out, and it's not moving, the bell housing is cocked on the studs. You'll need to align the bell housing and engine to relieve the bind. Make sure the front of the engine is supported. You don't want the engine mounts to support all that torquing weight. If they let go (or are already weak), it'll push the fan into the radiator, among other problems. You can support the engine with either a jack or stand from underneath, or hang it from above with an engine hoist or other suitable means. Don't support the engine on the balancer or pulley. It can/will damage them. I use a short 2x4 between the balancer and pan, rested on a jack or jack stand. A jack is better, so you can raise/lower it for alignment.

[trbankii]

DMax - Many thanks!

I didn't want to get too "persuasive" on things if it was actually holding things together.

And yes, I have a jackstand supporting the back of the engine since the point of removing the crossmember under the transmission. I had this mental image of the engine tipping and ripping through the radiator... ;)

[DmaxMaverick]

Yes. Support the rear of the engine (had wrong engine on the brain). Once the tranny is supported, they should be aligned and the tranny should move straight back. If it's not moving, something is binding. Could also be the pilot bearing or clutch spline, or something didn't get disconnected.

[trbankii]

Yep, the transmission is already off. I'm just removing the bellhousing at this point.

Turns out that I was missing the three "extra" nuts on the studs with the clips holding the electrical lines and clutch hydraulic line and such... Nut, clip, second nut... Once I got those off it still took a bit of persuasion to break things loose.

[Hubert]

Also, the fuel line bracket near top left has the bolt with "2nd bolt and nut". Seems there were several of those. Both sides of the engine have the dowel pin locators IIRC and it took a little bump to get it dislodged. I think the dowels are locators and the bolts are there for clamping and fairly standard for most engines. The thing about using 2 dowels and tight fit is that unless matched perfectly they typcially bind some.

I'll have to have to look at some pics of bellhousing to count the number of bolts my memory is fuzzy. Triple count to make sure you have them all I think I forgot one at first too and was wondering why it did not come off.

Do you have the dust cover off the front of the bellhousing? Its going to interfere too I think. I think I took my starter off but was doing other work too so I can't remember if it has to come off (I was thinking it did have to come off)???

[Hubert]

I looked at this pic

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=30041

and count (6) bellhousing bolts and (2) dowels. Its real fuzzy but I think there were (3) or (4) ??? of those double bolts.

[Hubert]

Memory returns slowly I think you do have to take off starter to get the dust cover off as the starter bindex window is a hole. But someone else help me out. You might can just undo the bolts and leave the dust cover in place. But again I was doing other work too (taking off oil pan and rear main seal etc) and took it all off.